Reducing Traffic Noise in Home

discod on 24/09/2021 - 08:33

Hi All,

I recently moved into a ground level unit which is about 40m away from a major road in Melbourne.
The home is brick veneer and built in the 70s with standard timber frame windows (with window winders to open).
One of the bedrooms is somewhat shielded from the road directly with the bedroom window being at the end of a "tunnel" between

The traffic noise is definitely getting to me and I am looking to explore options on how I can reduce the traffic noise getting into my house.
It feels as if most of the noise is being transmitted through the windows.

I am not keen on roller shutters.

Things i have read about with mixed reviews and claims are:

  • Double Glazing (apparently best for higher frequencies like voices)
  • Secondary Glazing (i have seen tons of different results and claims here)
  • Laminated Glass
  • Installing thicker glass

Are there any other solutions to this?
Can anyone provide some insight on your experiences or recommendations dealing with this?

Home & Garden

Comments

    • lachhelix on 29/09/2021 - 00:48

      What's the rough cost for this kind of thing? I don't want to waste their time if it's going to cost $5k a window

  • foolsgold on 25/09/2021 - 16:50
    +6

    as an architect get this with a lot of people in older terrace style homes on main roads, hard to make a suggestion without seeing the actual existing conditions of the house.

    but a combination of the following
    - insulating external walls, densely packed insulation will perform better ie spray foam

    windows and glazing are complex
    - just standard double glazing will provide some improvement (which really depends on the windows there at the moment) but not heaps

    • you need a well sealed window and door frame system, the better the seal the better sound insulation provided
      rule of thumbs for glazing:
    • standard double glazing will provide some improvement but not a heap
    • thicker the glass generally the better, HushGlass or acoustically rated glass will even outperform a standard double glazed system

    double glazing with at minimum varying thickness panes of glass and air cavities, this will help with stopping the frequencies being able to transfer through
    triple glazing is also available you can install these on your problem areas

    next look at your frames, solid thermally broken frames will perform the best but cost the most
    uPVC frames seem to be the most cost effective at doing all the above specified with hush double glazing

    from here you can look at window furnishings, insulation seals etc. you can get solid insulating window shutters (ie plantation shutters not roller shutters) and even curtains

    after this it gets more complex as you need to change your walls etc.

    I doubt you need all the above, but I would like at improving insulation first, then replacing windows in the problem areas.

    • foolsgold on 25/09/2021 - 16:55
      +2

      theres some good notes up above from people who have actually done this, the important thing to take back from this is, the tolerances of any gaps will cause noise to creep in, so putting wizbang windows and having hollow walls is going to be a waste of money. retrofitting this without a wholistic approach could lead to a money not being spent efficiently. if you dont have a good idea engage a professional who isn't making money selling you a product, ie an acoustic engineer, I'd hesitate to recommend architect's as this isn't our precise expertise per say, and knowledge varies greatly in the industry depending on the projects that we have worked on.

      **edit to people saying their apartment with double glazed windows next to train/mainroad/insert sound night mare, these buildings are designed in consultation with an acoustic engineer almost always (at least since the 2000s), they have been designed from the ground up with a wholistic approach, ie acoustic doors, door frames, windows, seals, insulation, wall systems, to create an envelope. even things like solid fences etc help with sound transfer.

      • discod on 25/09/2021 - 19:55

        Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply, this is some great information and it is interesting about options and bang for buck.
        I completely agree regarding an Accoustic engineer and I was keen to see if there are any that can complete a study and provide recommendations, but I don't even know where to start.
        Where can I find an accoustic engineer that deals with this kind of stuff? I am assuming it is reasonably specialised.

