Rear Seat Passengers Failed to Wear Seatbelts Even after Being Told to Wear It

Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:16
Last edited 23/04/2019 - 12:13

Unfortunate thing happened to a mate of mine who were taking his friends, from overseas, for a holiday to Blue MOuntain.

The happy trip was stopped by RBT and the cop saw the rear seat passengers did not wear their seatbelt (idiots!!)

My mate told the cop that he has told them to wear the seatbelts when they enter the car,which they did put it on..but apparently they ignored the advice along the trip and took it off again.
Cop did not care about that and fined him $1600 and suspension of his driving license…which is a bugger for him as he drives Uber for living!

Now, I know that it's the driver's responsibility to ensure their passengers wear their seatbelts, which in this case, my mate has done so.
My understanding, if the passengers have been reminded but still do not use it, shouldn't the cop fine the passengers not the driver?

I tried to find the regulation about this, but didn't find anything. Maybe I have been incorrectly informed about the existence of that rule..so spare me here.

Anyone has an opinion of this matter?

Automotive

Comments

            • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 16:44

              @DarwinBoy: Thanks :)

    • dcep on 23/04/2019 - 11:56
      +1

      any easter tax ?

      • Seraphin7 on 23/04/2019 - 14:46
        +6

        Public holiday surcharge - 12.5%

  • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 11:58
    +5

    As the driver was an Uber driver also, they really should know the law.

    • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 12:26
      +3

      many stupid Uber drivers too out there

      • Scrooge McDuck on 23/04/2019 - 13:51

        Normative not positive statement.

    • tranter on 23/04/2019 - 12:30

      Interesting, though, if the driver was on an official Uber trip they could legally carry infants in the back with no seat belt on (in the arms of an adult) and also children without a child restraint.

      Yet in this case 3 adults made the decision to remove their own seatbelts and now the driver has a large fine and loss of license.

      • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 12:39

        Interesting, though, if the driver was on an official Uber trip they could legally carry infants in the back with no seat belt on (in the arms of an adult) and also children without a child restraint.

        Really? I don't think this applies to Uber driver. This only applicable for Taxi drivers.

      • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 12:44

        if the driver was on an official Uber trip they could legally carry infants in the back with no seat belt on

        SOURCE!!! Pls, for my own amusement, what is the source that you have that an Uber driver can drive a vehicle with an unrestrained infant in the back. I would love to update my Road Rules knowledge with this tidbit…

        • tranter on 23/04/2019 - 12:47
          +1

          Just checked, not allowed in NSW but some other states for example WA and QLD, yes.

      • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 12:47
        +1

        A rider in Perth can catch an Uber or taxi with a child under 12 months old by holding them and from 1-7 years old, they may use a normal seat belt. But the same rider travelling in another state MUST have the under 6-month-old in an age-appropriate child seat, and from 1-7 in a taxi, they can ride in a normal adult seat, but not in rideshare depending on the state you are in.

        • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 12:55

          Where is the link to the government sanctioned rules for WA that state this is the case. In the general Australian Road Rules, this is not the case. I would be keen to see this information from government legislation in different states.

          Interestingly enough, the laws for "tow trucks" is an exemption…

          (4) Subrule (2) (b) does not apply to a passenger in a tow truck who has a child who is less than 1 year old seated in his or her lap

  • mini2 on 23/04/2019 - 12:25
    +1

    Did your mate got the suspension based on racking up one too many demerit points? Don't know if this will help:

    https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/demerits-offen…

    Sure an extra demerit point may help but if he's already clocked up a few before this seat belt incident then he's screwed. Don't know if uber drivers qualify as professional driver either.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 12:40
      +1

      There could be a possibility, i will try to find out more when he's calm down a bit.

      • mini2 on 26/04/2019 - 12:49
        +1

        That and get your mate to seek legal advice. He could opt to go to court but that could swing either way.

  • OzzyOzbourne on 23/04/2019 - 12:28
    +2

    It is very unfortunate, passengers are complete dicks for taking their belts off during the journey. Without the warning indications of modern vehicles, how can you check passengers have their belts on for every moment of the journey? Adults should be responsible for their own actions… But the law is the law… Fair or not.

  • Ughhh on 23/04/2019 - 12:30

    Drivers responsibility to make sure every passenger is wearing a seatbelt and understands the reasons (safety and financial) before starting the car. If they refuse, then either kick them out or cop a fine.

