Workplace Rejecting My Leave Request. Is It Reasonable?

hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 18:34
Last edited 17/03/2022 - 16:13

I'm a Victorian employee with a large corporate, and am eligible to both annual leave and long service leave. I recently decided to take a minimum of six months off (at half-pay) and wanted to start in April.

I spoke with my manager (who also discussed with his manager), and both of them don't see it feasible for me to take this time off. They are still willing to allow me to take up to two months off in April/May, but require me back for June/July/August as it's busy period. That was the biggest reason to reject my leave request.

On one hand:

  • I understand that our team gets busy during certain periods and they need team-members to be around for it;
  • Potentially making life harder for the rest of the team by not being around; and
  • My leave request is only 1 month in advance, which might not be adequate for planning purposes

On the other hand:

  • Busy period still only starts in 3-4 months so there is plenty of time to pre-plan a replacement;
  • I'm still the most junior person in the team, so it feels a bit unfair that I'm supposedly that 'essential' for business operations;
  • I'm legally entitled to LSL and annual leave;
  • Covid situation has only started settling now, so pre-planning leave didn't feel feasible until recently;
  • Feeling significant mental exhaustion/anxiety from this role, and I really want/need time off.

What are my options here? Are they being reasonable in this situation? Should I just resign and go on leave (LSL and Annual leave will get paid out)?

I found some guidance here, but it does appear it's a subjective matter:
https://lawpath.com.au/blog/can-employers-refuse-long-servic…
https://lawpath.com.au/blog/can-employer-refuse-annual-leave

PS: Parents and partner would prefer me to not to resign. I feel ok taking the risk as I genuinely don't enjoy it.
PPS: Thanks for all the replies so far. I will definitely be reading them all, although may not respond to everyone.

EDIT: Resignation has been put-in, and I'll look to travel overseas at some stage.

Education & Work

Comments

  • garetz on 10/03/2022 - 18:39
    +47

    Businesses hire based on having their employees available to do their job. I have never heard of anyone as a junior level get more than 3 months leave ever.

    Asking for 6 months leave is pretty unreasonable for any business.

    Take the leave that is offered, if you take mental health leave, i do not think you get paid for that.

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 18:48
      +15

      When I say junior I mean in the context of the team. I have technically been there 7+ years, hence the LSL.

      Also, why shouldn't I be able to take leave off longer than 3 months. I'm eligible for it, and others do often take 6-12 months parental or full-time study leave (eg MBA). Why is my situation that much different.

        • altomic on 10/03/2022 - 21:53
          +13

          Some places now allow LSL pro rata after 7 years .

        • warkolm on 11/03/2022 - 08:57
          +11

          I'm a Victorian employee

          https://www.vic.gov.au/long-service-leave

          After at least 7 years’ continuous employment with one employer, an employee is entitled to:

          take their long service leave
          be paid any unused long service leave entitlement if employment ends.

        • Kayrhcp on 12/03/2022 - 08:04
          +44

          Why are you correcting a dude who clearly knows he has LSL

      • Quantumcat on 11/03/2022 - 08:28
        +18

        Why not ask for the 6 months starting September, so it is after the busy period? Then you can enjoy it while it's summer too.

      • drfuzzy on 12/03/2022 - 15:57

        Why are you still the most junior after obtaining 7 years experience?

        • aleayr on 12/03/2022 - 21:17
          +7

          Because others have been there longer and the team has no turn over?

    • Stoozer on 11/03/2022 - 09:41
      +6

      Shame you don't work for the public sector, they would rather you took 6 months or more leave as it allows them to justify a replacement. This is not usually possible for a short 2 month leave.

    • Vote for Pedro on 11/03/2022 - 21:47
      +6

      How dare someone take leave they are entitled to.

    • serpserpserp on 12/03/2022 - 07:49

      I had 6 months off as a junior in a big corp. they were able to cover with the wider team.

      Mental health leave probably covered under sick leave.

      • Tambani on 13/03/2022 - 14:43
        -1

        Mental health leave is covered under sick leave, so long as you can prove it, just like any other illness.

  • Stewardo on 10/03/2022 - 18:40
    +12

    Quitting would be an option.

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 18:50
      -1

      Yep, open to it honestly. Just the risk of not having a job afterwards.

      • iNeed2Pee on 10/03/2022 - 19:00
        +14

        Don't worry about that yet! Look after your health

      • BewareOfThe Dog on 11/03/2022 - 11:40
        +3

        I had a work colleague that quit his job 3 years ago for a similar reason. He is still looking for work, and as soon as someone rings for a reference management bags him out.

