Flatmate/Tenant Starts Smoking inside Apartment. Need Advice

Hi OzBargain friends,

Short version:
What should I do if the flatmate (also tenant) in my apartment starts to smoke indoors but in the agreement I signed with him has no terms on whether “smoking is not allowed inside the property”? Tried to talk with them but it didn’t work well.

Long version:
My friend recently moved to Canberra and rented a 2-bedroom apartment in the city, she has to rent out the other room since the rent is not one-person-friendly. She is new as a landlord and didn’t realise there are people that smoke inside the room, so she used the ACT tenancy template and didn’t say anything about whether smoking is allowed on premises.

A couple moved in 3 month ago, started put strong fragrance in the living room and said it is their tradition/culture where they came from so my friend showed respect. She also noticed the couple smoking and thought she shouldn’t overreact as long as they only smoke on the balcony.

But recently, the couple started smoking in the living room. Due to respect my friend texted them, talked with them face to face that smoking shouldn’t be allowed indoors, but the couple responded that it is cold outside so they have to smoke inside, and they can’t live without cigarettes, also they claimed my friend is a private lessor not an agency so should not ask them doing this and that.

The lease still has 2.5 month left. I know in certain tenancy agreement there’re context such like “quiet enjoyment” that can including second-hand smoking. However, in their agreement there is no terms on smoking, is there anything my friend can do or any help can seek to avoid this situation, instead of suffering for another 2 more month?

It makes me quite uncomfortable when people refuse to talk sense but I have no idea what can be done other than talking this out with the tenant. At the same time, my mind was like, what if someone super loves durian and places it everywhere in the house, or someone likes the smell of boiling vinegar and starts doing so on a daily basis?

Thanks for any advice and regards,

Update 1:
Thanks all for the inputs quite a lot of them are very inspiring, and I have had my friend read them through carefully. We would compose an email and send it to the couple, and see their response. It might include
* smoking inside the apartment is not acceptable
* consequence if they continue smoking inside the apartment (she can force them to move out?)
* options for them (either smoke outside and find a solution themselves or move out in 2 weeks, either way, they have to pay for the cost to remove the odour on the property)
with documents attached:
* strata bylaws
* influence of smoking on other ppl's health
* research of smoke can reach other areas of the apartment ( if I can find, because they claim they are smoking in the living room and my friend won't be able to smell it in the bedroom, even though the property is not big)

Another question is, what if the couple simply ignore the email, like what they did for the text message? I don't think my friend will be able to carry an extinguisher or a hose, etc.

And seems I missed a detail that may be related, before they started smoking inside the apartment they approached my friend and told her they gonna move out and want their bond back immediately since they would need that to pay for the new bond. My friend explained that they can't do that because before they moved in, they have agreed that they would pay the rent till the end of the lease or til the replacement tenant comes if they decide to move out early (whichever happens first), and it is part of the agreement; as for the bond, she can only refund it after they completed the cleaning and there is no damage to the property.

I didn't put it in the story in the first place because I thought those terms are quite reasonable and they seemed to agree with that after my friend's explanation. And what made me annoyed is the smoking thing and I don't know what to say back other than telling them smoking is not allowed in the apartment when they simply ignored it.

Lesson learnt so far for the new landlord:
1. Attach a sheet of extra terms of what you don't want your tenant to do, to the official template and make it as detailed as possible
2. Better screen your tenant

Update 2:
Again thanks everyone for the input. The tenants stoped paying the rent yesterday and emailed my friend that they will move out in 2 weeks. They wants the 2 weeks rent to be deducted from the deposit, and another 2 weeks’ deposit as cleaning fees when they leave.

When my friend arrived home at night, they already moved out. End of story.

Comments

  • +9

    You start to make an awful smell inside (the tenant will dislike), so they go smoke outside.

    Fight fire with fire. Because, it's your tradition/culture, so the tenant should respect that.

    • +21

      I’m afraid at the end of the day it will be like sorcery vs sorcery, and becomes pretty nasty..

    • +3

      Speak for yourself pam, not everyone hangs out the balcony naked.

      hello pam. Long time no hello.

    • Classic Pam.

      • I would love to see a world where Pam and Slavoz get together. Maybe like captain planet, combining powers. The possibilities are endless….