    • superuser on 23/04/2019 - 12:41
      +1

      When I was new here in Oz, my uncle always double check everyone has their seat belts on when he meets a RBT.

  • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 12:32

    My understanding, if the passengers have been reminded but still do not use it, shouldn't the cop fine the passengers not the driver?

    My biggest problem with traffic violation is the demerit points itself; IMO, demerit points value more than the fine itself!

    Even if the rear passengers cop the fine, driver still lose his/her 12 points which means licence gone.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 12:38

      Even if the rear passengers cop the fine, driver still lose his/her 12 points which means licence gone.

      True, this sucks much. I feel sorry for him for losing the license, and not feel sorry for the idiot friends.

  • knasty on 23/04/2019 - 12:39
    +2

    Why do people take their seatbelts off once on? I can vaguely understand not.putting it on at all, but once on why take it off? On a recent flight from Hong Kong to Japan I noticed roughly half the people took their seatbelt off and left it off after the seatbelt sign went off; I just don't get it.

    • redslert on 23/04/2019 - 12:45
      +3

      Many people don't understand inertia.

      • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 14:32

        Actually no one understands inertia or gravity. The best we can do is give good predictions of the behaviour.

    • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 12:49
      -5

      it's called freedom for some folks; they hate being restrained for 4 hours or so.

      • OzzyOzbourne on 23/04/2019 - 16:25
        +2

        Being enclosed in a small box is fine, but the extra removable strap that's going to save your life is just much.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 14:11
      +2

      Some people are idiots I suppose. They never realise how precious their life is until they experience a 'near death' event themselves.

    • belongsinforums on 23/04/2019 - 17:52
      +1

      Not required to wear a seatbelt in the back in some Asian countries. It's akin to people not wearing bike helmets

    • Wallyt99 on 23/04/2019 - 19:06
      +1

      Some Asian women feel that it might impact the long term shapeliness of their boobs.

      • kahn on 23/04/2019 - 21:51
        +1

        Maybe the OP misunderstood the cop when he told the passengers "you be fine, daayaam".

    • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 13:16
      +1

      What's the relevance here? There are plenty of countries where wearing seat belts is not mandatory or not seen as required. I travel to Singapore, Vietnam, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Macau a lot of the time, and none of these places require me to wear a seat belt. The drivers even give me weird looks when I put them on or ask where the buckle is, as some cars have them removed.

    • o53djz7qTPY4der on 23/04/2019 - 14:05

      Going by the language and username, I'd go with China.

      Either way, it's kind of a case of too-bad-too-sad.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 14:07
      +1

      Don't want to racial profile here

      says No one ever when they ask something like that

      • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 14:16
        +2

        Actually you can rule out some parts like Finland where tickets are proportional to income and can be $100,000 or more for the rich. You can happily racially profile Northern Europeans.

      • bargainhunter87 on 23/04/2019 - 14:18

        Your use of italics is horrendous.

        • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 14:19
          -1

          thanks for the compliment

      • idonotknowwhy on 23/04/2019 - 15:31
        +1

        "I'm not racist but… <racist question>"

        • No ONE on 23/04/2019 - 18:07
          -1

          I said I

          don't want to

          But I have to ask does not matter if it is racist. I was actually from one of this country, so I don't care how you put it. The reasoning behind my question was, Indian/Pakistani youth does not care about safety, may be too much Bollywood film and they might think not following rules in any country will make them cool.

    • jellykingdom on 23/04/2019 - 15:16
      +3

      I had to keep reminding my Indian relatives-in-law constantly. Ended up doing it Mining Site-style…i am not even turning on the engine until you put your seatbelts on

    • crentist on 23/04/2019 - 15:21

      Totally racial profiling though. Lax seatbelt use applies to many countries, and possibly anyone who doesn't use cars that much. I used to keep a very close eye on a couple of Aussie friends who didn't have their own licenses and caught taxis a lot, because they simply don't have the same discipline or reflexive use of seatbelts as people who regularly drive. As well as having slightly (profanity) personalities and tend to push things but are fun as long as I'm not in any way responsible for their actions.

      I could have believed OPs story was about teens who simply didn't want to follow the rules.