        • Hangryuman on 26/09/2021 - 09:38
          +1

          'Where can I find an accoustic engineer'

          I would suggest using a free sound/db meter app on your smartphone - then hold the microphone end (usually the bottom edge) facing cracks around your window sills to see the db levels - and compare mid-wall and standing on a chair to measure mid-ceiling with mid-glass to see what difference there might be - no point spending money on windows if the same noise is coming through your walls or ceiling

          the readings would change constantly with varying traffic - but many displays show a peak reading for the session - use common sense to get a rough average over time for passing noisy trucks or motorbikes

          commonly we tolerate 80db during the day when 70db is normal conversational daily activity noise

          but at night when ambient can drop to 30db, even 32db could be disturbing, e.g. an air-conditioner noise next door

          I didn't see whether you own or rent - a major factor in what you can change

          but I've read optimum soundproofing from double-glazing might be around 100mm between sheets

          best sealed with flexible silicone to also absorb vibration

          if such wide gap double glazing is not suitable, thicker glazing like 8-10mm tends to transmit less noise - again bedded in flexible silicon type sealing - you do the math for what you think is cost-effective for your situation

          the other factor - ventilation - adding fixed sheets to reduce noise then feeling uncomfortable due to lack of fresh air is not a happy place - mould in winter is common in poorly ventilated bedrooms with warm moist air breathed out condensing on cold external walls or ceilings

          OP reminds me of friends who bought a 'bargain' 4 bedroom house feeling proud they 'saved' so much money - but it was close to a noisy street bus stop and they couldn't sleep - after 6 months they sold it for less than they paid - an expensive lesson in location and property values

          a reason quieter better locations are more expensive - is because people enjoy living there and don't want to leave - shippy locations are cheaper because they're unpleasant and you'll want to leave sooner.

        • y on 27/09/2021 - 14:16

          Agree with this - I have a house in Melbourne also near a major road. Getting some Kilargo acoustic seals installed on my front door made a big difference, any small air gaps will let sound in. I bought the seals myself and had someone from Airtasker install them.

          Also replaced all window panes at the front of the house with hush glass, had them nailed them shut with small nails and siliconed all the gaps (made the windows unopenable which is better for security anyway).

  • Nyclix on 25/09/2021 - 17:35
    +1

    Live in a brand new house that has double glazing. It's ridiculous how much noise it blocks out.

  • LFO on 25/09/2021 - 18:55

    Double Glazing (apparently best for higher frequencies like voices)

    Not a house but a hotel, 5th level right on one of the busiest and noisiest streets in town.

    Windows were double glazed and shut perfectly sealed. I opened one window "to hear the city" and the roaring was incredible.
    Good windows (glass and seals) will do the trick.

    Probably hotel walls were concrete or brick(s) (5th level). Between rooms wasn't all that quiet, so "exterior sound insulation" was better than internal one.

    In one level houses roof sarking and ceiling insulation will soundproof well

  • Orico on 25/09/2021 - 19:33

    Was in Hong Kong with triple glazed windows in a presidential suite and it's like an acoustic chamber. COuldn't hear the crazy sounds of hong kong or their 9pm light show.

  • Masteraal on 25/09/2021 - 19:44
    +2

    Plants/Trees/Shrubs will also help to an extent

    • resisting the urge on 26/09/2021 - 00:15

      I'd build the highest double brick wall I can, with a cavity in between the bricks as that really kills the noise coming through. Of course, noise will come from above, but none is direct noise pressure- it is refracted instead, so once you double glaze and seal most of the noise will be gone. Assuming the walls are preventing noise ingress enough.

      Grow a screening hedge, eg small leaf Lily-pilly. and/or a tree between the house and the wall, to prevent noise hitting the upper part of the house directly, later on.

      Wind in the leaves is about the best white noise you can get too.

  • OzHunterNSW on 25/09/2021 - 20:03

    The sound of the rattling tram late at night, the pita pita of rain drops, were all once so romantic… now finding yourself on ground floor, you have to ensure safety from opportunistic drugoes and the like.

    Nail the window shut. Try growing a sort of tee infant of the window. Enquire about double glazing the window. Look at egg cartons, rubber sheeting, thick heavy curtains, placing a wardrobe in front of the window. A large wall painting perhaps. Moove your bed away from the window as much as possibly so. And sleep with your head away from the window direction.

    We are still in lockdown, so image when we are free…. you are going to cop the morning rush hour and the afternoon as well.

    • geckobrainz on 26/09/2021 - 08:47
      +2

      Yep, there's nothing light the sound of flatbreads landing on the roof…!

