Do You Consider Caged Eggs Unethical?

Trying2SaveABuck on 22/05/2023 - 22:30
Last edited 25/05/2023 - 12:22

So i was 'part' of a conversation the other day in which a vegaterian colleague was expressing her 'strong' views on how eating meat is 'unethical' - now i dont push my lifestyle on anyone and i certainly dont care about anyone elses but personally i like eating meat and i eat meat in moderation mostly chicken and fish - however in the overly PC and sensative workplace i work in, i though i should just nod my head and say 'fair enough, i understand your point of view' ….

Anyway as this colleague was ranting another colleague asked her do you think 'eating eggs' is ethical in which she said 'caged eggs should be banned' - she admited she ate only 'free ranged' eggs on occasion and continued ranting about the unethical ways chickens are treated - my reponses was 'fair enough' once more

now i 'said nothing' because i have learnt people with strong opinions are just not worth arguing with but i personally do not 'buy free range eggs' or to be clear i generally buy the 'cheapest dozen on the shelf which 9 times out of 10 are caged i never though twice as for me the cost is what matters most…..

For the record i dont agree it is unethical to eat/buy caged eggs but ill leave it to the unheralding wisdom of the Ozbargain community

updated [25-5-23] - some interesting points and im happy to 'learn' i will buy free ranged eggs if possible from here on in (personal growth is why i posted these things)

Poll Options

  • 745
    Caged eggs are Unethical
  • 200
    Caged eggs are ethically fine
Food & Grocery Eggs

Comments

  • bobbified on 22/05/2023 - 22:36
    +29

    So i was 'part' of a conversation the other day in which a vegan colleague was expressing her 'strong' views

    First time for you? You better get used to it, because it definitely won't be your last! 😊

    PS: I'll just leave this here!

    • CalmLemons on 24/05/2023 - 12:40
      +12

      What they don't understand is it's all part of a system that literally supports the massive global population that we have along with how we literally grow chickens in a month.

      Caged isn't great but you would need to consider how feasible it would be to have everything 'free range' (which is not really free range anyway as there's still tens of thousands in a certain area) vs what I normally try to buy which is pasture raised eggs which is the more ideal form but unlikely to be feasible to feed the population.

      Ethics would be one small part of the equation, more so, what we saw during covid when literally super markets were pulled out of food simply because of a distribution issue, what would happen if we simply could not make enough eggs due to a growing issue - that would lead to panic.

      I'm all for free range, preferably pasture raised, if it is economically feasible and no one starves. But how much do you want the lower economic portion of the population to pay for eggs???

      My pasture raised eggs are like $12 for a dozen vs $5 for caged…

        • CalmLemons on 24/05/2023 - 21:59
          +8

          You're letting your own paranoia get the best of you. It's a very common mental illness that occurs as people go past the age of 40, in males and females, especially thinking that the world is against us and there is a conspiracy against everything.

          Have hope and learn to focus on the very moment is where you can find true peace and mental happiness. The only bougie man is the one in your mind. Since the beginning of time there have always been village idiots, just the village is a lot bigger now, and there are more idiots, not implying SM above.

        • teslacoil33 on 24/05/2023 - 23:22
          +12

          Did anyone else read this as beat poetry with a walking bass line backing track?

          • boirganz on 25/05/2023 - 07:45

            @teslacoil33: Only the second time after you’ve mentioned it.

            Now I feel both entertained and a little stupider

          • mooney on 26/05/2023 - 12:45

            @teslacoil33: Not me. I read it like the opening monologue from Trainspotting.

        • GrueHunter on 26/05/2023 - 22:08

          diddums

        • Protractor on 28/05/2023 - 13:33

          Link to the playbook,please.

      • CodeExplode on 25/05/2023 - 21:33
        +1

        What they don't understand is it's all part of a system that literally supports the massive global population that we have along with how we literally grow chickens in a month.

        Not sure where you got that idea. Raising animals for meat is incredibly inefficient for land and water use compared to just eating what they're fed, with most of the energy lost. Regular meat-eating on this scale is a recent luxury for only the developed world and is not in any way the cheapest option for food.