    • +4

      Tough, no one wants to smell cigarette smoke.

    • What brand are the ciggarettes?

  • +25

    So your friend leased a place and is subletting to others too?
    That in itself is a big issue…

    Can’t imagine many if any landlords/rental agencies that would be happy with smoking indoors.

    If the additional tenants were on the lease at least they could be held accountable.unfortunately it seems they are not though…

    So when it comes time to vacate and the house stinks of cigarettes, your friend is gonna be in for some pain paying for their subletted tenants poor manners and habits.

    • +1

      thanks for the input. subletting is allowed in her agreement with landlord so I assume it will be fine, but as you mentioned it would be better if the new tenants can be added as co-tenants in the first place. and also right that the smell of cigarettes can be a problem that should be dealt with properly at the end of the lease…

      • +3

        Does your friends rental contract say they are allowed to sublet or is it just a verbal agreement from the landlord?

        I’d imagine either way the legal onus to keep the property clean and damage free will fall on to who ever is named on the lease.

        • There’s a term in the original lease agreement that the tenant can subletting the room. But unfortunately she didn’t update the new couples names on it, so as you said if the property has smell my friend is responsible for that at the end.

    • -1

      So your friend leased a place and is subletting to others too?
      That in itself is a big issue…

      It's a legal right to sublet a lease

      • -1

        That would entirely depend on the original lease agreement.
        Most would prohibit it.

        • That's not correct, in a general tenancy agreement statute prohibits contracting out of a right to sublease

  • +42

    Make it clear that in 2.5 months they will be moving out and the bond will be used for a cleaner to scrub every surface clean of the nictotine residue.

    • +7

      This. But make this clear in writing. Email or text.

    • +6

      Including dry cleaning any curtains.

    • +6

      thanks vary fair point. Will send a email stating the consequence, if they smoke indoors, bond will be deducted for cleaning purposes - cleaning every corner that might has nicotine residues

      • +2

        Don't do this! If you tell them now that you will be taking their bond then they will just stop paying the rent now!!!
        Leave it until the end and then try claiming some of the bond for extra cleaning if you believe you can prove that the place actually needs more cleaning.

    • +5

      Most likely they will stop paying any rents which will result more pain. May be wait a week or two before the end of the lease.

      • +1

        If they aren’t on the lease guess where their possessions are going?

  • +13

    Bikies
    .

    • +8

      Good to see Bikies making a late run to the top 10 this month.

      Motorbikes indoors are a bit of a worry, but that will probably interrupt their smoking while they run for cover.

      • At least the shotguns will overpower the noise of the bikes indoors.

    • Lame

  • +4

    https://justice.act.gov.au/renting-and-occupancy-laws could try calling one of the numbers here for advice.

    Also look into a air purifier.

    • thanks for the link, will get in touch with them and see what can be done.

      looking into air purifier deals now..

      • You want one with a charcoal filter as it is good for smoke

  • +15

    "friend"

  • +18

    Buy them a puffer jacket for outside. I believe the Halo is Ozbargain's choice.

    What lowlifes smoke inside in a shared place these days? Your friend should have said she has asthma or similar though that may not make a difference. Maybe she can start coughing profusely all around them.

    A risky option could be contacting the landlord and getting their view. I doubt they want people smoking inside.

    • +2

      I may not want to buy them anything but I got your point.

      I never smoke or even tried to, but I respect other peoples choices, only please keep a distance. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any laws or anything can enforce ppl not to smoke inside the shared apartment.

      Also I don’t think they care even if I say I have asthma or cancer, careless people cares nothing.

      And since her contract is not listing the couple as tenants at the moment, idk if contacting the agency would help or not.

      • +4

        Up until the last paragraph, this "friend" seems to actually be you?

        • lol we are close:D

      • It can’t hurt to contact the agency. The agency and landlord would not be happy about people smoking in their property and they have more knowledge and resources to try to put a stop to it.

  • +14

    Sounds like it is time to look for different flat mates. Until you get rid of them ask them to restrict their smoking to their own room. If the excuse it is too cold then they shouldn’t have a problem doing that. Smoking has nothing to do with tradition or culture unless they are Rastafarian and are smoking dope, in which case that is a whole new level of problems.

