Tenants Hasn't Paid Rent for 2 Months in Canberra

notChatGPT on 23/06/2023 - 15:59
Last edited 24/06/2023 - 14:14

Hi Team just trying to navigate a tricky situation where my tenant is just not paying for the property they have leased. They initially came up with some excuse or the other but have now completely stopped responding. I have sent out a couple of notices to remedy and now a notice to vacate but have received no acknowledgment or response. I have now lodged an application with ACAT (the tribunal in Canberra) but unsure what follows next. I believe I have been very understanding landlord so far but with constant interest rate rises my limits are being tested. I was as is out of pocket by a decent amount of money with rent being paid, now without it, the emergency funds are depleting fast.

I understand every state has different laws around tenancy but just trying to get a general idea around how to navigate the situation from people who might have experienced this before.

Update: Thanks all for the support shown and in some cases not so much. Yes there is a lease in place and i gave the tenants multiple chances to pay up. I even set up a payment plan post discussions with them identifying what is convenient for them. post the dur date of there payments and subsequent rent they have gone silent and are not responding at all. My fault is, I was trusting enough for a relatively longish durantion and thought that i am helping someone in trouble without realising its me who is being taken for a ride.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • ass3ts on 24/06/2023 - 12:54
    +2

    Tenants will be removed eventually, if I were you I'd be more concerned about the amount of damage to the property they may leave behind.

    • dbmitch on 26/06/2023 - 19:16

      Correct, The tenants will camp until the day the sheriff shows up and finally move off their ass, because of course they don't wanna be found now they absolutely trashed the place and be actually held liable and responsible for damages.

  • JH100 on 24/06/2023 - 12:57

    Interesting article on the housing situation here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/24/greens…

  • Bob Svargis on 24/06/2023 - 14:18

    I always worry when I hear of landlords who don't use an agent, but I always assume they know what they're doing. But it turns out in this case that they don't know the laws, their rights or the steps involved in resolving issues.

    To the OP: go to ACAT, NCAT or whatever the tribunal is in your state or territory. But first, maybe get a solicitor, and use the money that you "saved" on not using an agent to pay your legal fees

    • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 15:05
      +2

      @Bob Svargis already done..the intent of the post was to figure out the direction post the approach to ACAT and what to expect there

      • Bob Svargis on 24/06/2023 - 15:08
        +5

        Best of luck. Been to the tribunal 3 times. Took 5 months to get my tenants out after non payment of rent. Hope it all goes well for you.

        • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 15:49

          @Bob Svargis
          Thanks for the heads up..was it with ACAT?

          • Bob Svargis on 24/06/2023 - 18:37
            +13

            @notChatGPT: Mine was with NCAT as I'm in NSW. Technically speaking it was its predecessor which was CTTT (Consumer, Tenancy and something-else-that-starts-with-T Tribunal).

            It was painful. The tenant stretched it out as much as possible and still got away with it. Even after kicking them out with the Sheriff, they still left their stuff there. I had to arrange for the agency to give them access for a couple of hours for 2 weekends so they could remove their stuff… and they still managed to damage my kitchen benches and front yard drip-watering system on the way out (plus left a heck of a mess). And of course insurance only paid up for 1 month rent and only 1 "event" which was the kitchen bench damage.

            I also had a good agent who executed everything by the book, as early as was permitted. Those who blame the landlord like some of those morons near the start of your thread should hang their heads in shame, as they obviously have never owned an asset in their life and are blaming everyone else - whether it be capitalism, landlords, big business, small business - in fact anyone trying to make a go of things.

            I suspect your tenants won't show up for the tribunal, so make sure you are very clear in what you want to happen. Ie. do you want them out, and by what date - be very clear and definitive. That is what helped me at the third tribunal hearing.

            At my third hearing, I was granted an eviction order, which my agent then took and used to book the sheriff. Sheriff organised a date/time, they showed up, I showed up with the agent (although I didn't need to be there). Agent gave the sheriff the key, sheriff went inside and told the tenant to get out and that's it… It was somewhat satisfying seeing someone who had set out to rip me off mercilessly getting removed from my house. Nobody likes going through this but they had about 5 or 6 months to sort things out and consistently failed to meet the payment plans they had negotiated.

            • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 22:23
              +3

              @Bob Svargis: @Bob Svargis
              many thanks mate for the elaborate response. This really helps in setting my expectations.

              Noting i dont have a property manager I will plan for the things myself that you advised were done by the agent in your case.

              thanks again

              • Bob Svargis on 26/06/2023 - 19:11

                @notChatGPT: Would love to get an update from you once you get a chance to get on top of this. Good luck. Go hard. The magistrate/judge gave my tenants too many chances but I guess that's what you have to do. You've already given yours enough chances to square away the debt.

            • ass3ts on 25/06/2023 - 10:51

              @Bob Svargis: Which area was the property in?

              • Bob Svargis on 26/06/2023 - 07:18

                @ass3ts: Inner West of Sydney. Not a rich area but not a poor area either.

            • tajid on 26/06/2023 - 21:36

              @Bob Svargis: Did you get any payment at the end after they left?

              • Bob Svargis on 27/06/2023 - 15:49

                @tajid: I got $800 out of the $1200 kitchen damage, and 4 or 6 weeks rent (can't recall exactly whether it was 4 or 6). However as I was down 5 months' worth, it was a drop in the ocean compared to the loss.

                The insurer (it was via an agency, organised via the real estate agent) is one I will never deal with again. I had to engage the insurance complaints commission - which is an industry funded body. Ultimately I had to call the regional MD of the insurance agency to ask them why they hadn't paid the claim despite agreeing to pay it. They used the excuse that their "lines to the insurance company were down". At the time I was a Cisco-focused engineer. I suggested that as a CCNA at the time, what they were telling me was deceptive because lines to insurance companies shouldn't be down for more than a week, which was the excuse they were spinning to me. This was escalated to their CEO who then had the nerve to say "Well, how can we pay your claim if the lines are down?"… I am serious, you can't make this stuff up.

                Ultimately I was paid, but like I said the payment was a drop in the ocean compared to my losses. I am more selective with my landlord insurance now, and always remind people that the insurance against rental loss barely covers anything.

                • tajid on 27/06/2023 - 16:01

                  @Bob Svargis: Sorry, I meant did you get any money out of the tenant after they left? Could you have?

                  I'm at the stage where sheriff is involved this week but I am 3 months out of pocket now.

                  • Bob Svargis on 27/06/2023 - 16:51
                    +1

                    @tajid: No, nothing. I possibly could have chased them down through civil means I guess, but I suspect that based on the type of people they were, I'd have ended up with nothing anyway. It's really difficult. In fact the only thing I could have done, would be to store their contents in a storage unit and I could offset the cost of storage against the value of their items - but you can't use that to offset unpaid rent. So I was SOL (S**t Outta Luck).

                    Once I moved in, we received ongoing correspondence for a year or two relating to:
                    - Unpaid credit cards
                    - Debt collectors
                    - Foxtel and Optus (they got both… after not paying for one and having it cancelled, they got the other)
                    - A week after I took the house back, a rather scary looking chap showing up at the door wanting to know when his debt was going to be paid, and that he was going to take the guy's motorbike and/or car which he left in my front yard. Who also mentioned that the tenant was a heroin user (I'm not sure whether I believed that…) but in either event the tenant's partner wasn't of the best character.

                    This is why it's so important to have a good agent who uses the bad tenant database and thoroughly vets applications. Or do it yourself, but be very tough and shrewd.

  • Marcsie on 24/06/2023 - 16:12
    +4

    You learned a hard lesson,always use an agent to manage your rental property,all fee will be tax deductible anyway,why bother to put yourself through this stress and hassles ?

  • Mythreesons on 24/06/2023 - 17:21
    +4

    Sounds like you have been more than fair with them. Get an eviction notice and pay for it to be served by a sheriff (I think that’s what they are called). Good luck, there is no excuse to not be paying any rent at all.

    • Bob Svargis on 24/06/2023 - 18:38
      +2

      Correct, hopefully the ACAT will grant an eviction order, then you go and book the Sheriff to kick them out.

    • Extreme on 25/06/2023 - 10:40
      +1

      Using an agent doesn’t necessarily prevent this situation from occurring.

