Do You Consider Caged Eggs Unethical?

Trying2SaveABuck on 22/05/2023 - 22:30
Last edited 25/05/2023 - 12:22

So i was 'part' of a conversation the other day in which a vegaterian colleague was expressing her 'strong' views on how eating meat is 'unethical' - now i dont push my lifestyle on anyone and i certainly dont care about anyone elses but personally i like eating meat and i eat meat in moderation mostly chicken and fish - however in the overly PC and sensative workplace i work in, i though i should just nod my head and say 'fair enough, i understand your point of view' ….

Anyway as this colleague was ranting another colleague asked her do you think 'eating eggs' is ethical in which she said 'caged eggs should be banned' - she admited she ate only 'free ranged' eggs on occasion and continued ranting about the unethical ways chickens are treated - my reponses was 'fair enough' once more

now i 'said nothing' because i have learnt people with strong opinions are just not worth arguing with but i personally do not 'buy free range eggs' or to be clear i generally buy the 'cheapest dozen on the shelf which 9 times out of 10 are caged i never though twice as for me the cost is what matters most…..

For the record i dont agree it is unethical to eat/buy caged eggs but ill leave it to the unheralding wisdom of the Ozbargain community

updated [25-5-23] - some interesting points and im happy to 'learn' i will buy free ranged eggs if possible from here on in (personal growth is why i posted these things)

Poll Options

745
Caged eggs are Unethical
200
Caged eggs are ethically fine

Food & Grocery Eggs

Comments

- - - SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 09:53
      
      +1
      
      What do you think of dinosaurs and evolution?
      - inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 11:08
        
        @SpainKing: The BEST evidence for the "missing link" is Lucy and other literally fabricated skeletons fashioned by humans out of plastic and bronze. This is the fabricated evidence I am talking about. But correct me if you have anything more convincing.
        
        Dinosaurs walked with humans and are dragons same as the Welsh flag, the Chinese zodiac and the Lindt chocolate logo. They died, and we also killed them. There were red blood cells found in T-Rex fossils from Canada.
        
        DiscountForThee on 24/05/2023 - 11:33
        
        @inherentchoice:
        
        literally fabricated skeletons fashioned by humans out of plastic and bronze
        Dinosaurs walked with humans
        
        Sounds fascinating! I'd love to teach this to my kids - can I please ask for a journal, book, or publication which delves more into this?
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 11:41
        
        @DiscountForThee: Our kids are already taught the brainwashing groupthink from grade one. I used to believe that stuff.
        
        Simply go to the Smithsonian and you can join in on the worship of fabricated bronze Lucy on her pedestal.
        
        https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/a…
        
        DiscountForThee on 24/05/2023 - 11:45
        
        +1
        
        @inherentchoice: cool but where's your links about how we discovered 3.2myo fossil which was made from plastic? or the dinosaur being buds with people? sounds like something which has lots of well-respected sources - but I'm having trouble finding them on my end, perhaps you have the info?
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 11:53
        
        @DiscountForThee: Do you think the Chinese emperor did not keep a pet dragon? And the heroics of St George are not recognised in the Welsh flag?
        
        The bronze and plastic skeletons are plain to see and worship in the museums of the world. Fabricated and fraudulent of course.
        
        This is their best evidence. But my apologies if you have something better or more convincing?
        
        DiscountForThee on 24/05/2023 - 11:55
        
        +1
        
        @inherentchoice: I'm keen on a link to a research paper or general publication, or almost anything better than a comment saying that the Chinese Emporer had a pet dragon lmao
        
        Also, do you think people are worshiping skeletons?
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 12:19
        
        @DiscountForThee: So the 11 other animals in the Chinese zodiac are real but the dragon is not?
        
        As for the fabricated skeletons, not only worship but people are religiously and zealously crying "climate emergency" and gridlocking our whole cities, all based upon their unyielding faith and confidence in bronze Lucy.
        
        And arguably this religious worship is practiced even to the point of people buying uncaged eggs!?!
        
        If you are expecting a modern secular journal article as your highest form of evidence, then unfortunately these are of course only vetted and filterd by the academic groupthink. Nevertheless, the red blood cells in the fossils are reported in various secular literature.
        
        Dinosaur fossils were discovered only in the last 150 years and yet there are Dinosaurs depicted in the in the Carlisle Cathedral from 1491 and at Ta Prohm temple from the 1100s.
        
        But the Bible itself also describes dinosaurs in Job chapter 40.
        
