Workplace Rejecting My Leave Request. Is It Reasonable?

hahaboy on 10/03/2022 - 18:34
Last edited 17/03/2022 - 16:13

I'm a Victorian employee with a large corporate, and am eligible to both annual leave and long service leave. I recently decided to take a minimum of six months off (at half-pay) and wanted to start in April.

I spoke with my manager (who also discussed with his manager), and both of them don't see it feasible for me to take this time off. They are still willing to allow me to take up to two months off in April/May, but require me back for June/July/August as it's busy period. That was the biggest reason to reject my leave request.

On one hand:

  • I understand that our team gets busy during certain periods and they need team-members to be around for it;
  • Potentially making life harder for the rest of the team by not being around; and
  • My leave request is only 1 month in advance, which might not be adequate for planning purposes

On the other hand:

  • Busy period still only starts in 3-4 months so there is plenty of time to pre-plan a replacement;
  • I'm still the most junior person in the team, so it feels a bit unfair that I'm supposedly that 'essential' for business operations;
  • I'm legally entitled to LSL and annual leave;
  • Covid situation has only started settling now, so pre-planning leave didn't feel feasible until recently;
  • Feeling significant mental exhaustion/anxiety from this role, and I really want/need time off.

What are my options here? Are they being reasonable in this situation? Should I just resign and go on leave (LSL and Annual leave will get paid out)?

I found some guidance here, but it does appear it's a subjective matter:
https://lawpath.com.au/blog/can-employers-refuse-long-servic…
https://lawpath.com.au/blog/can-employer-refuse-annual-leave

PS: Parents and partner would prefer me to not to resign. I feel ok taking the risk as I genuinely don't enjoy it.
PPS: Thanks for all the replies so far. I will definitely be reading them all, although may not respond to everyone.

EDIT: Resignation has been put-in, and I'll look to travel overseas at some stage.

Education & Work

Comments

            • Aureus on 11/03/2022 - 23:34
              +1

              @FlyingMiffy: True. But OP mentions that only giving 1 months notice may not be adequate for planning purposes.

              OP doesn't come across as entitled to me.

              • Trying2SaveABuck on 11/03/2022 - 23:52
                -1

                @Aureus: Op is posing it online becuz he wants to feel better about himself instead of accepting he was an it was a poorly timed and stupid request that was unacceptable in almost any work place let alone big corp.

                He is chasing confirmation bias that others think he was reasonable when he clearly wasn't.

                As i said if i was OP boss id tell him/her to pack up his desk

                If you think that's harsh then you clearly don't earn well into the 6 figures which is were I assume OP wants to end up if he is working in big corp and if he doesn't then he shouldnt be at big corp.

                Your boss, work place, isnt your friend it isnt a place where you can put it on hold when you want travel, party etc.

                • Euphemistic on 12/03/2022 - 07:00

                  @Trying2SaveABuck:

                  Your boss, work place, isnt your friend it isnt a place where you can put it on hold when you want travel, party etc.

                  This may be true, but employees aren’t there to be exploited either. It’s a two way street. Yes, OPs request seems a bit unreasonable, but it’s also unreasonable to expect an employee to not take leave when they need a break.

                  • aboogee on 12/03/2022 - 08:48
                    +1

                    @Euphemistic: I can understand if its health related - no one would ever reject a leave request for that.
                    But if it was something else, like attending a wedding or I just want to some time at the beach then on balance, those things can wait.
                    Plus the managers were willing to let OP take 2 months off

                    • Euphemistic on 12/03/2022 - 09:55

                      @aboogee: A wedding can wait?

                      Needing a break might be mental health related. Quit my last job because mental health was suffering. Manager made a comment as to my leave not being approved, but approved it anyway. If the leave hadn’t been approved I probably would have taken stress leave. I took 4 weeks off, relaxed bjt within 2 weeks on returning handed in my notice.