    I would give these people notice, now, that they will need to find alternative accomodation when the agreement ends and start looking for alternative room mates. Include a smoking clause this time. Sounds like your friend needs a better vetting system for tenants. This lot seem to be trouble.

    • +2

      Doesn't matter if they smoke in their room, if they smoke indoors at all whoever is on the official lease is going to cop getting no bond back

      • thanks, will double check in the act leasing agreement for the bond, hope can find any thing related to smoking or unpleasant smell.

    • Fair point. I will notice them if they have to smoke indoors, keep it in their own room, and bond will cover the cost of remove those nicotine residues as suggested above.

      Lesson learnt to include as much details as possible when making a agreement sharing an accommodation.

  • +22

    Smoking indoors should not be tolerated anywhere, especially in a house-sharing situation. In my opinion, you can probably kick them out if they don't agree to stop. I'm sure there is legal precedent. Smoking causes cancer, including passive smoking. It also makes the insides of cars and houses smell horrible (permanently).

    • +12

      Even when I lived in sharehouses (which was not long ago) full of smokers we all agreed not to smoke inside. It's gross and makes it smell like grandma's house.

      • My grandma’s house smell like roses. She didn’t smoke.

    • +1

      agree, when composing the email I will later get some academic research report second hand smoking on health, since when my friend confronted with them, the lady said she was smoking in the living room and my friend wouldn’t smell it.

      • +7

        I think trying to reason with them is the wrong way to go about this as it leaves room for debate. Your friend is the leaseholder and they don't want smoking in the house, end of discussion. If they don't like it they can move out.

      • I wouldn’t overwhelm them with information and research. These people sound like scumbags and are acting selfishly. They’ll only respond to firmness.

        “Hello, as my attempt to address thie smoking issue in a friendly manner was not productive I thought I’d write you and make my position more clear. I am the leaseholder. I strongly dislike the smell of cigarette smoke and the health effects of second hand smoke are well established. I will not tolerate this. You will stop smoking indoors immediately or you will vacate the premises in two weeks. Your bond will be released after the property is cleaned and you have vacated the premises, as is accepted practice.”

        If they choose to vacate you can withhold some of the bond for extra cleaning.

  • Just suck it up for 2.5 months. I don't like people who wants you to respect their tradition but don't give it shit about yours.

    • +2

      My tradition is spraying every surface of your house with fart spray, will you respect it?

      • +1

        Sure, if you respect my tradition of spraying every surface of you with shit spray first.

    • The problem is what the person will be sucking up might kill them.

  • Get a airpurifer and start

    • It’ll be a waste of coin. Would be fine if you already owned one. Don’t they require filter changes?

  • +7

    start walking around naked, and leaving you feces on the coffee table, and say its how you roll
    play heavy metal at 4am in the lounge
    stop showering

    they are clearly ignorant

    • +2

      careless and ignorant. my friend has early morning shifts 7 days a week, don’t think the battle will benefit either party

  • +18

    Open all the windows make it as cold as outside. At the very least you have air circulation.

    • +1

      This is exactly what I would do.

    • This is the best solution so far

  • +8

    If the lease is in her name it's her call, that's basic sharehouse etiquette. Tell them that if they can't live without cigarettes and can't handle the cold, buy a vape.

    • Tell them that if they can't live without cigarettes and can't handle the cold, buy a vape.

      thanks will add this in the email too

      • +6

        Don't.
        Do not get involved in that manner by giving them alternatives/encourage them smoking.

        Just state it is unacceptable, end of sentence.
        If they want to smoke, do it outside. If too cold, they can go find a solution themselves. Like a jacket. Quit and go cold turkey. Or use patches or gum. But it's upto them to do so, not you.

        Be firm.

        • Vapes wont stink the house up tho

          • @Tightbungholio2: Tell that to my ex-housmates who had vape-weed and used it everyday :\

            • @Kangal: Yeah but i mean vaping weed will smell if its dry herb especially not so much vape oil

  • +5

    Tried to talk with them but it didn’t work well.

    Give them notice, find a replacement.

    • They'll feel the cold when they're out on their ass!

  • +2

    hmm, if they're not willing to stop smoking what's the bet they're not willing to vacate in 2.5 months?

