This is probably your best chance of getting it early. I'm expecting it to be out of stock very soon. Free shipping with amazon prime.
CamelCamelCamel.
If you can find it locally for under $500, feel free to share it with us. As far as i can see, it's already out of stock at the main local retailers.
I'm still happy with my 3600. Waiting for zen 4.
It's no longer available on msy.
@Cedric008: Depends where you are located they are still getting in there stock in stores
https://www.msy.com.au/balcatta/cpus/4453-intel-12th-gen-i5-…
wow! good match for AMD, looks like in between 5600X & 5800X :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkHMh8sUSuM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP_2A3Zwzi8
Great news for all consumers!
conclusion : best time to 5600X @ $330 is the best deal, with cheap MB & DDR4 :D
Yep, rooting for intel to do well so AMD will bump down the price of 5600X lol
@jp1011: I found this weird review where DDR5 with this CPU gives lower FPS than DDR4 with the same CPU,
@bazingaa: It's not weird at all… a lot of games prefer the lower latency on offer with DDR4. These first gen DDR5 modules are only an upgrade for select workloads.
@jp1011: I am so waiting for the 5600x to drop. Also when do you reckon is the best timing for the ddr4 to buy (how much more will the price drop?)
Why not when u can pay the premium for a $500+ z690 board and then pay $400ish for DDR 5 to be on par with 5800x.
yes, that's why my above conclusion :D
Bar a few architectural quirks, it's a 5800X killer.
Will be highly competitive against any 8-core Zen 3D model next year, but will need a B660 board and cheaper DDR5 RAM to really carve out the value niche.
Agree, it's a real competitor to AMD, just need to wait until 2021 when intel release the rest of the product line, and the cheap motherboards come out to match.
It's been specifically designed to use DDR4 ram too, so DDR5 pricing is a non issue
More interested in having an upgrade path on any LGA1700 offering than playing percentages on aging DDR4 stock.
12600k is not worth getting at the moment with z690 motherboard prices. By the time cheaper motherboards come out Zen 3d will be released.
Yeah because zen3d will totally not be overpriced?
Imo we need to dump the 'HODLing' mentality a bit with new tech in the next few years, it wont be cheaper-at least not the extent that it will be worth it to wait for, in most cases its just better to buy a close to msrp deal now and enjoy it than to wait months and years for good deals-whatever good deals means nowadays.
Usually I would agree but we have Zen 3d only 2 months away and we have not had this much CPU competition in almost 2 decades.
That said. If I was buying a gaming PC right now I would buy 11400 or 5600x platform. CPU and mobo is about $300 cheaper than 12600k + z690.
Zen 3D v-cache is only a stop gap solution, giving AM4 an extended run. Z690 is expensive due to quite a number of changes:
The CPU offers PCIe gen 5 x16. Would have liked an additional x4, but for now, PCIe gen 5 SSD would mean running those x16 in x8/x8 lanes.
There is also a feature difference between DDR5 and DDR4 for Alder Lake, with some of the features mentioned only being implemented in DDR5 boards.
Unless AMD offers a big discount on 5600x, and we see some bargain for x570 boards, it is unwise to go 5600x unless you really need a PC right now.
@netsurfer: Zen 3d may be a stop gap but it's still going to ~15% improvement on average in gaming. It's also perfect for so many of us who have b550/x570 boards.
Alderlake is not crap, it's just expensive. Not worth it until cheaper motherboards come out. PCIe gen 5 is a long way from being utilised. Gen 4 isn't even required for gamers.
Good B550 boards can already be bought for $80. Not sure how much cheaper you want them to be?
@Casomme: Honestly, there is a lot of click bait on some of those reviews. Also, you are cherry picking bits you want to give yourself reasons to do that CPU upgrade. The so called ~15% improvement in gaming is on 1080p AND you need a top notch GPU.
B550, the chipset is PCIe gen 3 based and if it weren't because AMD screwed B450 and X470 owners with a micro code block, those boards can do PCIe gen 4 via the CPU (so PCIe gen 4 x16 for the GPU slot, and PCIe gen 4 x4 NVMe via the m.2 slot wired to the CPU).
Even if you want to go for 5600X based system, at least wait for a decent price drop. The problem is that if the prices of these next gen parts don't come down in price soon, other than gaming, it will be difficult not to look at what Apple is offering.
@netsurfer: I am not looking for any reason to upgrade. I game at 4k so the last few gens are fine for what I do. The fact that you need to go down to 1080p on the fastest gpu just to find a meaningful difference since 10th gen Intel shows that most people don't need to upgrade.
