Is It Normal for a Sparky to List an Apprentice on a Tax Invoice?

John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 15:45
Last edited 24/05/2023 - 15:46 by 1 other user

Hi,

Just after some expert advice.

Is it normal for a sparky to list an apprentice on a tax invoice?

Long version

Live in a strata unit. Had water come out of a light fixture. Called a sparky, got billed the attached.

Extra questions:

  • Does that mean I'm somehow paying for an apprentice directly, even though I've not requested this? The apprentice didn't do anything apart from fetch some pliers from their vehicle that they left behind.

  • Does this seem like a reasonable amount to take a pendant light down?

https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/190487/103886/screensh…

TIA

Poll Options

  • 47
    Yes
  • 4
    No
Electrical & Electronics

Comments

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 24/05/2023 - 15:53
    +6

    I mean he could have just put labour x 1 @ price X, done.

    How long was the job?
    Was it a big pendant? 2 man job?
    Who was going to go to the servo to get a meat pie and a pack of darts during smoko?

    I think its relatively reasonable (not cheap, but not crazy) - thank god you didnt call the big blue van.

    • John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 15:55

      They were in and out in about 10 minutes. I could have probably done it myself if I watched a YouTube video. 🤷😂

      Sorry, I don't get the big blue van reference?

      • coffeeinmyveins on 24/05/2023 - 15:58
        +7

        They were in and out in about 10 minutes.

        What about:

        • Travel time
        • Equipment
        • Cost of acquiring the knowledge

        I could have probably done it myself if I watched a YouTube video. 🤷😂

        Cool, then why didn't you?

        Having said that, that price for what was a "10 minute job" seems a bit cheeky.

  • MS Paint on 24/05/2023 - 15:54
    +10

    Yes. I received an invoice for electrical work done which listed the sparky apprentice's labour.

    Problem was, my daughter knew the apprentice and he wasn't part of the team that did the job. I got a nice little rebate on that invoice when I challenged them.

    Classic tradies.

  • bhubb18 on 24/05/2023 - 15:58
    +9

    What a joke. I guess someone has to pay for the sparkies Ram

  • Seraphin7 on 24/05/2023 - 16:00
    +7

    If the apprentice was not listed, would that make you feel better?

    I'm not sure you're going to get any electrician to turn up to do anything for much less than the amount billed.

    • John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 16:01
      +2

      Ignorance is bliss I suppose. 😂

      I hate that tradies don't itemise stuff completely or properly. So dodgy.

      If the charge is reasonable, then I suppose that's all that matters, cheers.

      • GG57 on 24/05/2023 - 16:09
        +2

        The invoice seems to be itemised in that it describes the work undertaken. I'm not sure how much more detail you want?

        • John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 16:21
          +3

          Just talking in general as I've noticed it on other invoices, eg the plumber just listed two lines "labour and risk assessment" and "materials", I asked for further details.

          For this one it would be nice to see the actual Line amounts. Eg

          Service call = $100
          Tradesperson = $100
          Apprentice = $50

          • GG57 on 25/05/2023 - 09:38

            @John Kimble: I don't think that the line items you suggest would add any value to the invoice or your assessment of the work undertaken.
            The plumber appears to have undertaken the scope of work requested.

            • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 09:44

              @GG57: Well I when I questioned it, they said 4 hours of work (when it was 3 hours) and materials included pressure testing, moisture meter and Dye testing).

              Dye testing wasn't even completed that day and the moisture meter looked like this $50 one from Bunnings https://www.bunnings.com.au/crommelin-moisture-meter_p091107…

              Why am I paying for their equipment that they reuse on other jobs?! Makes no sense to me. I'm still waiting to hear back from the plumber on those issues.

              • GG57 on 25/05/2023 - 09:47

                @John Kimble: Did you not obtain an estimate (via the property management) before the plumber was engaged for the job?

                • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 09:52

                  @GG57: No, we just told them we are seeing water coming out of our kitchen light fixture and they said they will send a sparky and plumber.

                  • GG57 on 25/05/2023 - 09:55

                    @John Kimble: Ok, and the issue appears to be resolved.