        But instead of modern groupthink, consider these words of Jesus who claimed to be God and demonstrated it by conquering even death. The groupthink literature of today cannot even come remotely close to that standard of proof! Jesus often said "it is written", "it is written" and believed in the global destruction of all flesh except for a select few who boarded Noah's ark, including dinosaurs…
        
        But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
        (Matthew 24:37-39)
        
        DiscountForThee on 24/05/2023 - 12:24
        
        +1
        
        @inherentchoice: Damn, I was hoping you'd pull out some hard-hitting references, or even a 2 hour youtube "documentary" about how dinosaurs only went extinct because the aliens told them to walk off the edge of the flat earth. Or something of that educational level…
        
        Instead you're using the chinese zodiac animals as supporting evidence 🤣
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 12:31
        
        @DiscountForThee: So it seems you just ignored the literature on the red blood cells, and evidence etched in stone. And yet you offer nothing to counter even ONE of the multiple things I mentioned.
        
        Clearly not ignoring any inconvenient truths at all then…
        
        DiscountForThee on 24/05/2023 - 12:51
        
        +2
        
        @inherentchoice: The blood thing doesn't need disputing or arguing against - why on earth do you think it does? What is it that you think red blood cells might be suggesting?
        
        Not a single thing you've posted is even close to an argument or support for anything else you've claimed. It is about is credible as me saying that there is a teapot orbiting near mars and saying that anyone who doesn't believe this is following groupthink to try to discredit Russell lol
        
        SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 12:59
        
        +2
        
        @inherentchoice: DiscountForThee was hoping for a link to the secular literature you were talking about with regards to red blood cells in dinosaurs
        
        Your arguments seem to boil down to Darwin being wrong and all of science being based on some bronze Lucy figure which is obviously not the case
        
        No-one is going to take you seriously when your only evidence consists of flags, the Bible, Chinese Zodiac animals and calling academic consensus groupthink
        
        Surely you're ignoring the inconvenient truth that the amalgamation of most science points towards God having no presence on this Earth or care for his creations. Why did God stop performing miracles once we got cameras that could record them?
        
        ozbargainer88 on 24/05/2023 - 13:17
        
        +4
        
        @SpainKing: Man Ozbargain forums are always a good laugh but not normally this unhinged lmao
        
        Edit: talking about inherentchoice, not SpainKing
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 13:25
        
        -1
        
        @ozbargainer88: "unhinged" and "boiled egg" are not evidence that anything I said is wrong. As I said already, it should be easy for you to prove if I am so wrong.
        
        SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 13:26
        
        +1
        
        @inherentchoice: What evidence would you accept? Ot seems scientific literature is going to be disregarded
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 13:27
        
        @SpainKing: What is your BEST evidence? Just start with that? Is there ONE good example of how the Biblical history is wrong?
        
        And if it's not bronze Lucy, then what is it?
        
        SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 14:08
        
        +2
        
        @inherentchoice: Here's one relating to evolution (government sanctioned)
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK230201/#:~:text=Perhap…
        
        Here are people discussing how survival in a whale for three days (a la Jonah) is unfeasible
        https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/questions/could-…
        
        Here's a humorous representation of why I don't believe everything happens for a reason as is God's will
        https://images.app.goo.gl/sSuaQyebrFUTf99n9
        
        Here are Mormons discussing the Great Flood and how it's unlikely to have happened
        https://mormonr.org/qnas/rtnwb/the_great_flood
        Alternatively (non-government sanctioned):
        https://ncse.ngo/six-flood-arguments-creationists-cant-answe…
        
        “… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
        “… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10
        
        “…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
        “…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39
        
        “Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22
        “And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17
        “And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16
        
        “… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
        “…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
        
        Those quotes are all taken from https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/biblical-contrad… which I believe is taking all their quotes from the scripture
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 14:17
        
        +1
        
        @SpainKing: Thanks. Will look into these.
        
        inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 23:15
        
        -1
        
        @SpainKing: Okay have had a look at these, and here is my reply…
        
        For the highlighted text in the NIH link, this is not about any one or more identifiable example. Instead it makes a broad statement about the fossil record and its gaps. But this works both ways and so should equally apply to the stunning lack of transitional fossils and the "missing link" which is supposedly filled by bronze Lucy and her plastic cousins. As for the assumed sequencing in the strata layers, it is arguably evidence for a rapid burial (e.g. In a global flood). Surely only a rapid burial can stunningly preserve the creatures across layers, and so of course the layers with land mammals are above the "Devonian" layers with fishes! One example has preserved an Iichthyosaur giving birth! Furthermore, the sea floor creatures are of course found in the bottom strata layers, assumed to be the oldest. But more and more of these creatures are being found alive and well today as "living fossils", apparently unchanged after the billions of years.
        
