Saw this on news.com.au ‘Worse than passive smoking’: Warning about gas stoves and was wondering what the general consensus was.
Due to lease renewal soon and thinking whether I should consider a hotplate or induction cooktop place!
Are Gas Stove Tops Cancerous?
RickyPoontang on 23/06/2023 - 09:54
Last edited 23/06/2023 - 10:03 by 1 other user
Last edited 23/06/2023 - 10:03 by 1 other user
Comments
How is gas better than induction?
There is a HUGE risk with gas if you have no idea about the dangers of using gas. Saying that there is also a HUGE risk with electricity if you have not idea about the dangers of being electrocuted.
Any energy source you use to cook with has risks and if you know about the risks then one fuel source is no worse than the others.
At home your worst chance of getting cancer from your house or something in the house by either the fumes from cheap foam that occur or from renovations due to asbestos.
Neither of these are a HUGE risk.
They incorporate safety mechanisms in the design that enable even an idiot to use them safely.
You mentioned Trump supporters. Well done. Arguement is now over.
Up to date with vaccines yet?
I had my ivermectin dose yesterday
I'm confused - you state this study is alarmist bs to enable government interference
Then you shit on people against vaccines, who would share your views above ie anti gov interference and propaganda
Then you pull Trump into this? The only relevance I can think is that he was pro vaccine, and he saw the natural gas policy with Merkel/EU and Russia years before it unfolded
Then you (correctly) state that walking in traffic is most dangerous for carcinogens (similar approach to how anti vaxxers said covid is not deadly to most young and healthy people, stop fretting!)You're not straddling the fence, you're zig zagging over it! I think you have some wires crossed
Ok so seems like mixed reviews.
Causation, or correlation? California has some pretty terrible air quality from air pollution anyway, so that could also be a cause of these conditions.
Gas in terms of cooktops, with regard to hobs, is by far the vast majority of cook tops compared with electric. If gas was a significant contributor to various cancers then I suspect there would be far more instances of these.
Loads of studies have various claims but just aren’t entirely supported because they reached conclusions based on suspect data sets. I’m not saying that this study is outright wrong, but this is a massive claim that doesn’t seem to be correlate to real world experiences. It could be that those who were involved in the study also smoked themselves, lived with smokers, worked in vocations or locations where there was a high instance of smokers etc.
I wouldn’t be swapping out a gas stove based on this study alone. That it comes from news.com.au is also not encouraging.
Just my thoughts anyway.
People will believe anything these days. God you people are gullible
Next level. More like wilfully ignorant.
Everything is bad anyways…. jogging in a city can be considered dangerous due to pollution too… but in this case,… why have a gas connection anyways? Induction cooking is heaps and heaps better, have to own one to really know that, especially when you often leave pans on high accidentally or boil or burn things… then you won't ever go back from Induction.
When i build my home 7 years ago i only got gas as it was regarded as important. I have since changed appliances and gone solar, and no more gas/electric bills at all - 3 years now!!! Why pay daily supply charges for electricity and gas? Gas is so expensive now too…. there is always the gas BBQ as well.
News dot com is about as reliable a source for real news as A Current Affair. They're all owned by a couple of people programming you to think what the grubberment tells them to.
They're trying to get EVERYONE onto electric, so they can CONTROL you via everyone's smart meter. They can't interfere if you've got gas bottles or a BBQ.
😁There's legitimately been instances of people using Google Nest where they lost control of their thermostat during a "low electricity availability period"!
As a renter, definitely go for induction - if you can find it, because it's superior to gas. The applicances don't yet seem to be as reliable as gas cooktops but I'm sure this can't be far away. The thing I like about gas is the ability to correlate flame size with burner output, but I'm sure I can adapt to induction.
Agreed, induction is great.
According to media, everything gives you cancer. End of.
"analysed stoves in 87 homes across California and Colorado"
california estimated population of 39.2 million
colorado estimated population of 5.8 millionselective much?
Damn I missed that 🤣🤣
Good point!that said, it's always good to have good ventilation in any room that has combustion due to reasons like carbon monoxide build up, especially small rooms.
eg. try using a portable gas stove in a car for a prolonged time without any windows cracked open, good luck.
