We all love an EV deal.
I was looking at a few EV's and noticed the driveaway price for this seemed low. Realised they have a $4000 discount at the moment.
ACT: $36,638 Driveaway
NSW: $37,044 Driveaway
QLD: $37,550 Driveaway
SA: $38,230 Driveaway
TAS: $38,247 Driveaway
VIC: $38,583 Driveaway
WA: $39,003 Driveaway
Haha I am rewatching breaking bad and the car looks a lot like what Skyler buys Walter Jr for his bday and he decides not to drive it lmao
Keep telling yourself and you’ll keep believing it.
neanderthals still roaming the earth
@doobes: Lol the carbon emissions from the mining of the lithium, transportation, then building a new car far far exceeds me simply burning some fossil fuel in an old one.
@Homerlovesbeer: because for some reason your simple brain thinks this post is meant to convince people to ditch their old cars and buy a new EV, and yet no one nowhere is suggesting anyone abandon their old working car to buy a new one.
or were you just trying to gloat about a 4.8L V8? either way, neanderthal.
the problem is it's not a good car
Thats what the coachman said when the automobile arrived and the horses agree to reduce farting.
Didn’t exploit Congolese workers to mine the cobalt either , like the EV industry does
yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Why the yawn? Why is 3500+ Africans dying in just Lithium and CObalt mines yawn worthy? Are their deaths and their conditions boring to you so you can drive your EV to "Save the planet?". Honestly, what an utterly abhorrent and flippant comment.
@mxlmxlmxl: You may be shocked to learn that EVs are not the only use of mined cobalt and lithium. Cobalt is used as a catalyst in oil refining, lithium in many consumer products. Not defending poor labour practices but blaming EVs for them is a stretch.
@mxlmxlmxl: Yawn…. 3,500 is nothing.
600,000 died from Malaria last year. Concentrate your wokeness on something worthy.
@doobes: No agenda. Facts. Lithium mining without EVs and massive battery farms to support power girds to support EVs contributed a 9000% increase in lithium over the last 10 years. So while it isn't "All" it is now over 85%. The rest is EVERYTHING else… Phones, scooters, duracells et all.
Also, you're lack of any empathy to have people die for you benefit speaks volumes about who you are as a human.
Here, this is something a (profanity) normal person would respond "I agree, that many deaths is bad, i'm hopeful all this new tech solves that.".
But there deaths and someone bringing that reality to the surface is boring to you instead. Vile.
And WTF has malaria got to do with it. Nothing I consume for status and grandstanding increases malaria. Nothing I can do or don't do alters that.
Not buying an EV would. Only buying an EV using newer revised tech would. Buying other options would Keeping EVs for more than the current 3.2 years Australians do would help…
Imagine being so dumb and fighting for "green" options of EV cars then changing them more frequently than other cars and also being so flippant to say "in the future these people won't die".
I'm not woke. I value life today over lives in the future. Killing people now in the hopes to change the climate is just ludicrous. But then most people campaigning for that live in picture perfect lives and care nothign for the countries and people dying for them
“The Standard Range model gets a lithium-iron phosphate (LFP) battery, which does without nickel and cobalt.”
Most manufacturers are moving to LFP cells so cobalt extraction issues should be a thing of the past soon enough.
Except Lithium is by far the most environmentally destructive.
@Homerlovesbeer: Good thing byd are building a $B sodium battery plant in USA.
No lithium, initially Batts will be good for compact EVs and scooters ect.
You can calculate this stuff you know. Your emissions are nearly 10 tonnes a year, assuming you drive around 20k km. That doesn't even count the emissions from extracting, refining, and transporting petrol over the ocean to you. The emissions from building pretty much any EV will be less than 10 tonnes, if it's charged off solar panels you'll surpass a new EV with your current emissions within 2 years. Then there's all the years after that.
i thought petrol was star trek transported into fuel tanks?