        As for Jonah, rather than a whale, he was swallowed by a great fish, or perhaps some kind of sea monster according to some interpretations of the Greek Septuagint. But like Noah, Jesus himself affirms the Jonah account, and the New Testament text translates it as a sea creature…
        https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2012%3A…
        
        So Jesus referred to Jonah's three days as a prophetic foreshadowing of his own three days before his resurrection. This may even suggest that Jonah was dead, but was resurrected! In any case, it seems this issue is about what is being said by "thenakedscientists" in 2023, versus the man who conquered death itself, and to whom our 2023 date points.
        
        And likewise for Noah, the evidence you give is some followers of Joseph Smith versus Jesus, as per his quote which I already gave previously. These Joseph Smith followers also reference the overtly anti-creationist NCSE. Hardly an unbiased source?
        
        And let's examine the apparent scriptural contradictions…
        
        The Hebrew for Ecclesiastes 1:4 apparently does not mean for ever and ever. Even so, the earth melting and being burned is explained to be a burning which lasts forever, and so I would think the earth's physical matter/atoms/dust does still "abideth forever", potentially within the gravitational well of a black hole from the collapse of our sun and solar system. Arguably the Bible describes this future event where it says the earth and hell will be thrown into a "lake of fire", and this is probably also what Jesus described as where "their fire is not quenched". So that is forever abiding, but perhaps in the "bottomless pit" of a black hole and its internal "lake of fire".
        
        Those sister verses should be put into chronological order. In any case, this issue demonstrates where did Cain get his wife, and similarly the mating partners for the animal offspring after the pairs came off the ark. The purity and variation of the original gene pool is not susceptible to inbreeding until you get into the later generations.
        
        Judah is referring to a human tribe and their land. But Jesus himself is called the Lion of the tribe of Judah, and in the future he is retuning to rule with "a rod of iron". Staggering then how this contrasts with your quote about the enemies with iron in Judges 1:19!
        
        So thank you though for offering/identitying at least some evidence. I think people should still be mindful that if these are good examples of Biblical history being wrong, there's still arguably the overwhelming evidence of it being right.
        
        SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 13:26
        
        @ozbargainer88: I was surprised to see it myself but the reasoning is very entertaining and it's nice of them to share their opinions
        
        Hopefully we can provide some compelling arguments for them to consider which may change the way they think about these things
    - Ughhh on 24/05/2023 - 13:50
      
      +1
      
      Firstly, you need to look at what the word "evidence" actually means.
      
      Secondly, The Rigveda (Hindu scripture) is older than the Bible. Does the Rigveda state anything about the authors of and the events in the bible ever existing?
      
      Unless you've personally witness every event claimed in the bible. You're just parrotting someone who's smarter than you.
      - ozbargainer88 on 24/05/2023 - 14:14
        
        +1
        
        @Ughhh: How did we go from discussing whether caged eggs are moral to whether dinosaurs or dragons are real
        
        Ughhh on 24/05/2023 - 18:23
        
        +1
        
        @ozbargainer88: Haha I'm still getting my head around this nonsense.
        
        I talk to Jesus everyday, and he says inherentchoice is full of shit and is embarrassing him. Inherentchoice can try to prove me wrong/that Jesus never said that, but I bet he can't, the evidence is too strong.
loropy9 on 23/05/2023 - 00:20

The educated fools of today…
Mikefr on 23/05/2023 - 00:28

What eggsalent responses!!
Some Human on 23/05/2023 - 00:39

-5

I used to buy free range, then I watched a popular vegan “documentary” and they basically said you’re a POS if you eat meat, free range is just as bad as caged eggs, you’re a POS for eating any eggs at all. Blah blah blah.

So I said f*** these c****s and started buying caged eggs again just to spite them.
- jaffar on 23/05/2023 - 20:54
  
  +8
  
  Don't let 1 documentary get to you…
- ScottEh on 24/05/2023 - 08:53
  
  +3
  
  This some real mental midgetry
- OZKap on 24/05/2023 - 22:45
  
  +2
  
  Most thick skinned ozbargain commenter.
cookie2 on 23/05/2023 - 07:24

+27

I try and buy free range that show the hens per area or video cam etc. If they don't say any of that, then you may as well buy caged. Lucky hens remind me of fresh laid eggs that I used to pick from the chicken coop as a kid, so good!

Eggs have become even more expensive so now I just find myself buying less.
If I'm absolutely stuck and need eggs from my local then it has to be caged as no free ranged options.