Since when did news.com.au become a news website? It's a clickbait tabloid. I wouldn't trust a single word published on this website.
Australia's last bastion of genuine journalistic integrity burnt out sometime in the late 90's (at the ABC/SBS). We haven't been served by ANY decent media in decades.
The media has been acting with impunity for a long time, by siting these principles:
"Freedom of press/speech." - used to justify not fact checking and spreading self-interest opinions
"People has a right to know" - used to overturn privacy and judicial process; to accentuate garbage tabloid news to drive self interest; and ignore the fact that people don't actually want to know about many things - it increases overall stress and forces acceptance of poorly thought out opinions
"We present, you decide" - neglecting to mention what they present might not be factual or complete, so the decision made from the information is secretly shaped by what is selectively presented
Yes, in some cases, but in others they do the opposite of these things, and I think too many people are completely unaware of media gag orders and the like which means in many cases people aren't being told the truth about matters, by order of the judiciary and government themselves.
The largest areas of media neglect are the issues the 3 major parties (Green, Labor and Liberal), and both the public and commercial broadcasters agree on. Which just happened to be the major areas that most affect the health and wellbeing and future of the population (e.g. foreign ownership, demographic change & migration, financial system operation). We are sold down the river by collusion, cowardice and ignorance.
A lot of items treated as factual and settled by the media, are anything but.
Yes
Wake up NPC! This isn't even a real news site, take everything with a grain of salt.
Burning methane produces carbon dioxide and water. CO2 is evil according to the eco-nazis. That is why they are vilifying natural gas. Just as people in Australia have an irrational fear of radioactivity/nuclear power, the climate cultists want to instill terror of natural gas into people.
Cooking using natural gas is safer than doing for a drive in your automobile.
You're partly right. CO2 is what comes from burning methane, and is a greenhouse gas. However methane itself is a much worse greenhouse gas. The release of methane into the air throughout the process of getting it out of the ground and to your stove is a bigger environmental problem than what comes from you cooking with it.
We'd probably be better off capturing methane that is a byproduct of other processes (farming, landfills, waste water). That way burning it for cooking would actually be a net positive environmentally and you get to cook on a flame, which just feels better.
I think the media scare campaign between the products is more cancerous
Also we arnt america, this is an american right wing media scare campaign, can we get our own material plz
Lot of anti-science crazies on Ozbargain, huh
All I know is that European governments are trying to ban gas in new house builds, so I am inclined to do the OPPOSITE of their policies.
I think the elites hate that we're not feudal serfs and our quality of life is too high and only the elites should be using resources
yes, whatever news.com says is 100% true, always believe them.
end sarcasm .I agree that news.com.au is generally rubbish, but there has been a lot of research lately about the problems with gas cooking. The Global Cooksafe Coalition launched last year to help educate people away from gas cooking for both health and environmental reasons. As just one example they state in their homepage states: "Gas is the dominant cooking fuel globally. But children living in homes with gas cooking have a 42 percent increased risk of having current asthma."
I've lived with gas and electric cooktops, and don't see that gas is worth it.
https://cooksafecoalition.org/fact-sheets/
Front groups, front groups, & more front groups. Add some well meaning chefs & restaurant owners as "ambassadors" & you have the ability to influence & guide "green" initiatives.
Just look at their founding "members & partners'. One is the US Green Building Council: https://www.usgbc.org/
All sounds good & positive right? Who are USGBC members? Thousands of corporate entities including Raytheon! & Bank of America!All these councils, associations, foundations, alliances, partnerships are just fronts for financial/economic/corporate/government interests.
The USGBC is a not for profit organisation whose mission is "to transform how buildings and communities are designed, built and operated, enabling an environmentally and socially responsible, healthy, and prosperous environment that improves the quality of life."