      Good agents will help you through the process. Bad agents will try and side with the tenant making the problem worse.

      There’s nothing stopping the OP engaging an agent now to help them through the process.

      • MITM on 27/06/2023 - 14:10
        +2

        ..especially if the agent gets the gig going forward. Almost like "try before you buy". Another thing to note is an agent can place a useless tenant on TICA after the event.

  • SpainKing on 24/06/2023 - 19:05
    +11

    That Protractor individual has been quite insufferable in this thread

    • Bob Svargis on 24/06/2023 - 19:10
      +6

      Totally. I bet s/he wouldn't have people staying at his/her own house for free. His/her attitude is totally sickening and is basically excusing the tenants for being thieves. S/he has even been so stupid as to make comments about the OP's trip to Ibiza being deferred. Stereotyping much???

    • notChatGPT on 24/06/2023 - 19:47
      +11

      I am starting to wonder if the person is my tenant 😉

  • ShannonN on 24/06/2023 - 20:45
    -1

    best way to get the tenants to talk is to go to the house and let them know you are the landlord take a cop along . and remove both the front and back door to the premises. they'll talk real quick

    • I like freestuff on 26/06/2023 - 11:00
      +1

      Cop can’t and won’t do that especially if there is a rental contract in place.

      • MITM on 27/06/2023 - 14:13

        Go to the door, call cops saying tenant has a knife - street will be in lock down before you know it. Cops only turn up after an incident - not to prevent one.

    • Extreme on 25/06/2023 - 10:44
      +4

      Can I move in with you for free?

    • infinite on 25/06/2023 - 18:02
      +2

      How many homeless people are you currently letting live with you for free, at your expense ?

      • serpserpserp on 25/06/2023 - 22:49
        -2

        3 unemployed people live with me at my expense (1 recently started working again).

        How about you?

        • OzzyOzbourne on 25/06/2023 - 23:06
          +9

          Your kids and partner?

        • infinite on 26/06/2023 - 16:29
          +2

          Kids and wife don't count. There an on-going expense you signed up for.

      • serpserpserp on 26/06/2023 - 18:53
        -3

        So how many living at your house for free?

  • fusion17 on 25/06/2023 - 00:04
    +7

    As with everything else

    Good tenants have too little rights
    Bad tenants have too many rights

    Agent or not, it's difficult to get people like these out. You will be palmed off from strata, police, agents etc.
    I think after Covid the law is more helpful to bad tenants than good ones

    • Extreme on 25/06/2023 - 10:49
      +2

      As a landlord, I’m all for improving rights for good tenants, such as longer leases etc etc, so long as the trade off is better protections for landlords from shîtbag tenants.

      Maybe a quicker process to evict non paying/bad tenants. Maybe larger bonds? Maybe a simpler process to garnish wages/centrelink payments in the event of non payment.

      I’m of the opinion that rental tenancy laws need to be balanced. If tenancy laws are lip sided towards tenants(which in some aspects they already are), then what occurs is investors decide property investment isn’t for them. As such it contributes towards rental shortages, resulting in higher rents.

      • fusion17 on 25/06/2023 - 13:20
        +1

        Haha, but alot of people who argue against landlords don't see that making it even harder for renters.

        I was literally in this situation 7 yrs ago. Renting in inner west, owner wanted to sell and offered it to me off market at a good price. I wasn't ready so i had to look for another place to rent.

        What do all the loonies think will happen if they force many of the landlords to sell? Do they think the renters will magically be able to buy them?
        Don't get me wrong I don't think owners with multiple houses should be getting taxpayry assistance either.

        • Extreme on 25/06/2023 - 17:45
          +3

          A lot of people don’t quite understand the tax incentives for property tax investment properly.

          The reality is, negative gearing on property is the same as other investment options. It’s just far more prevalent in property investment due to such low returns.

          Taking away some of those incentives would again make landlords decide to sell up, putting those tenants who have no choice to rent in an even worse situation.

          People also forget that owners who own multiple properties above a certain value are subjected to an additional tax, called land tax.