    • before this smoking issue occurred, they approached to my friend and said they want to move out and want their bond back. My friend explained their agreement again said if they want to moved out they have to find a replacement or paid rent till the next tenant moves in.

      It seems to me like they want to move out, but want their bond back too.

      so this whole thing may end up with my friend asking them moving out and giving them bond back, paying the full rent till finding another tenant - bad people win

      • +11

        Ok well there's your reason for why they're smoking inside now. Tell your friend to cut their losses and let them move out with bond (minus any damages) or else they're just going to try and make your friends life as uncomfortable as possible until she gives in.

        • +3

          bingo - key part of the puzzle right here. They are doing it to make your friend uncomfortable on purpose.
          Options:
          1 - let them leave, cop the financial loss
          2 - force them to stay, put up with it, then likely still have some financial loss but maybe less
          3 - escalate the situation and make life miserable for everybody (them and you), probably still have a financial loss as well

          I'd go option 1, but need to do what feels right to you acknowledging that they are clearly in the wrong in the first place but that they also have zero social graces or any sense of right or wrong and so all options will feel a bit crap

          • @sternocleido: I agree with your choice, she might do the same knowing it might be the only option. It may be the best option but I still feel like it's not right since bad people win, or get what they want without paying any consequence for breaking a contract, sigh.

        • +2

          As a bit of revenge just get the house professionally de-smoked and take that off the bond. :)

      • +1

        before this smoking issue occurred, they approached to my friend and said they want to move out and want their bond back.

        Ugh. OP, this is important information that you should have included in the description above. Tell your 'friend' to surrender the bond and get them out. Bond amount is not worth the aggravation.

  • +8

    Ah, the immense joys that come from living with randoms.

    • true but, sigh..

    • We all have our stories

  • Go there and light up with them. They are probably really nice people who just happen to have a terrible cough.

  • +3

    I feel terrible for your mate OP. Nobody should have to put up with such disrespectful and vile people.
    A lot of default rental agreements have the scope to allow for subletting but it's worth noting that for such subletting to be valid and legally binding the subtenants still need to be approved in writing by the landlord. Was this ever done in writing? If not then their lease is not valid and your friend should just kick them out and return their bond.
    You might also want to look for a loophole in the strata by-laws etc that might help get rid of them.
    I'd recommend posting this thread on propertychat as the folks there know the state tenancy laws back to front and might find a way to help your friend. Cheers!

    • thanks for the input will try and update here

  • +1

    Hire an agent and let them deal with this problem.

    I don't personally recommend being your own property manager.

  • +1

    Does your lease your friend's lease with the apartment owner contain any terms relating to smoking? Does the sub-lease pass through any of those conditions, or does it have its own cleanliness and damage obligations?

    Mine doesn't explicitly address smoking, but it could be implied that certain terms do, e.g.

    4) Cleanliness
    a) The Landlord shall make sure that the premises are in reasonably clean condition on the day on which it is agreed that the Tenant shall enter occupation of the premises.
    b) The Tenant shall keep the premises in a reasonably clean condition during the period of Agreement.

    I would interpret that as if there was no existing smoke smell in the "reasonably clean condition" that the lease started in, then the Tenant is not fulfilling their obligation to keep the premises in a reasonably clean condition.

    411AB Matters that may be subject of bond claim
    (1) Without limiting the matters for which a residential rental provider may claim from a bond, a residential rental provider is entitled to claim an amount of bond for the following—
    (a) the reasonable cost of repairs to, or the restoration of, the rented premises or goods leased with the premises, as a result of damage caused by the renter or a renter's visitor, taking into account fair wear and tear;
    (b) any rent or other charges owing and payable under the residential rental agreement or this Act;
    (c) the reasonable cost of cleaning any part of the premises, if the premises were not left reasonably clean by the renter, having regard to the condition of the premises at the commencement of the residential rental agreement;

    From the Residential Tenancies Act in Vic, the costs to repair/restore/clean the premises can be claimed from the bond.

    The NSW Tenancies Act will likely be different to the Vic one, so you your friend will need to check out the relevant pieces to support their case.

    • thanks for sharing this, I’ll later put them in the email and see if they are anything close to reasonable.