I get that there's little trust in institutions, but claiming "all councils are fronts" is inaccurate generally, and especially in this context.I get that there's little trust in institutions
You're talking about an organization that lists as its platinum members such corporations as Honeywell (one of the biggest synthetic refrigerant manufacturers on the planet & responsible for more environmental damage than one can imagine - all of these corporations have "sustainability" sections on their websites touting "next gen" solutions), Meta, Colgate/Palmolive, global property development & management firms like Hines, Infosys, among many others. All global corporations worth trillions. They all support initiatives that further their own interests.
Public relations for the masses: "to transform how buildings and communities are designed, built and operated, enabling an environmentally and socially responsible, healthy, and prosperous environment that improves the quality of life."
@mrdean: Taking Honeywell as an example: they and others are working to deliver a new generation of refrigerants that are cost effective and less detrimental to the environment.
https://www.honeywell-refrigerants.com/europe/product/tag/al…
Refrigerants aren't great, but the alternatives of gas for heating or no cooling at all are arguably worse. There was an article a few years ago about how the phasing out of older (cheaper but environmentally worse) refrigerants was causing a substantial increase in the cost of air conditioning (AC) systems; net win for the environment, but at the cost of locking out people who desperately needed AC and could subsequently not afford it. My point is: they are complex issues and if there was an easy solution we would have done it already. Back to the original topic: The science says indoor gas use for cooking isn't great; let's do better.My point is: they are complex issues and if there was an easy solution we would have done it already.
No, this is where the manipulation lies. The corporations have zero interest in solving anything. Unfortunately, people believe them.
You want energy solutions? Look at PJK's free energy site & discover methods that corporations have no interest in pursuing, but have an interest in suppressing.
Rossi's ecat-sk is another example - using the laws of physics in a different way - implosion rather than explosion. But Rossi has been a target for a long time, & he's been "debunked" by so called skeptics & embroiled in nasty situations even by our own Dick Smith.
Solutions to every problem exist, but they are most certainly not going to come from corporations like Honeywell.
Could pants be causing death? Everyone who has ever worn pant have died, or will die! There's conclusive evidence linking the habit of wearing pants to eventual death.
Don't get me started on shirts.
Lots of people on here who can't cope with change and scientific revision, but logically, setting fuel on fire and then inhaling the breakdown products is unlikely to be a good idea. We switched to a cheap plug-in induction cooktop from Ikea and haven't looked back. Kids asthma settled right down too.
Secondly, induction cooktops are so much faster to heat up and boil water/cook food that it's a no brainer anyway. Make sure you get a good one though.
It's not a huge study but it certainly points towards gas being pretty bad for health. Obviously anything that puts particulates or chemicals into the air in your home is not a great thing. How not great is yet to be seen.
I wonder what's worse for our health: burning wood or gas, or the myriad plastics and resins that off-gas and/or release plastic particles for a couple of decades (e.g. linoleum, chipboard and mdf, carpet, many of our clothes and "linens", etc.)
Not applicable to modern Australian homes as they all have very high natural ventilation rate. Our clever builders have thought of this already.
You are talking about the gaps right 😅
Yeah LOL. The genesis of these concerns is the fact that modern US/European homes have very few air changes per hour. This unfortunately eliminates the ability of passive ventilation to clear out potentially harmful gases. In their foresight, Australian builders leave a lot of gaps everywhere.
They do this first in America and then import it here. Executing behavioural modification on the masses through traditional and social media platforms.
An outdoor fire is pretty well ventilated.
Burning anything inside needs ventilation.
Gas for heating or cooling needs regulation. For leaks and for ventilation.
This is especially true for countries like Australia which have a socialised health system as we all pay to keep people well.
This landlord wants to improve their property but this sub is like no dont improve things
It's not an improvement, it's just a cost that will be passed onto the tenant.
Isn't that all improvements
I would be more worried about PFAS being in disposable food packaging that state governments are making everyone use instead of plastic.
Fear mongering. Any combustion should occur with ventilation. Including candles
Head in the sand.