  • butwhy on 25/09/2021 - 20:38

    You don't have to install new frames if they are in good condition.

    http://www.diydoubleglaze.com.au/

    I've done it at my place with the above. I've also used a glazier to do a section.

    Double glazing does make a big difference but it's all relative. Use different thickness panes in the unit to cut out different frequencies. The bigger the gap the better. You might as well pay that little bit more for argon filled and low E to get better thermal performance.

    I'm guessing your current windows might only be 3mm thick glass. If suggest 4 and 6mm in the DG unit.

    As another has posted, you need to gap seal everything like a maniac. I think the raven brand rubber style strips are better than the sponge type. Think also under doors etc.

    Also think about putting acoustic ceiling insulation in if you have easy access. It also has thermal properties. I haven't looked into it, but I'm assuming under floor would be useful too if it is easy to get to.

    Thicker curtains and carpets/rugs will help.

    If you have ceiling exhaust fans, get draft stoppas.

    All of this will also help to reduce your heating and cooling bills.

    • discod on 26/09/2021 - 20:01

      Thank you, I came across that site and was interested in investigating.

      What was your experience with the DIY double glaze like?
      Can I ask what the cost was and what you had done?
      What were the results like?

  • ribze1 on 25/09/2021 - 22:07
    +4

    As much as i love the Internal Combustion Engine i look forward to an all engine world where there is no traffic noise.

    • StonedWizard on 02/10/2021 - 09:15

      You’re still going to get noise from braking and tires. EV are quiet, but not silent.

  • stefan on 25/09/2021 - 22:35

    We have just ordered double glazed windows with 10mm acoustic glass. Waiting for the install to know how well it works.
    We insulated our ceiling and it made a difference.
    Make sure you have insulation in your ceiling and walls. Being brick veneer sound would also travel through the walls as well as windows.
    Until you decide about the windows just use heavy curtains. We also cut foam to the size of the window and put it up at night. Makes a big difference and cost $20.
    Good luck.

  • xazark on 26/09/2021 - 00:33

    Are there any other solutions to this?

    Move to regional, much less traffic to have to deal with. I mean I get annoyed when I have to wait for 2 cars to go past whem I'm turning right onto the main road in town.

  • jv on 26/09/2021 - 00:35

    Are there any other solutions to this?

    this ?

  • IAMTONY on 26/09/2021 - 01:05

    Out of all the components that make up a house, glass windows perform the worst when it comes to noise attenuation (low frequencies such as traffic noise). Thicker glass or double glazing would be your best bet, there aren't many ways to cheat acoustics. (old timber window frames can also cause issues with noise).

    If you want to block the windows with something (ideally something thick and soft), it has to AT LEAST cover the entire glass window. Thick curtains would help, but mileage may vary. However, this wouldn't come close to the performance of double glazing.

    Depending on how much you are willing to spend, you can consult an acoustic engineer (they are expensive).

  • Lucille Bluth on 26/09/2021 - 08:33

    All my windows are double glazed and it's still loud inside especially from trucks and motorbikes. It makes a difference but it's not a miracle solution.

    I don't sleep in the master bedroom anymore, instead opted to sleep in a spare bedroom at the other side of the house and made a massive difference to my sleep quality

    • stefan on 26/09/2021 - 08:56

      What is your wall construction? When we did our research brick veneer without insulation will let a lot of noise in as would uninsulated ceiling or floor.

      • Lucille Bluth on 26/09/2021 - 09:20

        Double bricked veneer, rendered, plastered and insulated. To be fair, the entire double glazed window in the master bedroom is massive and is floor to ceiling almost. Only solution would be roller shutters.

        I actually like being in a smaller bedroom, is quicker to clean and doesn't bake in summer heat before going to sleep hah!

        • stefan on 26/09/2021 - 09:35

          Wow. We have double brick and waiting for our windows to be installed. We did pay extra to get thick laminated glass. Fingers crossed it works!