      • belongsinforums on 23/04/2019 - 19:54
        +1

        Couldn't convince my cousin in law to make her daughter wear a seatbelt. Ridiculous how little value life is given in China

        • crentist on 23/04/2019 - 20:41

          Here or there? My Chinese visitors have been good about it, just need the occasional reminder.
          Hope you weren't driving

          • belongsinforums on 23/04/2019 - 21:30
            +1

            @crentist: there. taxi. its just the lack of punishment that causes it. just as bad in japan when i was there

  • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 13:15
    +4

    This could be your friend's friend however she only cop $1,348 fine but did lose 28 demerit points; as reported in www.news.com.au; she was driving in Central Coast area and not Blue Mountain as suggested. however, the remainder of the scenarios fits well to your story.

    A mother has lost 28 demerit points in one go after she was caught talking on the phone while driving with three kids in the back seat. A driver on the NSW Central Coast has been pulled over and fined $1348 and lost 28 demerit points yesterday. The 24-year-old woman was pulled over in a Holden Captiva just after 5pm on the Pacific Highway for using her phone while driving. The mother of three had her children - aged five, three and one - all in the car’s back seat. Police noticed the children were in their seats however two of the children’s seat straps were not tightened correctly and none of the seats were anchored appropriately.

    In a statement NSW Police said: “The driver was issued four infringements - three notices for the children not being restrained as prescribed and the fourth for use of the mobile phone when not permitted.” “These carried a combined penalty of $1348 and due to double demerit points the driver accrued 28 demerit points. Children at risk notifications have been made to Family and Community Services.” This comes during the State’s Easter long weekend road safety operation. Traffic and Highway Patrol Commander Assistant Commissioner Michael Corboy said: “Even though there have been declines in the number of people detected drink driving and travelling above the speed limit, we are still hearing of examples such as the one from Ourimbah.” “Three people lost their lives on NSW roads across the Easter break. This is the same as last year.” “When you combine that with the fact 6000 people were detected travelling above the speed limit – those thoughts should be incentive enough to turn anyone off acting like an idiot on our roads.”

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 14:09
      +2

      wow that's even worse! Mom's surely shows 'proper' example to the kids there!!

      And no, that's not my mate's case haha.

      • bargainhunter87 on 23/04/2019 - 14:19
        +2

        Your case**

        • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 14:20
          -1

          thanks for the assumption

          • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 14:36
            -3

            @Taro Milk Tea: too coincidental not to be true; he (Michael Corboy) even used the same word as you did:
            “When you combine that with the fact 6000 people were detected travelling above the speed limit – those thoughts should be incentive enough to turn anyone off acting like an idiot on our roads.”

            and the cop saw the rear seat passengers did not wear their seatbelt (idiots!!)

    • Bid Sniper on 23/04/2019 - 14:35

      Wow just wow

  • DarthAntz on 23/04/2019 - 13:20
    +2

    This just in
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-23/nsw-police-give-women…

    Edit: just saw the post above

  • MrHyde on 23/04/2019 - 13:54
    +3

    My spouse just copped a $350 fine because a passenger was not wearing a seat belt. The passenger also got a $350 fine for not wearing a seatbelt.

    • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 14:43
      +1

      not sure whether i should + or - your post; i don't want to come across as being rude

    • whooah1979 on 23/04/2019 - 14:54
      +2

      Was your passenger an overseas visitor?

      • MrHyde on 23/04/2019 - 15:59
        +2

        They have been in Australia for over 2 years. I always make sure all passengers have their seat belts on before starting, but my wife didn't check.

  • Roman Sandstorm on 23/04/2019 - 14:20
    +5

    OK, let's assume for the sake of my argument that everything your friend told you was completely accurate.

    I think this would be an excellent opportunity to take the alleged offense to court. Given the size of the fine, and the potential impact of the demerit points.

    How I would approach this would be to:

    • get a statement from each of the passengers that they chose to remove their seat belts after the driver had ensured that they were wearing them prior to departure.
    • get a further statement that each passenger understands their responsibility, and will contribute their share of the fine.
    • request that the magistrate take these circumstances into account, emphasising that the driver did make due diligence, and that the passengers willfully, and without the driver's knowledge, all chose to remove their seat belts during transit. Pose the question as to how the driver could actually have ensured the passengers kept their seat belts on while concentrating on driving.
    • do not ask that the magistrate not fine the driver, but rather that the demerit points be reduced, explaining about the driver's need for the car for income.

    I see very few negatives with this approach. The driver accepts their responsibility. The passengers accept theirs. Leniency is only requested regarding the demerit points.

    Even in a total disaster scenario, the worst that would happen would be upholding of the current situation plus court costs. These costs are likely in the order of a very few hundred dollars at most, thus making the attempt a worthwhile one given the size of the fine. And a risk certainly worth taking.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 14:28

      thank you for the positive reply.

