How Does an Employee Validate or Verify if a Medical Certificate Is Authentic or Effective?

plastererJazz on 03/07/2023 - 10:58
Last edited 05/07/2023 - 09:40

Greeting everyone

What's up with online medical certificate service? could they replace regular GP service given the rising gap fee?

How legit those services are and how should we choose the appropriate one?

How does an employee validate or verify if a medical certificate is authentic or effective?

Based on Fairwork, https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/sick-and-carers-leave/paid…

We also don’t consider it reasonable for an employer to contact the employee’s doctor for further information.

As far as I know, it was a piece of paper we get from the printer in the doctor's office and I doubt there is a state-wide authentication service to check these papers.

Regard

Education & Work

Comments

  • Hybroid on 03/07/2023 - 11:02
    +22

    That's a pretty standard policy. There's a degree of reasonableness to all this. So for your case scenarios, you just need to notify line manager and/or HR of the specific case and they'll support you through it.

    • RedDevil860 on 04/07/2023 - 21:22
      +3

      Not at any place iv worked in

      • cookie2 on 06/07/2023 - 22:54
        +1

        Not at most for me. Actually to be fair, not at any I've worked.

  • star-ggg on 03/07/2023 - 11:12
    +25

    GPs can reasonably back date medical certs.

    • AustriaBargain on 03/07/2023 - 15:15

      Looks like you are right:

      Furthermore, employees are sometimes incorrectly advised about this issue by their employers or others, i.e they are led to believe that getting a medical certificate relating to previous dates is not allowed. However, Australian employment law clearly states that it is allowable for employees to obtain a medical certificate after the period of sick leave in question. According to www.fairwork.gov.au : “an employee has to let their employer know that they are going to take sick or carer’s leave. This has to be done as soon as possible, and can be after the leave has started. They should also specify how long they will be off or expect to be off work”.
      An exception to this is when too much time has elapsed since the period of sick leave (for example, it was weeks or months in the past)- in this case a doctor may not be able to offer a backdated medical certificate.

      https://www.qoctor.com.au/faq-items/can-you-backdate-medical…
      https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/sick-and-carers-leave/paid…

      • star-ggg on 03/07/2023 - 15:49

        That's what I did in OP's hypotheticals where I was too incapacitated to go to GP. I'll rest till I was good enough, tell the GP what happened and they backdated the med certificate.

        • cookie2 on 03/07/2023 - 17:14
          +31

          I've had multiple doctors state they can't so it's really up to the doctor.

          • Sammy2000 on 03/07/2023 - 20:00
            +9

            @cookie2: Always been told by doctors they couldn't backdate.

            • skittlebrau on 04/07/2023 - 15:10

              @Sammy2000: That’s what I always assumed, but multiple doctors at the local clinic I go to are fine with it. Although by the sounds of it, maybe they’re not technically ‘medical certificates’ since they’re ‘letters’ but workplaces I’ve been at have never rejected them.

              If they did reject something like that, they’re probably crappy places to work at I guess? I suppose vomiting on purpose in a communal area would also get the point across.

          • dvd107 on 04/07/2023 - 21:27
            +7

            @cookie2: Common misconception.

            Backdating the certificate = dating the certificate (date of issue) prior to the date of consultation. Doctors cannot do this.

            Doctors however can, consider providing a certificate to cover a specified time period that the you were unwell before the the consultation. Generally this is as long as this illness/sick leave took place recently- i.e within the last few days. Not one week ago.

            • awdavgds on 06/07/2023 - 14:44

              @dvd107: Given sometimes doctor's aren't available when we are sick what are we to do ? Recently I tried to book an appointment with a local GP and the earliest I could get after 3 surgeries was in 2 days' time. If I was an employee needing a certificate what would I have done ? The entire system is flawed IMO. Luckily I work for myself but unluckily too as I don't get pay if I can't work. I do recall back in 1999 I needed a certificate for 2 days off and the doctor in town in Proserpine was not available to see me for 5 days!. I was not sick enough to go to A&E but was not well enough to go to work. I just told work the issue and they said fine.

    • ReaperX22 on 04/07/2023 - 13:00
      +5

      Far as I know they can't backdate, however they can mention in the cert 'Patient has advised they've had symptoms or issues since 'x' date/time' which is what I've had provided in the past..

      I've never been able to get a directly backdated cert personally.

  • wittyusername on 03/07/2023 - 11:21
    +13

    Some pharmacies can issue sick notes too I believe - probably depends on the workplace as to whether they accept it.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 03/07/2023 - 11:25

      i was going to say, wasnt there a big hoo-hah about how easy (and relatively) cheap it was to get a cert via big pharma?

