Employment Counteroffer- Leave or Stay

Counteroffer- what would you do?

👋

Current position, employed for 8 months with employer 1. At the time of interview, we were clear on some sort of flexibility around start and finish times. All went well till around a month ago where I was approached by HR saying that flexibility thing isn’t workable anymore.

I looked up positions elsewhere and managed to get an offer with employer 2 with 15% raise and agreement on flexibility in principle (they are quite diverse and young so assume that’ll work). I accepted that offer and gave employer 1 the notice.

Now employer 1 turn back and said that flexibility issue was a mere “communication misunderstanding” and that they will work on an addendum for my current contract listing the flexibility thing as a clause with matching the 15% increase as well.

Scenarios are:
1- Accept the new role with employer 2 and move on with life or
2- Accept the counteroffer and stay with employer 1

What would you do? If the latest, in your experience (or done it yourself in the past) will that haunt you in the future?

I am pretty happy with current employer 1, apart from that miscommunication issue.

For reference, a white collar office based, mid management position, duites will be pretty much the same for both roles

🙏

UPDATE:

I think the general consensus from what I can tell is to let go and move on with the new offer, I won’t feel motivated anyways if I stayed

Now, next question is, fairwork says I can take paid annual or sick leave during the notice.

My contract says that “If you are required to work your notice period and you are unable to do so, employer1 will deduct any monies owing in lieu of the required notice period at your base rate of pay.”

This means that annual or sick leave won’t be paid which contradict FWA.

Which clause will override the other??

Comments

  • +141

    All went well till around a month ago where I was approached by HR saying that flexibility thing isn’t workable anymore.

    If someone bothered to get HR involved to talk to you about it then it was not a "misunderstanding". They wanted to control you and stuff around with your personal time.

    Go mate.

    • +13

      Excellent point, the HR bluffed about someone who was questioning my whereabouts at some point then, makes absolute sense now 🙏

    • -1

      ^ 100% this.

      The only time I’d consider a counter offer is if there was no HR involvement to begin with and the counter offer is more than what the new position is + other benefits or opportunities at current place. Else its just a business as usual

  • +104

    Taking the counter offer is usually a bad thing because they just want to keep you around long enough to find your replacement. They'll never trust you again and just don't want to deal with the hole your sudden absence would create.

    Can you get them to give you a long contract that promises healthy compensation if you're fired early? Can they find a reason to fire you early with cause, or would redundancy not cost them much? You need to consider that they will want to replace you with someone loyal and subservient.

    • +9

      So cynical! It's really hard to know the motives of management unless you know the managers/company culture. In my workplace, if a counter-offer has been made to keep someone, it's because they genuinely want the person to stay. To try to keep someone when you actually just want to get rid of them is crazy - you can't just fire someone and bring on a replacement because you want to, it has to be due to a breach of contract or a long performance management process. If they didn't want someone and the person resigned, they'd just be saying "well I'm glad he solved that problem for us!"

      • +12

        They didn't seem to genuinely want him so much as to not renege on their agreement.

        Personally, I'd be taking the first exit I could find.
        [disclaimer: I've done this many times, and it often wasn't the best decision. e.g. the jerk boss left a few months after ruining my job. In hindsight, I should have stuck that one out.]

      • This is true, sometimes counter offers are actually the best option. I ended up staying for 2 years on a counter offer, 25% payrise. Enjoyed the job, only left as I got a much better offer elsewhere and the company was in process of re-structuring so was changes coming whether I left or not.

        • +2

          A counteroffer is ONLY worth it, if it's done in good faith. That's rarely the situation in our very corporate world.

          And in cases that it is, well the onus is on the workplace to persuade you that they mean well. How do you really do that? Besides hiring great people as management and having great employee relations, it's very difficult. As I'm aging I am seeing less and less of that, as snakes seem to make it up that corporate ladder.

          Perhaps if it was a case of, this other job pays $10k extra, they shouldn't JUST match but they should really surpass it, for example, by offering $20k extra. A good business is NOT one that is running on razor margins, it is one that values their staff and makes enough leeway for rainy days too. Otherwise it's all going into the pocket of the bosses and owners.

