The cooling on the 15" MBPs was pretty bad. So on paper it should be faster than the i7, the poor thermal dynamics means it was always throttled. The end result you paid more for a "faster" processor that fails to deliver the performance you expect.
It wasn’t just “pretty bad” it was super hot CPU in an essentially closed box. It was so hot you have to put it in a freezer to cool it.
Yes, as said above, the throttling on this is a big problem. Running a quick benchmark is not indicative of CPU speed for anything that takes more than 10 seconds either. The throttling won’t fully kick in for about 30-60s, and then it just gets slower and slower to the point where it’s no faster than a quad-core. Don’t take my word for it - make use of apple’s 14day change-of-mind return policy and run your own speed tests on 2 diff machines.
Sure, but in this particular case you are getting the i9 at a low price! I would put up with a bit of throttling under extended load at this price. The CPU isn’t the problem with this machine.
It’s the butterfly keyboard.
thermal throttling
Thermal throttling is specifically dropping clock speeds below the "base clock".
But you can lose a lot of performance just by not being able to hit the "boost clock".
Oh it was on Google? Must be true then
I thought they changed the thermal paste etc on the 19 model so it doesn't have the same thermal throttling issue compared to the 18/hex core?
Just changing the thermal paste does not magically solve the problem
the 15" model loses its value because the 16" replaced it?
nah, the 15" will appreciate in value because the successor got released
/s
Lol
Link to the comparable refurbished item on Apple
https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/GMWWAX/A/refurbished-1…
just wondering how much is the rrp of it
$5299
People who are looking to buy this aren't in the same market for a Razer Blade
Way better than this ‘Pro’ ~ Apples and Oranges
The only part that is "way better" is the GPU…
I’ve got a 2080 gaming PC. But for my laptop I want a MacBook Pro, not a PC. (I’ve got a work PC laptop too). For everyday stuff Macs are way better. I’m seriously tempted with this deal, even though I already have a MacBook pro
And by everyday stuff you mean everything but games and some niche applications, potentially financial or research :)
I’m actually stuck between a razerblade stealth and a MacBook Pro. I’m still using the 2009 MacBook model and still runs great but a razerblade stealth 4K looks tempting… now I see this deal and it looks tempting too. How is this MacBook for gaming ? I know my old MacBook is crap for gaming for its keyboard layout.
I'm anti apple but I would not trust Razer's build quality or reliability
What did you regret about the initial purchase? That other deal is still a beefy build.
The lack of 32GB RAM. I like to use Chrome every once in a while ;-)
Can't be that bad, I regularly have 50 tabs open in Chrome on 8GB Macbook
Do you ever use safari? Over multiple MacBooks I’ve found chrome gets them running hot, and kills the battery much faster. Like a few hours difference.
It runs okay, but try regularly using safari for a while and see if you notice the same
@crentist: Last time I checked Safari was one of the most insecure browser. Maybe improved now. IDK.
@[Deactivated]: Insecure how? From hackers? Or the real problem, privacy pirates such as Google & Facebook, who have deep rooted tracking in Chrome, the 'secure' browser. Just use FireFox or Brave if you want secure.
@checkingthisout: Few years back when I checked, safari had more vulnerabilities against it (CVEs). That seemed to have been fixed now :) My bad, I hadnt checked.
Is it not upgradeable or did apple solder the ram in?
It is not upgradeable because apple soldered the ram in.
Thanks OP nice find!
Good deal. However the RRP and refurb prices aren't fair comparisons, the 16" improved value for SSD and particularly with the new stock Navi >> ~$500 CTO Vega. If you can stretch for the 16" model, it is significantly better in every component, and probably long-term resale. Have owned multiple variations of the last 3 models - Vega 20 was nice but thermals were stretched when paired with the 6 and 8 core i9s.
how do you find the keyboard on the 16?
i have a 2018 15" and its the worst keyboard ive used in my entire life to the point i want to dump it. just the worst feel, constant typos with repeated characters… the touchbar is the worst idea ever, but especially tthe non physical esc
I love the feel of the 16" keys personally.
Yes the butterfly mechanism keyboard is shockingly bad. Put me off MacBooks for life. Buy the 16" instead.
Agreed, this isn’t a bad price but the 16-inch model is such a substantial improvement in every way, it’s worth a few extra dollars.
Autolux, keyboard is substantially better. I had Apple replace my 2016 MBP 15 keyboard three times in less than three years.