    • larndis on 04/07/2023 - 15:54
      +1

      If it's signed by a pharmacist I don't believe they can just 'not accept' it.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 03/07/2023 - 11:26
    +11

    what if I injured my ankle on Sunday, or just severe migraine on Monday morning and I'm unable to attend GP to get a medical certificate?

    what did hr/ your boss say when you asked for clarification?

    • dtxau on 03/07/2023 - 11:50
      +2

      Most GPs say "do you need a doctor's cert". I need one for the two days prior as I was too injured to come in. Why is this so hard OP?

    • theHMASfriendship on 03/07/2023 - 12:12
      +32

      They said they didn’t know and that the most effective action to take is to ask Australia’s foremost bargains sharing community for advice.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 03/07/2023 - 12:19
        +2

        U know what, that’s fair. At this point I bet even other authorities like police and courts will look to the rulings of our team of experts assembled here.

        To Ticket or not to ticket?
        Murder or manslaughter?
        Soup or salad?

        Ah jeez better check forums first.

        • theHMASfriendship on 03/07/2023 - 12:24
          +10

          First thing the judge will ask is what does jv reckon?

        • Domingo on 04/07/2023 - 14:55

          Which authority will ask soup or salad? The RBA planning lunch for after the rates announcement?

    • Breno785au on 04/07/2023 - 15:37
      +1

      OP: (profanity) that I want ozbargains opinion first!

  • Some Human on 03/07/2023 - 11:29
    +7

    They have that policy where I work. They have never enforced it.

    • freefall101 on 03/07/2023 - 11:36
      +22

      Yup, most companies have this policy and it's simply used as part of "performance managing" shit employees.

      Pretty sure we have the same policy, but I've never put in a doctors certificate in my life. But with a couple of employees who were were having issues with, when they were sick we asked for it because they had a habit of using sick days to escape doing things at work they didn't want to do (like being constantly "sick" on days they were meant to be in the office or had performance reviews).

      • Subere on 03/07/2023 - 13:39
        +6

        Yeah it's in the policy for all those people that take every other Monday off because they're still hungover from Saturday.

        It's usually up to the line manager to enforce so depends on your relationship with your boss or direct reports.

        • freefall101 on 03/07/2023 - 13:49
          +13

          I actually work in HR data analytics, a graph of sick leave by day of the week is hilarious. Giant spike on Monday, no matter what company. Bit of a spike on Fridays but there's always two kinds of people, those who want a long weekend and those who recognise Friday is the easiest day to be in the office. Best day to chuck a sicky is always a Tuesday, no one notices those ones.

          I'm really tempted to go put together a chart on what days people are in the office vs the weather. I already know the outcome though, if it's raining or cold enough no one is there these days

      • plastererJazz on 03/07/2023 - 14:43

        Me neither, this is a standard policy.

        • capslock janitor on 05/07/2023 - 01:01

          but…

          received a leave policy change email at the start of the new financial year.

  • brad1-8tsi on 03/07/2023 - 11:35
    +5

    20 days a year accumulating.
    Max 3 days without a certificate.
    Certificate needed if taken either side of a public holiday

    • temporiser on 04/07/2023 - 07:38
      +2

      Where do you work? Sounds like the public service

      • brad1-8tsi on 04/07/2023 - 12:53

        public service

        Indeed it is/was.

        The pay wasn't amazing compared to PE but the benefits were very family friendly and good work/life balance.

    • meong on 05/07/2023 - 13:13
      +1

      working for private company here…

      i always tell my direct reports to always get medical certificate if sick for 2 days or more (or either side of weekend/PH) just in case HR comes asking but i never ask them to submit in the sick leave form…

  • altomic on 03/07/2023 - 12:10
    +4

    fully sick bro

  • jv on 03/07/2023 - 12:19
    +8

    What Is Your Workplace Sick Leave Policy?

    "Leave if you are sick."

    • capslock janitor on 05/07/2023 - 01:03
      +1

      wrong, they told me to stay and work even when i was sick

  • theHMASfriendship on 03/07/2023 - 12:23
    -4

    Not to hijack thread but I recently had a surgery to replace my hands with helicopters. My HR department says this isn’t eligible for sick leave because the medical certificate I got wasn’t from a “real” doctor. They were a real doctor though, they had a stethoscope and a waiting room filled with magazines no less than 15 years old. I even brought in the 2007 May edition of Zoo magazine which I swiped from the waiting room as proof of his medical credentials but they still didn’t approve the leave. Should I escalate this to fair work? I am saving all my annual leave to compete in the international birdman rally circuit so I can’t afford to use this.