  • +1

    When I lived in CBR, I was in a rental. As I was still a smoker then, I rugged up and had smokoes on the balcony. It never even occurred to me to smoke indoors. It just seems so awful. It wasn't even a share house.

    I mean, I was the only smoker, and I didn't want my wife and kid to be inhaling that. It boggles the mind that some people think it's perfectly ok.

    • My Auntie used to smoke on the porch of her own home. She also didn't want her husband and kids smelling it.

  • +4

    Does the landlord permit smoking inside? If not, point the sublets to the original lease.

  • +3

    when they smoke inside, turn the bloody hose on them.

  • Amber Heard on their beds, claim it as tradition….It will mask the smell of tobaccy for sure

  • +5

    They are likely to be considered lodgers, not renters. Give them one week notice and tell them to move out.

    https://www.tenants.org.au/factsheet-14-boarders-and-lodgers

  • +2

    Tell your friend to buy a fire extinguisher and use it next time they decide to smoke indoors.

  • +3

    They are shitheads if they aren't smoking outside. Especially if they have a balcony available to them.

    That's coming from a smoker myself.

  • +3

    As a smoker, I'm actually surprised they haven't banned tobacco yet. Can't wait until they make tobacco illegal, and actually force me to quit.

    • You'll probably end up using Nicotine gum in that case.

  • Fire extinguisher aimed at their head… either releasing the powder or just using the whole extinguisher

  • +2

    lol. 'can't live without cigarettes', deserves to be outright laughed at, extreme weakling low IQ behaviour. What does the owner think about the crippling devaluing of their property currently ocurring? What if it gets blamed on your 'friend'?

    It sounds like you (your friend..) will just be used as a door mat unless a total change in attitude occurs. I like the fire extinguisher idea

  • +3

    Throw their shit outside and change the locks.

    The bond will not cover the cost to fix the place. I had the same issue with curry smell from tennants. Was told to remove carpet and curtains after 2x steam cleans, and to paint the walls….. that isn't cheap.

  • +4

    life lessons - for future tenants, ask before if they smoke, state that smoking will not be allowed by them or any of their visitors, and specify clearly first verbally to gauge their reaction that smoking will result in eviction without notice, and bond will be withheld for cleaning, and they may not treat the bond as final rent, then include that as a clear statement in the written agreement you get them to sign before they move in.

    sounds like they may be acting as a nasty power couple to manipulate you and the female new landlord - two against one at a time.

    One way to deflect blame is to refer to a third party - 'sorry but the landlord regards this as damage to their property, and said this is not allowed, or you will be evicted'

    Experience is the name we give to our mistakes - having made all the mistakes after 40 years as a DIY landlord, that makes me some kind of expert … ;-)

    I like the lodger thing - wait until they have paid the next ?2 weeks rent, then give them one weeks notice - change the locks while they're out if they don't, so you eat the minimum loss of rent. To avoid any confrontation, bring your largest male friend to loom over them and leer at them threateningly if they arc up. Big guy with tattoos won't need to speak - just look scary - worst case they could leer and say quietly 'we don't want any problems here, DO WE … ?'

    • thanks for the comment above,

      sounds like they may be acting as a nasty power couple to manipulate you and the female new landlord - two against one at a time.

      apparently, my friend is not good at arguing with people in English, not even in her own language.

      One way to deflect blame is to refer to a third party - 'sorry but the landlord regards this as damage to their property, and said this is not allowed, or you will be evicted'

      will add it in the email.

      I like the lodger thing - wait until they have paid the next ?2 weeks rent, then give them one weeks notice - change the locks while they're out if they don't, so you eat the minimum loss of rent. To avoid any confrontation, bring your largest male friend to loom over them and leer at them threateningly if they arc up. Big guy with tattoos won't need to speak - just look scary - worst case they could leer and say quietly 'we don't want any problems here, DO WE … ?'

      Idk if this is viable but I got your point.

  • +1

    Kick them out obviously.

    But next time one question it is critical to ask any prospective flatmates is 'Do you smoke?', it's just not worth the headache.

  • +1

    An agreement is an agreement. Even though your friend is not the agency, it is still enforceable. Advise them to stop or they can FO.

    Smoking in the house when there are non-smokers around is an extremely rude behaviour.

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