        I quit for a similar reason 15 years ago (franchisee obviously studied Mein Kampf) , and it was near impossible finding a similar role, with similar conditions. I ended up buying a business and life spiralled badly after that.

        • Poor Ass on 12/03/2022 - 00:35

          what business did you buy?

        • serpserpserp on 12/03/2022 - 07:52
          +6

          as soon as someone rings for a reference management bags him out.

          Why would he use people that speak negatively about him for a reference? Something sounds off.

          I've never had an employer just randomly ring up my old work places sniffing around for an old manager to talk to. My references are generally never my direct manager (although you should always stay amicable with them and discuss them being a reference before you apply for jobs if you need to.)

          • lulzenberg on 12/03/2022 - 10:28
            +4

            @serpserpserp: It is illegal to give an inaccurate reference - if they are bagging him out and it is not true, there is reason for litigation there. References that cause loss of income by not getting a job, if the reference was not accurate, they can be held liable for the lost potential income from a job.

          • star-ggg on 12/03/2022 - 11:57
            +1

            @serpserpserp: Many places ask for reference from a previous manager as policy.

            • serpserpserp on 12/03/2022 - 18:24

              @star-ggg: Never seen that in policy from the more than a handful of places I've worked for. Places where I have given references have never specifically asked for previous manager's reference.

              • dizzle on 12/03/2022 - 19:06

                @serpserpserp: If I see the previous manager is not a reference, it's enough of a red flag for me to ask about it in an interview. I've also answered that question in an interview and I believe you need an answer that doesn't disparage the previous employer either.

                I've had employees that I've fired that would still get a decent reference. I wouldn't talk them up too much, but they weren't bad enough for me to hurt them.

                I've only had one employee that asked me to be a reference, where I told him that it wouldn't be a good idea.

            • gimme on 12/03/2022 - 21:23

              @star-ggg: Funny thing is that you can put down a mate a tell them he's your ex boss. Ref checks is mostly a tick box activity and rarely anyone goes to the extent of valudating.

              • star-ggg on 13/03/2022 - 10:10

                @gimme: This the only way to do it if you worked somewhere for 2+ years and didn't finish on good terms with your manager.

                • gimme on 13/03/2022 - 10:20

                  @star-ggg: Yea also some ppl don't want their mgrs to know that they're interviewing just in case they don't get the job.

              • kiitos on 14/03/2022 - 13:59

                @gimme: The most recent one I did as referee required me to sign up to a website and give a lot of details about myself as manager of this person, it was a bit pushy but I did it for my ex colleague, but it might make a mate doing a dodgy think twice.

          • [Deactivated] on 12/03/2022 - 20:54
            +1

            @serpserpserp: Yeah. And also, I may be wrong but if you can’t find a job after 3 years, you aren’t trying hard enough.

        • star-ggg on 12/03/2022 - 12:04
          +1

          The system is broken because it puts the blame on you if your relationship with the previous manager was bad. My advice is to start looking for new work as soon as your manager throws up red flags. It is much easier to explain away a short tenure than to have a bad reference from a manager of 2+ years.

          • serpserpserp on 12/03/2022 - 18:25
            +1

            @star-ggg: I think it is quite easy to explain away. A lot of people get an interview and then don't get a job and tell their mates stories like "must have been my old boss that torpedeo'ed it". Could be they just didn't progress/get an offer.

            • star-ggg on 12/03/2022 - 19:00

              @serpserpserp: All my reference checks have been conducted when verbal offer has been accepted and the formal offer is conditional on passing the reference check.

      • Zondor on 12/03/2022 - 16:40

        If you work in IT, you'll get a job somewhere else no problem.

  • Hithere on 10/03/2022 - 18:40
    +1

    If you are a member of a union discuss the issue with your rep. They will be the most qualified to advise you.

    Playing the mental problem card can backfire as it can leave a permanent mark on your record. If you can't handle a junior job how will you ever manage anything with more responsibility?

    If you resign are you confident that you will get another job with the same benefits you currently receive?

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 18:57
      +1

      When i say junior, it's probably in the context of the company and team. I'm sure in a mid/small organisation, I could step into a manager role.

      The mental exhaustion is mostly from not finding the work stimulating. If I don't enjoy it or feel like I'm contributing value I take it too personally, and get stuck in my head for months on end.

      • bobbified on 10/03/2022 - 19:28
        +8

        The mental exhaustion is mostly from not finding the work stimulating.

        Just from what you've said here, it's time for you to find another job.