That's absolute bogus figures there. Volvo estimates the emissions from building an electric vehicle will take at least 4-8 years longer than those of an equivalent fossil fuel vehicle to break even depending on the amount of km driven per year.
Also it's estimated that a fossil fuel can will burn around 27 tonnes per 100,000km, not 10 tonnes a year as you claim.
Anyway, the whole "greenwashing" electric vehicle thing isn't as good for the environment as portrayed and more politicians and businesses are questioning whether they really are better for the environment.
I'll leave it there.
It depends on the fuel efficiency of your car and how much you drive. I'll walk you through it. You said 20l/100km, which is quite poor efficiency. 1l of petrol releases 2.31kg of Co2 upon combustion (you can look this up if you want). 20l * 2.31kg = 46.2 kg Co2 driving 100km. 46.2 * 200 (to get 20k km) = 9.24 tonnes Co2.
I don't know about whatever Volvo says but it's easy to look up tables of lifecycle emissions for different cars. Here's a graph from NRMA https://www.mynrma.com.au/-/media/lifecycle-car-emissions-me…
@unibol: https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/resources/why-does-burn…
Adding this before anyone asks how 1 lt of petrol (which weighs about 740gm) produces 'more weight' of CO2
You had a sound argument until the "charged off of solar".
That's basically impossible/never can be done in Australia. With the Average EV car having 70-80kw batteries, and newer ones like the Dolphin and EV6/9 having >80kw, and the average home solar being 6.6kw, but even a top tier high performing 11kw solar array is not generating an average over 55kw year round. Maybe a bit higher in the north and much less in southern states/tas.
But, to accept any ludicrous arguments of "I would charge it every day". Two things. Thats terrible for most car batteries. And also 85% of EV cars are doing >300km a week, meaning they're not in homes in the day and charge at night.
The rest is fine in your argument, but some of these super thin statements that aren't possible water down everyone's ability to make fair and balanced decisions.
Financially, an EV has tipped and for the majority of owners, is no longer cheaper to own. In fact, depending on the model, some are downright awful financial decisions. The issue is people do not compare all factors for accurate periods of their proposed ownership.
Top line: EV car insurance is now 62% more expensive with a like for like car. Meaning similar cost and similar power etc. And goes up to >200% more pending the model. Fore example, latest fire and safety issues with BYDs has resulted in premiums taking a bigger hike than Tesla's
Petrol Vs power, EV wins. But also its now closing when you take into account factors. E.g. If you BUY a solar system to power your car. The fact solar simply cant charge a car unless you trickle charge every day between 11-3. If you're cars home daily in those hours you probably arent driving much and then it was worse of a financial decision.
Resale on EVs is far worse to ICE on average year for year. ANd it only gets worse with age. The Model 3 tesla has suffered greatly due to market conditions, aggressive price cuts and reduced desirability of people hating Elon. It hit 52% depreciation in December for a 3 year old Model 3. That means if you bought a Model 3 in Aus in 2019 for the $77k, you lost $40k! For comparison, an equivalent ICE (Audi, BMW, VW is more like 23-31%).
Between the increased cost of an EV compared to ICE. The increased insurance, and depreciation, its terrible. And Tesla is one of the better. BYD and other cheaper brands are worse. And unlike ICE that taper in age, EV only gets worse. Because buyers worry about battery replacement at 8-12 years. And that's not including the actual cost to replace them.
All a long winded way of saying buy an EV to save carbon, or because you like them, or you prefer the drive/feel etc. Heck, basically any reason. But do not buy thinking they're cheaper to own/run because they're not.
Well reasoned points. I rather suspect many buyers are greenwashing and can afford to ignore the financial costs.
@gadget: Which, honestly, is everyone's personal choice and zero shade on it. Heck, plenty of people justify things I could never fathom to spend money on! haha. "Oh that $3k handbag is so pretty, I need it" comes to mind. Who's to argue value and someone else's money/reasoning.
