Buy 2 save 5%, TLC/QLC? Apparently it’s a lotto which one you get…+ HMB (No Dram), silicon chips prices are falling, potato chips prices are rising sadly
CamelCamelCamel.
Where did you see 2 left?
Hard disk form factor 2280 Inches
Not sure it will fit..
More stocks have been added with 8% discount, 3% more than an hour ago! I assume it will be cheaper again once the current stocks run out!!! LOL it's an interesting marketing concept.
What do you mean?
Its buy 2 get 5% extra off. They've had loads of stock the whole time.
Would this be good as a secondary drive for storing games and vids/pics?
For sure
Looks like the default selection is now Amazon AU; to get price in title (and buy 2 save 5%) need to switch to manually select Amazon US as the seller.
Warning: The 2TB version has heavy lottery and there is a good chance you will get the QLC version, especially from Amazon USA. One Amazon user confirmed he received the QLC version and elected to return it to Amazon.
Have a read at the latest review: Kingston NV2 SSD Review: Cheap But Risky - Tom's Hardware Review
Batch 2246 reviewed by Tom'sHardware is QLC (year 2022, produced on week 46). Most of the 224x are unsafe although there was a report that one of 2243 being TLC (but that's purchased in Europe). Even the 1TB version could be QLC. However, the 1TB ones sold by Amazon US last year were TLC, but they were NOT Phison E21. They were the inferior Silicon Motion SMI SM2267XT. I have personally checked one of our local retailers 2TB version, I know it is SM2267XT (so I didn't get it), I do wish I noted down the batch number. The local 1TB version I bought from a local retailer here was Phison E21 and TLC version (but even so Kingston did cripple it somewhat, it is simply not as good other proper E21 TLC SSDs).
If you MUST get it because you think the price is good, best to assume you could get the QLC version. Right now, they appear to be Intel QLC with better than average QLC performance (but still bad compared to TLC). Do NOT use the reviews for 1TB version and assume you get the same performance for 2TB. A lot of reviewers received TLC version. Even Tom's Hardware received a 1TB TLC version, but they elected to show you the review for 2TB QLC version to highlight the issue.
TL;DR: there is a reason why this NV2 is cheap. NAND swap to QLC.
Ugh, I honestly don't mind minor component swaps on non-premium drives as long as performance is still in the same ballpark and it meets the advertised specs, but this is a bit much.
Amazon US doesn't process these right away so there is enough time to cancel it quickly. If you really must get the NV2 2TB, you could consider local stores (~$189) and see if you could get batch 223x. Basically, the older the better. However, it is still unsafe because there is no user data on when the switch happens. Furthermore, once you opened it, local retailers won't let you return it.
Amazon us does have free returns
@Kazusa: Do you guys want to do the research on the quickest way to determine the NAND type or you want me to post the details here?
Shane from Tom's Hardware is based in USA and he already received his. You really think you will have better luck than him to get TLC?
P.S. It's good that one of the mods has updated the description so it doesn't indicate you get TLC version (because too many USA and CA users reported they received QLC version of 2TB).
@netsurfer: People from the states were recieving tlc ones as of 15 days ago, so its certainly possible https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/zegs27/ssd_k…, also even if its qlc 99% of usecases wont show that much of a difference.
@Kazusa: That was purchased from Kingston directly. The 1 star reviews from Amazon are mostly people finding out they received the QLC version (with proof) and some are less than 15 days ago:
https://www.amazon.com.au/product-reviews/B0BDTC589G/ref=acr…
Personally, if I MUST get a 2TB NV2, I would try one of the local retailers and I want to look at the actual NV2 2TB SSD and the batch number. It doesn't make sense to me to get 2TB NV2 because:
Since you are the OP, unless you have concrete proof that people are going to get TLC version for sure, I would not state that. I agree with mods description adjustment. The later you purchase NV2, the higher the chance you get QLC.
@Kazusa: Furthermore, as I mentioned, Tom's Hardware did receive NV2 1TB TLC version. The 1TB TLC version is faster to test, yet Tom's Hardware, noticing this QLC swap issue on 2TB, has elected to do the review for 2TB QLC version first. Also, Tom's Hardware also mentioned there is no guarantee one will get TLC version for 1TB. Do you know why? Because there are already reports from users that they've got QLC version for their NV2 1TB.
The right thing to do is to tell people the risks. Don't get me wrong, I do hope for those who still elect to buy this from Amazon USA, they will get the TLC version. It's just I need to let people know the risks. Majority of people reported they received 2TB QLC version are from North America (USA and Canada).
The QLC NAND swap is bad. The swap to use inferior type of SMI controller adds insult to injury. SMI does have a controller that competes with Phison E21, but Kingston obviously elected to opt to get a cheaper controller.
So you’re saying local retailers like PLE 1TB NV2’s should be TLC? 👀
The NV2 1TB I bought in December locally was Phison E21 based (better chipset) and TLC. For 1TB version, you can tell it is Phison E21 if there is a silver bit of controller chipset exposed above the QR code part of the label. Amazon USA version (was down to $85 if you purchased one of those bookmarks or purchased 2 of them) was TLC but SMI chipset. Tom's Hardware received TLC version of 1TB so there is a good chance there are still some TLC versions of 1TB around in USA and Canada.