  • nujee on 25/06/2023 - 06:31
    +9

    Sheesh this thread has turned into Rent providers vs renters pretty quickly. As someone who provides a property to rent I have a few points to add to this discussion:

    1. OP you do not go into a business without properly protecting yourself. Sorry be self managing works in very few scenarios and the $$ saved aren’t worth it when something goes wrong

    2. I hope you have LL insurance- again stepping into a business with no proper protection is asking for it

    3. To the people calling the tenant a thief etc… We really don’t have enough information to make any further assessments here so I’d lay off the moral judgements

    4. Providing examples of removing someone’s electricity etc is a pretty good way of shooting yourself in the foot and again highlightes examples of where people who have little understanding of the process jump in and buy an asset they have little knowledge of knowing how to manage

    5. To the renters advocates- you guys need to look at how much the cost of maintaining a house including repayments has gone up in the last 5 years vs cost of rent. Spoiler- it’s not even close. Most residential properties run on thin yields which means the promoters are subsidising sometimes housing even after rent and tax breaks. That doesn’t make the rental providers heroes and charities but it doesn’t make them slumlords and atms either.

    6. Rent providers are needed: renting allows for mobility of the population to areas where they are needed for a proof of time. It’s a vital cog of the economy

    7. Constantly bashing LL’s when there is already signs of a rental shortage and increased migration is pretty daft. I get it, politics of envy and talk poppy syndrome are embedded in the media and political narrative but don’t let these agenda based faceless corporations and politicians who are simply focused with getting re-elected leads you astray. The issues have been created by the government mismanagement and they are pitching people against each other so that we are all distracted and no one pays attention that the pollies have dropped the ball hard.

    8. We human’s have a remarkable gift of being able to communicate- we need to use it more. Obviously I don’t know the full extent of the situation but assuming the op’s version LSDs true- not communicating back even through the use of a proxy like legal aid etc is poor form.

    • Techie4066 on 25/06/2023 - 15:24
      +1

      Point #7, are you so naive to think that the uber-rich with property portfolios aren't laughing their way to the bank? Even landlords with their own property + one investment are in aggregate taking a big slice of the housing pool for their financial gain while the working poor and millenials/Gen Z in particular suffer, both directly and through downstream effects. This isn't about maintaining social harmony for the sake of 'doing business', it boils down to a bigger picture of justifiable class warfare over the human right to shelter. And yes, pollies need to clean up their act asap before things spiral - but the solutions shouldn't be limited to increasing supply and scrapping tax breaks.

      • nujee on 25/06/2023 - 16:35
        +3

        So what’s the solution? Punish anyone who works hard and builds wealth till we are all poor? Don’t let anyone rise up? Last time I booked we live in a capitalist society.

        • Techie4066 on 25/06/2023 - 16:44

          Capitalism is not about working hard for the uber-wealthy, it's about gaming the system and exploitation. Although social democracies do it better by suppressing inequality within their own borders (not examining their use of foreign labour). We see how "well" capitalism works for the rich when largely unabated in the US, I would never move there.

    • ihbh on 25/06/2023 - 19:50
      +1
      1. I hope you have LL insurance- again stepping into a business with no proper protection is asking for it

      Experienced investors, especially those with large portfolios, don't use LL insurance. They self-insure and avoid as much as possible the risky tenants.

      Building insurance, definitely.

    • dogboy on 26/06/2023 - 10:11
      +3

      Renters don't seem to understand the costs involved in having a rental property. Plan for ~$2k/year LL insurance, ~$1.3k/quarter for rates, repairs/maintenance costs, yearly smoke alarm checks and REA fees. Most years my property costs >$10k to maintain. That is usually ~half the total rent paid in a year. Then when you consider I am repaying a mortgage on the property then you can see that the rent doesn't even cover the repayments with the interest rates going through the roof. Renters then have the audacity to turn around and attack LLs thinking they are rich b@stards smoking their cigars and counting their money at the expense of the poor renters. It is mind boggling. Saying that, I think there should be laws in place to make it illegal to own more than 3 properties in this country. That is where the greed and exploitation seem to start.

      • nujee on 27/06/2023 - 11:34

        Yup. Most people are out of touch and get the pitchforks at the ready. The easy answer is why do they do it- dont and it will make houses cheaper for all of us.