      • when dealing with humans cynical is usually right

    • +10

      I don't personally know anyone who took a counter offer and didn't regret it.
      My wife has twice been majorly screwed over by it.

      In this case I would be leaving unless there is something in it for you (LSL??).

      Refer to Coles/ Woolies post today: price-matching isn't enough, they need to beat the offer on the table.

    • I took a counter offer 4 years ago and am still with the same company.

      Didn't really want to leave, but the other employer had offered me a significant increase. My employer not only matched it but went a little higher and I was very happy to accept. I felt valued by the fact they were prepared to do that

      The manager who arranged that for me left a while back and I made sure to thank him. My current managers probably aren't even aware of it.

      • +2

        If current managers aren't aware of it, you can probably do it again and get another big raise.

  • +39

    If HR counter offered, it seems like they know its hard to replace you yet at same time they won't forget this. I'd thank them for the opprtunity and move on.

    • I'd get employer 2 to make their own counter offer, OP hasn't burned them yet.

      • Yeah no they will probably finish it tomorrow. Probably will thank them and reject it in the new week.

      • +3

        My brother-in-law went back and forth between 2 employers several times. He genuinely wanted to be loyal but needed more hours. I'm not sure which job he ended up taking, but he increased his rate, his hours, and got a better role through his "negotiations". (He didn't negotiate at all, he just apologetically said the other company has offered a better deal and he was going to have to take it.)

        I hate that it takes a better offer to get a better deal, but that's how the world works.

    • +37

      They didn't even beat the offer, just matched it. This is not the ozbargain way.

      Walk.

      • +2

        This is the way

  • +13

    I would go with employer 2 now that your initial employer has made it clear that they don't want the flexible arrangement long term.

    • +1

      This. OP would need the flexible arrangement written into his contract, as this employer as already shown their word means nothing.

  • +36

    GO, NEVER accept a counter offer.

    However always leave on good terms, you never know you might go back at some stage in the future. Or end up working for or with one of your former colleagues.

    Plus the working world is small. Word gets around and you don’t know who your ex boss or colleagues know in other companies…

  • +1

    I accepted that offer and gave employer 1 the notice

    / thread

  • +4

    Honour the sauce source.

    Tell #1 to stick it and enjoy your new role with #2.

  • +1

    Devil you know?

  • +4

    I concur with @Foxxster. I worked in a company run by sociopaths who would both make and withhold counter-offers as though employees are pawns in a chess game. But if you feel a genuine vibe that's in your hands.

  • +8

    Personally, I'd most definitely go with:

    1- accept the new role with employer 2 and move on with life

  • +9

    So employer #1 is basically admitting they have been underpaying you until now?
    Move one and don't (ever) look backwards

  • +19

    Once you've had the 'conversation', relationships are never the same.

  • +1

    So you either burn the bridge in front of you, or the one you are currently standing on.

    • +6

      Why does any bridge need to be burnt?
      I left an employer because another company offered me substantially more, which employer 1 couldn't/ wouldn't match at the time. Now, several jobs later, they are offering substantially more than employer 2. I happen to be in a sucky job and would like to go back, so I've dropped them an email (hoping to avoid the interviewing process, but don't know if that's realistic).

      I'm not into networking or maintaining friendships from previous employment, but I don't burn bridges either.

  • +1

    Move on, end of.

  • +31

    I've taken a counteroffer before, the result was that next pay review I had "already gotten your pay rise".

    Also if HR is willing to go to an employee and kill their flexible working, that's a big deal culture-wise. Either someone you work for directly had a big problem with it and it won't stop being a problem, or they're doing a company-wide crackdown and people will get pissy all over the place. Right now it's an employee favourable job market so they'll bend rules to keep people, but I'd worry about what they'd do when the shoe is on the other foot.

    • +6

      I've taken a counteroffer before, the result was that next pay review I had "already gotten your pay rise".

      Thats why the counteroffer by your current company should always be more than the job you're leaving to.

    • Counterpoint - I also took a counteroffer.

      The next pay review cycle I got a promotion and another pay raise.

      Depends on your company and the people. Each case is unique, only OP will know if a counteroffer has any long term merit.

      That being said, the fact that HR is trying to restrict flexible working… I totally agree, huge issue culture-wise.