But, I have a few friends that bought EV's being sold it was so much cheaper, and initial simple math was "I paid $110 to fill my old car I now pay $18 in electricity".
Well, yeah, but…. haha. I've seen some cars do well and EVs stack up well. But weirdly it's only getting worse for EVs, not better at the moment and it should be the other way around. It should be getting cheaper.
It’s very rare to need to charge from zero to 100% every day. Most people will just be topping up a few percentage every day and it won’t matter if it takes a few days to get to full.
And new lfp batteries can be charged every day without affecting lifespan.
@choofa: As I said, new tech will help. But that isn't this car nor EVs today. People buying today will be left in the dark, in ownership costs, issues and resell. Like all early adopting techs.
Also, the charging info isn't quite right. Tesla and VW both shared data saying most owners range charges between 15% to get to 80-90%. Meaning charging 50-70Kw of power in a charge. But I agree, you could "
top up" daily but again, most people owning EVs have jobs and are of a certain socio economic range due to affordability, resulting in often having a working job. Which then means on average most are not charged during the day.
But the pluses for some is some tariffs and states have great overnight power rates. Like 7c per KW at night to charge EVs. Some of us have a single rate of 22-25c, and some like in SA get shafted with shocking 45c+ so where and who matters a lot. Hence advocate do your own complete maths on ownership but include resale and factor total time to own.
I’m hoping you’ve seen the state and federal rebates + FBT concessions on novated leases?
First impression of your comments I feel you make a lot of reasonable points and I get the impression you have some knowledge in this area.
However, I feel I’d be a fool just to accept all your statements without some evidence/refernces to back them up. I’m not saying I doubt them but ca you give any solid refernces to some of the numbers you quote?
I have seen comments on Tesla FB pages that definitely challenge some of your claims. (Heavily biased fanboy pages though😀 and many personal anecdotes - lowest form of evidence yes)
Thx
@Captain Hindsight: Appreciate the words. And everyone will have a bias. Mine sits EVs of today being basically junk early adopters still. I still think were a decade away from good EVs.
Think when LCDs came out. Compared to Plasma (essentially 2nd gen) were awful. Then LED LCDs and then micro, dimming, OLED etc. We're still in LCD stage, with some nice things added.
New battery tech will change things. 100% recyclable batteries will change things. Faster charging. Charging whilst driving (in road, solar or whatever awesome tech).
Because of my bias, I am for EVs of the future, anti EVs of today. Not because I hate EVs, because like most early tech, the buyers get shafted. Dates fast. Tech moves fast. Then as it matures it slows as does depreciation.
I've seen people bamboozled into EVs and then you do the maths and it siomply doesn't stack up. I honestly suggest everyone do their research but don't be blinded by either end of the bias. Take the cost of the car you're buying, compare that to a like for like ICE car. Fuel costs Vs Electricity. Factor in charging and where/when REALISTICALLY. The people saying I charge on solar are simply not driving the car then as no solar in a normal home is pumping out 80kw of power. And if it is, you're now not using any power you had planned for the home to use of solar. Compare servicing. Compare resell as best you can. Then see your delta
Model 3 and Model Y are not good investments. BYD, GWM are terrible investments. Model S and X actually work in favour. Resell is hard to measure in newer cars but its seeming like some VWs and the new Volvo will scale well for EV costs.
But - one area of EV ownership outside of control is insurance and seeing whats happening in Europe, UK and US and starting to happen here is alarming. Essentially risk and costs outweigh ICE cars. Look at the new Hyundai suggesting $60k battery replacement cost after they got rear ended at 45-50kmh. Insurance aren't paying that and the $90k car written off. In an ICE it was thousands of dollars of cosmetic damage.
So EV needs the advancements (cheaper replaceable batteries, faster charging, safer charging installations, better crash protection) to combat the current issues.