                    If the body corporate has an issue with the costs incurred on its behalf by the property manager, that is another matter and can be addressed in a longer-term process.

                    • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 10:01

                      @GG57: I wouldn't say resolved, there's a lot more going on. Don't want to bore even more you with all the minor details…

      • Stewardo on 24/05/2023 - 17:34

        How much would you charge if it were your business?
        Knowing you have to pay fuel, tolls, vehicle costs, wages insurance, super, tax, marketing, parking, tools… etc

        • John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 17:38
          +3

          No idea, hence the point of the post and 2nd extra question.

          • Stewardo on 24/05/2023 - 17:51
            +1

            @John Kimble: Bill seems cheap to me, if it were $150 I think he’d struggle to break even.
            Dude is also living in Sydney which is expensive for everyone.

  • bemybubble on 24/05/2023 - 16:01
    +2

    Yes - quite normal. Let's you know that you're not getting charged qualified rates for an apprentice's work. Consider it a good thing

    • John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 16:02
      +1

      Apprentice didn't touch a thing in this instance.

      • bemybubble on 24/05/2023 - 16:03
        +4

        Interesting.

        Then i'd be focusing on this:

        Call out fee anywhere between $150-$200. $258 for the outcome is reasonable.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 24/05/2023 - 16:07
        +7

        what about:

        moral support
        spotting the boss-man on step ladder
        swiping right on boss mans tinder acc
        facilitate job completion via procurement of required tool from trade vechicle

  • JimB on 24/05/2023 - 16:11
    +2

    If it's a strata unit, would the body corp be paying for this?

    I would have just disconnected it myself until the water leak is repaired.

    • John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 16:22
      +2

      I think so, but I still would like to avoid paying overs or getting ripped off if I can help it regardless.

      • JimB on 24/05/2023 - 16:24

        Good point, just in case you won't be reimbursed.

        But sometimes you have to use the body corp's preferred tradies or at least notify them first.

        • John Kimble on 24/05/2023 - 16:28
          +1

          Yes, it was arranged via Strata Manager.

          • JimB on 24/05/2023 - 16:30
            +1

            @John Kimble: All good then.

            Overall, the charge is ok.

            Sometimes haven't an apprentice can save you money but not in this case.

            At least they're being transparent.

          • GG57 on 25/05/2023 - 09:40
            +1

            @John Kimble: If the work was arranged via the Strata Manager, with one of their preferred suppliers I assume, then it is for the body corporate to review and address if required.

  • AustriaBargain on 24/05/2023 - 16:27

    It's not like when you go to a teaching hospital and they ask if you are okay with seeing a student doctor.

  • pegaxs on 24/05/2023 - 16:33
    +2

    pliers are not going to fetch themselves from the truck…

    Would it have helped you sleep at night if he just wrote;

    Labour x 1.5h

    • SlickMick on 25/05/2023 - 08:04
      +1

      But it should have read

      Labour x 0.2
      Apprentice x 0.05

  • star-ggg on 24/05/2023 - 16:58
    +8

    I doubt it cost more for the "extra" apprentice. Looks like something they use to keep track of apprentice training hours and possibly type of jobs.

  • trustnoone on 24/05/2023 - 17:07
    +1

    Honestly sounds like a guy who runs his own business and he's trying to pad the invoice so people don't complain why he's charging what he's charging by listing out everything thats needed.

  • bobbified on 24/05/2023 - 18:18
    +1

    Probably itemised it like like that for tax purposes (on the rare occasion tradies pay tax!)

  • JimmyF on 24/05/2023 - 19:31
    +1

    Is it normal for a sparky to list an apprentice on a tax invoice?

    Yes if they bring one along.

    Does that mean I'm somehow paying for an apprentice directly, even though I've not requested this? The apprentice didn't do anything apart from fetch some pliers from their vehicle that they left behind.

    Well your bill is paying the apprentice wage in a round about way.

    Does this seem like a reasonable amount to take a pendant light down?

