Speaking to HR - Do I Have Privilege of Confidentiality?

SlavOz on 11/02/2021 - 17:48
Last edited 11/02/2021 - 17:49

I've been working on a plan to ask for a salary renegotiation from my employer. The thing is, I literally have no idea how this works at my company. There are no open platforms where this can be instigated or requested so I wanted to have an informal discussion with HR about the best way forward or what options are available.

That being said, I don't want to officially make my intentions known to my managers or the business just yet. If I request confidentiality, is HR obliged to grant this or can they legally reveal my intentions to my manager?

Tbf it doesn't really bother me if they do, would just be helpful to know.

Education & Work

Comments

  • srsparky on 11/02/2021 - 17:52
    +168

    Although I don't know the answer to your question, just keep in mind that HR works for your employer, not the employees.

      • Drakesy on 11/02/2021 - 18:53
        +76

        oof

      • [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 19:09
        +82

        Your job could be pushing you to the brink of suicide and your HR department won't bat an eyelid if you kill yourself.

        Their only concern will be to absolve the company of any liability for your death.

        • nikey2k27 on 13/02/2021 - 13:32
          +1

          They sent miss a nice bunch of flower maybe let staff go to the funeral.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2021 - 21:22

            @nikey2k27: Can't send flowers… There is a chance it could be misconstrued as an admission of guilt.

            Better not, and it'll save the company $30.

        • dsar on 13/02/2021 - 22:03
          -2

          That is just simply not true as a general statement. HR has a responsibility for their employees wellbeing and safety at work.

          • [Deactivated] on 13/02/2021 - 22:05

            @dsar: All responsibility, zero accountability.

      • bloom on 11/02/2021 - 19:40
        +14

        Oh no he didn’t!

      • SF3 on 11/02/2021 - 20:46
        +15

        HR really do have a desire to help people.

        Yes, when it comes to policy breach.

        No, when it comes to your salary.

        • petry on 12/02/2021 - 12:59
          +4

          anyone who seriously believes in their hr spends 2 much time watching telly and reading crap…

          • Kangal on 13/02/2021 - 09:43

            @petry: We all gotta learn the hard way :(

      • aboogee on 12/02/2021 - 12:55

        I don't know…
        Suspect most of us here are males….

        • SlickMick on 12/02/2021 - 22:22
          +1

          109 of us are… though I gotta admit I thought he'd said they don't have a desire to help people and thouight he was hating on our women folk, but when I re-read it I think he was trying to say something nice and positive… and we guys are far too sensitive

      • lddv04 on 12/02/2021 - 14:01
        -2

        There is no scientific evidence to suggest that women are better carers than men.

        • Ughhh on 12/02/2021 - 14:08
          +5

          There is no scientific evidence to suggest that women are better carers than men.

          Personalities do tend to differ from each gender and may posses certain traits that may be perceived as more caring.

        • SlavOz on 12/02/2021 - 16:24
          +7

          James Damore wrote a pretty well researched and studied memo while working at Google outlining why there are so few women in STEM fields.

          Basically it came down to women being more interested in people and relationships while men are more interested by tangible objects.

          Most industry data tends to confirm this. Women dominate careers which involve inter-personal care or communication (nursing, HR, teaching, childcare, etc)

          That doesn't mean they're better carers (which wasn't my claim) - it means they're more willing to care. What's interesting is that even in egalitarian places like Scandinavia which eliminate gender barriers or stigmas, the results tend to stay the same. Women keep going into inter-personal fields whereas men stick to STEM, construction, management etc

          • redslert on 12/02/2021 - 16:28
            -2

            @SlavOz: Mate, best to stop and don't dig any further down this hole you are in.

            • SlavOz on 12/02/2021 - 16:30
              +14

              @redslert: I've been away for a few weeks but I don't remember Ozbargain being this woke. Are people really offended by pointing out differences between men and women using industry data or is this some joke I'm not getting?

              • SlickMick on 12/02/2021 - 22:28
                +1

                @SlavOz: I think there was a huge overaction - either we have some really precious guys here, or they, like me, misread what you said and thought you were saying women go into HR to bully people

              • bmerigan on 12/02/2021 - 22:41

                @SlavOz: Oh yes. The voting is harsh around here

              • ozbjunkie on 13/02/2021 - 08:37
                +13

                @SlavOz: The thing is bud you're being downvoted on all sides.

                The woke brigade won't stand for your sexism.

                And people who are getting a little tired of the notion that women are the most oppressed people in western civilization are going to neg you for vocalising the subtext of the conversation which is, generally, women good, men bad.

