Tenants Hasn't Paid Rent for 2 Months in Canberra

notChatGPT on 23/06/2023 - 15:59
Last edited 24/06/2023 - 14:14

Hi Team just trying to navigate a tricky situation where my tenant is just not paying for the property they have leased. They initially came up with some excuse or the other but have now completely stopped responding. I have sent out a couple of notices to remedy and now a notice to vacate but have received no acknowledgment or response. I have now lodged an application with ACAT (the tribunal in Canberra) but unsure what follows next. I believe I have been very understanding landlord so far but with constant interest rate rises my limits are being tested. I was as is out of pocket by a decent amount of money with rent being paid, now without it, the emergency funds are depleting fast.

I understand every state has different laws around tenancy but just trying to get a general idea around how to navigate the situation from people who might have experienced this before.

Update: Thanks all for the support shown and in some cases not so much. Yes there is a lease in place and i gave the tenants multiple chances to pay up. I even set up a payment plan post discussions with them identifying what is convenient for them. post the dur date of there payments and subsequent rent they have gone silent and are not responding at all. My fault is, I was trusting enough for a relatively longish durantion and thought that i am helping someone in trouble without realising its me who is being taken for a ride.

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Comments

                • terrys on 25/06/2023 - 11:24

                  @sakurashu: Don't get sick unless you can afford it?

                  Thanks for that advice. You can now carry on with demanding your local electricity provider sells off the back-up generators and staff they have on hand to supply the power to those on there "medical requirement " list.

                  The resulting saving on your power bill could go to paying the increased taxation required to move all those to the new hospital wards and residences constructed as "Using home electricity for life support is also nonsense to be clear".

                  If you ever manage to leave your isolated bubble and visit our planet you could put your idea forward.

            • terrys on 25/06/2023 - 11:05
              +1

              @sakurashu: "Using home electricity for life support is also nonsense "

              It's not often a contributor is so considerate as to let me know they are rabbiting on from a base of total ignorance so early in their post.

              CF: Nimbus mattress, CPAP, dialysis, heart-rate monitors…

          • juki on 25/06/2023 - 12:14

            @Iwantthebestprice: why do people always assume people dont pay their rent because of hardship rather than dishonesty and lacking morals?

        • AN Other on 25/06/2023 - 11:12
          +2

          "I notice that you didn't decry the tenant refusing to pay the rent as a scumbag move…???"

          Not sure how well you understand the law, but you can't just go and do what you want as a landlord, and for good reason.

          The tenants in this case are clearly in the wrong, and the proper recourse to dealing with them is through the law. Ripping out fuses, taking people's doors off or threatening them is not sensible.

    • GOCAT9 on 24/06/2023 - 16:09

      How would you do this in a modern meter box. There are NO fuses, just breakers now instead which can be easily turned back on!!

    • AN Other on 25/06/2023 - 11:33
      +2

      I'm on the landlord's side here, but if I were a tenant and someone ripped out my fusebox I'd be inclined to request an APVO against them as it's clearly intimidation.

  • stickingly on 23/06/2023 - 16:41
    +11

    There is a process you need to follow
    https://www.acat.act.gov.au/case-types/rental-disputes/warra….

    Having been through this in Victoria it takes a while but eventually the police will evict the tenants (the tenants get plenty of opportunity to remedy during the process)

    • RockyRaccoon on 23/06/2023 - 17:20
      +5

      And while you wait, you keep paying the mortgage and good luck getting any back rent. After the bond is used up you are SOoL

      • bohn on 23/06/2023 - 17:44
        +12

        That's why you need to lodge a notice on the 15th day of non-payment of rent to get things moving.
        The tenant has 14 days under the Act to pay, so on the 15th day the agent should serve a notice to protect the interests of the landlord.

        • Yola on 24/06/2023 - 08:41
          +3

          Agree. Because the process takes a long time It is crucial to start on the 15th day. Firstly so that the tenant knows you are serious and secondly so you can get them out ASAP if they still do not pay.