But, EVs are a shit tonne of fun to drive/own, I love the space and tech more than ICE cars. But they're not there. You're not buying one today to save money thats for sure.
@mxlmxlmxl: Thanks for your considered reply. I'm a bit of a fence sitter, but also (full disclosure) own a Model Y. Sometimes I love and sometime I hate it - so definitely not one of these blinkered Tesla lovers. For me, I test drove one and just loved the drive, nothing more really.
What I am really interested in is where is the source of all these stats which I get the impression from your post are facts. The cynic in me always doubts stats thrown out on the web etc without any proof - probably a good thing I guess.
eg even just this one -'the Model 3 tesla has suffered greatly due to market conditions, aggressive price cuts and reduced desirability of people hating Elon. It hit 52% depreciation in December for a 3 year old Model 3. That means if you bought a Model 3 in Aus in 2019 for the $77k, you lost $40k! For comparison, an equivalent ICE (Audi, BMW, VW is more like 23-31%)" I heard the almost the opposite of this from Toby Hagon (car guy) the other day saying Teslas seem to be holding value.
You don't owe me any answer but would appreciate it. thx again
@mxlmxlmxl: I haven't fact check this but saw this comment just now on social -
Talking depreciation.
The cheapest Model 3 on Carsales is 40k. It’s about 4 years old. That same car was around 60k new.
Compare this to a BMW 1 series of the same year (2019) and roughly the same price new. Cheapest on Carsales is 25k.
I think a good response to anyone claiming Teslas depreciate quickly is to ask to see a cheap one. If Tesla depreciation was 50% over 3 years then we should be seeing Model 3’s in the 25-30k range by now.
@Captain Hindsight: The Model 3's fluctuate a little but were hitting $35k to $40k with an average sale price of $72k in 2019 inc on roads across all states at the time. They have had constant price drops which has lead to that a little. We're behind global results as availability has been as long and supplies slower. In US its worse due to higher supply. But its a fair point and worth an adjustment if the trend of a better resale continues.
Also, a BMW 1 series is a terrible comparison car. I can pick the odd one off shit well known issued car to compare. All moy replies state "averages" as I have zero interest in one offs. I could do the same and show a Subaru Forester (one of the best resale) and others like it.
My answers always the same, all my posts are to highlight that it isn't as basic as "Oh look I save $80 per fill up for the same KMs EVs rule go me" posts you see here (like below this haha)
Nonsense.
Ive saved around 3k per year in wnergy costs by charging off solar for the last 5 years or so Ive owned EVs. It has easily paid for our solar and now on way to paying for our home battery.
You've got incorrect assumptions about charging habits. Average daily commute in Australia is around 30-40km per day, which for most EVs is around 10% of battery capacity. If I can't charge during the day for 60-90min, then I charge at lower tariff overnight.
Re purpose of this site, Ozbargainers will likely be interested in exploring the savings from all electric households vs households that rely on some sort of petrol or gas-based energy. The savings can be considerable.
Moving off gas heating (we in Canberra) saves around 2k per year.
@DrHoon: Nope. You're wrong on the charging information. Thats been shared a number of times in published articles from various manufacturers and is also available to states and federal planners around EV use. Same as ICE cars once they moved to better onboards.
Your maths is wrong and short sighted and not comparing total costs, but I've learned its pointless trying to show someone's beliefs. You either haven't read and/or understood my posts. If you're happy that's great. YOu also say you'll charge for less overnight…. As all my posts say, I am talking averages for all. Not every state, location or tarif allows for that. So, someone paying 45c per KW in SA and 4c feed in is not seeing the same as someone in NSW paying 28c day, 7c feed in and 7c night rates.
It "may" work out for some. On average it doesn't for most taking into account all factors.
To your point, saying this is OzBargain. Then I assure you your logic doesn't stand up as I can find an ICE car that over 20 years would be cheaper than your EV in getting me from A-B at a bargain.