I'm not sure any of us are scientists, let alone experts in this field, but the findings of the researchers was:
We found that 12.7% (95% CI = 6.3–19.3%) of current childhood asthma in the US is attributable to gas stove use (Figure 1). At the state level, the proportion of childhood asthma that could be theoretically prevented if gas stove use was not present (e.g., state-specific PAFs) varied. Illinois experiences the highest burden (21.1%), followed by California (20.1%), New York (18.8%), Massachusetts (15.4%), and Pennsylvania (13.5%). Texas, Colorado, and Ohio all experience burdens around 10%. Florida experiences the lowest burden (3%). The state-level PAFs differ due to varying exposure to gas stoves among children. In Illinois, for example, approximately 79.1% of households with children cook with gas, whereas in Florida, the figure is only 9.1%. States with a higher percentage of children living in households with gas stoves have higher proportions of current childhood asthma attributable to gas stove usage.
You can doubt it or believe it, but it doesn't hurt to keep it in mind. As has been mentioned earlier I'm sure it's a multifaceted issue. Gas stoves aren't the only thing responsible for children developing asthma. But if people with much more knowledge on the topic than me say something like this, which is entirely plausible, it's worth at least considering - rather than deciding immediately that I know better than this team of researchers.
We found that 12.7% (95% CI = 6.3–19.3%) of current childhood asthma in the US is attributable to gas stove use
This should have been a red flag big and obvious enough for anyone at that stage of reading the report to put it in the bin and walk away.
As noted, you’re not a scientist. You don’t have the appropriate skillset to interpret this other than to take the researchers at face value, nor do you have the background knowledge to judge whether these findings (if sound) are applicable to the Australian context. Take your own advice.
Because I don't have the appropriate skillset to interpret this other than to take the researchers at face value, are you implying I should doubt their findings? If I'm lacking the appropriate skillset to interpret this data, surely I'm lacking the appropriate skillset to dismiss this data as well. The logical conclusion being at least listening to and considering their findings.
The responses I've read on this post serve as evidence that our education system has failed by a fair margin.
Many of the chemicals used to precipitate gas from coal seams are lethally poisonous, while their application and use is unknown and remains lightly, if at all, regulated.
Even regulation around requirements for domestic flues (for both gas and wood combustion) is insufficient by local or international standards. Anything but modern. All descend from the assumption that this gas is 'natural gas', and is somehow clean. Natural gas is nothing like what is sucked out of the ground after we fracture and hydraulically inject a coal seam, and there is little regulation covering the effects on users in homes, or the pollution of deeper groundwater through drilling or fracturing operations. All government really regulates is handling of these substances above the ground- and in many cases it doesn't even know what is used.
Even 'unfracked' gas extracted from subterranean coal seams contains many toxic chemicals, let alone the many by-products from any reactive processes created under the ground. None is checked to a standard that monitors for much of what it might contain. Little if anything transparently verifies its composition to check it is appropriate for use in unflued domestic purposes. Whilst accepting successive donations from the gas companies, Oz government has not required material protections around the composition of domestic supply. Yet we should check the gas extracted from each well head, and additionally for chemicals specific to that area, before too much can make its way to the main supply system.
Similarly, scientific understanding around the use of these gases in environments where its combusted by-products are inhaled is not funded, and wat little there is remains hopelessly out of date. For decades this has been the case while this gas has made its way into homes containing young children, animals, pregnant women… and worse, we know that anything with lungs or even gills is susceptible to all kinds of material effects from carcinogens like these.
So best thing for the consumer to do in the face of all this uncertainty and risk is to use solar power to heat and cook. After all, it is free whilst the sun is up, and relatively inexpensive to install- assuming you have enough roof area to be able to set it up.
Sounds all nice but with socialism we need to cut down on longevity as there are not enough kids to pay for prolonged age care!
No need to be so dark.
Our glorious zero cost credit and market economies have enduced synthetic growth in everything from CDOs to Grain. Starvation and climate change is putting an end to aged care issues before they take hold.
Absolute crap! Just trying to scare you to you switch to electric which is absurd.
China and India must be laughing at us 24/7
They want your only source of energy to be electicity.
You will later see controlled blackouts (load shedding) like now are standard fare in South Africa. Further, what can your smart meter actually do?