Caged hens are just that CAGED. If you've ever kept chickens then you'd know that they're friendly, intelligent and deserving of a life not trapped in a space where they can't even stretch properly or graze around and be social. That's how I feel.
- trapper on 25/05/2023 - 19:08
  
  I try and buy free range that show the hens per area or video cam etc. If they don't say any of that, then you may as well buy caged.
  
  No don't say things like this, anything is better than those horrible battery cages.
Krankite on 23/05/2023 - 07:55

+13

Ethics aren't cut and dry. If you are struggling financially anything you can afford is ethical. If you are paying more for branded cage eggs than woolies free range you are a monster.
ForkSnorter on 23/05/2023 - 08:35

+15

I've bought nothing but free range or barn laid for the last 10 years. Maybe some of them aren't perfect, but I'd wager they're better than caged chooks.

Australia has more usable open space than just about anywhere on earth. It should be a crime to produce caged eggs in Australia.

I've found chooks are pretty cute and have a bit of personality. They definitely have feelings and emotions, so I would not want them to spend their entire lives sitting down in a tiny cage.

Nowadays there isn't a huge difference in price anyway.
- Ghost47 on 23/05/2023 - 09:09
  
  +2
  
  It should be a crime to produce caged eggs in Australia.
  
  Everything is driven by profits these days. It’s probably the most profitable model.
- SydStrand on 24/05/2023 - 12:51
  
  I've found chooks are pretty cute and have a bit of personality. They definitely have feelings and emotions, so I would not want them to spend their entire lives sitting down in a tiny cage.
  
  So you've raised backyard chooks? Have you actually visited a free range farms? Do you realise chickens tend to stay crammed in sheds even when outdoor access is provided, which is where they self-mutilate and cannibalise? It's depressing to see how many people in this thread have been tricked by the egg industry's cynical marketing pivot toward conscious consumption.
  
  Nowadays there isn't a huge difference in price anyway.
  
  Yeah, I wonder why.
  - SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 13:10
    
    +1
    
    Regardless of whether the chickens are dumb (not going outside given the option) in my anthropocentric brain I know I'd prefer a jail cell with access to the yard than solitary confinement
    
    The solution obviously shouldn't be "they're not making use of their potential freedom so let's take it away" but questioning why they don't ans trying to fix that
  - ForkSnorter on 24/05/2023 - 14:45
    
    Do you realise chickens tend to stay crammed in sheds even when outdoor access is provided, which is where they self-mutilate and cannibalise?
    
    Chooks we had in the past used to wander round the yard digging up worms and things when we let them out.
- amsaini15 on 24/05/2023 - 19:58
  
  I completely agree with you. Difference in price is bare minimum and we can do atleast this to support them.
- TEER3X on 25/05/2023 - 18:01
  
  +1
  
  Australia has more usable open space than just about anywhere on earth
  
  Mostly desert/unusable space
lostgoat on 23/05/2023 - 08:38

+3

Cost of living crisis is a good time to save money buying caged eggs.
Bottomline is both have the same nutritional value.
If it was so wrong the govt would ban caged eggs .
BTW the only product I see sold out at supermarkets all the time is caged eggs.
There is huge demand for them .
- cookie2 on 23/05/2023 - 15:51
  
  +1
  
  Just like they've banned smoking /s
- Jolakot on 23/05/2023 - 21:30
  
  +3
  
  If it was so wrong the govt would ban caged eggs .
  
  Except they already have banned it: https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/animal-welfare-gro…
  
  You're going to see way less caged eggs on shelves as they get phased out, similar shift happened when it was banned in the UK, Canada and more recently New Zealand.
  - Sawtell on 23/05/2023 - 21:50
    
    +1
    
    And look what is happening in NZ - $1 plus per egg if you can find them.
    
    Buy hens now.
nswnotill on 23/05/2023 - 08:43

+1

In my opinion, the intensive egg industry using cages is an essential part of the supply chain. Poultry in free range situations are subject to pests and diseases that are carried by birds. Infections have occurred in the past where millions of chickens have been destroyed to eliminate the disease.
Caged birds are in enclosed sheds with air conditioning and mechanised means of feeding, egg collection, and manure disposal. Cages have been made larger to comply with latest regulations.

In the event of a severe outbreak of disease in free range farms, all egg supply will be drastically reduced or stopped completely. With no alternative source from caged birds, there would be a crisis in sections of the food chain. Imports of eggs would be necessary.
- EightImmortals on 23/05/2023 - 09:16
  
  -1
  
  "Poultry in free range situations are subject to pests and diseases that are carried by birds. Infections have occurred in the past where millions of chickens have been destroyed to eliminate the disease."
  