I will probably get Zen 3d after the price drops since it's the last CPU release for AM4. Probably won't upgrade for 3 years or so.
@Casomme: That doesn't make sense. What's so great about AM4? Only the top end X570 boards have Thunderbolt 3. I have an AM4 based system and if it weren't due to AMD's CPUs being better recently, the platform is frustrating.
Zen 3D v-cache enhancement only? AMD, really?
@netsurfer: I got AMD because it was better value until Zen 3. I have had none of the problems you described. I also build in ITX form factor so power and heat matters.
As for B550, CPU has enough gen 4 lanes for m.2 and GPU. It's enough especially when gen 3 isn't even saturated yet so it's more than enough for the long term.
AMD are not our friends, they have done some scummy things like all companies, they are just not as bad as Intel or Nvidia. In the end I just buy what's best value for what I need/want. No loyalty.
it was better value until Zen 3
You believe AMD will reverse that trend for 3D v-cache?
I just buy what's best value for what I need/want.
Nah, ITX and 3D v-cache, that is clearly NOT best value. We know it's generally not a good idea to buy the 11th gen Intel CPU (the last of 14nm+++++) so why is it such a great idea to buy the final CPU for AMD platform?
The truth is that you have quite a fair amount of IT and/or entertainment budget to buy some toys, but not that much to buy top end, latest and greatest.
@netsurfer: "You believe AMD will reverse that trend for 3D v-cache?"
Everything drops in value eventually.
11th gen was the exception. 9900k and previous i7s still maintain a high price on 2nd hand market because they are "best in slot".
You have no idea about my budget lol. I could buy whatever I like but I like to buy tech that leaves me satisfied. Buying things under market value is fun which is why I am addicted to this site. Buying the latest and greatest isn't all that fun to me, finding good value on new or 2nd hand markets is. It's a hobby really. I have bought Intel, AMD and Nvidia products in the last year.
@Casomme: You really need to stop coming up excuses and conflicting standards. If you have been buying IT toys and gadgets this year, you expect us to believe that after buying Zen 3D CPU, you would stop upgrading for 3 years?
For me, Apple silicon CPUs (APUs) is a wake up call that all these recently limited PC CPU enhancements are not good for consumers. The reality is that if Alder Lake + Z690 + DDR5 is too expensive now, then just wait or wait for next iteration of CPUs / motherboards.
Intel has at least woken up and shown that PC can do PCIe gen 5 and gen 4 properly. Sure, general public probably are not ready for professional grade level bandwidth BUT that doesn't mean we won't be able to benefit in 12 months time in some shape or form.
We do not know yet about the DDR4 based Z690 boards' pricing. From what I can gathered, motherboard makers remove quite a few features (compared to DDR5 ones, not sure it is Intel's doing or M/B makers want to capture a wider range of market). If we are talking about $150-$200 difference (given DDR4 RAM prices would be the same), Z690 (even DDR4) is a decent jump over B550.
With crazy GPU prices, I don't really see 5600X being so great, other than being an upgrade to temporary stop you from upgrading to something better.
@netsurfer: ITX might not be cheap but space is a premium for some people…
Downsizing isn't that expensive either… Just an ITX case and a mobo.
@Casomme: Disagree they are not as bad as Intel or Nvidia. There is NO reason 5000 series was priced higher than 3000 series, except marketing. They have the same production costs
@greatlamp: Research into Intel and Nvidia history. Intel was found guilty of paying off AIBs to not use AMD products. Nvidia implemented excessive tessellation to crash performance of both companies products knowing it would crash AMDs performance more.
AMD isn't great but Intel and Nvidia set the bar very low.
@Freestyle: It's not speculation. It's reported by AMD themselves, sure there is some marketing spin like all tech companies do but it's not far off.
@Casomme: AMD also promised they’d have stock of their gpus when it got released, how did that turn out?
Maybe wait till actual benchmarks are out before claiming all these random numbers
@Freestyle: It's not a random number. I also used a ~ to show likely variance from AMD claim.
You really like pretending to know what people are thinking with a lot of assumptions don't you?
@Casomme: You are literally saying “oh amd said so!” for your claims, it is random, who cares what amd said, its not out and you are already overhyping
you really like playing prophet dont you?
@Casomme: 3D V-cache is a "cache" improvement. You clearly know that so called 15% improvement won't happen in 4K game. You can tease Z690 all you want, but that's 4 PCIe gen 4 NVMe SSDs from that chipset alone (not counting the PCIe gen 5 support). 2 x Thunderbolt 4 support is also good. While I am not that impressed with Alder Lake, at least Intel is including additional E cores in the CPU.