  • plmko on 22/05/2023 - 22:41
    +55

    Bullshit you had any of those conversations.

      • Tambani on 24/05/2023 - 16:42
        +8

        So is killing and eating the poor. We finally doing that now?

      • Shunto on 25/05/2023 - 22:32

        your overuse of apostrophe's is giving me a tic

        • Anon456 on 26/05/2023 - 23:30

          Pretty ironic when you used an apostrophe incorrectly yourself!
          Apostrophes are used to indicate possession or contractions and your "apostrophe's" was neither.
          But yes, OP has no idea about grammar

  • Benoffie on 22/05/2023 - 22:45
    +17

    Vegans are so exhausting (I have one in my family. Rather stick a fork in my eye than listen to their ravings).

    But in terms of the question, I avoid caged wherever possible. More than that, I prefer to pay local suppliers (which are generally half the price from happy backyard chooks).

    Free range is not free range when it's 10000 hens in a shed.

    • KaTst3R on 22/05/2023 - 23:13
      +51

      Rather stick a fork in my eye than listen to their ravings

      It doesnt solve the problem. You are blind and still able to hear their ravings.

      You should stick it in your ears instead.

      • Secret ID on 25/05/2023 - 21:19
        +1

        Spot on! Love your problem solving skills.

    • Jolakot on 23/05/2023 - 21:41
      +2

      It's not 10000 hens in a shed, it's 10000 hens to a hectare, which is a square meter per bird

        • greatlamp on 24/05/2023 - 07:31
          +7

          Before COVID Melbourne had the second largest population of international students in any city in the world, est. 500,000.

          During COVID they left and were not replaced.

          Now they are being replaced. The 'net' population looks like it is increasing, because people are intentionally ignoring when it was decreasing, and presenting it to the gullible public as if the ALP has done… something.

          Since when was the LNP against migration? They always pumped it up to keep our wages nice and low.

          nothing has changed, the number of international students coming in will be the same it has always been. Stop believing false narratives.

          • komododragon on 24/05/2023 - 07:43
            +11

            @greatlamp: Why you bring ALP and LNP here? We are talking about eggs.

            • greatlamp on 24/05/2023 - 07:54
              +3

              @komododragon: True, I just don't like seeing people being lied to.

              About the eggs… once you see caged hens with your own eyes it's hard to justify why we need to keep 4 birds in a 50x50 cm box, cut their beaks, and install lights so they can't sleep- just to have cheaper eggs.

            • SpainKing on 24/05/2023 - 09:35
              +2

              @komododragon: He didn't bring it up, it was the other guy

            • Littlevu on 26/05/2023 - 10:13

              @komododragon: Politicians are known to be bad eggs are they not?

      • SydStrand on 24/05/2023 - 12:37
        +5

        It's not 10000 hens in a shed, it's 10000 hens to a hectare, which is a square meter per bird

        If you've actually been to layer farms (I have), it's invariably a giant shed surrounded which hens are reluctant to wander out of. But so long as they technically have access to the outdoors (no law specifies how many or the size of shed doors either), it qualifies for free range labelling. Free range farms typically have higher rates of infectious disease, vent pecking, and cannibalism.

        If you buy eggs, that's fine. But it's important to be honest with where your food actually comes from rather than getting willingly misled by cynical, socially-conscious marketing. The OP's colleague is a hypocrite, weaponising this shared delusion that free range means happy little hens on rolling green hills. It is not reality. All of us who buy commercial eggs are complicit and no one is morally superior to another. The only way you can be sure your eggs were 'cruelty free' is to raise your own hens.

        • HealthHazard on 24/05/2023 - 16:33
          +7

          To be classified as free range a producer can have up to a MAXIMUM of 10000 birds a hectare and providers have to specify the bird density on the box.

          Manning Valley has 2500 birds per hectare and a chicken camera (which you can access online https://www.manningvalleyeggs.com.au/our-chickens). Canobolas has 1500 per hectare.