  • +5

    You’ve already gone nuclear by resigning—unless there’s something pressing keeping you there, just leave.

    If the counteroffer was just matching the new offer, I’d bounce. The awkwardness is already a negative over the new place, so I’d expect more than just a price match to keep you.

  • I assume that's related to WFH?

    • +1

      Yes and start & finish early

      • do you do your full work hours though? just at different times, or are you thinking you can just start at 10 am and finish at 4pm whenever you want and not make up the hours?

        • +4

          Start 7:30 or 7:40 and finish off 3. No 1hr lunch break. 38hr/wk

          • +1

            @ozbargainy: Interesting, I thought flexible hours won't work for management because of all meetings they have to attend and being the 1st point of contact for the team.

            Do you still answer questions/emails outsides those hours ?

          • +4

            @ozbargainy: As a manager, I would find that a bit difficult.

            You are required to take a min half and hour break every 5 hours in some companies ( including mine).
            Again, I don't count hours of my team, but your maths is a bit off.
            7:40AM to 3:00AM is 7:00 hrs and 20 min.
            One or two days is fine, but why would you shortchange the business?

            Anyway, never accept a counteroffer.
            Move on.

          • @ozbargainy: Legally you must be provided a lunch break btw. Whether the employee wishes to take it is another story. You cannot say no to lunch break and leave early

  • +3

    It's sad when you work for a company as an employee and they treat you like a customer of a utility company, ie, when you say you want to leave they agree to price match.

    If the price is the same, I would consider if there are any other pros / cons of one vs the other. Does one offer better career progress / education / training / job security / lateral job prospects than the other? Any employee freebies or discounts? Does one look better on your CV vs the other?

  • +6

    Now employer 1 turn back and said that flexibility issue was a mere “communication misunderstanding” and that they will work on an addendum for my current contract listing the flexibility thing as a clause with matching the 15% increase as well.

    LOL Love it how now it's a 'misunderstanding' but before that it was the flexibility that wasn't working for them. Yeah they are just back pedaling as fast as they can as they worked out they stuffed up.

    They need to do better than 'matching' the pay increase in my books, for reference. Never tell the real pay rise you get when you leave. Always pad it out a bit. You should have said you got a 25% rise, so they matched that, then rounded it to 30% to stay. Worse case if they can only match it, you still got a pay bump by staying compared to the other place.

    • +3

      Yeah can’t really comprehend how after 8 months or so they suddenly woke up and figured out “oops, we shouldn’t have agreed to that in the 1st place”

      Anyways, I’ve told them it’s 15% as per the other offer, not really keen in accepting them matching that offer considering the number of comments pointing to get the hell out of there

      • +9

        If this flexibility is an issue to them and clearly it is an issue for someone to complain to HR to get them to have a 'chat' with you and revoke it, then it will pop back up again.

        They just worked out that they screwed up. So saying what is needed in the short term to keep your bum in the seat. In the long term they will either look at replacing you with someone less flexible or revoke it again.

        There is basically blood in the water around your hours, so a fresh start might be worth it.

        • Sound advice, thx mate

  • +9

    Congratulations on the new role

  • Move on, the other employees will notice your flexible schedule and resent you

  • +2

    Go, don't look back. Also they just match employer 2, could do better with 20% increase, not 15%.

  • +8

    Dont look back.
    Let it be a lesson for 1
    You were anyways undervalued at 1
    Congrats

  • Take the new role, I wouldn't be surprised if they approached you again in the near future again with the same bs if you stay with them.

  • hi OP, is the travel for employer 2 pretty much the same distance than 1?
    If HR has approached you and denies you requested hours, I wouldn't be suprised it would happen again in the near future.

  • +1

    What would be the advantage in staying?

    • +8

      For some, it’s the devil that u know, and to a very lesser extent the fact that the flexibility wording will be in the amended contract without losing financially, but I guess that would be true short term only

      Will leave :)

    • +1

      There's a chance that employer # 2 might be a high-turnover sweatshop that hires for 10-12wks then replaces you with the next unwary sap.
      Beware of companies with a high attrition rate, or a low score on glassdoor / herwork/ comparably / firsthand.

  • +3

    I would make sure job 2 put in writing in your contract about the flexibility arrangement you seek. You seem to assume..