Let's "assume" the 3D V-cache matches expectation, with B550, you are still stuck with 1 PCIe gen 4 NVMe SSD and USB 3.1 gen 2 ports. Such systems make so much sense to keep for years?
You do know motherboards for Zen 4 CPUs will support PCIe gen 5 right?
@netsurfer: Yes which is why I am not going to upgrade until it drops in price as I don't need it but I may upgrade the Zen 2 CPU one last time.
I don't need thunderbolt 4 or gen 5 so why should I care about it? Buy the features you actually use, need or want.
@netsurfer: I'm still running a i7 4770 which I got late in the cycle. It is a massive waste of money getting a top tier CPU for gaming, spend the money on a graphics card. GFX cards aren't even close to the bandwidth limits of PCIe Gen 4.
5600X is looking like a MUCH better buy at the moment, particularly when we see the inevitable price drop.
5600X is looking like a MUCH better buy at the moment
Not really (at least not yet), unless the price drops by a fair margin. Core i5-12600K's performance is more around 5800X level. For non-gaming, Core i5-12600K has an embedded GPU. Yes, we know it is no good for gaming, BUT, it is capable of doing 5K or 4 x 4K/60Hz (* motherboard permitting / dependent).
As for the heavy motherboard cost, well, there is the cheaper DDR4 path. However, you do lose some performance (on certain applications) and Thunderbolt 4 will most likely require add-on cards (even if that's not included in DDR4 based Z690 board, the USB 3.2 2x2 ports (+ the alt-mode in that could come in handy). So, if it is $150 more for the board to get PCIe gen 5, multiple PCIe gen 4 NVMe m.2 slots, more USB 3.2 gen 2 ports, potentially 2.5 Gigabit Ethernet. Then, is it really a huge problem?
Might as well wait a bit. The move to PCIe gen 5 is needed if Intel / AMD want to compete with Apple silicon in the long run. One thing to note is that the non-K version of Alder Lake CPUs do not have the constant boost like the K version.
@netsurfer: A lot of PC users will have:
Motherboard with Gigabit Ethernet and with WiFi 5 or 6 and with Bluetooth and with USB 3.2 port
WiFi 5 or 6 PCIe card with Bluetooth or USB WiFi if WiFi is not available on motherboard
CPU
2 RAM DIMMs
PCIe GPU
NVME SSD Gen 3
Maybe a second NVME SSD or a SATA drive
Power supply
Keyboard and mouse
Monitor
Some speakers if not part of monitor, or headphones
Not everyone needs Thunderbolt 4, new WiFi card standard, more than a couple of USB ports, more PCIe lanes, 2.5Gigabit Ethernet, 4 RAM DIMMs. A lot dont need gen 4 NVME SSD in the near future.
Most people do not care about what AMD or Intel or some other company did with code as long as their computer works and performs well.
It is of a lot more interest to have good performing CPU and GPU. AMD processors and 11th Gen Intell processors still deliver good performance and are likely to be suitable in the near future. PCIe gen 3 is not a terrible GPU performance killer right now either.
Alder lake isnt delivering much of anything great to a common PC build. Not yet. Maybe this stuff will matter more in a couple of years time for the most common PC user. By then there will be a new generation of CPU. For those that need faster storage or more PCIe cards or Thunderbolt 4 then Alder lake may look interesting right now but that is not the most common PC user. Not at the current price.
@g1: Have you seen I + voted this? There is no + vote from me. The main issue I have getting a new PC now is the price of GPUs.
If you getting a gaming PC now, that means $$$ isn't a huge factor (because of the GPU price, not to mention high refresh rate monitor - i.e. 2K/240Hz or 4K/60Hz). If $$$ is a factor, then what you are basically doing is to do some sort of incremental upgrade to trick your brain.
Sure, Alder Lake + Z690 is an overkill for most people, but i5-12600K has an embedded GPU, so for non-gaming, is 5600X + a GPU really a better deal? I'd like to see AMD putting some form of embedded GPU in mainstream CPUs in the future.
Is it a good time to build a new PC? Not really. Alder Lake doesn't bring enough performance jump to be honest, if you look at Apple silicon CPUs (APUs). However, give Intel some credits. The RRP of i5-12600K is decent enough (but retailers will probably milk the customers). Z690 is a preview of AMD's Zen 4 flagship chipset (won't be cheap).
However, if i5-12600K isn't worth it, then clearly Zen 3D (which is v-cache improvement) isn't going to be worth it either.