New aircons have the DRED system, used to switch off your heating or cooling or limit it whenever they like.Don't be a patsie, wake up to them !!
You might be on to something. Is it Queensland or NSW where car chargers over 7kw have to be networked so the energy companies can turn them off? Electricity use in our houses is much more easier for corporations and government to control than gas.
That's nothing.
In QLD, they allow councils to cancel your drivers license if your late paying a council dog registration fee. If your pet dies, the registration fee is still due regardless, until you pay a fee to cancel the active registration. If you fail to pay the late fee for that on-going registration of your now dead dog, the council will have your drivers license cancelled.
Imagine the level of pure tard your government has to be, to allow local councils the power to cancel a drivers license over >$75 late library fees and dog registrations.
Pirgozhin Wagner told our Pluck-zuck to cancel my license!
Well we got some Welcamp whatever conc camp and that was not cheap.
And council suck girl is now blame shifting on youtube.
What crime did I commit? Wheeled a disabled person across the street on a Sunday having all 5 permits prepaid. Then Zuck brought in permit number 6 just to satisfy her lavish spending!
DRED is optional. The energy provider pays you to install it. Many people disable it afterwards too.
These things usually start as optional with carrot, stick comes later for those holdouts. Remember the Trojan horse was a gift.
lol, is that what the media is peddling now?
They need to be more specific - half the country runs natural gas, the other propane.
Which is it?
btw, stuff like this is good. Take note of which media outlets have the story and block them. I've blocked half the Internet and its the utopia it was always meant to be.
"Across 87 homes in California and Colorado, natural gas and propane combustion emitted detectable and repeatable levels of benzene that in some homes raised indoor benzene concentrations above well-established health benchmarks."
It's not from the media, it's from https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.2c09289
Reading the results, it is both propane and natural gas.The media is just how the OP came to discover it.
LOL,
It's a study of 87 homes in a combined population of 45 million people, with no proper control or even context for where & how the measurements took place.
Talk about a completely useless and pointless study.
The test was repeatable and performed with different burners. The different homes was mostly just to get a different distance to bedrooms and difference in circulation. It has no impact on the findings of benzene emitted from the burner. This can be repeated in a lab.
Natural gas wasn't as bad as propane. Heat and time makes a difference (as in more emission). It's notable that it is possible to keep it within safe limits if you use lower heat, shorter times or have better venting.
Venting is probably the most important as you would expect to ensure it doesn't stay in the home.@xsacha: You can refuse it, but don't impose mandates on others. Gas has been used for a long time, is essential for many businesses and has brought heat and comfort to many. Many things are toxic including paint fumes, fluoride in water, food additives etc etc. But they now focus on this. Appears not to be a coincidence.
The news is a business, it makes money by scaring people into clicking links.
Don't for one second think they have your best interests at heart.
My grandmother lived to 102 and had gas oven and gas stove. Her brother is still alive at 103 and also in an old house with gas stove and oven. Imagine the deaths we’d see if gas stoves were actually carcinogenic.
To be fair if you believe that 5G was going to nuke everyone. Then you’ll believe gas cooktops are cancerous.Did you read the story? It isn't saying using a gas cooker will kill you. Here are the key points:
They found that a cooktop burner on high or an oven set to 180C can raise the levels of benzene, a known carcinogen, in a house to above those of second-hand tobacco smoke.
Combustion of gas and propane from stoves may be a substantial benzene exposure pathway and can reduce indoor air quality.
Rob Jackson, senior author of the study, said “good ventilation” helped to reduce benzene exposure but “exhaust fans were often ineffective”
Neither the article, nor does the study, say "Using a gas stove will kill you". It concludes that using gas stoves increases the quantity of carcinogens in the air. That's not exactly rocket science. I'm sure it does. Lighting a match inside would also increase the quantity of carcinogens.
It's literally just information. You can do with it what you want - but it's not some huge conspiracy. Some people might keep it in mind when making choices to do with kitchen renovation. Some might not. Somebody arguing we need to ban gas stoves would be going over the top, but that's not what this article says.