                Finally dealing solely with the content of your post, HR are not, and will never be, your friend or corporate advocate. I bet the majority of downvoted arose here. Rather than people with polar political beliefs.

                Although I do commend you on being able to annoy everyone at once. Good show.

                • smartazz104 on 13/02/2021 - 11:14
                  +1

                  @ozbjunkie:

                  The woke brigade won't stand for your sexism.

                  But they are happy to take advantage of bargains for items made by slave labour.

                  • ozbjunkie on 13/02/2021 - 13:29
                    +1

                    @smartazz104: Of course they are. A good portion of identity politics is simply people fighting for the interests of their own demographic while identifying with something purportedly larger and more meaningful.

                • SlavOz on 14/02/2021 - 22:57
                  +1

                  @ozbjunkie: This probably gets said on the internet too much but I'm really laughing my ass off right now. Thank you for your post ozbjunkie, helpful yet brutal at the same time.

            • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2021 - 18:04
              +1

              @redslert: What do you think about this documentary: Hjernevask (Brainwash) - The Gender Equality Paradox

            • SF3 on 13/02/2021 - 00:19

              @redslert: Its called a blind spot/self in a Johari window. This is why you were able to call it out.

        • Freitag on 14/02/2021 - 06:41

          Women are generally more agreeable (in the specific personality trait sense of the word) being more agreeable can make you better at empathising with others and caring for them. You can still care for someone while being disagreeable but it will come off similar to the cold doctor who doesn’t have a good bedside manner, I.e. doesn’t show empathy.

      • kaleidoscope on 12/02/2021 - 14:16
        +10

        your experience is wrong. their whole intention is company first, you second

      • ripesashimi on 12/02/2021 - 14:29
        +2

        Damn. Didn't see that coming. What a dark twist.

      • redslert on 12/02/2021 - 16:15
        +2

        LOOOOOOOOOOOL

      • adante on 12/02/2021 - 18:32

        Out of curiousity are you still working here? https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/520317

      • Seni0r El Cheapo on 12/02/2021 - 18:55

        Stockholme syndrome?

      • mrvaluepack on 12/02/2021 - 20:56
        +1

        Dominated by women, yes. Desire to help? Nope.

      • earth worm jim on 13/02/2021 - 11:21
        +1

        *SimpOz

      • berry580 on 14/02/2021 - 02:36

        No, and that's sexist.

    • RockyRaccoon on 11/02/2021 - 21:14
      +27

      HR = Human Resources

      You are a resource to be used.

      That should tell you everything you need to know about dealing with HR.\

      In the olden days it was Personell

      By all means tell HR you want to kept between you and them. Just only tell them stuff you want your manager to hear.

    • Pufff on 11/02/2021 - 21:40
      +3

      lol you are either dreaming or don't know much about corporate life.

  • stratbargain on 11/02/2021 - 17:54
    +50

    This is a conversation you should be having with your manager, not HR.

    • Hardlyworkin on 11/02/2021 - 19:32
      +33

      Op might struggle in that conversation if his manager is a woman.

    • SF3 on 11/02/2021 - 20:57
      +1

      Yes, HR will ask OP to speak to his manager first, then his manager will ask him to speak HR, then repeat.

  • keejoonc on 11/02/2021 - 18:04
    +11

    HR is not your doctor or lawyer.

  • AndyC1 on 11/02/2021 - 18:06
    +14

    HR are "THE COMPANY", so speaking to HR is like speaking to your manager. If you get on well with your manager ask them if there is a HR policy that outlines the different positions and grades within your area and what the responsibilities of the positions are, assuming you know what your grade is.

    From this info you can then use the info to get an increase in the grade and therefore a pay increase.

    And management only know you want to find out how to go up in the company, so you look good to them.

    I have had better luck with speaking to managers that I know and trust of the condition of confidentiality than trying to deal with HR and in more than 50% of the time the result was that HR were useless and do not care about staff…. Which is not good, but that's normal for HR.

  • Drakesy on 11/02/2021 - 18:09
    +3

    Pushing for pay rises in these times is always going to be difficult, your manager's going to have to come into it anyway as it'll be their call based on their performance review of you.

    However the HR people really should brief you on the procedure surrounding this without disclosing it to your manager. Having a timid approach to this though (asking for confidentiality etc.) might have a negative impact on the request though, it gives the vibe that you don't want to upset anyone and will accept what they have to say.

    My failsafe is to go out to market to a company that you're happy to work for at the wage you want, get an offer and put it on the table.