  • vt on 03/07/2023 - 12:34
    +21

    A statutory declaration should also be acceptable as evidence for sick leave. This would apply for the case you have outlined where you can't get a medical certificate on the day/s you took leave.

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/leave/sick-and-carers-leave/paid…

    • plastererJazz on 03/07/2023 - 14:38

      Yup I knew that one too, but it requires JP services, I genuinely don't think an employer would go this far to question employee health status unless ones abusing the leave system.

      • tikei on 03/07/2023 - 15:46
        +8

        I just get the pharmacist at chemist warehouse to sign my stat declaration.

      • vt on 03/07/2023 - 15:57

        A statutory declaration can be used in lieu of a medical certificate so am unsure about what this has to do with an employer questioning an employees health status.

        Getting a statutory declaration answers your query about "what if I injured my ankle on Sunday, or just severe migraine on Monday morning and I'm unable to attend GP to get a medical certificate?".

        Most likely different in your state but Victoria has a long list of who can be an authorised witness (https://www.justice.vic.gov.au/statdecs) so it's not that difficult to get one here.

      • Chandler on 04/07/2023 - 10:57
        +2

        In my experience these policies are there to be enforced upon the people abusing the system - those not abusing the system don't get the policy enforced on them, so it's situation normal: sick leave without doctor's certificate or statutory declaration.

  • Drakesy on 03/07/2023 - 13:16

    Medical certs for >1 day of leave is pretty much industry standard.

    The only ones who get pissed off with it are those that abuse the system.

    • Leiothrix on 04/07/2023 - 08:22
      +22

      Or anyone that takes a sick day and doesn't want the extra hassle of a pointless doctor visit.

      • robotics on 04/07/2023 - 20:49

        Or just go to work if the Dr visit is pointless

        • Leiothrix on 04/07/2023 - 20:53
          +13

          You can be genuinely sick without needing a doctor you know.

          They can't do anything to help you with your very common cold/flu/gastro types of bugs that go around constantly.

          By attending a doctors premises you are just likely to make other people sick without gaining anything in return.

          Except for a silly piece of paper that means you get paid for the day.

          And that is even worse if you have to care for children which would generally be taken as sick days. Normal healthy kids get sick around 10-12 times per year, they generally don't need to see a doctor about that either.

          • capslock janitor on 05/07/2023 - 01:04

            @Leiothrix: why not telehealth?

          • RefusdClassification on 05/07/2023 - 05:54
            +1

            @Leiothrix: Completely agree. When people get sick, especially younger people, it is due to a respiratory infection, most of which are caused by virii and cannot be fixed by seeing a doctor. Forcing people to work through a respiratory infection (or visit a doctor while contagious), simply spreads the disease through the community.

            It should be illegal for companies or government agencies to force people with communicable illness to have to get a medical certificate for a few days of recuperation. They are wasting a doctor's time and wasting medicare money.

        • froggym on 05/07/2023 - 12:32

          I really don't want to shell out 80 dollars each time by baby brings home some contagious disease from daycare just for them to tell me what I already know.

  • Sawtell on 03/07/2023 - 13:24
    +1

    Use on of the online doctors like qoctor.com.au - legit doctors and if you request an appointment in the morning you will most likely have the certificate before lunch.

    • Velt on 03/07/2023 - 14:07
      +1

      Seconding this. Have used qoctor. Waited for a bit on my couch at home waiting to be seen, 30s consult then medical cert in my email inbox.

    • plastererJazz on 03/07/2023 - 14:41

      Thank you

      May I ask if are they actually doing consultation or just sending certificates only?

      Given the rise of gap fees and no telephone consultation policy, this qoctor might be a good alternative for minor medical issues.

      Regard

      • Sawtell on 03/07/2023 - 16:32
        +1

        Its an actual consult. I dont think any doctor in Australia would give a certificate without speaking with and confirming details.

      • Given on 04/07/2023 - 12:12

        One day it's reviewed by a doctor online and depending on your symptoms they'll email it through.
        Over one day they'll video call.

    • unwashed00 on 04/07/2023 - 15:05
      +3

      Is qoctor short for quack doctor?

      • Sawtell on 04/07/2023 - 18:35

        Reverse q.

      • ezekiel181 on 05/07/2023 - 21:03
        +2

        Should have tested the waters further with this name - is it pronounced cocktor?