  • +5

    A counter-offer would be 15% above the other offer.

  • +7

    I took a counter offer and am still at the same company 3-4 years later (total 7 yrs employment), very happy with my decision. HOWEVER, based on what you've said, I agree with everyone else, move companies. 1st company sounds manipulative.

  • +3

    By taking counter offer, one would leave within 6 mths for the same reason you are thinking now. Better to move on take new challenges and grow and better offer now.

  • +3

    I was with a business for 6.5 years and gave my notice, they counter-offered a little bit. But my wife said I had to leave and start fresh. Best thing I did. Move, don't take the counteroffer.

  • Was in a similar boat few months ago. The way I looked at it was - If employer 1 didn't care for or support in first instance, then it's not worth staying for a counter offer. They clearly didn't believe I was worth 15% more.

    The Employer 2 valued me for 15% more first. Plus, if I have already accepted the offer it would be unfair for me to not deliver to what I committed to.

    It may not be as straightforward for you, there are heaps more factors to consider. Good luck with your decision.

  • +2

    For employer 2 did you get it written into your contract? I regret not doing that for my current role.
    At 8 months in a role, leave for employer 2. I would only suggest staying if you were 5-10years in a role with similar salary.

  • Run Baby Run Run Run Run Run Run……

    I have accepted 3 counter offers (2 different employers) and stayed and don't regret. But they were the exact opposite of your circumstances. Current employer had lot of freedom (start and leave whenever you feel like as long as the work was done ).

    The only thing I didn't like was my salary was below market and talking didn't help. But you've got HR involved and have been there for only 8 months, so take the counter offer and don't look back.

  • In my experience, if you make the decision to leave, there's other factors apart from whatever you identify that are leading to that choice, and you've already made the mental break from that place.

    If you stay, you will likely find it difficult to remain motivated at the right level, because although they have fixed the big problem, the other ones that led you away will still be there.

  • -2

    Hi OP,

    As far as I can tell that you are better off with sticking with employer 1. Assume you enjoy working with your current job and the new job is not much any different.
    Normally the counter-offer indicates that your line manager values you more than just the HR policy itself. This is true if you maintain the same flexibility that you are after in writing.
    At least this happened to me before. But most of the time when I resigned and I got no talk from my line manager - I just simply shook the dust off my feet and never accepted the counter offer when they did.

    In saying that, if in anyway you might change your mind then you would just talk about it politely with your line manager and maintain a good relationship.

    Just my two cents.

  • +1

    Should I Stay or Should I Go

    In all seriousness, go where your appreciated and respected, ideally with a better salary.

  • Merged from Paid/Unpaid Monies during Notice

    👋

    After the general consensus re the counteroffer here is to let go and move on with the new offer, I won’t feel motivated anyways if I stay

    Now, next question is, FWA says I can take paid annual or sick leave during the notice.

    My contract says that “If you are required to work your notice period and you are unable to do so, employer1 will deduct any monies owing in lieu of the required notice period at your base rate of pay.”

    This means that annual or sick leave won’t be paid which contradict FWA?

    Which clause will override the other? Prior experiences?

    • You cannot take sick leave if you are not sick and don't have a medical certificate.

      Annual leave yes, but normally you ask for annual leave before taking it.

      • +2

        You cannot take sick leave if you are not sick and don't have a medical certificate.

        I do that all the time…😋

      • You cannot take sick leave if you are not sick and don't have a medical certificate.

        Government workers have entered the chat.

    • +2

      Now, next question is, FWA(fairwork.gov.au) says I can take paid annual or sick leave during the notice.

      You are ignoring few words…

      "An employee can take paid annual leave during a notice period if their employer agrees to the leave."

      • +1

        What if it’s a stress leave accompanied with a medical certificate, can they ignore it?

        • +2

          As long as you have the certificate, it does not matter. The certificate will just say that you suffered from a medical condition blah blah. The employer can not do anything, otherwise they will face adverse action charges if you take the matter to FWC.

          There is a catch though: they will pay you only what has been accrued to date. Based on 8 months' employment it is about 7 days of sick leave (provided you you took nothing yet).

    • +1

      Don't over think it. Use up your sickie and leave. Or just "WFH"

    • The one where you follow on from the post referenced.