      • Mechz on 23/06/2023 - 19:13

        Leasing an investment property to strangers is not without risk. OP should have used an agent.

        • Ughhh on 23/06/2023 - 20:10
          +10

          Leasing an investment property to strangers is not without risk.

          True, but it doesn't mean op cannot mitigate loss or address the issue ie. Getting rid of the particular risk. It seems people believe op should just has bend over and accept it, as if he's a charity.

          Sometimes people here almost convince me to rent out my house, then rent someone else's house and not pay rent at all, seeing how much support I would probably get as a tenant.

            • Ughhh on 23/06/2023 - 20:33
              +19

              @Protractor: Perhaps you got a spare room for them to stay rent free? Show op and other landlords what humanity is, society definitely need more of your kindness.

                • Ughhh on 23/06/2023 - 22:08
                  +16

                  @Protractor: It doesn't really matter what the reason is, op has made it clear he's not a charitable person, but you are. You seem like a really caring human being who would help out ops tenants, and/or perhaps others in your area in a similar situation.

                  So, as I said before, perhaps you got a spare room for them to stay without pay? Help out a fellow human being and show op and others what humanity is. Will you or not?

                    • cookie2 on 24/06/2023 - 07:11
                      +10

                      @Protractor: Labels abound.
                      Poor investor
                      Black and gold greedy
                      Opportunist

                      It's just a person, trying to get their payment from another person that committed to paying them. Not being able to pay rent for 2 months is a world of difference to a late or partial payment and this 'cost of living crisis' isn't the responsibility of individuals to support.
                      Even if we go ahead and jump and presume lack of funds is the reason, what no payment at all? Cost of living has meant they have $1-2k less per month? And haven't provided notice they're going to leave and move into something they can afford? Maybe the tenant is the one with another mortgage to pay.

                    • Ughhh on 24/06/2023 - 08:18
                      +7

                      @Protractor: If you allow anyone to stay at your house, for free, for at least 2 months, I think everyone would pick you. Maybe op could rent out his ppr too and live in yours for free.

                      Also, seems like a bit of invasion of privacy to interrogate the tenants as to why they're not paying.

                        • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 09:07
                          +11

                          @Protractor: Invasion of the tenants privacy?

                          How so? Has the tenant been named? Has the tenants details been posted?

                          The OP is just asking for the appropriate advice on how to handle the situation.

                          And the appropriate way to handle the situation is to take appropriate action through ACAT.

                          The entire process through the tribunal allows for the tenant to make good on their unpaid rent.

                          If at the end of the process the tenant refuses to pay up, it’s likely the OP will apply for a possession order to evict the tenant(s).

                          Sure, the OP might be able to make a claim on their landlord insurance policy, but there’s no doubt the landlord will be left out of pocket. Yes it’s part of the risk of investment.

                          But does that make it acceptable for a tenant to not honour the legal contracts they’ve signed?

                          Not by any means.

                          The tenant is clearly in the wrong here. Which you seem hellbent trying to defend.

                          If you’re a tenant and can’t honour the contracts you’ve signed, then you should negotiate with the other party and try and come to a mutual agreement.

                            • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 10:29
                              +8

                              @Protractor: You’ve really showing how little knowledge you have in regards to property ownership costs in comparison to rental income.

                              The returns on property investment are relatively low. But they’re low because it’s generally considered to be a fairly safe investment option.

                              I don’t know why the tenant defaulted. But the fact is, it doesn’t matter. If a tenant cannot honour their agreement to pay rent, they should step up and enter into negotiations with the landlord to get out of the contract they signed, with minimal cost to both parties.

                              What ever happened to being fučking honest and doing the right thing?

                              • Protractor on 24/06/2023 - 10:41
                                -3

                                @Extreme: "You’ve really showing how little knowledge you have in regards to property ownership costs in comparison to rental income." Seems ditto for OP

                                • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 10:54
                                  +2

                                  @Protractor: Seems you’ve got nothing of value to add to the OP’s post and just throwing out personal attacks.

                                  I’m sure the OP knows the costs of THEIR rental property.