It’s fear mongering. It’s not worse than passive smoke. So many factors involved. Like who uses a stove without a rangehood?
It's not fear mongering. It is likely pretty obvious but some people fail at critical reading.
The benzene is worse than passive smoke in the scenarios they show. Especially high heat. Especially gas ovens.
If you have proper ventilation it likely won't stop you living to 102.
If you don't have proper ventilation you may get cancer and die younger than otherwise.@xsacha: Nah, my grands wouldn’t have had proper ventilation when she was younger. If there was a link they’d have found it back then. I’m happy for you to be concerned about it though.
@Wasabi Ninja: So people who smoke cigarettes and live until they're 100 before dying in a car accident prove that cigarettes don't kill you — at least before you're 100?
@RolandWaites: Numbers game. We see lots of people living past 100. Most aren’t smokers. Most lived with gas appliances.
It’s okay, I’m happy for you to believe your little conspiracy.
See infinites post below.@Wasabi Ninja: Come on buddy, don't try and cop out like that. I'm not pushing a conspiracy here. You're the one saying your gran lived until she was 102 and that's proof that the scientists are wrong.
They might be wrong - but your anecdote doesn't do anything to prove it.
@RolandWaites: Just expressing my lack of concern. My genetics are intact and it’s not an issue for me. Feel free to worry that gas cooktops are killing you.
Did you read the study?
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.2c09289
They ran the test a grand total of 87 times in a population of 45 million people, without any proper control or even context for where & how the measurements took place.
It was completely and utterly pointless.
It was as scientifically useful as putting yourself in an air tight container to see if it will affect your oxygen level.
They are also starting to ban wood-fired pizza places in US citing carbon emissions.
A classic example of reading the headlines and not the story. There is no talk of banning wood-fired pizza ovens in America. There is talk of taking measures to reduce their output of carbon emissions. This is not the same. Consider a government imposing emissions limits on ICE cars. That is not a ban on ICE cars. Here is more information.
The New York City Department of Environmental Protection is reportedly drafting a rule that would require restaurants with brick and wood-fired ovens installed before 2016 to reduce their carbon emissions by up to 75%.
The new rules being drafted would require these restaurants to assess the practicality of installing an emission control device to reduce emissions by 75%.
The report says if the 75% reduction is not feasible or a control device is unable to be installed, the restaurant must reduce emissions by at least 25% or provide an explanation for why controls cannot be installed.
A city official said under 100 restaurants in New York City would be affected by the proposed rule, as initially reported by the New York Post.
Note the clear differences between this (reality) and what's been spewed by conservative America about it.
Is ACA gasligting us again?
Yes it may be slightly safer to use an induction cooktop over gas, but if you're only going to rent a place with an induction stove top, I'm afraid you'll be sleeping in your car for a while…
didn't know there were so many people that can read academic journal publications on OzB…
Unfortunately most people are of the school of thought that says if I don't like it, it isn't true.
People saying the news is scare mongering while at the same time the fossil fuel companies are the biggest lobbyist to push stories about how safe it is.
This reminds me of the case involving teflon and the propaganda around it being safe.
I always open a window or door when I run my gas stove.
Saw this on news.com.au
There lies your problem. Getting your news from one of Murdoch's dying outlets that is desparate for views with a record of unnecessary fear mongering. Grandmother cooks with gas 3 times a day, about to cross 100 this year, no cancer yet.
only upside to power over gas is cost save if you have solar on your house
No
Just part of the regular Agenda 2030… nothing to see here
I just bought an air pollution / particle level tester on amazon and tested. These are my findings:
Boiling water with the gas stove top for 20 minutes only raises temperature and humidity. No change to any of the things it's measuring (HCHO, TVOC, PM1.0, PM2.5, PM10) and no change to the "Air Pollusion Level".
Cooking with a frying pan and olive oil raises the TVOC and PM2.5, and move the air pollution from "Fresh" to "Fair".
I've decided to keep the gas stove top.
@czyk: phew - I thought you were gonna come back with all the carcinogenic ways that it is awful!
Yes, agree with everything you've written. It's definitely not wok friendly.