        2 things:

        1. no it wont- immigration is pretty strong and the value of the property will keep going up- if people could have afforded to purchase they would have by now
        2. Some people will always rent and there are houses needed- successive govts have dropped the ball on managing supply repeatedly and if you think the rental vacancy and issues are bad now- wait till the abused LL's drop out of the market.
      • Extreme on 28/06/2023 - 08:23

        One of the issues with limiting the number of properties one can own is it just means landlords sell off cheaper properties in lower socioeconomic areas and buy properties that have higher values in more desirable areas to make more profit.

        Those lower socioeconomic areas will likely suffer from rental shortages as a result. Meaning those at the bottom continue to suffer the most.

  • AN Other on 25/06/2023 - 11:05
    +10

    The main thing to remember here is it's not your job as a landlord to subside the tenant. We had tenants who were constantly skipping monthly payments (allegedly waiting for some money to be paid to them) and offering to make it up next month. At first we were a bit wishy washy and sympathetic, putting ourselves in their shoes and trying to help them out. But you're on a hiding to nothing doing this. All it does is encourage them to keep doing it. After a couple of times doing this we suddenly had this realisation "what the f*** are we doing here? Every month we're effectively lending them thousands of dollars!". After that we went back to them and said never again; if you're short of money you need to borrow it from someone else. If you can't, that's not my problem.

    We kicked them out in the end. A big lesson for us; never fall for anyone's sob story.

    • Yola on 25/06/2023 - 14:15
      +1

      If you allow tenants to get too far behind in the rent it may become worthwhile for them to move out without paying.

      • gromit on 25/06/2023 - 15:01
        +6

        If you have tenants getting behind in rent the best possible thing is get them out as soon as possible. The situation is unlikely to improve and yes sometimes that means you lose money, but a bad tenant is a huge liability, cut your losses and run.

        • AN Other on 26/06/2023 - 13:23
          +1

          Agreed. Any normal person prioritises their rent or mortgage over every other bill. If not then that's a definite red flag that something is not right.

  • Essigee on 25/06/2023 - 15:26
    +7

    Our tenants in Qld stopped paying rent. QCAT (tribunal) kept on giving them chances, as they would pay just enough to void the rent arrears breach, so technically they were good, but they were still in debt!

    Didn’t renew their lease due to selling, 2+ months in arrears in rent by the time their lease was up. They trashed the property - holes in walls, ripped fly screens, pulled out light switches, smoke alarms gone, smashed a concrete panel… I could go on.

    Sadly, it seems once they’ve lost their bond due to not paying rent, they didn’t see much point in leaving the property in a decent condition.

    OP, hopefully you have LL insurance and the tenants just leave your property in an OK condition.. ours was being overseen by an agent (not a very good one), and this still happened.

    • dbmitch on 26/06/2023 - 19:22

      really thought they were gonna get their bond back till the very end? talk about optimistic

    • nujee on 25/06/2023 - 16:37
      +4

      Plenty of supporters for the non paying renter as well, but well done on contributing nothing constructive to the debate.

    • spc12go on 27/06/2023 - 00:12
      -1

      Wow you got a detachable ass maybe you should see a doctor first before commenting here

  • Dack Smith on 25/06/2023 - 17:47
    -1

    Well the tenant owns the house now

    There is nothing you can do

    • notChatGPT on 25/06/2023 - 20:20
      +10

      i know mate..was readying the paperwork for transfer of ownership to them, but then realised if they cant pay the rent how will they pay the stamp duty

  • UFO on 25/06/2023 - 23:25
    +11

    Well this thread hasn't failed to disappoint!

    I only have 1 investment property, but this whole thread has fueled me to get as many more as possible! It's going to give me so much pleasure to cause additional butthurt to all these 'renters' in this thread. You should be ashamed of yourselves! Supporting a tenant who refuses to pay or even communicate with the landlord? Get stuffed.

    OP, please make sure you post an update. These tenants of yours will never get another investment property again after ACAT finishes with them!
    Not a leg for them to stand on. You'll be awarded lost rent and additional costs, plus and you'll get to watch the sheriff escort them out of the property. Happy days ahead for you, don't let wastes of oxygen like this stress you out. They'll get theirs soon enough, you have the law on your side.