    It's the 21st century unfortunately company loyalty is a thing of the past and employees are treated as disposable cannon fodder. Staying at the same company would've cost me ~20% of my pay.

    • AndyC1 on 11/02/2021 - 18:48

      How many times have the companies you have worked for have said see you later?

      • Drakesy on 11/02/2021 - 18:52

        zero.
        Left on good terms everytime.

        • AndyC1 on 11/02/2021 - 18:56
          -2

          I have seen it over a long period of time where most of the time (>50%, I think 75%) where other people have tried this and management have said see you later.
          So from my second hand experience it back fires more than it works. I have said to management that If things do not change I will start looking, which worked as I gave them time to fix things and they did.

          • pharkurnell on 11/02/2021 - 19:01
            +5

            @AndyC1:

            So from my second hand experience it back fires more than it works.

            or you get the sob story times are tough, waahhhhhhh, and the boss needs a new swimming pool at home, so theres no chance of more money for those that do the work.

          • [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 19:06
            +1

            @AndyC1:

            management have said see you later.

            Unfair dismissal.

            So from my second hand experience it back fires more than it works.

            Lucky they already have an offer to go work somewhere else "get an offer and put it on the table."

          • ceroau on 24/04/2021 - 07:01

            @AndyC1: If it failed it’s most likely because of attitude and approach. I started with my current company because someone tried this approach. However he came to the table saying “give this big promotion and pay rise you absolutely need me cause there no one else who can do this job, I have this other job offer so if you don’t give to me I’ll walk”
            They said see you later not even a week later I was working his job and not only did I wind up doing the things he thought no else would know how to do (by design cause he didn’t document things) I ended up doing things better a little over 12 months later I got paid more then he originally asked for and given a promotion. Moral of the story is if you go in there with the king shit attitude of “look how valuable I am you absolutely need me give me what I want or I’ll walk” you better be prepared to get your marching orders cause it a power play which means you really should be ina position of power therefore just as happy to walk away and take the other job. the other job offer in a pay rise/ promotion negotiations should be used as nothing more than bit of leverage mainly used as an example to highlight your value as soon as you start pushing it on the negotiation table as a real possibility that you’ll leave and utilise it to make demands opposed to suggestions/offers you put the company on the defensive. Most companies most times won’t see the employee as anywhere near as valuable or integral to the business as the employee often sees themselves

  • Baysew on 11/02/2021 - 18:10
    +13

    Ask for Cone of Silence.

    • elgrande on 11/02/2021 - 20:13
      +6

      Just start the convo by saying "this is off the record"..

    • petry on 12/02/2021 - 12:57
      +1

      then take the cone and go sit in the corner with it on your head quietly

  • Okayy on 11/02/2021 - 18:14
    +1

    Talk to your manager.

  • tsunamisurfer on 11/02/2021 - 18:20
    +4

    This does not need to be a convoluted affair.

    You compile your list of rationales and the desired wage level.

    Either wait until your salary review or call a meeting with line manager where you table what you want and why.

    Have a plan what you will do if they say no, do you leave, do you offer to take on more responsibility, etc.

    Asking HR is not much help.

  • [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 18:52
    +14

    HR is there to help and protect the company, not to help you in any shape, way, or form.
    HR will say things like they are there for employees, there to help you, etc. but they are not.

    The absolute biggest mistake you can ever make in your life is to think that HR is there for you.

    Your direct manager is the person you should be speaking to about this.

  • [Deactivated] on 11/02/2021 - 18:54
    +8

    There are generally 2 times you can negotiate pay with an employer.

    The first is when you seek the job. This is the very best time to negotiate salary. Of course if there is a lot of competition it will be hard to justify a high price for your services. But once you've agreed terms it becomes extremely difficult to negotiate any rise if you remain at the company. Which brings us to…

    The second is when you've got another job offer in hand, you can use the threat of leaving to negotiate a higher salary. But this is rarely something you want to do for several reasons. One is that people generally look for another job because they're unhappy in the current job, so more money isn't going to fix whatever led you to seek alternatives.

    By all means ask for a raise, maybe your employer is extremely generous and would like to do you a favour. But they don't have to because what are you going to do, leave? If you have a mortgage, big family, or are in a competitive industry, what's the likelihood of you actually going? And how quickly could they replace you?

    • Seraphin7 on 11/02/2021 - 19:51
      +3

      100% correct.

      The reality of it is that even for "high performers", annual wage increases are typically pretty modest even in the "good times".