                      Anyway, requesting leave is a negotiation. I’ve changed my attitude to work, you are replaceable, there is lore work out there. Only trouble is people get stuck in a job due to wanting to keep their lifestyle or not lose a house etc.

                • Eeples on 12/03/2022 - 09:43
                  +2

                  @Trying2SaveABuck: Fired for requesting LSL?

                  Maybe this is the OPs best bet as he can spend his time off pursuing his unfair dismissal case.
                  (Plenty of no win no fee firms out there; OP can put his feet up).

                  • Trying2SaveABuck on 12/03/2022 - 14:19
                    -4

                    @Eeples: he isnt using leave it is essentially leave without pay as OP has 3 months of AL/LSL saved up and wants to take 6 months off or longer off - in a time when a pandemic just ended and most businesses are bleeding.

                    as i said you clearly dont understand what it is like to earn big money…no offence

                    ill say this wouldn't fire them in traditional sense i would do what all smart managers do and 'push' the worker to leave. Sounds like OP is relatively junior position i would limit or stop any growth in OP career until it forces OP to leave. TBH i would be surprised if OP management haven't already decided to do that, unless op has a 'special' set of skills that are hard replace which it doesnt sound like he/she does then new graduates are a dime a dozen these days in the corporate world.

                    it is entirely possible that op is just a rubbish work and the main reason they aren't granting OP request is they want to push OP out.

                    you are correct it is hard to fire someone but it is pretty 'easy' to get someone to quit esp if they arent on 'good salary' which it sounds like op is on a 80-90k year position.

                    • eldudebrothers on 12/03/2022 - 21:39

                      @Trying2SaveABuck: Correct me if I have misunderstood but are you stating that you would bully someone into quitting because they have the audacity to request leave for being unwell?

                      • Trying2SaveABuck on 12/03/2022 - 22:36
                        -3

                        @eldudebrothers: calm down high and mighty - geez he only added there is nothing about being unwell - it sounded to me like op wanted a 6 month holiday during a company busy period and he isnt happy with the Declined leave request. - to me that isnt someone i'd want working for me.

                        dead set people on this forum are idiots

                        it isnt not bulling it is you dont promote people who are 's—t' at there jobs. if it is a health reason then it is a different story but the initial reading of this post op was not taking leave for family health issues

                        he is taking leave for the sake of taking leave and your workplace can decline excessive long periods of leave they also do not have to agree to leave at half pay for op has no leg to stand on.

                        • eldudebrothers on 12/03/2022 - 23:27

                          @Trying2SaveABuck:

                          1. The OP stated "Feeling significant mental exhaustion/anxiety from this role, and I really want/need time off." I interpret this as someone who is struggling and needing time off for the sake of his mental health.
                          2. I fail to see the link between idiocy and sympathy.
                          3. You stated "all smart managers do and 'push' the worker to leave." It isn't a stretch to assume you are insinuating that you would make it difficult for the worker in order to influence them to leave.
                            4.Obviously workplaces can decline long periods of leave but my point was that you should work on your empathy and try to understand the OP's perspective.
              • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:21

                @Aureus: Yup thank you.

        • johnno07 on 12/03/2022 - 18:35
          +1

          That is why smart businesses hire overseas .
          None of this BS entitlement and 5 to 10% of the cost .

          Spotted the guy who has never been responsible for outsourced foreign workers.

    • aboogee on 12/03/2022 - 08:54

      Well, thinking there is more millennials using OzB might be the reason for the post yeah?

    • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:19
      -1

      Lol shut-up boomer

  • Yttrium on 11/03/2022 - 21:23
    +6

    from a financial perspective, its better to take the leave instead of quit. Because you accrue leave + Super while you are on leave

    • Eeples on 12/03/2022 - 09:34

      Also, the super would be paid out in this current financial year which means more tax. It’s nearly always better to take LSL so it spans financial years.

      • Aureus on 12/03/2022 - 10:38

        You don't get paid any super when you get your leave paid out.