      I will surely try to pass this to my friend and let him decide if he wants to take this to court or not.
      The complicated part in here is his friends are tourist and they will leave soon.

      But yes, I think if his friends are sensible enough, they have to give their statement admitting its their own mistake so it can be used in the court.

    • Milk tea on 23/04/2019 - 21:15

      He will need money for the fine plus court fees but at the end the judge will rule in favour of the law since its pretty black and white in that the driver is responsible for all passengers. The driver could argue that he told them twice already but then the cops and judge will argue that he should have kicked them out or stop driving or maybe constantly do a rearview mirror check to ensure they do have their seatbelts on if they are the type of people to act like this.

  • Bid Sniper on 23/04/2019 - 14:32
    +3

    Lesson is, dont let idiots in your car.

    • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 14:42

      These are just kids, snipe … a tad too harsh.

      • Bid Sniper on 23/04/2019 - 14:49
        +4

        No mention of children by OP

        • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 14:49

          it was so obvious from the news reported

  • AlanHB on 23/04/2019 - 14:37

    Is your friend able to get a restricted licensed for use while driving uber? It's usually an option available for people who are suspended following a dui (using car for work).

  • ipiok on 23/04/2019 - 15:29
    -1

    "Now, I know that it's the driver's responsibility to ensure their passengers wear their seatbelts, which in this case, my mate has done so." no he hasn't.

  • chumlee on 23/04/2019 - 15:49
    +1

    Maybe the dingo ate the seatbelts

    At least it's more plausible than your theory

  • Ahbal on 23/04/2019 - 17:30
    +1

    Unfortunately thats the law. WHat I would do though, is make those "friends" pay the fine. Otherwise ditch them in the blue mountains :)

  • nodeahs on 23/04/2019 - 17:39
    +1

    In WA I know that the passenger will also get fined $550 if they are over 16 so I'm surprised that these passengers didn't get fined under some similar law in NSW. It's strange how much road rules change across states and territories.

  • ode1online on 23/04/2019 - 17:42
    +1

    Driver should have refused to drive.

  • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 17:49
    -1

    Talk about punitive, this is why I dislike Australia so much with it's short term minded thinking, it's beyond stupid - plus that money could've gone into the local economy. It would've been nothing to use discretion and issue a caution in this instance, especially given the fact they were tourists, but we have tall poppy syndrome here and can't be seen to be doing anyone any favours.

    I was in Taiwan recently, ran out of credit on my mrt card and couldn't pass through the gates. At the time I was thinking, if this happened in Australia, they'd take delight in giving me a fine, maybe even use capcicum spray on you for the fun of it and break your arm if you're extra lucky - of course, the guard in the MRT took delight in assisting me, pointing out the closet 711 and then directing me to some admin who also were only too happy to help out. The take away here is - I come home, and tell family and friends how helpful and friendly people in Taiwan, while OP's friends go home and tell 10 times as many people to avoid Australia because they'll grossly overreact and fine tourists for what is really a minor, non-violent crime.

    • o53djz7qTPY4der on 23/04/2019 - 18:28
      +5

      I agreed with you, up until

      a minor, non-violent crime

      Albeit non-violent, it is not minor. If they had been in an accident the expectation would be on the emergency services to provide care and put themselves in harms way to help or save their life. Not to mention, the cost of doing so. Whilst they may be expected to repay the hospital, what about the police/fire/paramedics? The dangers of not wearing a seat belt are well advertised, only an idiot would choose to not wear it.

      • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 18:39
        +1

        It is a minor, non-violent crime. The real crime is half of Australian tonight will go home and load up on junk food that promotes our ever growing obesity and heart disease epidemic - no fines for that though, you're free to harm yourself and the tax payer who funds the medical procedures to deal with these problems.

        Australia is a nation of utter gronks, you've only got to look at some of the snide comments in this thread to see what delight they take in someone getting a fine as if the notion of goodwill never occurred to them - and good will has value, that's why it's listed on a business statement.

        • o53djz7qTPY4der on 23/04/2019 - 18:44
          +1

          I disagree. Not wearing a seat belt is not minor. It's stupidity. It deserves a much higher fine than the ~$360, or whatever it is.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 18:47

            @o53djz7qTPY4der: Highly unlikely they would've been involved in an accident, and if they were, it's also highly unlikely to have resulted in serious injury. Go and compare the death rates of traffic accidents to something like diabetes, yet the reaction to each is polar opposite.