The PCIe gen 5 and Thunderbolt 4 are just starting. There will be growing pains, especially for Thunderbolt 4, with HDMI 2.1 and DisplayPort 2.0 coming into the mix as well. It is good to be aware of. Basically, try not to over invest in HDMI 2.0, DisplayPort 1.4 accessories or cables. Thunderbolt 3 may not be worth it anymore and Thunderbolt 4 gears - probably too early to invest, unless you are pros and you get the money back from work easily.
@netsurfer: Some people need to buy a PC. Timing for them is irrelevant.
So good time or not if someone is buying a gaming GPU then they still need the rest of the system. Alder Lake is bad value for money, and with an expensive GPU its better to get value somewhere then no where. In 1440p gaming Alder Lake benefit is tiny.
As far as iGPU, get a 1030 or something sub $100 for AMD. Make sure to get Zen 3 on sale. Total system cost will still be cheaper and performance for dollar still better. If really desperate for iGPU then get 5600G on sale.
Do you know how much Zen 3 refresh will cost? If you dont then all the speculation about if it will be worth it means zilch.
Apple and Arm are a whole different thing. Some people need Windows and there is no announcement that Arm will be the mainstream architecture in the next year for Windows.
@T1OOO: They are coming. Yes, I know it is an overkill. However, I am hoping PCIe gen 4 based NVMe SSDs will drop in price. I doubt that will happen.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-preps-pcie-gen-5-s…
You can easily just Google. Again, I stress, this is NOT about getting Alder Lake with Z690 now. Far from it, it is an overkill for most people. As for the professionals, I am still cynical whether Intel has done enough. The PCIe gen 5 SSD implementation is kinda a hack as it forces the PCIe gen 5 into 2 x8 instead of 1 x16.
I would buy 11400
If you're going to do that I'd buy the 10 series instead given the lower price and very close performance.
Zen 3D v-cache probably won't be overpriced since it is a stop gap to counter Alder Lake short term (so the current AM4 boards will work).
While we do need to move forward (and this is largely due to Intel not doing much for the past few years), the Z690 features are not something most of us are ready to take full advantage of. We are looking at DDR5, PCIe gen 5 SSD, Thunderbolt 4, USB 3.2 2x2, 2.5Gbps LAN, Wifi 6E. Even the embedded Intel GPU for Alder Lake is supporting 4 x 4K/60Hz.
Apple M1 Max can do 3 x 6K + 1 x 4K, but other than that, Alder Lake + Z690 I/O support exceeds M1 Max. Thing is, are most of us really ready to take advantage of all that? 4 PCIe gen 4 NVMe SSDs + (optional) 1 PCIe gen 5 NVMe SSD + SATA SSDs.
Absolutely not. Pcie 4 storage is a rip off as it is.
The price of GPU still determine when I should buy a new build.
I guess no more new builds for you
Not in the foreseeable future…
holy crap. 10 core i5
nice
Calling it "10 core" is extremely misleading (dumb idea by Amazon on the listing). It's 6 performance cores with 4 efficiency cores, so should be listed as 6+4 or something.
It looks like under full load, the extra E cores will only give you a few % extra performance on average (review is for 8+8 but you get the idea).
“Ugh”.
I’d rather just have performance cores in a desktop package.
Same. Waste of silicon on a gaming machine, just like a iGPU.
@Lost-Sons of dallas: Yes as of now.. but if AMD could make an IGPU like the 6600 we would end the shortage a little
It looks like under full load, the extra E cores will only give you a few % extra performance on average(techpowerup.com) (review is for 8+8 but you get the idea).
Note that those figures are for gaming, games often can't even fully utilize a 6C/12T CPU.
No, the link provides productivity tests (the top graph) followed by gaming tests. You can check the individual pages for more details on each suite.
In their suite of non-gaming tests, the difference of 8+8 cores was 5-6% compared to just the 8 P cores. Some workloads such as rendering scaled much better than that average, but that's the nature of averages.
@[Deactivated]: That review has a C++ compiler test. Phoronix has a few compiler tests as well. There are probably a few other reviews with compile tests, but perhaps not exactly the compile test you're after.
@[Deactivated]: Got one i7 12700k to try. I tried on my wife's m1pro 8 core which takes 1/3 time compiling my project comparing to my i7 16 MacBook
ahhh! ok. fair enough
its not only amazon, cpubenchmark.net also lists it as 10 core 10 thread
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-12600…
Haha, it's not even a 10 thread CPU because the P cores have hyperthreading. I guess it'll take a while for everyone to get used to the right lingo!
yeah because making the listing more fking complicated is the solution
Anandtech says
"In the aggregate scores, an E-core is roughly 54-64% of a P-core, however this percentage can go as high as 65-73%. " See
https://www.anandtech.com/show/17047/the-intel-12th-gen-core…
The straight comparison between E cores and P cores is absolutely interesting, but almost completely irrelevant for real-world usage because nobody is going to be running their CPUs with only P or E cores enabled.