        • Eeples on 12/03/2022 - 21:39

          Mmmm..true.

          I meant to type LSL.

          • Donaldhump on 13/03/2022 - 00:30

            @Eeples: why more tax on the super, its a flat rate of 15%

    • Deadalready on 12/03/2022 - 10:53

      If you're going to quit anyway this is the best way, you're still employed, have a backup, are taxed the lowest amount and still have access to benefits.

  • Euphemistic on 11/03/2022 - 21:47
    +1

    If you are really don’t like what they are doing get another job. If you really really don’t like it, quit with minimum notice 2 weeks before the busy period.

    • FlyingMiffy on 11/03/2022 - 22:59
      +3

      The OP might not like the job but why make your colleagues or soon to be ex colleagues suffer. Most industries have small circles and karma is a grumpy old man.

  • Alexxx on 11/03/2022 - 21:52

    Call their bluff, I had a manager refuse to respond to my leave request once after I gave them 2 months notice. I just sent a polite email confirming that I only needed to give 2 weeks notice to resign.
    My leave was approved.

    • chriskq on 11/03/2022 - 22:18

      oh my i would love to know the wording…. how many times did you edit the email before sending :)

      • Alexxx on 11/03/2022 - 22:40
        +4

        Edited maybe 3 times and 5 mins reading my Australian Workplace Agreement, I just googled them and reminded myself how old I am :(. Definitely the worst contract conditions I've ever had and the worst boss as well.

        Hi xxx,

        I am following up on the leave request I submitted 4 weeks ago for DD mm yyyy. This hasn't been approved yet and I note that under my AWA I am only required to provide 2 weeks notice prior to resigning.

        I look forward to discussing my leave or alternative arrangements in the coming weeks.

        Thanks,
        Alex

    • Nebargains on 13/03/2022 - 07:07

      Honestly that won't do you any favours, threatening to resign if leave isn't approved? It's childish and the wrong way to go about it.

      In any case asking for 6 months leave with 1 month notice is completely unreasonable. No idea what Op was thinking, for 6 months off I'd be expecting maybe 3-6 months notice as taking 6 months off is not something you do on a whim.

  • FlyingMiffy on 11/03/2022 - 22:55
    +2

    Leave entitlement means you get them, accrue them and can make reasonable requests to use them. One month notice for a 6 month break is not a reasonable lead time - it takes at least 2-3 weeks to hire someone to replace you, and ignoring notice period for the new hire, at least another 4-8 weeks to get them settled into a job so OP is effectively asking the business to be a person down for about 12 weeks, half of which lands in their usual busy period… so yeah, not surprised they said no. Sounds like the OP's reason for taking leave is because he is unhappy… if that's the case, better to quit, take the cash out and let the business hire a permanent replacement.

    • plasmoske on 12/03/2022 - 00:19
      +1

      OP doesn't even have 6 months leave entitlement. Only has 3 months long service leave and also wants 3 months of unpaid leave.

      On 1 month's notice. Tell him he's dreaming lol

      • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:36
        -1

        Nope. I have 3 months of LSL and 3 months of annal leave, which i could stretch for 12 months on half-pay if i really wanted.

  • cnrmlj on 12/03/2022 - 08:43
    +4

    I work for a large corporate too and manage a team of currently 5 and i find your request quite unreasonable, not the amount of time but the short notice. It's mid March and you want to take 6 months off from next week. That gives your employer little time to plan for.

    My general rule of thumb is you should be giving a month's notice for planned leave for each week of leave. e.g. if you want to take a week, give me a month's notice up to a month of leave and then 4 months for any longer period. If you want to take 6 weeks, i would like 4 months notice. It's a rule of thumb, not a rule and certainly not a corporate policy but gives a reasonable amount of notice.

    3 weeks notice for 6 months off. Go away. You can have your 6 months off from September after we get through the busy period and have summer off. Hopefully over that period you will learn how to plan ahead too.

    • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:37

      Good to know. I'll keep this in mind for the future.

  • aboogee on 12/03/2022 - 08:44
    +2

    Be careful with what you wish for buddy
    If I was the manager, I'd say to you, hey I need 100% of my team during peak and you guys can decide how to divvy up non-peak windows for leave
    If you want me to find a replacement only during peak period, then what is that person going to do during non-peak
    Team has to be sized optimally, and that is based on peak load on BAU load.

  • Eeples on 12/03/2022 - 09:30
    +2

    The one month notice for 6 months leave imo is not reasonable.

    My employer requires at least 3 months notice.

    You could try taking April or May off (recharge before your busy season) and apply now for the 5 months from September.

  • tightasian on 12/03/2022 - 11:02

    Get your doctor to prove work caused your issue. Employer can put you on work comp.

  • adn on 12/03/2022 - 11:26
    +1

    Pretty unreasonable request. Short notice. Only entitled to 3 month leave but pushing for six and during busy period.

    However if you confident you can get another role. Bail as your mental health is more important than any job.

  • lhou021 on 12/03/2022 - 11:55
    +1

    I have seen people usually give more than 6 months of advance notice for an annual leave this long

  • Windows98 on 12/03/2022 - 13:28
    -1

    6 months leave with one month's notice. Nice.

    And people wonder why companies move jobs overseas.

  • haemolysis on 12/03/2022 - 14:06
    -3

    So many bootlickers these days.

    I see some people even suggesting you should give 3-4 months notice for leave lol? What an absolute joke.

    Your compete resignation would probably only require 2-4 weeks notice. If an employer thinks they’re entitled to monthS, plural, of notice… that’s absurd.

    They should be planning ahead for leave, and already have contingency in the form of handover plans, or, depending on the industry, temporary positions ready to commence advertisement, hire or secondment. Handover plans and contingency plans are an essential function of a workforce. If an employer is caught flustered, it’s not your fault; they aren’t managing their HR well. It’s a “them problem” not a “you problem.”

    I mean, a month of notice is never “short notice.” That is plenty. People are given LESS notice to end a lease and move out, or to be fired from a job…

    Further to that, annual leave isn’t unexpected either. They know exaaaactly how much you are accruing at any given time.

    Nooooow. Having said that, a week is pushing things. There is a balance here lol. Just disregard the bootlickers though.

    • misu p on 12/03/2022 - 18:55
      +1

      lol… I think people that think 1 week is pushing things are such bootlickers… be a man, same-day notice should be plenty…. heck… just tell them you are taking 6 months' vacation starting now…. people are such bootlickers…. geez.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/03/2022 - 14:34
    +2

    Your mental health is important and you need to ensure you're taking time off to rest and recover. That said, your request is unreasonable.

    To reframe your ask from the business' perspective, you're not only asking to use three months of accrued leave in one block, but you're asking to add on an additional three months of unpaid leave. At a resourcing level, this leaves the business at a net loss (during peak trade no less). Your ask is putting a burden on their operations.

    My advice is to take their offer of two months now. That's a generous slice of time and will ensure you have some leave to use later in the year if needed. Consider your options while you're on leave, maybe apply for some other roles. But whatever you do, do not quit in reaction to their decision because that will work against you when you ask for a reference.

  • normo86 on 12/03/2022 - 16:16

    Sounds to me like 6 months at half pay is the equivalent of 3 months paid 3 months LWOP, which an employer has aright to approve or deny as they see fit. I think you’d be more of a chance of having it approved if it was the straight 3 months.

  • THICKnSLOW on 12/03/2022 - 16:29

    A case of test nibbling the hand that feeds you.

  • ribze1 on 12/03/2022 - 19:11

    My company's policy for LSL is that you give 6 months notice, which is reasonable.

    For you to ask for 6 months off with one month's notice isn't.