                                  Why did you even comment on this thread in the first place?

                                  • Protractor on 24/06/2023 - 11:17
                                    -4

                                    @Extreme: Why do you feel the need to play moderator ? It's a public forum the OP is an adult, and has publicly made his case.It gets scrutinised. People have different views. You're not happy with mine ?
                                    What national secret would the "some excuse or the other" be other than some as yet legitimate reason?

                                    You are the one playing the pay up or piss off card based on what?
                                    It sounds to me more like YOUR viewpoint is projecting the ideology of a superior class e, more overlord , than landlord.
                                    If you actually read the thread again , the fact that it even exists, that it makes the claims it does,demonstrates very well what I said about the position the OP finds themselves in as far as across the brief. Once again, there's more to this story.We do not even know what the terms of the lease are, if there even is one. Before you throw around accusations of 'hostage to ideology' as a defence, look at your own position, and what 'we' all have to base the case on.

                                  • Protractor on 24/06/2023 - 11:18
                                    -1

                                    @Extreme: So ,let's be clear YOU are saying that this tenant is a thief in this scenario?

                                    • Yola on 24/06/2023 - 11:20
                                      +13

                                      @Protractor: The tenant is a thief. They are taking something that does not belong to them unless they pay rent. There may be reasons but they are not even willing to communicate. So they are wilfully stealing.

                                    • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 11:40
                                      +12

                                      @Protractor: Yes. The tenant is a thief in this scenario.

                                      If you think they aren’t, then you are part of what’s wrong with society today.

                                    • sakurashu on 24/06/2023 - 19:38
                                      +5

                                      @Protractor: 100% the tenant is a thief - I don't know how you can rationalise otherwise

                • greatlamp on 24/06/2023 - 15:12
                  +3

                  @Protractor: So at least $4000 is nothing to you?

      • AustriaBargain on 24/06/2023 - 15:48
        +2

        Buying an investment property while living week by week seems a but foolish. OP decrying the tenants for not being able to pay their obligations when they hit a rough patch for 8 weeks, when OP himself is unable to pay his own obligations when he hit a rough patch for 8 weeks, all seems a bit rich. If there were fewer “property investors” like OP then maybe rents would be lower and the tenants would have been more easily able to pay their rent. The whole thing seems like a house of cards ready to tumble at any moment. Wishing for higher property values is like a monkey paw curse; when you get your wish you find renters can’t afford to pay and your property gets foreclosed on!

    • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 09:11
      +4

      Thanks, already lodged …apologies if i was unclear in my post.

      Part of the question was if i can get some guidance around what to expect in trubunal.

      • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 10:41
        +1

        It’s most likely what will happen is the tribunal member will ask both parties their version of events, without looking too much at the evidence presented, but have all your evidence ready just in case.

        It’s likely the tenant will be afforded some attritional time to enter into a payment arrangement and/or some time rent free to find alternative living arrangements.

        But it all comes down to the tenant. There’s a chance they’ll pay in full before the hearing so they can’t be evicted at that point in time.

        Understand you might have to go through the process several times before you are granted possession.

        • Bob Svargis on 24/06/2023 - 14:32
          +2

          Good advice. I had to go through the tribunal 3 times and then get the Sheriff involved to evict my tenants. Lost thousands and insurance only covered a tiny amount of rent. 6 months rent unpaid.

          • stickingly on 25/06/2023 - 13:34
            +2

            @Bob Svargis: Same here, if the tenant knows the system and how to game it, they can keep dragging it out.

            At best it will give them a fright and they will see that you are serious and pay up

  • dogboy on 23/06/2023 - 18:09
    +19

    Challenge them to a contest that you can throw a hoola-hoop over the chimney - if you can do it they leave, otherwise you will sign the deed of the house over to them…

    • bloom on 23/06/2023 - 21:11
      +8

      If you aren’t familiar with this one, just as you pretend to throw the hula hoop run into the house and lock the doors

      Winner winner chicken dinner

  • ihbh on 23/06/2023 - 18:22
    +5

    Good communication is very important. I had a situation probably even worse than this, but we worked out a payment plan and the tenants stayed with me for almost 20 years. That results in big savings compared to regular turnover of tenants.