The most relevant metric here is P cores vs P+E cores (which more heavily tests scaling past 4-8 threads), not just P cores vs E cores. I.e. how much do the extra E cores help?
As I alluded to previously, the amount it matters depends on the workload. Most of the Anandtech tests (including SPEC) scale quite well with the extra E cores on top, whereas TPU's test suite doesn't scale as well (and again repeating that I am not referring to the gaming benchmarks, which for some ungodly reason a few people are assuming because they didn't take 10 seconds to check the linked review). For the average user, subjectively the TPU suite is more likely to reflect their usage (but might be selling the E cores a hair short). If you're a fluid dynamics researcher or do 3D rendering regularly then Anandtech's suite fits better.
@MHLoppy: It's not easy to take advantage of E cores. There are challenges:
And, there is the worst case. Letting E cores doing some database tasks in parallel ended up hurting the result big time:
https://tpucdn.com/review/intel-core-i9-12900k-alder-lake-12…
Perhaps if there is some kind of usage where the P cores are completely busy for a long period of time, and one wants to do some other light tasks in parallel (Web browsing, music listening), the presence of E cores may help.
Some workloads such as rendering scaled much better than that
The average user renders stuff these days.
@Diji1: The benefit of E-cores isn't clear yet. What we are seeing in most benchmarks are likely just P-core performance.
The reality is that you want to use P-core as much as possible. Only if P-cores are completely flooded AND you have a different set of tasks to do in parallel, the E-core comes in handy.
The mysql test shows that when you let E-cores do too much foreground tasks, you end up seeing performance closer to E-core (aka Kaby Lake). A lot of youTube videos indicate some of the performance Alder Lake gets is due to the E-cores. However, that "may" be incorrect. Really think about it, that doesn't make sense. If you look at Apple's approach on M1, only certain OS based tasks use the energy efficient cores. Apple is not stacking M1 Pro and M1 Max with lots of energy efficient cores.
Let's not forget Microsoft doesn't really want to support Kaby Lake for Windows 11 so clearly Kaby Lake cores aren't that great in today's standard.
@Diji1: If you glanced at the review, you'd notice that the 5-6% uplift in TPU's suite includes rendering, so your point is largely irrelevant.
Dayymmm this is what competition does eh
Who would have thought back in 2016 that we would be getting i5s with 16 threads
If we didn't have Ryzen we may be lucky to have 6core/6thread i5s by now lol
nah i doubt that. Still be 4C/4T just like how it was for 8 years.
i5 750 - 4C/4T - 2009
i5 7400 - 4C/4T - 2017
now in just 4 years we quadrupled the threads.
AMD didnt release their products out of the goodness of their hearts
time to get out of this mentality
Who said they did? All companies are about money.
Even if the cpu is reasonable… pay through the nose for mobo and especially the ddr5..
12700k is where the value is I think
I mean DDR5 can be added to a build whenever.
This entire launch is new this new that new windows it all adds up and iron out the early kinks all 3 processors will get better, got my 12600k dispatched with mobo and I’m keen as to get going with it
it still supports ddr4
Recommendations are just to stick with DDR4 for now. You don't have to get DDR5. Mobo prices are potentially an issue, but that is basically always the case with Intel K Sku CPU's.
It's a hot boi though acc to some reviews
The TLDR there seems to be;
Hot for rendering
Not for gaming
That's normal.
Some tasks like benchmarks and rendering use 100% CPU whereas gaming is usually a series of high speed bursts with low speed intervals.
For the i9-9900K it means air cooling such as NH-D15 works for gaming. But rendering requires water cooling or you go to 100C and throttling.
nowhere near as bad the i9s. the i5 is definitely manageable under air and such.
I know it’s new and shiny, but just because something is currently in stock doesn’t mean it’s a bargain.
You're right. Its just a newly released CPU. And from USA. There's nothing remotely interesting about this deal other than I wasnt aware 12 series intel was now out.
Yeah and the MB's are expensive…
Well its $519 on Australian sites so I would say this is a bargain.
This beats the 5600X and extremely competitive against the 5800X.
But runs hot lel.
getting it early means shipping from Amazon US? and it won't be out of stock according to ppl in US. Microcenter have all stock sitting on shelves