            How much do you think these types of fines on tourists cost the local economy? Sure, it's a one off, but Australia has a habit of doing these things and we're going into an economic down turn and tourism is also down - this, in a country that now has a service economy, it's stupidity. I won't be conned into getting overly dramatic about what if they had an accident, what if a policeman had to do x, y or z - they have one of the safest jobs in the world as it is.

            • Ughhh on 23/04/2019 - 18:55
              +1

              @[Deactivated]:

              Highly unlikely they would've been involved in an accident, and if they were, it's also highly unlikely to have resulted in serious injury.

              Have you ever had to brake suddenly? I guess not. Would you dare let your kid in the car without a seatbelt or baby seat?

              The day an accident happens, you'll never forgive yourself.

              Perhaps we should also change every public toilet in Australia to squat toilets to accommodate tourist?

              • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 19:33
                +2

                @Ughhh: I drive every day - of course I've had to slam on the breaks, many times, but the majority of accidents are at low speed, and death by car accident is so small so as not to even be worth discussing compared to things like heart disease.

                What's a squat toilet got to do with this anyway? You're not the first person to ask the race of the person, it'd only add to your glee of someone getting a huge fine for a minor infraction if they were Indian or Chinese, huh? If we're going to invite them here as guests, then we should extend them full hospitality for anyone non-violent mistakes they may make - they're not locals, they can't be expected to know all the rules, and at the end of the day it just makes good economic sense to do so - the risk in doing this is so minute but people like you overblow it because you take pleasure in the disparity of the fine to the crime.

                • o53djz7qTPY4der on 23/04/2019 - 19:35
                  +2

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  death by car accident is so small

                  BECAUSE WE WEAR SEATBELTS!

                • Ughhh on 23/04/2019 - 19:45

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  What's a squat toilet got to do with this anyway? You're not the first person to ask the race of the person, it'd only add to your glee of someone getting a huge fine for a minor infraction if they were Indian or Chinese, huh?

                  You need to either calm down or work on your comprehension, maybe both. I clearly was referring to accommodation, heck, I even said the word.

            • o53djz7qTPY4der on 23/04/2019 - 19:33

              @[Deactivated]: I've made no suggestion that traffic accidents are greater killers than anything else. Nor suggested they are more important.

              A downturn in tourism has nothing to do with policing.

              Diabetes has nothing to do with policing.

              The police do not have one of the safest jobs. Irrespective, even if it were a 'safe' job, have you not considered the emotional and mental toll of attending RTCs where there are severe injuries or fatalities? The effect that has on the individual attending and their immediate family?

              That effect, as well as the physical dangers, are all because some dumb tourists thought seatbelts were minor.

            • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 19:41

              @[Deactivated]: The better argument is that driving off the side of the road is the most likely accident in that area and they'd be dead anyway. It's still advisable to wear seatbelts when driving off cliffs. Fewer parts.

        • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 19:32

          nah, it's not a minor and never a minor crime. It's your life we are talking about here.

          As much as I feel bad for my friend who 'failed' to ensure the passengers wear seat belts, I don't feel sorry for his friends to be honest. Accidents do and can happen.

    • R-Man on 23/04/2019 - 19:50

      At the time I was thinking, if this happened in Australia, they'd take delight in giving me a fine, maybe even use capcicum spray on you for the fun of it and break your arm if you're extra lucky

      e d g y

    • Mrgreenz on 24/04/2019 - 00:20

      I know your exaggerating a little but if I understand your comment; you're saying you got to the security gate and you had insufficient funds on your card and so the barrier stayed down?

      Where in Australia do you imagine being fined for that?

  • bmerigan on 23/04/2019 - 18:21
    +1

    I thought adults were responsible for themselves. Driver is only responsible for children.

  • spriggan43 on 24/04/2019 - 00:05

    So if you ever get arrested and police are transporting you to the local station as a passenger, take your set belt off, police officer driving is now at fault, the system works.

    • Herbse on 24/04/2019 - 00:29
      +2

      https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2014/75…

      (3–2) The driver of a motor vehicle does not commit an offence under subrule (3) that arises from the refusal or failure of a passenger to wear a seatbelt properly fastened and adjusted if the passenger is in his or her lawful custody and is being transported by the driver

  • love2buy on 24/04/2019 - 07:28

    His points are still intact until he pays the fine. Theres still time to make some money to pay the fine.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join