  • MrHyde on 10/03/2022 - 18:50
    +20

    Sounds reasonable. 6 months half pay means that you have 3 months accrued. Employers are under no obligation to provide half-pay leave. From the article you referenced:

    • The period over which the employee wants to take leave;
      6 months could well be considered too long a period to not have an employee.

    • The operational requirements of the business during the leave period;
      You've said those months are busy; so the business does have operational needs at the time.

    • Whether the leave would cause a detriment to the business; and
      Maybe, maybe not - iffy here.

    • Whether the employee gave reasonable notice
      Is one month enough notice to find and train a replacement and do a handover?

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 18:52
      +1

      Yeh that's fair. I did read it that way too, but wanted additional interpretations of the situation too.

      • barge-in hunter on 10/03/2022 - 21:22
        +2

        There's always the option of being flexible with your leave.

        Given it's a 6 month duration, the assumption would be your position would be backfilled during that time? If so - offer to start your leave when a replacement is found and onboarded/trained (by yourself even?).

        Flexibility from your side would be the best option to get both the leave, and brownie points for being a solution orientated team player

      • tensionday on 12/03/2022 - 11:48

        You do have to be mindful that half pay leave does leave the company worse off as they have to double the backfill pay (i.e. 6 months full time pay for your backfill vs 3 months).

        It should be factored into the departmental budgets, but it isn't always, thus it is worth taking this into consideration depending on how your industry is going.

  • holdenmg on 10/03/2022 - 18:53
    +4

    If "significant mental exhaustion/anxiety" from this role then think about what you are seeking leave from and whether things will be different or the same on your return.

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 19:02

      Great point. I've come to terms with the idea of resigning, although still nervous to do with without a back-up plan.

      • Mechz on 10/03/2022 - 20:56
        +1

        Look at Seek and see how many jobs you could easily do, then sleep easy knowing unemployment is quite low.

      • Chong on 12/03/2022 - 11:50

        why don't you just apply for a new job and ask for a later start. also use people who have worked with you but have moved on as references.

  • adamcool on 10/03/2022 - 18:57
    +4

    workplace do have the right to reject your leave unless its for medical reason, does not matter how much leave you have. if its related to operation needs and you cant prove that you have medical reason, they can reject your six months leave, you can take some annual leave etc but not 6 months leave, if you don't like it just quit your job and you can have as much as leave as you want. in this case you are creating pain for others.

    know your right.

  • cuteseal on 10/03/2022 - 18:58
    +14

    From an employer's perspective I think your request isn't very reasonable. Assuming they are really short staffed then they would need to hire a new person in the space of 3-4 months, train them up, have them work for 3 months and then what… let them go? Or alternatively hire a contractor for 3 months and pay exorbitant rates, and that is assuming they can find someone who is willing to do this.

    Given the short notice I think they already have tried to meet you halfway… maybe in hindsight if you had given more notice they would have been able to plan around your absence.

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 19:04

      Fair points. Thanks for the alternative view-points on it.

      • Icecold5000 on 11/03/2022 - 23:26
        +1

        Just go for 1 to 2 months and see how you feel. What happens if you get bored after 3 months and find your replacement is working out well…

      • drfuzzy on 12/03/2022 - 16:02
        +1

        I agree it's unreasonable for the employer. Try to negotiate 2 months leave this year then a longer period next year to give them time to plan. A month or two is plenty to recharge you.

  • idonotknowwhy on 10/03/2022 - 19:14
    +4

    Quit, get a massive payout of your AL and LSL.
    Then enjoy your 6 months off, and apply for a new job.

    • bobbified on 10/03/2022 - 19:26
      +12

      Best to do it on or after 1 July so that the payouts are in the new financial year.

      • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 23:44

        Good point although hard to do since that's literally the start of the busy period, so unless I want to slog out another one, I'll probably just resign when it's suitable for me.

      • idonotknowwhy on 11/03/2022 - 10:34

        Nice, good point!

      • JimB on 12/03/2022 - 05:39
        -7

        LSL and AL when paid out are taxed at a flat rate and doesn’t form part of your taxable income.

  • lordezekiel on 10/03/2022 - 19:16
    +8

    If you need 6+ months off from your job i think that it's pretty clear it's not the job for you anymore. Quit, let yourself recover, look for something more suitable, no point wasting away at some job that's bad for your sanity and mental wellbeing.

  • Nugs on 10/03/2022 - 19:37
    +2

    taking that much leave will show the business that you are not needed
    .