Local stock Kingston batch 2234 (1TB) is TLC, Phison E21
Amazon stock Kingston batch 2239 (1TB) is TLC, SM2267XT
So you’re saying local retailers like PLE 1TB NV2’s should be TLC?
No, they might be TLC, but even if they are now, they will eventually all be QLC. Amazon USA might still be selling NV1 1TB TLC version.
For the same (ish) price point, would you recommend any alternatives? SN570? etc
@kaij: SN570 deal is gone. I am trying to get hold of a 2TB SN570 to test (because there are conflicting reports on its performance and the popular reviewers only reviewed the 1TB version). Until I've tested it, I cannot recommend it. SN570 has 5 year warranty, and WD has the guts to put TLC in the specs (although, we know there are various different grades of TLC NANDs).
Personally, the 2TB SSD I have is WD SN850X (heatsink version) $287. I also bought the 2TB WD P50 (probably SN750 equivalent) for $200.
The store which has decent NV2 2TB price is far from where I live, otherwise, I would drive there to just find out which batch they stock. However, for 2TB, I prefer to get a quality one, that's why I am not really interested in NV2 2TB (3 years warranty is annoying for 2TB). 1TB for $85 was cheap enough for me to be a toy. I am actually hoping that Kingston will lower the price of NV2 2TB to $140-$150.
Got the NV2 1TB sm2267xt tlc version, does this version beat the phison e21 one in long term write speed? I didn't really test it extensively, but going by what others with the same drive say it is hovering at around 1200 mBps when slc runs out and then 600-200 mBps towards the last 10% of the drive.
One other thing I pop the NV2 in an old skylake motherboard and the drive can not be recognised at all, but it works fine in a zen 2 laptop, what gives, so strange, compatibility issue?
And I do wonder if the total write endurance of the drive is correct, don't all tlc drives of 1tb rate up to 600tb?
@alu: I have not got around to test 1TB Phison E21 vs 1TB SM2267XT is full write test. From what I know, they both use the same type of TLC NAND so I expect them to be the same. After SLC cache runs out, 1TB Phison E21 version writes at ~600MB/s, but once it reaches 80% mark, it is forced to do recovery (because parts of the data was written in SLC mode, so to reclaim the space back, it has to re-write / recover in TLC mode), so the write drops to around 250MB.
From my limited testing, I found E21 better in terms of general lower queue depth performance (but not by a huge margin) and generally better performance when used in an enclosure (I tested both Thunderbolt and USB-C 3.2 gen 2 enclosures). SM2267XT is inferior through USB-C or Thunderbolt.
I don't have a Skylake PC anymore. Some suggestions, update BIOS if it is not the latest. If the motherboards have 2 m.2 slots, and you tried it on the second slot, then you cannot use the PCIe x4 slot (it looks like a PCIe x16 slot, but it is not the one for the GPU, that one is a true PCIe x16 slot). So, if there is a card on the PCIe x4 slot, it needs to be removed.
And I do wonder if the total write endurance of the drive is correct, don't all tlc drives of 1tb rate up to 600tb?
600TB TBW is normally the standard for 1TB TLC SSD. However, that's actually another hint that Kingston intended to use QLC, the TBW is aimed at QLC. Also, Kingston is only doing 3 years warranty on these so it would lower that TBW (600TB is normally for 5 years). There is another worrying sign for us NV2 1TB TLC owners, should we require a warranty replacement, by then, we will most likely be getting a 1TB QLC version, unless the retailer is kind enough to offer full refund being an option.
@alu: Just a quick update. I attempted to do a sustained write test using HDTune Pro. It turns out to be a bad idea.
So this is the Phison E21 NV2 1TB zero write test result on PCIe gen 3 x4 (as mentioned before E21 cheats in this type of test):
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/25097/100869/hdtune-nv…
I know E21 cheats because in PCIe gen 4 x4, E21 can even reach 6000MB/s in zero fill test. Note: all tests were done in zero fill mode.
https://files.ozbargain.com.au/upload/25097/100559/nv2-zero.…
To make the matter worse, zero fill test does not appear to hamper the SLC cache in E21. This is an issue because if I were to repeat the test again right away, SM2267XT would be in SLC recovery state, which won't be able to write at top speed (it would write entirely in TLC mode).
So right now, I am leaving the PC on with SM2267XT NV2 1TB to let the SLC cache recovery complete while I look for a better app. NV2's SLC recovery time (E21 or SM2267XT) isn't great.
Between the two, E21 generally performs better (although in day to day use, you probably won't notice a big difference). However, in my tests so far, especially at PCIe gen 3 x4, E21 appears to get better results. This is expected because SMI does have a chipset that competes with E21, it is just Kingston has elected not to use that one. Had Kingston used that particular chipset, it would have been very interesting. But my SM2267XT NV2 is $10 cheaper.