    But I had an agent and didn't have to do any of this myself.

    The ones that don't communicate are problematic; things can be worse - there could be damage to the property so be prepared.

    • dbmitch on 24/06/2023 - 12:14

      "Have an agent and its way easier to deal with"

  • Protractor on 23/06/2023 - 19:05
    -8

    Easy to spot the landlords in this thread.
    Even easier to spot the fair ones, albeit such a small number.

    • cookie2 on 24/06/2023 - 07:13
      +4

      How can you tell the landlords? Anyway I think the ideal of 'fairness' is very subjective. I also think Australia isn't a fair country so don't presume fairness is an entitlement because it's not.

    • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 09:22
      +10

      It’s easy to see you’re a tenant.

      It’s clear to see you don’t understand the costs and time involved for a landlord to go through the correct process.

      I’ve been through the process of evicting a non paying tenant. Albeit in a different state to the OP. The entire process took just shy of 5 months.

      After a claim for the bond, an insurance claim(limited to 4 weeks rent) and the appropriate costs such as lodging the claim, and representation, I was left with a little under an equivalent of 2 weeks rent.

      Yes, that’s the risk you take with investment. There’s a risk you lose money. But that doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for a tenant to not honour their contract. It’s no different to shop lifting. It’s theft.

      What that then means is, the landlord then needs to attempt to recover the losses using other means. It means others will need to pay going forward, in a similar way that shops recuperate their losses from theft through higher prices for everyone else.

        • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 10:16
          +8

          No it doesn’t say it at all.

          Of course it’s a form of theft. It’s taking something without paying for it.

          How is a landlord attempting to recover losses greed? It’s not greed at all. It’s covering losses. In the same way a business covers their losses also.

          Your chain of thought is completely wrong.

          What has the OP done wrong here? They’ve honoured their contract with the tenant. It’s the tenant that has done wrong, by not honouring their side of the rental agreement.

          I’d be happy for you to prove otherwise.

          • Protractor on 24/06/2023 - 10:25
            -4

            @Extreme: So ,let's be clear YOU are saying that this tenant is a thief in this scenario.

            As for the greed comment, read it again.

            The reason rents have gone through the roof is as much about opportunism as it is about interest rates. Ppl have even been hanging back waiting for OS students, and that's pushed it up even more. Factors driving all that? Greed

            • spc12go on 24/06/2023 - 12:00
              +7

              @Protractor: Try stay at a hotel for two months without paying and not communicating and see what happens.

              • Protractor on 24/06/2023 - 12:05
                -5

                @spc12go: I guess you're in the "send the boys around " camp too?

                Why can't the tenants pay? What does the OPs lease say? Does he have one? How often is rent due? How much out of pocket is 2 months rent?

                • spc12go on 24/06/2023 - 12:24
                  +8

                  @Protractor: I am just trying to apply the logic of not paying for a service or product.

                  When you have used a product or service with out paying, what would be the consequences. Would the provider care what kind of situation I am in or the background story? no. Police would be called ASAP, and neither the police or magistrate would care 2c about the background story.

                  Having a roof over the head is not a right, if that’s the case we wouldn’t have so many homeless person on the street. And everyone would have a roof over their head.

                  The amount of people applying for government housing is a joke. The wait list is at least 5 years. This is not acceptable.

                  • Jolakot on 24/06/2023 - 12:42
                    +3

                    @spc12go: Woolworths underpaid 6000 staff by $570 million after inflation, they settled for $350 million in court.

                    If you're poor then theft is a criminal matter, if you're rich then it's a civil matter

                    • spc12go on 24/06/2023 - 12:53

                      @Jolakot: Yes because the workers don’t have access to the same lawyers Woolies has.

                      Goes back to the principle that under privileged will always be worst off, because they don’t have access to the facilities and knowledge the wealthy has.