  • rektrading on 10/03/2022 - 20:00
    -6

    Give ✌️ weeks' notice and make them pay all of your entitlements. That will show them who's the boss.

  • djones145 on 10/03/2022 - 20:04
    -2

    interesting, 7 years and u get LSL. not many companies have that….. mines does….

    you might be junior but management now that it's the juniors that do all the work lol. we are the worker need

    they jsut push crap around and place lipstick on a pig

    • kerfuffle on 10/03/2022 - 20:41
      +5

      interesting, 7 years and u get LSL

      Victorian law, that's why. Unlike NSW

    • Benoffie on 10/03/2022 - 22:07
      +2

      SA is 7 also.

    • bargainy on 12/03/2022 - 21:16
      +1

      ACT also 7 years.

  • 7ekn00 on 10/03/2022 - 20:47
    +7

    Burn through sick leave with some stress leave :P

  • dizzle on 10/03/2022 - 21:33
    +5

    The way I see it:
    1 months notice is not long enough to take 6 Months off (I'd even suggest it's not long enough notice to take 3 months off).
    They don't have to approve you to take any unpaid leave.
    I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to split the leave in two blocks - 2 months now, 2 months in 2nd half of the year.

    Depending on the company, you may have already done some damage. Asking for unpaid time off (without an excuse like surgery/retraining etc) is not a great look if they previously thought you were moving up in the company. They may even think you're using them to waste some time while working somewhere else for 6 months. Then when 6 months is up you hand in your notice. They could be better off letting you resign and hire someone else.

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 23:49
      +2

      Very reasonable comment, and exactly why I wanted to get second opinions on the matter. I do understand it's important to be reasonable and hopefully come up with a solution that will work for both the team and myself.

  • upended on 10/03/2022 - 21:38
    +2

    Why don’t you look for a new job now and if you find one, negotiate a bigger time gap between your current role and the new one? Doing this will ensure you have a new job lined up and you can still take some time off. Even better would be to negotiate with your current employer when you resign to get them to pay you your salary during the time you are on leave. Your employment will cease on the last day of your leave and they can pay out any remaining entitlements. Doing this will also save you some tax. It is my understanding that annual leave payouts get taxed at a higher rate when you voluntarily resign.

  • Benoffie on 10/03/2022 - 22:08
    +5

    My experience with current and former employers is - if you want to take LSL and it's more than 2 weeks (that's the minimum you can access), it needs to be at least 6 -12 months heads up.

    Put it on par with someone going on Parental Leave.

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 23:52
      -1

      Interesting. Didn't realise that much planning was needed!

      • dufflover on 11/03/2022 - 23:29
        -5

        Ever wonder why you're still a "junior" then? :P

    • sagrules on 11/03/2022 - 11:39

      Is this legislated anywhere? I think if your organisation is large, they can afford to give people time off. Personally, I haven't taken an extended break in 2 years and can't see how I could give them 6months notice for that.

    • onetwothreefour on 11/03/2022 - 13:43

      I don't think most companies need 6-12 months notice to take 3 weeks of LSL. Maybe if you want to take 8 weeks that might be different.

      • Benoffie on 11/03/2022 - 22:18

        The OP wants to take 6 months minimum with around 3 months notice. That's a lot to ask for any business.

  • AustriaBargain on 10/03/2022 - 23:17
    +2

    The busy period sounds like the best time to take your leave imo.

  • plmko on 10/03/2022 - 23:48
    +2

    Haha you sound like you work for big 4.

    • hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 23:55

      Haha, luckily not! I'm probably just a bit pickier than others in that if i don't see the value in a role or find personal importance in it, my motivation, drive and mental health suffer

      • sagrules on 11/03/2022 - 11:36
        +1

        I agree, I am having similar thoughts in my current organisation.

  • Gelato on 11/03/2022 - 00:45
    +3

    Just sharing some thoughts:

    • I took 1 month off recently and I raised the request to my manager 3 months prior and there was some discussions took place with upper management so that all hand over could be sorted in time

    • Seems like you need a new job. Even if you manage to get 6 months off as you wish, and when you return to work, you'd probably hate the job even more as the corporate world will not just magically get better after 6 months

  • hahaboy on 11/03/2022 - 11:22

    Thanks for all the inputs guys. I will be thinking over the comments over the weekend, but my gut feel is to put in my resignation next week.

    • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:13

      Resignation completed. Finishing up in 4 weeks time.

  • sagrules on 11/03/2022 - 11:35
    +2

    Take the leave they have approved now, you accrue additional benefits even while on leave e.g. adds to your existing balance of A/L and LSL. See how you feel after that leave. If still not keen to go back, resign and get it paid out.
    All the best, am in a similar situation myself.