          • trapper on 25/05/2023 - 18:58
            +1

            @HealthHazard: There is nothing wrong with 10,000 per hectare, that is ample space for chickens.

            They actually prefer to be closer together, you can see they all cluster in groups leaving most of the space empty anyway.

            Look at those pictures at Manning Valley, the fields are mostly empty, they could easily have 4x the chickens there and all would still be happy.

        • greatlamp on 25/05/2023 - 08:14
          +3

          I've been to battery cage farms and seen the chickens in suspended wire cages, on top of a pile of their own shit, 4 to a box, without enough room to even turn around. One of the 4 can't even reach the food. Their beaks have been cut so they don't peck holes in their eggs (a stress response many animals have when they know their environment is not safe to have children - they kill the children themselves). Lights are kept on so the birds don't go to sleep and eat more. Many chickens missing feathers. I'm sure if they were able to the birds would try kill themselves. They don't live very long regardless.

          Giant sheds is a huge improvement, even if the chickens aren't grazing lush fields bathed in sunlight

        • Nedward on 25/05/2023 - 09:14
          +2

          What you're describing is "Cage Free" or barn laid.

          I have no moral guilt because I always buy free range as opposed to caged or cage free.

          I also have the awareness that in our economy it would not be viable to only produce free range eggs. But by buying free range I support its production.

    • ContinuousCustomer on 24/05/2023 - 11:36
      -3

      Every village or family has an idiot, that person is usually vegan.

    • nonoannie on 24/05/2023 - 13:50
      +2

      is there any local suppliers around sydney? i want to buy to pasture raised egg once awhile, but they are so expensive at coles or woolies

    • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 20:31

      My sympathies.

    • Nedward on 25/05/2023 - 09:09

      Correct. That would be cage free (or barn laid). It's labelled on the box.

    • webmonkey on 25/05/2023 - 12:15

      You can make a choice which free range eggs you buy. They're labelled on the box, the more birds the smaller the print so you might have to scan for it.

      Avoid the coles,woolies and other cheap "free range" which have very little space for the chooks. 2500/ha is an arbitrary number which I reckon is a good balance of chook/m2 and price.

      • trapper on 25/05/2023 - 12:32

        10,000/ha is fine.

        This is comparable to even a small domestic chicken run.

        • webmonkey on 28/05/2023 - 20:35

          True but you're only allowed to keep up to 10 domestically so not quite the same as having 3 orders of magnitude more running around.

    • whatgift on 25/05/2023 - 16:43

      Agree on the hen numbers - for only a little more in price you can get eggs with a lot lower density's. I don't consider myself a super ethical eater, but figured for eggs I can make the effort, and it's not ridiculously expensive to do so.

  • sidesw1pe on 22/05/2023 - 22:47
    +26

    I feel more strongly about proper capitalisation.

    • MS Paint on 22/05/2023 - 22:59
      +16

      I like the catchup full stops.

      Ooops I forgot to add a full stop. I'll make up for it with 4 full stops in a row.

      OP's post history shows no punctuation improvement at all.

      Most of their sentences contain on average 60 words.

      FFS.

      • cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 06:43

        I like your post contribution.

      • rumblytangara on 24/05/2023 - 12:28
        +3

        Totally irrelevant post, and 100% more interesting than the OP. Thank you.

    • bobbieb on 24/05/2023 - 18:36

      That, and the need to know the difference morals and ethics.

      I can personally attest to the fact that code of ethics that I subscribe to as part of my profession has zero opinion on caged hens.

    • Canberralad92 on 26/05/2023 - 06:37

      I 'feel' the 'same way'.

  • Donaldhump on 22/05/2023 - 23:04
    +17

    I consider 8% inflation unethical along with rampant homelessness.

    • freedoom on 24/05/2023 - 10:56

      what about freezing morgages and provinding everyone spending money during covid?
      does money fall from trees

      • Mr Haj on 24/05/2023 - 11:16
        +1

        It did. I think that's the problem.