        • tasty-falafel on 24/06/2023 - 17:12
          +3

          Stop fighting this, there is no scenario where this tenant is not a scumbag thief who is not paying their rent which they are obligated to. They need to be thrown out and blacklisted from renting a property in future (minimum 5-10 years). Maybe after some time in the homeless camps they can be grateful for the roof over their head, which by the way MANY OTHER tenants would be thankful for. If you don't believe me just look at the lines for rental properties that are advertised.

    • RMBC on 24/06/2023 - 10:13
      +4

      Nonsense, it is however blazingly obvious to see the bias, and fantastical postions of some replies

  • drfuzzy on 23/06/2023 - 19:18
    -2

    Is the lease signed by a certain Anthony Albanese?

    • terrys on 25/06/2023 - 11:31
      +1

      Indeed. Scotty from marketing would have got over the problem of being unable to pay by appointing himself as the landlord.

  • Maglia Nera on 23/06/2023 - 20:33
    -3

    tenant probably a Greens member?

  • MrThing on 23/06/2023 - 20:45

    Send a plague of mice

    • duchy on 24/06/2023 - 13:55
      +1

      Username checks out.

    • Analytical Therapist on 25/06/2023 - 19:54

      Should we also forgive the kiddy diddling priests?

      • monky on 26/06/2023 - 14:14
        +1

        idk what to say… It was just a joke, but you took it to a pretty dark place…

        • Analytical Therapist on 26/06/2023 - 19:06

          The same dark place that the priest took the alter boy?

  • batfastard on 24/06/2023 - 07:12

    Let me Google that for you.

    https://flatmates.com.au/info/act-landlord-termination#:~:te….

    • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 13:37
      +1

      i have followed all the required steps..primarily, I was after the guidance post lodgement in the tribunal.

      • batfastard on 25/06/2023 - 07:37

        Apply to ACAT — the landlord can apply to ACAT after giving a Notice to Vacate for a termination and possession order. If the tenant does not move out by the termination date, ACAT will then hold a hearing.

  • Overclocked91 on 24/06/2023 - 08:06
    +2

    If you're running at such a loss. Is there any point in holding the property with the number of stress/issues you have? Can you sell the property?

      • Overclocked91 on 24/06/2023 - 12:16
        +12

        Unfortunately, that's irrelevant. If the agreement is to pay rent to live there regardless of what he does with his spare money. He should be paid.

      • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 13:40
        +10

        @protractor do you wanna work for me for free..
        i thought so..

      • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 13:46
        +6

        Oh geeze.

        You really are showing how clueless you are.

        You say he’s not running at a loss, then throw out the words “negative gearing”.

        I guess you don’t know that negative gearing is the same as an operating loss…..

        Negative gearing is when a properties costs exceed the income that property produces. Negative gearing allows you to offset those losses against other income.

        If the property was turning a profit, it would be positive geared and the OP would be paying additional tax as a result.

  • taradavey on 24/06/2023 - 08:20
    +7

    I'm sorry you're going through this stress, OP.
    It would be a very difficult situation considering the interest rates.
    I wish I had some advice about the tenants but I don't have any experience unfortunately.
    But just remember there are options when it comes to your mortgage (going interest only, etc), so if push comes to shove contact the bank and get some help.
    I hope it all resolves soon.

  • Sinnerator on 24/06/2023 - 08:27

    Give an off meds schizophrenic keys to the house, problem #1 solved, but then……
    IANAL

  • kiwijunglist on 24/06/2023 - 08:51
    +18

    Wow the advice on here is pretty nasty and unhelpful.

    The op is just asking for advice on the process of evicting a tenant who refuses to pay rent and refuses to communicate with the landlord. As well as advice on debt recovery.

    • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 09:32
      +7

      It’s always the same crap.

      Landlord vs tenant.

      The reality of it is, most tenants do the right thing.

      Unfortunately in situations like this, the OP is likely to be left out of pocket. The process takes months and tenants are given several opportunities to come good on getting their rental arrears up to date.