  • lonewolf on 26/09/2021 - 10:24

    Its because these days developers / construction skimp out on quality anywhere they can to increase their profit margins. When my parents built their house, We never had any problems with Traffic noise etc even on the front facing bedrooms with large multiple windows etc. I had no clue that wasnt the case anymore, when i bought my place, Traffic noise as well as just people walking out on the streets would come right through the windows, They obviously went cheap on the window glass as well as the frame / insulation etc. What I did was i had some blinds already there and i bought some Blockout Curtains to help with the light and noise. It helped somewhat but still there is noise (luckily i am not on too busy a street). Double glazing I have been told is the best option.

  • retailsaver on 26/09/2021 - 11:06
    +6

    We had the same issue at our brick veneer place and recently went all out to fix it, and are so glad we did.

    • Added secondary glazing on the inside. The secondary glazing window panes were very thick 8.38-10.38mm laminate glass. If possible avoid sliders because they don't create as good a seal as casement or awning openings.

    • Added BAL-40 rated roller shutters on the outside (they are thicker and heavier than normal shutters so help more with blocking noise).

    • Added thickest insulation available (R 2.7) between external brick and internal plaster.

    The above made a big difference, but then we also did the following:

    • Added mass loaded vinyl (MLV) between the studs and plaster, and also on top of the floorboards.

    • Added 2 layers double density plaster on the walls and ceiling, and a layer of semi flexible mastic in between the 2 layers of plaster.

    • Added putty pads around electrical boxes to block noise coming through plaster cut outs.

    • Added very thick carpet on top of the MLV on the floor. Bonus with this is it feels great when walking on it.

    • Added floor to ceiling, wall to wall thick curtains over the window.

    Doing all of the above gave us 30-40 decibel reduction in noise (which equates to about 90% noise reduction).

    Above will cost about $5-10k per room, depending on how much work you are willing to do yourself.

    Before any changes, we could hear every car, bus and plane go past, and half of them caused sound reverberations in the room. We could also hear people's conversations as they walked past.

    Now we only hear the very loud vehicles and planes that create low frequency / bass noises, and even those sounds are greatly decreased. People's voices have now also disappeared completely.

    We are also looking at increasing our ceiling insulation, and also adding under floor insulation.

    Things to avoid:

    • Don't install downlights, as the large hole you cut out of the ceiling will make it easier for sound to get through.

    Feel free to message me if you want more info or advice.

    • kiitos on 26/09/2021 - 11:37

      Impressive! (Though I couldn't help picturing you having to stoop and creep around in a room that has shrunk in all dimensions! :-))

      • retailsaver on 26/09/2021 - 14:32
        +1

        We lost about 15mm from the walls, which wasn't at all noticeable.

        We lost 10mm from the ceiling, and 15mm from the floors, however since we also removed the cornices and made the ceilings square set, it resulted in the room feeling taller than before (and this is with 2.4m high ceilings).

    • discod on 26/09/2021 - 20:06

      Wow, those are seriously impressive results.
      How does the secondary glazing work if you have winder windows?

      • retailsaver on 26/09/2021 - 20:24
        +1

        Depends on the configuration of your winder.

        If you have enough room in your window reveal for a second, thinner window frame, then you should be able to install the secondary glazing frame into your reveal, with the movable sashes of the secondary glazed unit lining up with your winder sashes (which will allow you to still use your existing winders when needed).

        Otherwise if there is no room in your reveal then you may have to look at replacing your existing window with double glazing (and if so, invest a bit more into a double glazed unit which has thick panes 6-10mm on each side, the external side being laminated glass, and as large of an air/gas gap between the two panes as possible).

    • TEER3X on 26/09/2021 - 20:35

      I would've started at just double glazing windows (at a bare minimum), usually that's all that's required, but if you have the dough, nothing wrong with going all out.

      • retailsaver on 26/09/2021 - 22:47

        We started with the secondary glazing (we chose that instead of double glazing because research showed us it results in better sound reduction than double glazing, and required less work).

        After we received a sound reduction from the windows, we then realised a lot of sound was coming through the walls.

        One thing led to another and before we knew it, we had effectively gutted the entire room to have a clean slate to build upon properly.