@alu: Based on my quick re-test (which is still in progress), the sustained write appears to be the same for SM2267XT (compared to TechPowerUp's E21 result), at least in terms of SLC cache size. The final phase of mandatory cell recovery (due to the use of SLC cache initially) soon after 80% filled also happened in my test with my SM2267XT 1TB NV2.
After SLC cache is depleted, it drops to 600-700MB/s. I did not observe an intermediate drop to 1200MBps you mentioned (though I did see a user's chart showing that, but that was on a QLC 2TB, and I feel that is inaccurate, potentially thermal protection kicks in). In that case, the SLC cache write drop to 1200MBps was undesirable.
For NV2 1TB sustained write, there is no significant difference between Phison E21 and SM2267XT (excluding zero fill tests, which Phison E21 cheats big time). Open case test, no heat sink, good air flow, pretty sure no thermal restriction during test.
Bought 2 NV2 2TB from BPC Tech last November for $199 each. They are TLC(Toshiba 112L) but SMI controller(SM2267XT)
I only wish I understood what you’re trying to say :-(.
Can someone explain why this is a problem? I’ve no idea what tlc qlc nand might mean…
Non-technical version:
If you don't care about filling a large chuck of data onto this SSD in one go often, then it is probably still fine. Problem is, if the true write performance dropped by ~200% (when not thermal throttled), shouldn't the price be much cheaper? We now know why Kingston only offers 3 years warranty (because Kingston would use inferior parts).
Additional technical info:
| Full Drive Fill Test | Time (lower is better) |
|---|---|
| NV2 2TB TLC | 74 minutes 6 Seconds |
| NV2 2TB QLC (User 1) | 120 minutes 51 seconds |
| NV2 2TB QLC (User 2) | 303 minutes 35 seconds |
| NV2 1TB TLC (User 2) | ~34 minutes |
| Samsung 980 Pro 2TB | 17 minutes 56 seconds |
It's unclear why user 2's NV2 2TB QLC write result was so bad. That user did have a NV2 1TB TLC and the user reported a full write took 34 minutes. His read test for NV2 2TB QLC appeared normal (fast enough). My guess would be for user 2, the thermal protection kicked in so the performance literally dropped by 200% (so overall write performance was 400% worse than TLC)
If you cannot resist and still want to get it, after receiving the SSD, run the following utility:
http://vlo.name:3000/tmph/smi_nvme_flash_id.rar
There is close to zero chance you get Phison E21 version for 2TB so I only put the URL for the SMI controller). Unrar the file (if you don't have any utility to unrar it, download 7zip), run the utility, choose the SSD, it will tell you whether that SSD has Kioxia 112-layer BiCS5 TLC or Intel’s 144-layer QLC. Kioxia is Toshiba. The QLC version does use pSLC cache so you do need to write over 562GB in one go in order to hit 240MB/s QLC sustained write. Thus, it is quicker to just use the utility.
For me, it is not that Kingston cannot swap to use QLC. It's that Kingston should lower the price of NV2 2TB QLC version.
PS5 compatible?
Runs fine in a ps5 currently, unless a future game utilises the full bandwidth it will be fine, even then you can probably just install that game in the internal ps5 storage
Yes, even for the QLC version, it is still PCIe gen 4. The pSLC cache on the 2TB version is 561GB so probably just enough for you not to notice the issue when you first moved games from the internal SSD to the m.2. Obviously, avoid moving back and forth between those two (probably unlikely).
However, if you do have a decent USB 3.2 gen 2 external SSD, you could notice copying large number of games from that SSD to this m.2 NVMe SSD can get so slow (and it could be this SSD being slow at writing).
It meets the PCIe Gen 4 requirement.
However this is a PCIe Gen 4 SSD with PCIe Gen 3 performance.
I've got the 1tb in my ps5 and works just fine at the moment
Not exactly. Reasons are:
P32A60's main advantage is 5 years warranty. Unfortunately, there is still no cost effective 2TB NVMe SSDs with decent or above average performance. Majority of them cut corners. Also, at 2TB, properly implemented QLC could rival and even beat poorly implemented TLC SSD.
Yes and No. That drive is only Gen 3 (so, lower top speed than this one), but that one will likely have much better sustained performance than this drive (as it is TLC not QLC) and better real-world performance if using as a boot drive (as it has DRAM, which the drive in this deal lacks).
TL;DR: Depends on your application.
It seems yes then as I am just looking for a bit faster storage really :) Thx
You know your needs best. If you need/want a 4TB, then there is no point getting a 2TB SSD.
The only real reason you want to use NV2's PCIe gen 4 part is if you want to use it with PS5 (and you are being pragmatic about it because game developers care more about fps optimisation and they are not going to develop a game where if your SSD is not fast enough, it will crash).
For those who just want the TL;DR
TLC = Tender Loving Care
QLC = Quaint Luxurious Carpet
Is this drive worth it?
I have zero fkn clue anymore.
TL;DR: with 41 + votes so far, unless you REALLY need it, this is simply a FOMO (fear of missing out) purchase.
2 left with 5% off normal standard price. What a bargain!