      If you are able to secure a genuine promotion (i.e. the person you report moves on and you take over their job, or similar arrangement across departments), there's scope there, but otherwise simply "being better" at your job won't get you there.

      Beyond promotions as described above, I've managed two pay rises outside the annual process in my career. One was I was simply on good enough terms with all relevant people and had managed to turnaround a problem area, the second was where I effectively took a haircut after the previous gig fell through, but demonstrated over 18 months or so that I was clearly able to take or greater responsibilities.

      The kicker in both cases is that it was based on sustained performance/demonstration of abilities, and even then the negotiations took several months to resolve. Not that there were deep negotiations as such, but recognising that even where the request is well received it's not one meeting and more money in your sky rocket at the end of the week.

      • field1985 on 13/02/2021 - 11:28

        "The reality of it is that even for "high performers", annual wage increases are typically pretty modest even in the "good times"."

        Not in my experience. I've had 40%+ annual wage increases in the past two years (from Grade 2 ~$48k to Grade 5 ~$120k). I don't work in some ponzi sales job either, I work in the Public Service (gov), in a permanent full time role.

        "Being better" got me there. I worked my guts out and the team around me recognised that (even though management didn't). So whenever job opportunities came up in their networks, they recommended me and would provide glowing references. It worked.. I routinely get offers and have negotiated two grade jumps. With another on the horizon.

        This was in spite (and to spite) my horrible manager that blocked pay rises (despite stellar performance) and even blocked mulitple secondments (because I was "too critical to the business"). Costing me $10k's in the process. He got his comeuppance and is now being sent to management training and has to perform my old role. I'm now on the same salary as him, soon to overtake (even though he's 20 years my senior).

        • Seraphin7 on 13/02/2021 - 15:21

          You've obviously been very fortunate in moving through the lower level grades quickly, which can be important to establishing yourself as a higher earner in mid-to-late career, but I'm assuming those moves in grades are promotions, not just pay rises while doing the same job?

          • field1985 on 13/02/2021 - 16:48

            @Seraphin7: One was a grade review (that I instigated through senior management) of my role (not me or my performance). Where my role was compared to similar roles and found to be underpaid. So there were no increase in responsibilities and not strictly a "promotion".

            The second was a "tap on the shoulder" to take over a different role, because someone was retiring and I had proven myself to be a capable and willing worker, not someone that palms off their work and disappears in pointless meetings all day.

  • original15 on 11/02/2021 - 19:34

    If your company is reasonably sized and has proper policies/HR there should be resources to help you understand pay, reward and performance. Often tied in here are details around pay reviews.

    As others have said, this seems to be more a conversation between you and manager rather than HR. But depending on role/level/company it is likely not simply up to your manager to set your pay/determine pay increases

    Go in to the discussion with your manager prepared to detail why you deserve an increase (info on your wage compared to others, your contributions compared to others, time since last pay increase would likely help) but it’s mostly tough times for businesses right now (obviously depends on your company/industry etc) so pay increases aren’t as free flowing/it’s a common excuse used right now anyway

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 11/02/2021 - 19:36
    +5

    In my experience HR are generally useless (profanity) that will do whats in the best interest of the employer even if it is unethical and/or illegal

    I would just go straight to the boss and and ask for more money

  • thatonethere on 11/02/2021 - 19:49
    -1

    If you want independent confident advice get your own employment lawyer.

    Do not even trust a union rep. They operate on the greater good.

  • bobbified on 11/02/2021 - 21:10

    You will have the privilege of confidentiality if there was something to keep confidential. For payrises, they'll simply tell you to go speak to your manager.

  • Tily on 11/02/2021 - 21:29

    You need to have a chat with your boss first to discuss wanting an increase and your justification on why you deserve it. If they’re not on your side to support/justify your case with management and HR, very likely your request won’t go far.

  • onetwothreefour on 11/02/2021 - 23:39
    +2

    Just say you are asking for a "friend", it always works on ozbargain.

  • FoxJump on 12/02/2021 - 02:57
    +8

    I asked my manager for a payrise.
    A week later I had a chat with him and hr

    They said no
    A month later I found a job that paid more than what I had asked for and so i quit for first job.

    • ddhar on 15/02/2021 - 08:11

      This is sadly a reality. You simply have no leverage to ask for pay rise without a job offer. My pay rises have always been from moving to a new company.

  • leeweesquee on 12/02/2021 - 07:49

    HR is the Internal Affairs of a company

    • petry on 12/02/2021 - 12:55
      +3

      typo - inFernal Affairs

  • Hedgehog on 12/02/2021 - 08:08
    +3

    HR is the employers spy, ears and mouthpiece of the company in my experience.