  This is the government way.
  
  Was reading a blog by a chicken farmer recently who was explaining that while bird Flu does exist, it might only affect a couple of birds or a heap of birds but there are always birds that are immune to it and the farmers should be able to breed up stocks of resistant birds. Instead government comes in and kills everything in sight so birds with immunity are not allowed to survive and breed. Makes you wonder what the agenda is, not. Same thing in NSW with bees, they are claiming that varoa mite is everywhere so they are killing all the bees. One guy had his hives tested and there was NO varoa mite, government killed all his bees anyway. Anyone seeing a pattern here?
  - freefall101 on 23/05/2023 - 11:01
    
    +1
    
    Are they immune or are they just asymptomatic or not catching it? I have times where I'm exposed to people who are sick with a cold or flu and don't catch it, that doesn't mean I have a genetic immunity.
    
    If there were some 100% resistant birds to any kind of avian flu then it would be pretty big news - it seems unlikely this chook farmer has some secret information, does lab testing on all these birds to determine a genetic resistance and yet can't get the info out because the government has a chicken slaughtering fetish.
    - EightImmortals on 23/05/2023 - 11:59
      
      "Are they immune or are they just asymptomatic or not catching it?"
      
      What's the difference?
      
      "I have times where I'm exposed to people who are sick with a cold or flu and don't catch it, that doesn't mean I have a genetic immunity."
      
      Well obviously it means you have immunity coming from somewhere, either genetics or a healthy immune system.
      
      "does lab testing on all these birds to determine a genetic resistance and yet can't get the info out because the government has a chicken slaughtering fetish."
      
      All he said was that some birds don't get sick while other do, the government comes in and kills them all anyway. If they don;t get sick then they don't get sick, for whatever reason, who cares? The issue is that healthy birds are not being allowed to breed out the ones who are more susceptible to (in this case) avian flu.
      - freefall101 on 23/05/2023 - 12:59
        
        +5
        
        @EightImmortals:
        
        What's the difference?
        
        Asymptomatic means they still have it and still spread it. The point of killing off herds is to stop the spread of it (and prevent it jumping to humans as well). If you leave asymptomatic birds in the flock they'll just spread it to new birds coming in.
        
        Well obviously it means you have immunity coming from somewhere, either genetics or a healthy immune system.
        
        Genetic immunity to the flu would be a huge scientific breakthrough to discover, particularly because of the fast mutation of the flu. Much like the very small number of people with genetic immunity to HIV - it's one in a billion kind of thing. So the idea that this guy's chicken farm is producing immune chickens at a great rate is laughable.
        
        Having a strong immune system isn't necessarily genetic and my not catching it likely came about from my exposure to previous colds and flus more than anything else.
        
        All he said was that some birds don't get sick while other do, the government comes in and kills them all anyway. If they don;t get sick then they don't get sick, for whatever reason, who cares? The issue is that healthy birds are not being allowed to breed out the ones who are more susceptible to (in this case) avian flu.
        
        There's no evidence that it's something you can breed and pass along genetically though and in the meantime bird flu keeps spreading.
        
        It's also incredibly dangerous, more than half of all people who have caught the current worrying strain of H5N1 have died but we've been lucky that there has been no human to human transmission so far. It has even spread to species thought to be unable to catch influenza. Mass killings should have been enough to stop the spread but not of this virus.
        
        Meanwhile, while this farmer conducts his little experiment it will just help the spread of the virus, all on the basis of an observation with absolutely zero backup to it besides he saw some chickens he didn't think were sick yet.
- nomoneynoproblems on 23/05/2023 - 10:20
  
  +7
  
  Ah yes, the old it’s cold and dirty out there it’s better to stay inside together where you can’t move. No thanks, once you’ve tasted the difference it’s honestly worth paying that little bit extra for.
Archi on 23/05/2023 - 09:00

+1

free range eggs in the supermarket aren't really free range.. they are free range sometimes.
- bargaino on 23/05/2023 - 09:47
  
  Agreed. So just buy "barn laid" then, or anything except caged.
  