Going for a 16" 32GB 8core 1TB will be a very significant increase in price ~5000$. It will be better no doubt, but not sure if 1700$ increase over the already expensive 3300 in price is worth it. Though I would anyday happily pick up a 16" 6 core 16GB 512GB over this model for 400 more for sure - if I had the intention to spend so much on a laptop in the first place.
Thank you, OP. My daughter was looking for a decent laptop to replace her current 15" MBP. I just emailed her now :D (Y)
should i fix or sell my macbook pro 15" retina from 2013? it heats up fast and has noise from fan?
How much can you sell it for ? Cause I have one as well and am quite interested to sell and get this
dunno. whatever the buyer can pay
Do you even sleep hahaha
@ilove: some of the older MBP won’t upgrade to Catalina as drivers for the graphics chip were not included.
so from a resale perspective the market might be limited,
@garage sale: That's another artificial Apple restriction, it can be worked-around via: http://dosdude1.com/catalina/
I just bought a 2013 15 MBP Retina …. $700 off eBay to give you a ballpark. 2.7g i7 / 16gb / 512 SSD.
I used my mbp 4 hours a day……. everyday for last 7 years….. how many battery cycles had it gone through?
It seems to be a common thing with MBPs in general, and you might be surprised how the new MPBs heat up fast and are noisy when on full throttle.
The big advantages of your MBP from 2013 are that it has multiple ports, it has MagSafe, it doesn't have touchbar, and that you already paid for it in 2013.
I would still avoid this and get the 16”. All the issues with MacBook Pro line were rectified in the 16” release.
Keyboard is better. Thermals are improved. There’s a headphone jack again.
Comparable MacBook Pro 16" (2.4Ghz Core i9, 1TB, 32GB RAM) is $5,299.00
This deal is 35% less, a very good deal.
I just wish my 2012 15" MBP would die already! 8-years is enough, honestly - it's disgusting.
You can sell it off eBay for a price
rather than wish it to die.
No they can’t. I understand. After eight years of Stirling service, you could never sell your MBP to someone else. It should just do the right thing and kill itself.
@entropysbane: Unless you plan on keeping it as a memory after it dies, it’s better to sell it knowing it might help/serve someone down the line.
I'm still running the first unibody MacBook from 2008 with a core2duo! Upgraded to an SSD and it works fine although it's now a desktop because the battery is dead. Trying to justify an upgrade haha
No problems with the keyboard either!
i have 2011, wont run catalina but has 500gb ssd and also a 1 tb hdd as i removed the cd rom ….
@garage sale: Try this workaround, it works well provided you don't have Radeon HD 5xxx or 6xxx series GPU
Brilliant! 12 years - great value for money there.
I have never had a Windows laptop last longer than 3-years in active use.
@malouphix: I have a 2010 Dell Core Duo laptop (4GB Ram 64GB SSD and nvidia GPU) that still works fine running latest win 10. But I rarely use it. My sister has a 1st gen i7 dell that she still uses for internet and kids education. My work 2013 laptop easily lasted 5 years before upgrading to MAC and I gave it off to a junior and he was happy with it. ANd it had the same performance of the MBP I upgraded to. Never had issues with any windows laptops. Although I agree Macs are really built well apart from the earlier keyboards.
nearly 8 years on my MB Air and it still runs like the day I bought it lol, no upgrade in sight for me :(
That’s the problem with Macbook, they bloody last too long. Lol
My late 2013 one's battery expanded to the point the track pad was messing up. Decided to get the 2019 6" but to disable the track pad for the time being but now it's fine and I'm questioning if i NEED the 2019… though I do WANT it.
Yep. This is a great deal but the keyboard and thermals on this make it not worth it. If you need a Macbook Pro for work (and lots of us do) then the 16" is absolutely worth it. I'm still on my pre-touchbar 15" and it just wont die, it's amazing how long Apple laptops last (if you get a decent one that doesn't have issues), kinda wish it would die so I can justify a 16".
Exactly this.
I do appreciate the price difference. But for me there’s always the chance that you will get a keyboard that will frustrate you the whole time you own this laptop, or the legs will be fried due to heat or the thermals will bottleneck your laptop.
As long as the purchaser is willing to risk these issues being present it’s a great issue. It’s not guaranteed to have those but it’s a risk.
For peace of mind the 16 inch is the better laptop. And would rather wait for the next gen to be released and get the 16 inch on sale.
If you can’t wait. This is still a bloody good laptop. It just has its issues.