      • Donaldhump on 24/05/2023 - 11:40
        +1

        automatic jobkeeper of $750 to those earning less than $750 was stupid, should have just been the person weekly average.

        and jobkeeper to all the hardly normals was stupid too when they made profits.

        letting in a shit tonne of immigrants to fund the ponzi scheme is stupid

        • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 20:34

          letting in a shit tonne of immigrants to fund the ponzi scheme…

          then bring in 5-12 family members to go on welfare…

          is stupid

          Fixed it for you. ;-D

          • [Deactivated] on 25/05/2023 - 02:57

            @[Deactivated]:

            then bring in 5-12 family members

            Lol, this isn't a thing unless someone has 11 kids. Have a friend that works in immigration, from what I understand, this is pretty difficult and expensive for professionals to do. Bringing your old parents and entire family, having them gain citizenship and go on welfare is borderline impossible. This would only happen with immediate family members like a wife and kids back home, who eventually end up working here anyway rather thang going directly on welfare. Or when older divorcees from here marry some sugar baby from the phillipines or other asian country who already have multiple kids back home (Most also endup working, some go on welfare after getting divorced when they get their citizenship).

            Also if you walk into a centrelink, majority of the people there are rarely migrants (atleast not ones that are financially well off enough to come here legally and rich enough to bring their families along too). People in these countries are raised to work hard and do whatever it takes to support themselves. The issue here isn't migrants, but politicians prioritising short term migrant $$$ to bail them out without building any infrastructure to support rising populations or bringing in people in sustainable numbers that our existing infrastructure can cope with.

          • p1 ama on 25/05/2023 - 09:15

            @[Deactivated]:

            then bring in 5-12 family members to go on welfare…

            Go sit in front of a Centrelink for a day, and verify the things you say.

  • Crow K on 22/05/2023 - 23:05
    +29

    now i dont push my lifestyle on anyone and i certainly dont care about anyone elses

    aren't you the guy who ends thread discussions saying things like "i hope you will find salvation in the lord one day"?

    • djsweet on 23/05/2023 - 10:37
      +1

      Would it be better to say "I hope you rot in hell"?

      • Crow K on 23/05/2023 - 11:10
        +9

        Yeah, that's the thing with ending discussions, we only get a choice between "i'd love you to join my religion, the correct one" and "rot in hell".

        nice false dichotomy you got there. would be a shame if someone were to mock it.

        anyway, praying for you and your salvation in the lord
        xxx
        crow

        • djsweet on 23/05/2023 - 12:37
          +2

          I appreciate the thoughts and prayers

      • Tambani on 24/05/2023 - 16:45

        It would be more honest on their part.

    • Jolakot on 23/05/2023 - 20:47
      +12

      Exactly, if nobody buys the dog meat, then it just goes in the bin and the dog was slaughtered for nothing

      • KaTst3R on 24/05/2023 - 00:13
        -7

        Absolutely correct if your local butcher have them available for sale. But they dont and they wont as it is illegal. So your point in kinda moot.

  • p1 ama on 22/05/2023 - 23:49
    +44

    Nobody bloody cares mate.

    We all do things that are ethically questionable to different degrees, and we all make certain ethical sacrifices for the sake of convenience, money, or whatever reason.

    If you want to eat caged eggs, you do that. If she wants to eat free range eggs, she can do that. You'll have to live with your conscience, and she with hers.

    Stop making everything into a culture war issue.

    • cookie2 on 24/05/2023 - 06:45
      +11

      Speak for yourself not everyone. I care and am interested in others views and opinions on this and a variety of other random matters.

      • dogboy on 24/05/2023 - 10:02
        -6

        Agreed. Some people don't understand the purpose of a discussion forum on this site. And other morons upvote them. Unbelievable how dumb some people can be.

        • p1 ama on 24/05/2023 - 10:52
          +10

          Some people don't understand the purpose of a discussion forum on this site.

          This isn't a discussion, this is a post written purposefully to inflame unnecessary culture wars.

          If it was really for the discussion, then we would not need the whole sob story about how OP was accosted by his colleague who is a vegan and all the other non-sensical BS about how he works in such a "woke" workplace.