  • MontyMacaw on 12/02/2021 - 09:02
    +5

    There is no such thing as “off the record”. Period.

  • orangetrain on 12/02/2021 - 12:02

    HR is your friend if you pay them.

    • petry on 12/02/2021 - 13:01

      not even then…

  • MS Paint on 12/02/2021 - 12:22

    Sell the mustang. Instant pay rise.

  • Lord Fart Bucket on 12/02/2021 - 12:52
    +5

    I've been working on a plan to ask for a salary renegotiation from my employer.

    I sooo hope your employer reads this. Especially the "women in HR".

  • petry on 12/02/2021 - 12:55

    who was the comic who had the line 'are you serious'?

  • jjacob on 12/02/2021 - 13:02

    Read this http://rachelbythebay.com/w/2021/01/17/woe/

  • SnakeCasablanca on 12/02/2021 - 13:07

    If you want a payrise. Speak to your manager bluntly. If they won't help HR will not help.

    In the end , its not the companies job (nor in their interest) to explain to you how to get paid more by them.

    If you are valuable to the company go to market and get a job offer from another company, then go to your current company and say that you have a job offer at a higher salary, but you would stay if they match / increase the offer. If you ARE valuable enough, they will match / increase. If you aren't they will let you go and BOOM… Payrise.

    If you can't find another job at a higher rate, then there is no reason they should ever consider increasing your salary.

    • petry on 12/02/2021 - 13:10

      and prepare to be let go when the company gets the opportunity after any 'chat'.

    • TheBird on 12/02/2021 - 13:34
      +1

      In the end , its not the companies job (nor in their interest) to explain to you how to get paid more by them.

      This does depend on the job. Take sales for instance. Wanna get paid more, sell more. It's a win-win so the company should be more than willing to help them earn more.

      • SnakeCasablanca on 12/02/2021 - 13:47
        +1

        True. There is an exception to that point for any commission based roles.

        • TheBird on 13/02/2021 - 23:17

          Not necessarily just commission, but any performance based positions and almost any job where there are potential bonuses.

          There are also plenty of organisations where supervisors/managers get bonuses based on their subordinates and/or group performance.

          I was only showing there are exceptions. Good companies do what they can to get away from this us vs them scenarios and promote more of a team environment.

    • JuryWheel on 12/02/2021 - 15:35

      just said the same thing before reading you reply. Yep, best method - also shows how well valued at the company you are!

  • [Deactivated] on 12/02/2021 - 13:50

    unless your in some special fancy industry or your HR are genuine good (profanity).

    simple answer is no.

  • lddv04 on 12/02/2021 - 13:52

    Remember, HR work for management and not the employees, despite what they may tell you.

  • stumo on 12/02/2021 - 14:58

    Nup. HR is there for the company and the conpany only.

  • Homr on 12/02/2021 - 15:00
    +1

    That being said, I don't want to officially make my intentions known to my managers or the business just yet. If I request confidentiality, is HR obliged to grant this or can they legally reveal my intentions to my manager?

    lol? HR has the obligation to tell the employer what you told them.

    and also HR is not there to give you advice on how to negotiate on payrises

  • JuryWheel on 12/02/2021 - 15:34

    Wonder what level of "salary renegotiation" the OP is looking for. The best method i have found is to find another job that pays better, then say you have been offered a better paying role somewhere else, but love working where you do, but would they be able to match it? You can make up the numbers if you want. However, they may well say no and then its up to you to decide if thats because they dont value you, or cant afford it.

  • VenusDeMilo on 12/02/2021 - 15:45

    Guess it depends on your HR manager and your relationship with them.

    in my previous role they were involved in personal development, goal setting, career progression etc. and as such I felt i had a really positive relationship with them.

    I felt comfortable in letting them know that I was looking for a job elsewhere any applying for roles as my current one didn't fit my long term career goals.

    They were completely understanding, accepting and asked if I wanted this to be communicated with my line manager. I did not have a good relationship with my line manager and HR notified them on my behalf that I was in the process of applying elsewhere and it made it easier for them to prepare potential candidates and begin interviews as soon as I gave my 4 weeks notice.

    in short HR can (emphasis on CAN) be helpful and not just evil people who wouldn't be concerned if you killed yourself like others are suggesting.

    • petry on 15/02/2021 - 21:55

      Maybe they were just good at their job, acted professionally including feigning interest, and you were naive and gullible - who knows? Doubt they cared because of what they are taught.

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