This isn't about cost saving. EVs are about carbon and environment for most or driving preference, love of tech, early adopter joy or other reasons. I've written actual posts showing breakdowns and reasonings
Good lord Homerlovesbeer, so much irreversible damage your 4.8L V8 has done for the past 20 years XD
And the damage caused by flying to Europe/USA/Asia for your annual holidays…….?
Annual oversea holiday? Haven't had one since before COVID-19 outbreak.
Does china deliberately design cars to look bad?
AI could probably do a better job designing a car
Does this have seat belts that don't work like that MG5 too?
Great. Was just looking for a second EV. Will watch some reviews.
Ora ora ora?
I much prefer Ara ara ara
Looks may polarise, quality maybe unknown but the price will beat every other vehicle out of the current market for anyone looking at EVs.. this is going to be a very interesting market in the next 2 years with the Chinese manufacturers having a massive lead on everyone else barring Tesla ..Thanks OP.. not buying one but at that price.. sure looks tempting
FYI, the car was subject to a recall because it could electrocute you, if you removed the plug charging at a fast charger. https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/2023-gwm-ora-recalled
Neg me all you want but tell you what a manual v8 or v10 id going to be a classic soon… and I do not have kids..I do not need to turn off lights on earth day or buy EVs.. the warming is caused by too many humans …so stop making more if you are so concerned ..EVs will not matter given the rate at which human population is increasing ..just stop making more humans
Good on you for saving the planet by not wasting energy on thinking
"Neg me all you want"
OK.
You do know ICE vehicles also combust… if anything its more common, hot engine bay, electricity and petrol, extremely non combustible combination…
It just doesnt get documented as much.
But hey you've already made your mind up i feel.
Classic.
GWM also had a hit on their hands with the Tank 300 where the back tyres lifted off the road when it braked.
Absolute pearlers.
Is there any Australian EV in the market? Don't think Holden make any.
have you avoided the news over the last 7 years?
Mostly. But could not avoid ads.
Holden is going to release a new car around the same time Elvis releases his next (non-AI) album.
So you don't know there's no such thing as Holden anymore? Seriously? Or are you taking the piss?
Holden:
After announcing the closure plans in 2013, the final car came off the line in Adelaide on October 20, 2017.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-09/holden-closed-five-ye…
Australia hasnt had a car manufacturing industry in at least a decade
How on earth did they sign off on that design. If it was a boring square black box, it'd actually be compelling with those specs; but not with that embarrassing fake mini cooper design
The designer was aiming for the 'Porsche I bought off of wish.com' look.
$20K and you got yourself a deal.
I just checked with the CEO. He says Done! Doing it just for you though, because you commented here on a random post.
You'd have to have rocks in your head.
Before anyone tries to tar me with the same brush as the ANTI-EV knuckle daggers, don't bother - I own an EV.
this is not a bad car at all as i did a test drive the other day, really fast off the block also. surprised indeed. I would even goes to say it sits between a hot hatch and a warm hatch
$3500 rebate for WA, but is this part of it?
If it is then you be looking at $35500 DA. Not bad at all
good review here also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Galo6sIFU
Good review, ta
$99 capped price servicing per year for the next 5 years. Not bad compared to ICE servicing.
Not sure how much it will cost after that. They probably gonna sting you with battery replacement
A lot of cars give free servicing for X years
$99 - isn't that about the average for an EV?
I think used Tesla 3 would be a better option
As long as the battery isn't too old. You don't want an older used battery. Car will be worth nothing down the track
This here is the issue with every EV. THe fact the average persons thoughts are" I wouldn't buy an older EV" is valid and no arguments on that, its the typical reaction.
Based on some aspects of truth and some scare mongering, but reality is, EV cars suffer a major lifespan issue. Take this GWM. It will lose 50% of its value in 3 years (Poor brand and typical EV deperication). In 7-8 years, its junk. It'll be thrown out. The car cost will be nothing because a buyer will need to drop $8k-$15k on new batteries. Lets go best case at $8k. The car won't be worth $5k at this point. Who wants to spend $8k on a $5k car.