    • hahaboy on 11/03/2022 - 11:55
      +2

      Makes sense from a financial perspective, but I will leave the team in a worse position as they will then need to hire last minute to replace me for busy period. They will not have the same opportunity to train them up.

      I'd rather not burn bridges for a few bucks.

      Feel free to message me privately if you want to discuss anything about your situation. Good luck to you :)

      • Dontdoit on 12/03/2022 - 14:51
        +1

        You obviously care about your colleagues. They will still be inconvenienced if you resign now.
        Take the leave available. Come back for the busy period since you don't want to leave them in the lurch. Then resign later if you still need to.

        • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:15

          I actually don't :p
          I just have strong moral and ethical principles that I apply to myself. Maybe to my own detriment and self-care. Although, I would like to think it helps me sleep slightly better at night.

  • md333 on 11/03/2022 - 12:43
    +2

    At least in WA there are some rules that they cannot deny you long service leave.
    Don't remember the actual wording, I think they can delay it once but not indefinitely.
    Pretty sure they are not required to allow you double time at half pay though.
    If it comes to that do you really want to work there though?

  • trapper on 11/03/2022 - 18:45
    +4

    I recently decided to take a minimum of six months off (at half-pay) and wanted to start in April.

    You mean take six months off, but only use three months of your holiday entitlement? Definitely not unreasonable to deny that.

    • Gareth on 11/03/2022 - 23:13

      For many employers that is an accepted and reasonably common option.

      However the fact of little notice and during busy periods are where this will often run into rougher ground.

      The issue you have to consider in a half-pay scenario is that they should have money aside to replace you for 3 months. If you then take it over 6 months the business effectively has to fund your replacement for twice what it has allowed for.

    • jellykingdom on 14/03/2022 - 10:24

      Maybe I want to take 12mo off at 1/4 pay! It would be enough to get me by, as long as I don't want to do anything too luxurious

  • frostman on 11/03/2022 - 20:16
    +3

    Your options are (at your 7-10 years service):

    • 2 months off as they suggested
    • Request career break 6-12 months (un-paid) - note you will need to come back and re-apply for a role.

    BTW giving them 4 week notice for 6 months off is not feasible for anyone..
    At the minimum, if they were to hire for a secondment role or a 6 months contractor, it will take them 2 months to do.

  • [Deactivated] on 11/03/2022 - 20:22

    I have like 40 weeks leave, boss said I could do one week on, one week off.
    I can take a month off, probably 2.

    He said I can't have it all at once tho!

    • morebunnings on 12/03/2022 - 22:34
      +2

      Damn. 40 weeks. That's crazy. Really bad management by your boss. Good for you though. I take it you love what you do?

    • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:18
      -1

      That sucks. I'd rather take it off in one go as then you can travel interstate or overseas too.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 11/03/2022 - 20:59

    You want to take 6 months at half pay and have them keep your job.

    Imho i would of sacked you for asking.

    As a millennial, when Boomers complain about us being over entilted this is what they mean. How can you think thay is an accept request? With only 1 months notice.

    More over how can you post about it on the internet and think people would be like - supportive of your stupidity. Unless you outlined you were going to take leave like this on you interview and they agreed to it you are being unreasonable.

    If I was in charge I'd be looking to getting rid of you for such a blantently stupid and self centred request. It isnt the type of thing you want in the high end business environment.

    • Aureus on 11/03/2022 - 21:38
      +2

      You sound like a terrible boss. Sacking someone simply for asking to take extended leave. There are lots of good reasons why someone would want to take 6 months off. It is also totally reasonable for a business to say no to the leave request as it will no doubt be disruptive.

      • popsiee on 11/03/2022 - 21:53
        -4

        That is why smart businesses hire overseas .
        None of this BS entitlement and 5 to 10% of the cost .

        • Aureus on 11/03/2022 - 21:56
          +2

          Not really entitlement.

          "I need to take 6 months off to do some stuff"
          "Sure thing, we didn't want to pay you anyway"

          "I need to take 6 months off to do some stuff"
          "Hell no"
          "That's cool. Here is my notice"

          Pretty simple.

          Edit: Also you have clearly never had to manage overseas outsource staff if you actually think that.

          • FlyingMiffy on 11/03/2022 - 23:00
            +2

            @Aureus: I think the entitlement might be the one month notice part… i.e. it's my leave so I can take it when it's convenient to me and me only.

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