      My advice to the OP is to start the appropriate process through ACAT today. It’ll take months to obtain a possession order, if it gets that far.

      • josaya on 24/06/2023 - 12:05
        +6

        Totally agree, start the appropriate process ASAP. You can stop any "in progress" court processes if they comply.

        As someone who's been through the same ordeal about 5years back, there is a certain amount of "days" that you can serve an "eviction". A bailiff to evict will also take a certain amount of time to process. All said and done, even when we followed the minimum amount of time, it dragged out to around 3+months. I believe some laws were changed around the COVID outbreak that made this worse.

        Our tenants (which were ok for 3 years and we never raised the rent) trashed the place and subleased it in that time, involving even more innocent people. From memory, other times include further cleanup and repair bills, time for court appearances (or pay the realtor much more than our daily wage) to get bond and costs (for debt collectors), and some minor time to chase up utilities and provide documentation that the previous tenant defaulted. Roughly 25k covered by insurance (because work done for insurance is subpar), with total out of pocket around 10-15k

    • lachhelix on 24/06/2023 - 11:22
      +15

      Totally agree, I honestly can't believe the attitude of a lot of the commenters - really childish and sound like real assholes

      Used up my negs for the day in the first 30 seconds

      • Yola on 24/06/2023 - 11:27
        +5

        Me too. Amazing how some people can disregard logic to make a political point.

        • RMBC on 24/06/2023 - 15:17

          Unfortunately mental gymnastics appears to be taught these days rather than logic and reasoning skills. There has also been a documented increase in narcissism, I'd surmise linked to the rise of intersectionalism

          • Bob Svargis on 26/06/2023 - 17:02
            +2

            @RMBC: I put it down to identity politics which seems to be all the rage these days. Ie. if you rent out a property, you're an evil greedy landlord taking advantage of renters. If you're a renter, you're a downtrodden, oppressed honest person and deserve a freebie.

            We all know life isn't like that, but that is how the identity politicians see everything - look at some of the threads in this topic.

  • jm7 on 24/06/2023 - 09:19
    +4

    Is there a formal lease in place?

    • Protractor on 24/06/2023 - 10:18

      Question of the thread, and so far in.

    • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 14:59
      +1

      @jm7 yes

      • jm7 on 24/06/2023 - 20:31
        +1

        When does it end?

        • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 22:26
          +1

          @jm7
          March next year.

  • 2esc on 24/06/2023 - 09:29
    +7

    Sorry to hear its a very difficult situation.

    Most tenants have no idea or sympathy for landlords and many think landlords are all filthy rich and naively think landlords own the property outright.(Even if they did the rent was agreed to).

    Good luck sorting it out.

  • jonkvh on 24/06/2023 - 10:30

    Just serve the tennant via a lawyer, you circumvent a lot of crap that way.

    • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 15:01
      +2

      @jonkvh i thoughtbof doing so bit the advise a couple of law firms i spoke to was ACAT is where i should head as they are the authority for the first decision.

      • jonkvh on 24/06/2023 - 15:46
        +1

        Some lawyers can be a bit mainstream sometimes. Next time, if you're going to wholly handle the rental yourself, hire a private investigator to do background checks on the new renters. Better than any credit score check or reference.

        • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 15:47
          +1

          Thanks for that

  • witsa on 24/06/2023 - 12:49
    +4

    Do you have landlord insurance and is it a specialised one like Terri scheer?

    Forget the agent at this point - you'll be hard pressed to find anyone to represent you and even if you do, they won't be able to do any more than you can.

    But yeah the process to evict a tenant is brutal. Going to be at least 6+ months of no rent and worst case your house gets trashed afterwards.

    Good luck and make sure you follow and understand the process very thoroughly. This is going to be a long process.

    • Extreme on 24/06/2023 - 13:52
      +2

      The OP stated the tenant is refusing to communicate…..

    • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 15:03
      +1

      @JH100
      i wish you had read the post.

      I have made it more detailed

    • Analytical Therapist on 25/06/2023 - 19:58

      Jesus, Who pissed in your lemonade?

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