  • Unorthodox on 03/07/2023 - 13:35

    Previous job was more progressive and they used the term Personal Leave.
    No Q's on reason, so you could take a mental health day or just to recover.

    (Obviously all things within reason) - if people were to abuse it, they would go back to asking people to have a med cert or getting one if it fell on Mon/Fri, consecutive days or adjacent to a public holiday.

    Never ended up being asked for a cert and didn't use all my days as last year I used up all my COVID leave when I get Covid.

    • plastererJazz on 03/07/2023 - 14:37

      I have the same experience, my first 2 Covid days felt into a weekend and I work through the next week as I don't feel the need to take leave.

  • djsweet on 03/07/2023 - 14:07
    +2

    I’ve never been asked to provide a medical certificate at any job in my entire life. Current policy is a cert for more than 2 consecutive days. I had 3 days off for Covid and no one asked for proof. Was fine. Guess it depends on the workplace and whether they trust you or not.

    • plastererJazz on 03/07/2023 - 14:32

      Me neither. it is quite a standard policy

      It is the fact that my employer issues this announcement to reiterate and use the phrase "…will be processed as unpaid leave" as suppose to "might/could be …" got me thinking.

    • Nebargains on 05/07/2023 - 08:08

      Same, no reasonable employer is going to ask a good employee for a medical certificate. I have seen people who took regular sick days and were generally poor performing employees get asked but that is about it.

      I frankly don't even know what my current contract says and I have taken sick leave a number of times and not once was I asked for a certificate.

      Only time I have been asked, my previous job did have a new manager come on board and asked me for one (after I took 1 day off and I was quite clearly still sick but was WFH) because technically that was the policy and he wanted to follow all the rules to a T, I said no I wasn't going to waste my time going to the doctor when I should be at home resting and he said fair enough and that was that. Only time in 20 years.

      Honestly seems so stupid getting sick people to go to a doctor, to get a piece of paper that says they were sick, especially for things that a doctors visit won't solve (like a cold).

  • AustriaBargain on 03/07/2023 - 15:07

    Surely a certificate can be backdated? If you broke your ankle on Sunday and you see a doctor Tuesday, your doctor would have no problem writing a certificate that covers Monday you'd think. If your ankle is broken you should see a doctor anyway.

    • pjetson on 04/07/2023 - 16:48
      +1

      Surely a certificate can be backdated

      Many doctors will not backdate a medical certificate.

      • nicrankin on 04/07/2023 - 18:43

        The medical certificate must be signed and dated the date of observation (the no back dating part), but it can state someone was unable to work for a reasonable period before the date of observation.

      • qaz182 on 04/07/2023 - 18:45

        Just sign a statdec legally saying you were and unwell and that is enough

  • trapper on 03/07/2023 - 15:16
    -2

    Make sure you submit an expenses request for the doctors bill.

    • Drakesy on 03/07/2023 - 15:47
      +1

      Tell me you've never worked before without telling me.

      • trapper on 03/07/2023 - 16:39
        -4

        Admittedly I've never been asked to prove I was sick before, but if I was I would expect to have these expenses fully covered.

        My taxi to the doctor too.

        • Drakesy on 03/07/2023 - 16:56
          +5

          Your expectations unfortunately don't match what's required of an employer.

  • sam-1966 on 03/07/2023 - 16:10
    +6

    It sounds like they are just targeting people who have been abusing the system. Most workplaces are fine with staff they know are genuine.

  • bobbified on 03/07/2023 - 19:06
    +2

    I can't even get an appointment on the same day. And when I eventually do, about 3 days later, it costs me $100 out of pocket. I'm lucky noone has ever asked me for a certificate for taking a few days off, regardless of company policy.

  • AndyC1 on 03/07/2023 - 19:55
    -2

    Standard policy for a company that either:
    a) Wants to screw the staff and make more money.
    b) Has had way too many staff taking sick leave on Friday or Monday compared to the other days of the week in order to have a long weekend.

    Legally this change is okay, but morally it may suck.

  • 2esc on 04/07/2023 - 08:24

    Most doctors wont backdate. Police can do statutory declarations but there quite a few other people as well and for free.

    • qaz182 on 04/07/2023 - 18:42

      You can statdec yourself

  • No and then on 04/07/2023 - 08:49

    Or if you get on well with your manager, don't even need to log it. My personal leave is almost as long as my long service.

  • virgo76 on 04/07/2023 - 09:22

    I work in the medical field. If your not generally sick or sick on a Mon or Fri then no issue. Very common in workplaces to deter people who do the wrong thing.
    Most of the time you can have a telehealth consult at your GP clinic you attend, assuming there are no face to face appt's.