  A comparable issue is sow-stalls for pork. Australian producers are moving away from that too.
- Jolakot on 23/05/2023 - 21:33
  
  +3
  
  If you find eggs labelled as free-range that aren't actually free-range, then dob them in to the government because that's absolutely illegal: https://ablis.business.gov.au/service/ag/free-range-egg-stan…
  - SydStrand on 24/05/2023 - 12:53
    
    +1
    
    Unless you're doing vigilante journalism by sneaking onto farms to film how they treat birds, or doing head counts, then this doesn't mean squat. The bar for 'free range' labelling is incredibly low in this country.
LurkingLurker on 23/05/2023 - 10:33

I never buy free range eggs. I usually buy pasture or pasture raised eggs which are priced only slightly higher if not identically to free ranged eggs. But caged eggs are fine and I buy them from time to time when the wallet is wearing a bit thin.

Imo free range eggs are a bit of a scam - you get minimal benefits of chooks running about as there is no space for them to move nor the potential environmental benefits from minimising land use of caged eggs.
- Jolakot on 23/05/2023 - 21:37
  
  +2
  
  Isn't the max density for free range chickens 1 per square meter? Seems like a reasonable amount of room to move around
  - LurkingLurker on 24/05/2023 - 01:10
    
    +5
    
    Yes, you are right that free range labelling requires density of 10,000 hens per hectare or less (https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2017L00474). However, this is significantly greater than the 400-750 hens per hectare you would find on pasture raised or organic labelled (this is a self-labelling as there is no definition in the ACL) eggs. There is research suggesting that lower density and mix diet can improve the birds’ welfare (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.psj.2020.11.005). In addition, multiple experiments were conducted to analyse the nutrition value of eggs laid by hens raised in different conditions, and most have concluded no difference in macronutrients composition, but a significant increase in micronutrients when the chooks are pasture raised/free ranged (https://doi.org/10.1017/S1742170509990214, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8103914/). So I believe that the lower density would give more foraging opportunities thus potentially reducing their reliance on feeds, which in turn will provide more of that micronutrient goodness I yearn for. It is better for the bird and my body while slightly worse for my wallet.
    
    The reduction of density could also slow down the spread of virus and diseases thus in theory improving the overall mortality rate over a longer period. That being said, the intense land use in these types of farms could be argued as detrimental to our environment and can be deemed as an unsustainable practice in mass.
    
    Free range labelling definition is also a bit of a wack as most it is meddling in the grey area of “reasonable”. You could raise the hens in a gravel pit or in arid land and grain feed them while still label the eggs as free range if it is “reasonable” and does not exceed the density threshold. So if I am going to make the most out of an ethical approach I might as well as support small local farmers that raise the hens in the best conditions possible, especially given the price difference between good free range eggs and pasture raised eggs are marginal at best.
    
    But hey, food is food, and all reasons and ethics are secondary when someone is poor and hungry.
    - sb9 on 26/05/2023 - 07:41
      
      Appreciate the linked info - good post.
  - Giraffe on 24/05/2023 - 12:42
    
    Is it really? 1 square metre is very small.
    
    And don't forget that they would only get 1 square metre each if they space themselves out perfectly.
    - Jolakot on 24/05/2023 - 13:31
      
      You're mixing up units of space with units of crowd density, which is definitely an easy mistake to make
      
      For an example with humans, which of these seems more crowded?
      https://www.gkstill.com/_Media/100-5_med.png
      https://www.gkstill.com/_Media/10-4_med.png
      
      They're both 1 person per square meter, but as you scale up the size you can see that the uneven distribution of people actually makes the space less cramped, given that neither humans nor chickens are uniformly distributed.
      
      The first image is 100sqm, the second is 625sqm, and a hectare is 10000sqm.
    - trapper on 25/05/2023 - 15:30
      
      And don't forget that they would only get 1 square metre each if they space themselves out perfectly.
      
      Which they don't do because …. they don't need 1 square meter each.
      
      They actually prefer to be closer to each other than that.
Ryanek on 23/05/2023 - 10:38

Caged eggs are not Unethical

That double negative is killing me
- Trying2SaveABuck on 23/05/2023 - 10:51
  
  i changed it for you.
- illusion99 on 23/05/2023 - 20:17
  
  Is it literally killing you?
  - Ryanek on 23/05/2023 - 20:25
    
    +1
    
    I never said literally
    - illusion99 on 23/05/2023 - 20:32
      
      I never said you said it. I was just asking a question
      - Ryanek on 24/05/2023 - 05:55
        
        +2
        
        @illusion99: So you're asking if I'm dead?
        
        illusion99 on 24/05/2023 - 06:39
        
        +1
        
        @Ryanek: Correct. I’m asking if the double negative successfully killed you in its attempt
        
        Ryanek on 24/05/2023 - 10:19
        
        +1
        
        @illusion99: I'm happy confirm I'm alive and well. Cheers mate.
payless69 on 23/05/2023 - 11:21