  • STW17 on 26/09/2021 - 11:25
    +2

    Your cheapest option would be to replace the existing seals (if your windows have any) with acoustic seals. If the widows are fro the 70s they would only have 3mm in them at the moment. you would want to replace this with an acoustic laminate perfectible a 8.76 or 10.76, only issue is as the glass is thicker so you may need to get new timber beads unless it is putty glazed. the best option would be IGU's (double glazing) but it will be a lot more expensive as the old windows will need to be remove. but being in Melbourne is will also help a lot in winter and summer with keeping the house hot and cold. If you have more questions feel free to message me I'm a glazier with my own business

  • amsaini15 on 26/09/2021 - 12:11

    Would Low E glass also help or it has to be double glazed as effective barrier against noise?

    • STW17 on 26/09/2021 - 12:18
      +1

      Low E is a coating on the glass that increases the energy efficiency. it doesn't help with the Rw (noise) rating

      • amsaini15 on 26/09/2021 - 12:24

        Ok Thanks. So probably only help with heat regulation.
        My house won't have trucks in the front road but still there can be few cars until late as it is slightly busy.

        • STW17 on 26/09/2021 - 12:47

          Yep thats right,
          a few things to note with the Low E is due to the Low E coating, it may exhibit a milky white to light blue haze when viewed under certain lighting conditions. This effect may also be observed at night when down lights are positioned in close proximity to the glass.
          The glass has a durable Low E coating to the inner surface that requires a specialised cleaning procedure.

          You may want to look at a laminated glass as it can help with the heat regulation and the noise

  • Wallyt99 on 26/09/2021 - 17:57
    +3

    I used to live on a main road (6 Lane) and we had secondary glazing.

    Alot of people who are suggesting double glazing really have never experienced secondary glazing. The big noise reducer is the air gap between the windows and for double glazing it's just not enough to do the trick.

    Secondary glazing has an amazing ability to reduce noise.

    If you are in a unit you also likely have body corporate rules that may prevent you from changing the frames outside so another win for secondary glazing.

    Ultimately, we ended up selling the apartment because whilst the secondary glazing made it quiet, that all disappeared as soon as we opened the window. We got pretty tired of the road noise.

  • nightfever on 26/09/2021 - 18:59

    I used to live on the main road facing ground floor 2 bedroom unit. The unit came with double glazing windows, it does block out the noise.

    The bedroom that’s closer to the main road, is still a bit noisy, as it’s one of the main roads and has trams run like 24/7.

    The main bedroom is set back and slightly further away from the main road, had double glazing, blinds, sheers and heavy curtain. It’s a lot more quieter than the other bedroom that sits closer to the main road.

    Given you're in an unit with standard window, it’s probably best to have secondary glazing. Since double glazing - you’ll have to replace the frames, etc. It would be hard for strata to approve that.

    Have you ever considered acoustic curtains? I’ve never had one, so cannot speak on behalf of it. It might be something that you could consider as well.

  • tessel on 26/09/2021 - 19:22

    Double glazed is what you need. If you own it and it's a huge problem, just pay to have it installed. It's not cheap and I mean really not cheap but it will make a difference. Also, please note it will not completely stop the noise. There are YouTube videos which show the different kinds of glazing and what it does to reduce noise. It will definitely help dull the noise but again it's not cheap.

  • BOOOWA on 26/09/2021 - 19:45

    I used to live on the first floor of a restaurant next to a major road and my window is only a nature strip away from the road and sometimes you hear 20 bikies riding past at night time. In the beginning, it was intolerable and I couldn't sleep very well but after a month or so I got used to it and just didn't hear it anymore. I thought this may offer some level of comfort.

  • sa5ha on 26/09/2021 - 21:12

    Double glazed windows would be my recommendation.
    I lived one house back from a busy train line in Melbourne for 3 years with double glazing and found it made a massive difference to noise.

  • rack on 27/09/2021 - 02:39
    +4

    Nothing will work. We sold up ours once we realised how bad the noise was at night when trying to sleep. The trucks and the compression braking were the worst. Worst than noise was the air pollution. Every leaf on every plant, every inch of every surface was covered with black sticky dust. Not even easily wipeable. This is what we were breathing in. Despite keeping all windows shut and ventilation fans going it was no use. Kept on getting respiratory illnesses therefore moved. Haven't been sick since I moved or that could be due to the lockdown as well.