    • Wasabi Ninja on 04/07/2023 - 10:35

      Is the Telehealth bulk billed?

  • mavis30551 on 04/07/2023 - 10:26
    +4

    Its a Stupid policy. You have a 40% chance you are going to feel unwell on one of those days (out of the working week). Why should employees have to jump through hoops, pay a ridiculous high fee to see a doctor (if you can even get in to the doctors) for a sick day. Sick leave is an entitlement, employers should stop treating employees like criminals when wanting to use their entitlements.

    If I'm going to get a cold or flu, you can bet money that its probably from the Friday/Saturday time I got to socialise with friends or go out in public places. I play sports and probably come in close contact with 100's of people on the weekend. If I am going to feel unwell, its pretty likely symptoms are going to start showing Monday, as I'm pretty quiet during the week.

    It just encourages people to show up to work feeling unwell and potentially spreading their cold/flu/covid further.

  • Wasabi Ninja on 04/07/2023 - 10:33
    -1

    Do they pay the gap in your doctors bill? You shouldn’t be out of pocket for being sick. This is a remnant from when doctors bulk billed.
    I’m a contractor and they keep trying to get me to go staff. When they work out the staff rate they include sick leave in the rate. So if staff members don’t take it. They’re actually worse off.

    • trapper on 06/07/2023 - 20:20
      +1

      Do they pay the gap in your doctors bill? You shouldn’t be out of pocket for being sick.

      I had a similar comment and also got downvoted…

      If I were required to pay for a medical certificate or any other thing for my company, I would submit it as an expense.

      • Wasabi Ninja on 07/07/2023 - 00:03

        Yeah I don’t get why people are so keen to spend their money for their employer on a sick day. Unless it’s business owners downvoting.

  • ColtNoir on 04/07/2023 - 10:38
    +9

    I haven’t had to give a cert in 10 years. Quite frankly, our tax money is being wasted by these businesses that have these policies. I guarantee you, if the government changed the legislation to force employers to pay for the appointments, the company policies would change.

  • gromit on 04/07/2023 - 11:37

    That is a farely standard policy. We have that where I work too however they don't generally enforce it unless someone seems to always mysteriously only get sick on a monday or friday or are constantly using up exactly all their sick leave at convenient times of the year.

  • CowFrogHorse on 04/07/2023 - 12:34

    If companies want to save money they should fire 9 out of 10 of their HR and managers. We all know they are basically useless parasites most of the time, being experts in nothing core to any business. With those saving giving staff an extra one or two days a month off would still mean the company is way ahead. Staff will also be far happier and do their tasks properly instead like slackos.

  • The Hawk on 04/07/2023 - 13:31

    Ours is something like more than two days or more than five days in a year before you need a cert. Now it's enforced by the HR system so no more discretion by your manager.

    Working from home has also kind of helped with it since you can be sick enough to not go to the office, but well enough to still be productive meaning less sick time. That said, I stupidly worked through my COVID period (from home) where I should have just had a week off to recover. Won't be making that mistake again.

    I understand the policy is to stop people from just using sick days like extra annual leave, but it can become a PITA if you've had a legit week off with something like COVID in January it would mean you need a cert for every day for the rest of the year. So even a headache would require a trip to the doctor and in more and more cases a fee.

  • GrueHunter on 04/07/2023 - 14:19

    Is this your boss?

  • p1 ama on 04/07/2023 - 14:28

    I've always found the concept of sick leave strange - it should all just be credited towards annual leave.

    Then you can take that annual leave for whatever reason (regardless of whether you're sick or not), and if you're sick and have used up all your annual leave, then you just have to take unpaid leave.

    • gromit on 04/07/2023 - 14:41
      +4

      The problem then is people come to work when they are actually sick as no one wants to waste annual leave on being sick, this then makes other people sick.

      • capslock janitor on 05/07/2023 - 01:08

        thats fully sickk

      • trapper on 06/07/2023 - 20:21
        +1

        People come to work sick anyway, need to save that sick leave for taking sickies haha

  • sauce2k on 04/07/2023 - 14:31
    +1

    For me just need to lodge it, no questions asked but again I think it depends on how often you lodge a sick leave. Personally I haven't done so much and got a decent personal brand at work, so maybe that's why they don't ask.

  • xavster on 04/07/2023 - 15:26
    +3

    I've dropped sick leave and just give my employees 10 days personal leave on top of their 20 day annual leave.

    Saves me dealing with med certs and them dealing with GPs.

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