          OP obviously does not care about caged vs. free range eggs - and my expression of "nobody cares" is in reference to OP's consistent drivel about being marginalised by the so-called "woke" majority.

    • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 20:36
      -1

      Karens care.

  • El cheepo on 22/05/2023 - 23:54
    +24

    So i was 'part' of a conversation the other day in which a vegan colleague was expressing her 'strong' views on how eating meat is 'unethical

    K.

    she admited she ate only 'free ranged' eggs on occasion and continued ranting about the unethical ways chickens are treated

    Wut…

    This a troll or typo… what vegan would eat eggs?

    • MS Paint on 23/05/2023 - 00:04
      -1

      Probably a vegan that also eats honey occasionally.

    • DogeConomy on 23/05/2023 - 08:48

      facts

    • drumrollplease on 23/05/2023 - 23:27
      +2

      That's a vegetarian not a vegan

    • Kangal on 24/05/2023 - 00:30
      +2

      what vegan would eat eggs?

      Some vegans eat free range easter eggs :\

      • Nugs on 25/05/2023 - 06:43

        Dairy free Easter eggs
        .

    • [Deactivated] on 24/05/2023 - 20:37
      -1

      ALL of them. It's well known veggie cultists "cheat" when no-one is looking.

  • Richardc on 23/05/2023 - 00:03
    +4

    First World problem

    • eraser215 on 23/05/2023 - 00:23
      +33

      I think we have found a boiled egg here.

      • inherentchoice on 23/05/2023 - 00:25
        -6

        Maybe you don't like the inconvenient truth?

        If I am so wrong it should be easy for you to prove.

        • EightImmortals on 23/05/2023 - 07:40
          -7

          Maybe more confused than wrong. :)

          Has environmentalism become a religion for a lot of people? Sure. Just like 'authority' and 'science' and many other things have, making idols is what people do.

          Is there a need to stop destroying the planet for mere greed and power? Of course. And by destroying the planet I'm not talking about the carbon dioxide unicorn. Or is it just carbon now? Hard to keep up.

          Is there a 'climate emergency', of course not. Even if there were I'm not sure the solution is to 'buy free range chickens and eggs'. But look at all the other atrocities being committed in the name of this alleged 'climate emergency'. BTW 20 minute digital ghettos, errm, 'neighbourhoods' are coming to your location soon. Was just reading our local council's schemes on that point.

          Are caged hens and battery farms cruel to animals, without a doubt. If that concerns anyone then they don't have to give up eating meat or eggs but they could support farmers who look after their animals. Oh but that would cost an extra 2 bux on the weekly grocery bill right? And my 2 bux is way more important than animal welfare.

          Just as with real science and legitimate authority and real environmentalism, the religionised versions always seem to get the attention and power while the actual issues go largely ignored.

          • GrueHunter on 26/05/2023 - 22:12

            @EightImmortals: I love how you 'put' scare quotes around 'concepts' you don't 'believe' in

            Like 'science'

            • EightImmortals on 27/05/2023 - 07:13

              @GrueHunter: Ahh the tyranny of text, I do believe in science, just not 'science'..or scientism if you prefer. Quotation marks are a handy tool to separate the real from the fake.

    • p1 ama on 23/05/2023 - 01:16
      +11

      And save us from a "climate emergency"… By buying free range chickens and eggs.

      Where has anyone ever said that buying free range eggs has an impact on climate change?

      Stop making things up.

      • inherentchoice on 23/05/2023 - 01:34
        -7

        This is actually my point. Because it it is the SAME people who promote climate action, who buy the uncaged eggs. It is the SAME people, as even the RSPCA itself openly says they will "Advocate for an urgent focus on climate action".

        But you are correct in the sense that the caged eggs are more "sustainable" in terms of carbon emissions. This is a fact. The hypocrisy to cry climate emergency but then buy uncaged eggs is just one example of the brainwashing groupthink and green nonsense that has infected our society, and the inconvenient truths which everyone mostly ignores.