    Its not really a two man job, so not really reasonable to be billed for both, BUT looking at the total, paying ~$260 is about right to have someone come out and do 'something' even a 10 min job.

  • dtc on 24/05/2023 - 21:50
    +4

    I love how so many people are appalled by having to pay for an apprentice but are also appalled that the shortage of tradies means they can charge so much…

    • plmko on 24/05/2023 - 21:54
      +2

      It's also pretty funny how people think a professional doing a job in "about 10 minutes" is a rip-off but then gladly ignore they took a decade of training/experience to get there.

      The same people who are happy to spend hours out of their weekend to learn a job themselves when they shouldn't.

      • SlickMick on 25/05/2023 - 08:06
        +5

        Or on the other hand, OP just gave tradie the opportunity to teach his apprentice something so that one day he can charge exorbitant fees too.

        • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 09:16

          This is the way 😔

      • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 09:40

        I see what you're saying and understand all that in the background, but it's still hard to swallow on my end, having to pay $250 for the fixture to be taken down, and presumably $250 for a new one to be put back up. The fixture itself wasn't that much and they replacement would probably be only $100 (hopefully).

        So from my end having the removal/installation costing 2 or 3 times what the fixture costs just hurts me in my tight ass brain. 😂

    • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 09:36
      +2

      I just found it weird to be listed on the invoice, which is why I wanted to understand if it is standard practice, especially seeing as they didn't do anything.

      This seemed like a perfect job for an apprentice to actually do, very straight forward!

      I remember a few years back when we renovated our kitchen, almost everything was done, but they forgot to put on GPO in. So we asked them to come back, they sent two young lads! I was amazed, but understand they can start very young. I don't even see how they could have held their driver's licences that's how young they looked (I could be completely wrong)???

  • 2esc on 25/05/2023 - 09:06
    +2

    Total amount seems about right.

    I always try with trades to look around for another job or 2 getting the tradie here in the first bit is the most expensive part jobs after that are a lot cheaper.

    Theres usually some other job that does need doing.

  • skillet on 25/05/2023 - 09:17
    +3

    Sometimes they put details like this in the invoice is for their own reference.

  • bbinc on 25/05/2023 - 10:05
    +1

    Most sparkles and plumbers have minimum call out rates. The job cost him more than 10 minutes by the time he checked his truck, drove to you, parked, repacks truck, return to base etc etc. That’ why they have a minimum.
    So the water leak most likely came from another unit or some leak the strata is responsible for? And the strata manager called the sparkie. I would have asked the sparkie to invoice the strata manager.

    • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 10:07
      +1

      The plumber couldn't find any leak in pipes of the unit above. They spent hours testing. They have said it is most likely their bathroom waterproofing has failed.

      Yes they've both been invoiced to strata. I'm the treasurer, so have to approve the invoices 😂

      • GG57 on 25/05/2023 - 10:35

        They spent hours testing.

  • GG57 on 25/05/2023 - 10:55

    Out of interest, how many unit holders are there for the body corporate?

    • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 11:15

      Four units in the block

      • [Deactivated] on 25/05/2023 - 11:20

        Art deco?

        • John Kimble on 25/05/2023 - 11:30

          Yep

          • [Deactivated] on 25/05/2023 - 11:34
            +1

            @John Kimble: Love that style & some are as big as a house.

  • chris666 on 25/05/2023 - 15:45

    Had a few elecos lately both times they had an apprentice with them they charged like yours.. but would rather hire someone that is giving an apprentice ago to learn the craft even if it costs me $50 more

  • dasher86 on 25/05/2023 - 15:56

    looks like you got a discount for a two man job…
    imagine the cost for 2 x qualified plumbers!

  • Webber000 on 25/05/2023 - 17:23
    +1

    It doesn't actually say they have charged you anything for the apprentice. I really don't think you would have got it cheaper if the apprentice didn't go.

    It looks more like they have listed the name/initials (DC+DP) of the staff that went and the fact that one was a licenced tradesman and the other an apprentice - so they have a record of who has done the job (whether so they know who to pay or for insurance purposes or if they need to send someone back to the job).

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