    Try and get an agent to manage the property from now on… as in mid dispute. Hopefully in signing them up straight away they can enter these pathetic losers on every blacklist database in Australia. Prevent them from getting another property- ever! You'll help out other landlords, and give an extra present to these lowlifes. Find an agent now who'll help and they'll win your business long term.

  • echelon6 on 26/06/2023 - 09:29
    +4

    Lesson learned. Landlording requires tight management. As soon as any tenant is even a few days unpaid, my PM is instructed to send out the breach notice as a formality to start the clock, because the law is so protective of the tenant we can't waste a single moment. 99% of the time they pay up. You simply can't leave it and just listen to excuses.

  • dogboy on 26/06/2023 - 09:59
    +6

    Not enough downvotes for the clueless clowns on this thread…

    • I like freestuff on 26/06/2023 - 11:01
      +5

      Was just thinking this thread has used up everyone’s down vote allocations.

      • Yola on 26/06/2023 - 11:03
        +5

        Yes, 3 days worth.

    • AN Other on 26/06/2023 - 13:26

      Lots of people who think they're Chopper Read and can do whatever they like as a landlord. Try explaining to the police why you've come round and ripped the doors off someone's rental home, or pulled out the fuse box. It's ridiculous.

      • Extreme on 27/06/2023 - 14:30

        Sounds like a civil matter to me….

  • trapper on 26/06/2023 - 11:49
    +4

    You should have started the process of getting them evicted as soon as the rent was a week late.

    Now the already owe you thousands of dollars and have very little incentive to pay anything during the time it takes to get rid of them.

    • notChatGPT on 26/06/2023 - 12:31
      +4

      I agree.

      I was trying to be as accommodating as I can and erred on the side of being too trusting.

      Lesson learnt.

      • MITM on 27/06/2023 - 14:28
        +2

        Kindness is often mistaken for weakness. Remember in business, it's not personal, it's just business.

  • ldq on 26/06/2023 - 21:16
    -2

    You can report your tenant to AGSVA, I've heard everyone in Canberra holds a government clearance.

  • awdavgds on 27/06/2023 - 17:26
    -5

    I love how owners claim that if the rent isn't covering 100% of the mortgage on the house that they are "out of pocket". LOL! Even if its 50% less rent than what the mortgage payments are, someone else is still paying for HALF your house. You basically get HALF a house for free! But tyically owners are on average paying around 15-20% more on their mortgage than what they collect in rent. Geez! I wish someone would pay for 80 to 85% of my house!

    • baldur on 27/06/2023 - 21:38

      why is not possible for to buy a house?

      • awdavgds on 28/06/2023 - 21:36

        who ? me ? I have a house what you on about?

    • Extreme on 28/06/2023 - 08:33

      You’re really ignoring the facts and are rather naive I’m afraid.

      When people talk wether a property is positive or negative geared, they’re excluding paying down the loan as it’s not a tax deductible expense.

      I can’t talk for all, but in my situation my investment property loans are all interest only. The rent doesn’t cover all expenses(including interest), let alone going towards paying the house off.

      The mindset of renters paying off a landlords house are generally wrong.

    • Ughhh on 28/06/2023 - 19:49
      +1

      Not a home owner? Go be one if it's as easy as you say it ifs.

      • awdavgds on 28/06/2023 - 21:30

        yep own a home have a mortgage in fact. Not sure whats not easy about it. We're talking about rental properties here so not sure the relevance of your comment. However prelimiary sums on a 2nd property for us looks like this roughly…..weekly mortgage repayments on a 3 bedroom unit in Country vic….$650 per week @ current interest rates. Rental on this unit is yielding $480 per week. With fees, taxes, etc we've been advised we'd be another $120 a week out of that $480 leaving $360 toward the mortgage. So thats over 50% someone else is paying for us to eventually own a 2nd property. If values go up then even better.

        • Ughhh on 30/06/2023 - 06:39

          Oh, You didn't or need to have a deposit when purchasing a house?

          Not sure whats not easy about it.

          So there's really no good excuse why renters are complaining and paying huge amounts when they could buy their own. I see.

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