  • +2

    Now, next question is, fairwork says I can take paid annual or sick leave during the notice.

    My contract says that “If you are required to work your notice period and you are unable to do so, employer1 will deduct any monies owing in lieu of the required notice period at your base rate of pay.”

    These are saying the same thing.

    If you have a two week notice period and are leaving after one week, then Employer 1 will consider that you are on AL for the second week.

    So if you have 3 weeks of leave banked, in this case you would be paid out for two weeks with one week deducted cover the week you didn't work but were contracted to.

    Sick leave never gets paid out (with some rare industry expectations.)

  • +1

    Some of the responses are a bit weird and cynical - do you like working there? If they are true to their word and will be flexible, wouldnt you just stay and take the 15%? Personally, i would have told them it was a 20% increase and see if they matched that, but too late now. What industry are you in? Are there a lot of jobs with few people qualified with your skillset? I assume the new place requires you start a new 3-6 month probation?

    • +2

      The problem is with HR already going to him to suggest flexibility was being removed it suggests someone has noticed his flexible conditions and complained or is upset about it, probably people notice him leaving early. It is a problem I used to have to as people noticed me leaving at 3 or 4pm, what they didn't notice was me arriving at 6 or 7am, people are used to that now and they don't really care anymore as long as I get my work done.

  • +5

    Now, next question is, fairwork says I can take paid annual or sick leave during the notice.

    My contract says that “If you are required to work your notice period and you are unable to do so, employer1 will deduct any monies owing in lieu of the required notice period at your base rate of pay.”

    This means that annual or sick leave won’t be paid which contradict FWA.

    What this means is you are still eligible for paid annual leave and sick leave and within the terms of your employment you would still have access to them. i.e. if you booked and approved leave already for that period or you get sick you still get those. It DOES NOT mean that because you handed in notice that you can automatically use your available sick or annual leave to immediately leave.

    • +2

      And if you're sick you'd better make sure you have a certificate or they will try and screw you over.

      • They won’t ‘screw him over’, they’ll correctly apply the leave requirements as per any other time during his tenure..

  • Either use your annual leave or work the notice period. Do not take sick leave

    Good choice on not taking the counteroffer, if they screw you once they will screw you again

  • +2

    If you started a job with agreed conditions, and the employer later changed the working conditions without offering any compensation for that change, then they absolutely cannot be trusted, now or in the future. That is wholly unethical and unreasonable. If they switched you from WFH to office work, that's probably about a 20% cost to you in daily time, according to the proportional number of days you had to work in the office; (Millions of workers were given this and had it snatched away later, but it wasn't a contract agreement so it doesn't count here, only if you started the job with that arrangement). Never mind the worker efficiencies are often better in many positions to have people working from home, there are benefits for both employer and employee, only middle management has less reason for existence in that scenario.
    If I were you, I would ignore any offer less than 30% increase from employer 1, but probably lean toward employer 2, since the first one has demonstrated that they are untrustworthy with the bait and switch.

  • Never take the counter

  • they did the doggy thing first thought you can't do anything about it, now they turn 180 and offer you more goodie… Yeh nah.

  • +1

    Never take a counter offer, company 1 already knows you are ready to leave at a moments notice so if they ever make cuts, guess who goes first?

  • Ask for double with #1 and if reject just move on

  • +1

    You can take sick leave if you comply with the requirements in your contract to do so, the same as any other time you have been sick. Fairwork did not tell you that you could ‘just take sick leave.’

    If you are not sick, or can’t provide sufficient evidence, you rightly won’t be paid under a sick leave claim.

    Annual leave will be paid out typically. Refer to the terms of your award and Fairwork if required.

  • Leave. Nothing good ever comes out of staying back on a counter after resignation.

  • I would go with which ever is the bigger more stable company. Contract clauses can't override the law.

  • Don't take sick leave during your notice period unless you're sick.

    If you have a good working relationship with your peers/colleagues, slacking off or taking sick leave in your final days is noticed not just by your managers, but by them too. This is especially true if it means more work for them. You don't want to burn a bridge if you can avoid it. You can leave amicably, which could pay dividends in the future.

Login or Join to leave a comment