-1

Vote for the birds!
All stats are now bird no1 in the world is the most overengineered creature.
Consider that around 30% of pork produced in this world does no longer get eaten before it expires. Then it gets minced, superheated and fed back to animals. Cost constrictions mean mincing machines cantaminating it with heavy metals like lead etc and then it enteres the food chain again being farmed fish food or chicken food….
- gromit on 24/05/2023 - 12:39
  
  +1
  
  Cost constrictions mean mincing machines cantaminating it with heavy metals like lead etc
  
  huh? have you ever seen an industrial mincer? They certainly won't have soft metals like lead in them.
  - payless69 on 24/05/2023 - 14:20
    
    -1
    
    Plenty of youtubes on how meat waste is sold to Eastern Europe like Belarus where the dirtiest machines turn it into fish food.
    Norway feeds it to fish farms, the female agriculture misnister ensures that the poisonous fish is exported and she gets maximum returns.
    Back to Maccas for the ultra health?
    - gromit on 24/05/2023 - 18:13
      
      +1
      
      You said heavy metals, not dirty. Heavy metals arent in mincers, where are u suggesting allnthese heavy metals are coming from?
      - payless69 on 25/05/2023 - 07:35
        
        -1
        
        @gromit: When costs matter them factories weld together whatever scrap metal they find, crush bones with meat attached till small enough you can superheat dry the stuff ready for export. Sure they do spot checks but many film crews have tested farmed fish and found lead way over permissible levels. Many chicken farms throw male chicks straight into the mincer alive! Animal cruelty out of sight out of mind!
DingoBilly on 23/05/2023 - 11:29

+9

Not buying caged eggs is one of the simplest ways you can support more ethical and sustainable practices.

If you struggle with that then you have a long way to go to understanding social issues in general.
- Donaldhump on 23/05/2023 - 11:58
  
  there is a thing called inflation and cost of living crisis. I can't afford to pay $9 for 12 eggs. my lack of hunger is more important than a chickens feelings.
  
  sounds harsh but its true
  - p1 ama on 23/05/2023 - 14:28
    
    there is a thing called inflation and cost of living crisis. I can't afford to pay $9 for 12 eggs.
    
    How much are caged eggs?
    - Donaldhump on 23/05/2023 - 16:06
      
      $4
      - p1 ama on 23/05/2023 - 21:21
        
        +9
        
        @Donaldhump: Great, it's 60c more for cage-free eggs: https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/265064/str…
        
        Lmao $9 for eggs, give me a break. Did you think people would just not fact check you?
        
        cookie2 on 23/05/2023 - 21:55
        
        +5
        
        @p1 ama: I thought something similar but there's no point in trying to convince ppl that don't want to be convinced.
        
        Sawtell on 23/05/2023 - 22:00
        
        -1
        
        @p1 ama: After cage eggs are banned check then and see the prices.
        
        Once all the commercial kitchens have cornered supply of the ethical eggs, how much will you be willing to pay for what's left over?
        
        SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 10:17
        
        +1
        
        @Sawtell: I bet the big bad free range farmers have a cabal to price out those poor caged egg suppliers that respect their customers almost as much as they do their chickens
        
        Donaldhump on 24/05/2023 - 06:36
        
        -3
        
        @p1 ama: 60c is alot of money to pensioners.
        you may think it is funny to laugh at others peoples lack of money, but that is sheer shithousery.
        
        cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 06:59
        
        +1
        
        @Donaldhump: @p1 ama is not laughing at people's lack of money. They've highlighted that you eggagerated the cost of free range at $9, and provided a link (fact checking) to prove that other options infact start at .60c more.
        If that's what you choose to read from the discussion, then i was correct in not bothering to try and convince you myself.
        We should always try to acknowledge why we do what we do. Maybe it's the saving, maybe you don't mind, maybe you don't believe in the differences, that's fine. Just don't pretend it's because it'd cost you $9.
        
        p1 ama on 24/05/2023 - 08:45
        
        +3
        
        @Donaldhump:
        
        60c is alot of money to pensioners.
        
        Classic "invoke some marginalised group" despite you not giving two shits about them.
        
        If you really care about pensioners, then go advocate for an increase to the aged pension. Don't drag them into the middle of some culture war issue for your own convenience.
        
        This is all assuming that you can actually find caged eggs for $4.
        
        Donaldhump on 24/05/2023 - 09:28
        
        @p1 ama: how do you know i don't give two shits about them. pensioners / jobseeker should raised, stage 3 tax cuts should not be done
        
        what do you want me to do stand in front of parliament with a sign?
        
        anyway got prices wrong, my eggs are free. point was people will be cheapest given living crisis cost
        
        tomfool on 24/05/2023 - 15:25
        
        @Donaldhump: Donate your stage 3 tax cuts to a pensioner?
        