  • trev likes bargains on 13/03/2022 - 05:11

    Take the approved leave and look at another job

  • Bills22 on 13/03/2022 - 12:19

    Have you asked HR about what is on your contract, entitlements and restrictions on taking LSL, AL and non-paid with combinations of either and so forth?
    Have you tried contacting Fairwork and see what their viewpoint is as well. Not sure if this option applies to you though….

    I think it's fair to take what is given at this point in time, come back re-energized for the busy period and see how you feel after. I'm also certain that you've put into consideration of fair treatment for others in the business. Word goes out that you are on 6 months, you'll have disgruntled colleagues as well to deal with.

    I think they were fair to have provided an option for 2 months. Bank the LSL/AL if any left for later in the year…

    If you feel hard done by then yes, you can also press "send" on that resignation email…

  • MrFrugalSpend on 13/03/2022 - 13:32
    +3

    Sounds like you have 3 months leave, but you want to try stretch it to 6 by going "half pay". I don't think that's reasonable.
    They would need to hire a replacement at significant cost, then fire them when you come back - if you come back. You may not then essentially you are kind of quitting your job but want a chance to come back to it. They can't replace you full time. They have to keep it available to you, but you can choose to leave at the end. Have a think about their side of things.

    I think you should be able to take 3 months though but see how 1 month notice for 3 months leave is short.
    However I don't think you should take too long anyway - take it in multiple parts instead - ~6 weeks at a time is a decent break without getting too disconnected from the workplace.
    Then you have something to look forward to each time

  • CoreJava on 13/03/2022 - 15:22

    Just go get sick leave. The easiest way is to get mental health certificate.

  • playswithfire on 13/03/2022 - 18:39

    In my former job, any more than 4 weeks off had to be requested 3 months in advance, for planning purposes.

  • drprox on 13/03/2022 - 21:12
    +1

    Your workplace must be doing well. Mine would be forcing you to take all your LSL asap. They do not like the balance sheet liability

  • Eeples on 13/03/2022 - 23:22

    I will be applying in August 2022 for all of 2023 1/2 pay LSL but there is currently a shortage in my industry due to covid.

    Fingers crossed.

  • Lancerx on 14/03/2022 - 03:00
    -2

    Another one from the entitled generation..

  • Zondor on 14/03/2022 - 09:21
    +1

    If a buisness can function without an employee for 6 months, then why are you even employed?

    • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:43

      lol, business has well over 10k+ employees. They can/will survive.

  • Blackadda on 14/03/2022 - 19:27
    +1

    It's all in your first sentence.

    "I've decided to take a minimum six months off" .. You don't have a unilateral right to decide when you do and don't work other than by quitting, if you've accrued some leave you can take it on a reasonable basis, if you want longer at half pay that's by agreement.

    If you don't like it quit or complain to HR… they're not being unreasonable to expect you back in 2 months time. Who lets someone go on leave for a 'minimum' period, except sometimes parents with babies and then it's usually a minimum 6 months and its just not clear whether they are coming back at all or not.

    Big places should be able to accomodate some of this stuff for junior memembers, but you're basically asking them to wear the cost of a replacement and then just slot you back in 'if you still feel like it'

  • ChillBro on 17/03/2022 - 00:42
    +1

    Resignation has been put-in, and I'll look to travel overseas in a few weeks.

    Congrats, OP! Can’t say I’m not jealous!

    Way to stick it to them too. A month is a long enough notice period to give when resigning so it makes no sense it’s not enough notice for just a holiday. I wouldn’t want to work for an employer who wants to dictate the terms of their employees leave. Anyone who thinks that’s reasonable is probably a wage slave who lives to work and I pity them.

    • hahaboy on 17/03/2022 - 00:46
      +2

      Thanks. Overall content with the decision. It took me a while to get there, but I definitely need the time off after lockdowns and life in general.

      Not sure about sticking it to the man. Think it will be the best outcome for everyone.

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