Yeah, that's my issue. I'm on a mid 2014 Macbook Pro, (top of the line then, 15inch 16gb ram, 500ssd, biggest graphics card etc) and apple recently replaced my screen for free (coating was coming off). While they did it they replaced my cases, keyboard and mousepad without me asking, and I asked them to put in a new battery. So it was a completely refurbished laptop for $200. Even though this is the deal of the decade on a Macbook Pro, I can't come around to justifying it based on my basically physically brand new Macbook Pro, that isn't slow at all.
I think the 15" one linked here has a headphone jack. I know my 2019 15" MPB does.
Yes, it does. I'm using it right now.
I believe the entire Mac lineup still has a headphone jack.
Is Apple still a force or are they slowly being eaten by the competition?
They should shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.
- Michael Dell, 6/10/97
More than ever.
Very much in the game. Half the students at my uni (MQ) have macbooks.
And almost 80% of the people in my company. All the better for it.
Students at MQ definitely do not represent the overall market share trends of the wider computer market.
Apple's Mac marketshare each quarter has been in decline for a while and shipments in 2019 were consistently down compared to 2018 (faster than declines in the wider computer market, and even continuing to shrink in quarters where global computer shipments grew).
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/11/q2-2019-pc-shipments/
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/10/10/mac-shipments-q3-2019-g…
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/13/apple-mac-shipments-dow…
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/04/11/canalys-pc-shipments-q1…
The main issue is probably pricing which will likely become an even bigger sore point in this economy.
However, Apple as a company will remain strong for the foreseeable future as most of their revenue comes from the iPhone (which will likely continue to be a relatively strong performer) and they are increasing money earned from services
Still a thing. Especially in education. Kind of like … Texas Instruments? :D
How is the keyboard on these?
They add it at the factory
I was referring to the well documented issues Apple has been having with its keyboards on the MBP. You on the other hand are referring to humour. I say referring because you're not actually doing it.
You seem somewhat offended
My view of the keyboard:
I got this to replace a 2016 MBP. The first thing I did after opening the box was try out the keyboards in some comparison runs.
(Information relevant to the story - I use an Apple Magic Keyboard as my main keyboard. Laptop is connected to it via USB-C Dock with Monitors. Keyboard on laptop only used when travelling so it's important.. but not super important)
The 2016 is probably the worst keyboard I've ever used. The travel is too short. It sounds like it has a weird click. It feels like it has a weird click. I hate it. I've had 3 replaced (new battery for free!)
The 2019 is drastically improved. There is cushion in the keys when you press. The sound isn't anywhere near as offensive. Almost enjoyable.
The magic keyboard I use mostly (the same keyboard as on the 16") is a dreamboat and I wish this laptop had it…. but at this price I was willing to take that sacrifice.
@AaronR: You’re willing to take the keyboard sacrifice, but what about the thermal throttling, screen size, inferior speakers and significantly smaller battery? They all add up.
@eggboi: I can't work out if you're just trolling or not but hey, I'll bite.
The thermal throttling was fixed.
The screen size is only 0.6" difference. My wife agree's that 15.4" is big enough.
Speakers? It's a desktop replacement for me. I use separate speakers or a headset depending on the situation. When I'm on the road I use the sound provided in the board room I'm in.
Significantly smaller battery? 10.5hrs battery life vs 11hrs battery life? I doubt I will notice.
The keyboard is the real difference for me and I didn't really want to own a $2,000 keyboard.
@AaronR: Soz, not trolling. Fair call on the screen i guess. I didn’t really notice the increase of 0.6” at first, but then going back to my partner’s 15” seems a lot smaller now haha.
The speakers aren’t terrible on the 15, they’re just excellent on the 16!
Main two points are the thermals and battery. Not sure why you would only see such a tiny difference in batt life. It’s 74 watt-hours on the 15 vs 100watt-hours on the 16. And thermals may have been “fixed” to the point of not underclocking on the 15, but the new 16 allows for much higher sustained boost clock speeds with the same CPU (great for video editing and gaming, which you may not need). I’m also loving the 5500m GPU on the 16” - finally useable for 1080p gaming at max settings in boot camp. About equal to a GTX 970 but with 8gb vram
@eggboi: When you say the speakers on the MBP15 are inferior, you mean in comparison with the MBP16, not practically every other laptop of this size? Because they aren’t inferior at all in the broader sense, in fact are good, just fall short compared with the newest and greatest.
Edit: sorry needed to scroll down further to see your subsequent reply before commenting.
@AaronR: Which docking station do you use. I want to attach 2 27" Dell U2719DC monitors along with wireless keyboard and mouse to my MacBook Pro
Nice price, but to be honest its i9 processor isn't very powerful because of the cooling system.