Have you looked at 7-8 year old Tesla’s? They are very much not junk.
People have that perception because people like you comment with no backing information.
@Larsson: Not sure I understand? I never talked about a 7-8 Tesla, butm lets have a look at one. Resale on a 8year old Tesla here means mostly Model S or X. Both have the better of EV car depreciations, but average around 63% for 2023. Lets pick an S as more common/available.
Batteries in them tend to remain above 80% charge around 8 years. Most people think it stops working, rather than just reduinging. Now in most models that means losing 100km range.
I agree, grabbing a Model S for around $45k is a decent buy considering Tesla's battery replacement is around $17k for them. I personally would live with maybe 400-450km range.
But the reality for many other cars isn't the same. Some seeing over 70% depreciation. It excels as well closer to ten year mark due to actual batter decline, stigma, quality of the batteries compared to say, Tesla's.
And the issue is, if you buy an EV to be "green" and people are throwing them away at 10-12 year mark, its terrible and destroys the benefits planned for the world. Heck, CSIRO own study showed across all EV,s the carbon payback to be neutral to an ICE is 9-13 years. Its terrifying then if people are churning them and then the second hand market shatters as no one will buy.
Personally I am hoping current batteries will be replaced with newer tech ones coming, cheaper and less impact minerals wise and solves this issue at scale in 3-5 years when a ot of adopters hit the 10yr mark
@mxlmxlmxl: Reports from overseas state Model S needs wheel a lot more often due to all that weight. If not done, Tyres on model S from reports overseas only last 10,000km and wear out on the inside. You can get sturdier harder compound tyres to make it last longer but to the detriment of road noise and lower grip. Tyre budget on Model S is the critical factor especially if doing 20,000km a year normal driving.
That's very very false. Look at used Nissan Leafs with 50km range, still going for 10-20k plus
In another 10 years all these 50kwhr+ EVs even with 70% battery are going to turn into very cheap solar batterys
I'd trust Tesla batteries far more than these both in lifespan and availability come time to replace.
Imaging spending $40k on this hahah
You guys forget novated leasing. If put that in the equation it will be much cheaper than any ice car of same size.
Can you explain this? As more leasing for EVs has taken a dive. Because they're suffering resale issues and battery longevity. Resulting in EVs getting punished by some providers now.
Plus, you get GST off the fuel of ICE, but most avoiding charging costs, to be absorbed by the owner. I'm sure some providers and situations work out. But i'd be keen to see math on it for something like this TBH.
What
Google it. Essentially you don't pay any GST for the car and operation cost. The car loan (principle plus interest) and insurance maintainace etc. all from you pretax money.
With Ice car because of the FBT you have to pay some of above post tax.
Except then you gotta deal with the massive scam that is the novated lease industry
True. Use self managed lease to avoid the cowboys.
Of course its cheaper. You don't own the car. Your leasing it!
This is incorrect, you can absolutely own the car at the end of the lease if you choose to.
It's cheaper because the high interest rate charged by the leasing company, costs you less than the tax saving.
Bang on Jim. The FBT concessions are insane and make these cars super attractive for a lot of people
A fully maintained associate lease is far superior to a novated lease if you have someone on a much lower (preferably zero) marginal tax rate and you can find a leasing company willing to do this, as there is not much in it for them. EV's are FBT exempt until at least 2027. Throw in stamp duty exemptions, rebates (where still available) and half price cars make this a no-brainer. Cheap EV loans are available if requiring finance, eg. NRMA/RACV. Not financial advice, DYOR.
Hardly any employer outside of government agencies offer it. Otherwise, yes.
Can you charge it over USB-C PD?
Just make sure you use the OzBargain-favourite Heymix power adapter /s
That steering wheel in the image is in the wrong side