        It is all green religion environmentalism nonsense… and by buying the eggs you people everywhere are blindly supporting and following the groupthink, and practicing idolatry by worshiping Earth and trees. And if you think the eggs and tree worship are not related, then why has the dominance of uncaged eggs only emerged since Al Gore's film? And the rise of veganism also? Most vegans today will tell you that they decided to be vegan because it's better for the environment.

    • bargaino on 23/05/2023 - 09:45

      I buy caged eggs on principle. There are "free range" eggs where they merely open the door of the barn during the day

      I think you are confounding two issues. "free range", like "organic" can indeed be a bit meaningless.
      The difference between "barn-laid" or "cage free" and free range is questionable, without details.
      But caged chickens are a whole other matter. They are extremely crowded, and a genuine animal welfare issue.

      I've kept back-yard chickens, so maybe that makes me a little more sympathetic, but I try to avoid caged eggs, especially when the price difference is so small.
      Note that all meat chickens are barn-raised - none of them are kept in tiny cages, so enjoy you chicken guilt-free.

      • SydStrand on 24/05/2023 - 12:46

        I try to avoid caged eggs, especially when the price difference is so small.

        Have you ever wondered why the price difference is so small? It would seem implausible that an intensive battery farm, with all its automated feeding and collection can't even half the production cost compared to one where hens happily wander fictitious fields. The truth is that free range farms are just as crowded as battery farms, but hens are crammed onto the same floor instead of vertical stacking. I'd say vent pecking and cannibalism are more pressing welfare issues than solitary confinement, but that's my personal opinion. If your guilt-free eggs are suspiciously cheap, it probably isn't what you think it is.

        • bargaino on 24/05/2023 - 16:11

          I was comparing to barn laid. Not free range, fictitious or otherwise. Thought that was clear.

    • Ughhh on 23/05/2023 - 13:28
      +5

      based on false history and fabricated evidence.

      Hang on a sec, you're the guy who uses a bible as "evidence". Oh my, the irony.

        • greatlamp on 24/05/2023 - 08:32
          +1

          Just because some use climate change as an excuse to increase prices or force through laws that benefit their donors, it doesn't make climate change fake science.

          Being intelligent means being able to understand an issue can be more complex than yes/no.

          Here is your inconvenient truth: the story of Adam is not meant to be taken literally, this is modern nonsense pushed by moron evangelists that fly jets between their concerts. When people who call themselves Christian show that they have never read any religious texts themselves and just parrot a literal interpretation of folk stories, it invalidates the stories that are based on real events.

          • inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 11:21
            -1

            @greatlamp: And you don't just parrot the folk story told 150 years ago by man qualified in theology called Darwin? Or if it is not simply a fairy tale then where is your BEST evidence? So far it seems to be fabricated Lucy.

            • greatlamp on 24/05/2023 - 12:47
              +5

              @inherentchoice: People have been able to both understand science and hold faith for thousands of years. What you are doing is being a fool, not faithful.

              Look at slides of a devoping human foetus, then compare to another mammal, a fish and a reptile. Don't need to 'make fake skeletons' when the evidence is all around you.

              Your arguments is like someone trying to convince me air doesn't exist because you can't touch it.

              Ignoring science isn't religion, it's just ignorance.

            • idonotknowwhy on 26/05/2023 - 10:05

              @inherentchoice:

              BEST evidence

              We can observe evolution very quickly by watching bacteria become resistant to antibotics.

        • DiscountForThee on 24/05/2023 - 08:37

          unless one of you has some good evidence otherwise.

          I do apologise, I am too busy worshiping my favourite teapot to be caught up in other religious

        • DiscountForThee on 24/05/2023 - 08:40
          +3

          I'm also convinced this is a decent level troll. No one can seriously be making these laughably absurd claims, and then links Elon Musk (talking about how he thinks written communication came about 5,000 years ago, not the start of humans or whatever you tried suggesting it supports) as supporting evidence. Biggest lmao of my week. I don't think anything will top this, thanks

          • inherentchoice on 24/05/2023 - 11:27
            -1

            @DiscountForThee: You're welcome to keep laughing and going along with the groupthink. If the perspective based on Darwin is beyond questioning or doubt, then that only affirms my point about groupthink.

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