    • matt-ozb on 27/09/2021 - 07:29

      Agree with the above .. time to sell .. the noise impact is temporary .. the impact to your health could be permanent ..

  • Soldier on 27/09/2021 - 09:40

    white noise machine, not a cheap one that will just blast out static noise, but something like Stream /forest/rain sounds etc

  • xavster on 27/09/2021 - 09:48
    +1

    Hi,

    I have house that faces a main road, here's what we went for:

    • secondary double glazed window behind the original window
    • using laminated glass (more sound absorption)
    • UPVC frame for thermal performance
    • opting for the largest internal air gap between the double glazing
    • silicon seal (inside and outside the window frame) to create air gaps
    • total cost for 4 windows was ~$5000 with each window dimension about 600mm wide and 1200mm tall

    This pretty much reduces the noise problem to a non-issue.

    • watwatwat on 27/09/2021 - 10:07

      Did a company install this for you?

      • xavster on 27/09/2021 - 10:42

        Yes, installation was included. This was about 2017, so prices would be higher today.

        • retailsaver on 28/09/2021 - 09:28

          Which company did the supply and install? We looked at getting UPVC windows installed but they were all very expensive.

  • zephyrfox on 27/09/2021 - 10:46

    Generally the lowest performer for sound insulation is your windows as general aus windows are just cheap 4mm glass, which performs worse than 13mm gyprock (which also isn't great). If you can afford it, replace the whole windows with double glaze and make one of the glazing panels laminated glass. Should cut high and low freq noise.

    When they fit the windows make sure they fill all the gaps between the framing with acoustic sealant. Air gaps will make all the hard work worthless.

  • Chong on 27/09/2021 - 11:19
    +2

    Most are saying double glazing, but the obvious one for me is also gaps around doors/windows (especially if its sliding windows)

    Any gaps to the outside should cut down noise tremedously, and the gap below and above doors to outside is usually missed. Also will help with insulation.

    I think if you do that and additional glazing should help.

    • matt-ozb on 27/09/2021 - 13:17

      +1 … really need to get a noise meter to confirm the source for noise penetration and the best bang for buck and resolution of problem.

  • rorypitt on 27/09/2021 - 15:30

    the best secondary glazing product in Victoria if you're located there: https://www.soundproofglazing.com.au/

  • watwatwat on 27/09/2021 - 15:51

    Besides magnetite, is there another company in Sydney who installs secondary windows for noise purposes?

  • ChadHominem on 27/09/2021 - 18:24

    I haven’t tested but supposedly helium is good for noise reduction
    https://youtu.be/_a_dnAz4Ryo

    Maybe use a wall of giant 21st bday balloons 😆

  • WhoGiveAShxt on 27/09/2021 - 20:24

    Moving out??

  • HerpinDerp on 28/09/2021 - 19:11

    Paid 2700 for a 2700x1400x1cm Soundtite window in my master.

    Worth every cent. But unfortunately it would cost 10-15k to do everything else lol

  • justgooddeals on 28/09/2021 - 22:07

    Using thick heavy fabric curtains can help muffle the noise. As well as block out the light to help you get good nights sleep

    Sound also comes through the ceiling so fatbatts designed for heating/cooling will also provide a measure of sound insulation.

  • morse on 29/09/2021 - 01:03

    In addition to what everyone else has already said if there are existing air vents, consider replacing them with these noise reducing vents or similar https://silenceair.com/silenceair-acoustic-ventilator/

    I’d probably go with a multiple strategies like what retailsaver mentioned above, with windows, seals and shutters as a priority. I’d also consider a hedge or fence if there is space.

  • stedmaster on 05/10/2021 - 18:38

    Home/space active noise cancellation looks as though its becoming a thing.

    Stick a few modules outside with a system inside that does inverse with dsp of the outside noise to negate it.

    Could eventually be cheaper than reglazing or sound proofing a place.

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