        Donaldhump on 24/05/2023 - 15:39
        
        @tomfool: your comment makes no sense.
        
        1.) they haven't kicked in yet
        2.) you do not know my income
        3.) you do not know if I am a pensioner
        
        tomfool on 26/05/2023 - 14:50
        
        @Donaldhump: You mention previously you earn over $150K. So you are not a pensioner, will get stage 3 tax cuts. You asked what you should do. Stage 3 tax cuts likely going ahead so I proposed a solution.
  - GregRust on 24/05/2023 - 09:45
    
    Free Range eggs do not cost $9 a dozen. Closer to $5-$6 for the supermarket brands.
- Antikythera on 23/05/2023 - 22:41
  
  +1
  
  biggest social issue is trying to buy a home.
  if caged eggs get me closer to that goal so be it.
  - drprox on 24/05/2023 - 09:01
    
    +1
    
    No the biggest social issue is trying to find a home to live in, whether that is rented or owned (by the bank).
lostgoat on 23/05/2023 - 12:01

-3

Put it this way . The extra dollars you are paying for your free range eggs could save life's in many spots around the world currently where people are starving to death .
- parisienne on 23/05/2023 - 19:24
  
  +3
  
  Didn't Marie Antoinette have some advice for that ?
- morse on 23/05/2023 - 19:48
  
  +3
  
  That’s an interesting point. Though I think people would just pocket the extra $ and not donate it.
  
  Just for comparison sake, picking like for like products from Woolies
  The cheapest ‘cage free’ not ‘free range’ are $4.60 for 700g
  https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/265064/str…
  Vs the own brand cheapest free range available @ $5.20 for 700g
  https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/224763/woo…
  
  So the saving is $0.60 I’d go through 12 eggs in between a fortnight and a month for a family of three, but just say every two weeks. That’s $15.60 a year. If you multiple that by half the population of Australia (to account for people buying for families or individuals) that’s about $200 million a year, which is actually decent. However, if everyone bought caged, there would be increased demand so prices would go up. Realistically it’s the higher priced lower density eggs that keep the cage free and higher density free range at the price point they are. Having said that I’m all for the gradual improvement of animal welfare that I also think can be efficient in the long run.
- Deals For Days on 23/05/2023 - 20:59
  
  +6
  
  Put it this way, do you actually donate the money you save? I would bet you don't.
gakko on 23/05/2023 - 19:41

+7

Not vegan or vego. Find cage and cage free eggs cruel. Not much to it really.
Deals For Days on 23/05/2023 - 20:56

+9

I think it's pretty obviously unethical. If people had to actually face the consequences of their dietary choices (hunt/kill for themselves etc.), far fewer people would eat animal products. There's a reason 'ag-gag' laws exist: because the agriculture industry knows that the truth makes people make different choices.

Look at this video and tell me it's ethical to hold an animal in a cage barely - barely larger than their own body - for most of their life. Pretty obvious answer IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2H1GeEHEEE

Unless you're so poor that you truly cannot afford the small price increase between caged and free range, I believe it's obvious that choosing to save a few bucks when it causes immense suffering for another living being is wrong. Again, if you can't afford it, that's another issue, but if you can afford free range, no excuse.

I think ultimately it comes down to this: you don't get to choose who or what you are born as. I consider myself very lucky to be born in such a prosperous country as Australia, at the top of the animal kingdom. Sometimes, things we need come from animals, and they suffer. But why would you not try to reduce their suffering?

As an aside, dozens of people who despise vegans then turn around and talk about how barbaric China is for eating and housing dogs in very cruel conditions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMSo292PnKs). If you don't have a problem with caged eggs, I assume you'll be advocating to make dog meat legal in Aus as well?
- ssfps on 23/05/2023 - 21:55
  
  +3
  
  I somewhat share your viewpoint, as someone who has eaten meat i've slaughtered and butchered myself.
  Everyone that wants to eat meat should be exposed to this in person IMO.
  - cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 07:02
    
    +1
    
    People don't want to see it. Ignorance and denial push away possible discomfort or should I say it… guilt.
- Sawtell on 23/05/2023 - 22:09
  
  +1
  
  But where does it stop? How does anyone justify ruling caged eggs as unethical but then support animal testing of pharmaceuticals and other research by buying medicine, makeup or whatever that clearly have their roots in animal cruelty?

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