Rear Seat Passengers Failed to Wear Seatbelts Even after Being Told to Wear It

Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:16
Last edited 23/04/2019 - 12:13

Unfortunate thing happened to a mate of mine who were taking his friends, from overseas, for a holiday to Blue MOuntain.

The happy trip was stopped by RBT and the cop saw the rear seat passengers did not wear their seatbelt (idiots!!)

My mate told the cop that he has told them to wear the seatbelts when they enter the car,which they did put it on..but apparently they ignored the advice along the trip and took it off again.
Cop did not care about that and fined him $1600 and suspension of his driving license…which is a bugger for him as he drives Uber for living!

Now, I know that it's the driver's responsibility to ensure their passengers wear their seatbelts, which in this case, my mate has done so.
My understanding, if the passengers have been reminded but still do not use it, shouldn't the cop fine the passengers not the driver?

I tried to find the regulation about this, but didn't find anything. Maybe I have been incorrectly informed about the existence of that rule..so spare me here.

Anyone has an opinion of this matter?

Automotive

Comments

  • elgrande on 23/04/2019 - 11:17
    +107

    Drivers responsible sorry.

    • deveshwar0 on 23/04/2019 - 11:47
      +3

      Good to know.
      Has this changed in recent years?
      In 2010, I was approached by a cop when I parked my van to make a delivery because my co-worker who was in the co-driver seat was not wearing a seatbelt. He claimed he had just removed after we came to a stop while the cop maintained that he wasn't wearing it.
      Anyhow, the cop only fined him and I was not even given a warning.
      Glad on it, otherwise I would've been pretty pissed as I would always assume that an adult who is born and bred here would know that they need to wear a seatbelt and I wouldn't bother checking everytime.

      • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:54

        He claimed he had just removed after we came to a stop while the cop maintained that he wasn't wearing it

        wait what? How could the police even managed to approach and fined you if your van has stopped? Was the vehicle still in motion?

        I'm curious to hear stories like this.. to what extent does the driver have to 'make sure' all adult passengers wear their seat belt? Is it in every red light stop they have to check all one by one?
        Again, it does not sound practical for adults to do this.

        • deveshwar0 on 23/04/2019 - 12:00

          We had just come to a stop at an angle parking on the road where we were traveling.
          The police car was behind us and the policeman got to us as I switched the engine off.

          • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 13:13
            +7

            @deveshwar0: I know it was 9 years ago… but for future reference…

            (2) A person in or on a motor vehicle is exempt from wearing a seatbelt if:
            * (a) the person is engaged in the door-to-door delivery or collection of goods, or in the collection of waste or garbage, and is required to get in or out of the vehicle, or on or off the vehicle, at frequent intervals, and
            * (b) the vehicle is not travelling over 25 kilometres per hour.

            • deveshwar0 on 23/04/2019 - 13:17

              @pegaxs: Thanks mate.
              Didn't know that too!
              Well I didn't worry about anything at the time because it didn't impact me at all.
              Guess I was lucky the policeman didn't fine me too.

            • cashie on 24/04/2019 - 19:34

              @pegaxs: How is the above relevant if the cop witnessed him not wearing his seatbelt whilst the car was in motion and travelling over 25 km/h?

      • cheesecactus on 24/04/2019 - 09:25

        Same thing happened to me about 5 years ago. Passenger was fined and I was let off the hook.

        Except my friend just didn't have his on, didn't try to claim he just took it off

    • tomleonhart on 25/04/2019 - 03:42
      +1

      That's what I always knew. Then I moved to New Zealand and my mate refused to wear seat belt when I asked him to. He said he will be fined not me.

      Look it up and turn out that was true. Hah!

  • Adz81 on 23/04/2019 - 11:18
    +71

    No. It's the driver's responsibility. That's it.
    Also, his friends are cockheads.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 23/04/2019 - 14:37
      +4

      The law would seem to be unfair in this case. It's not like cars come with bondage harnesses and shackles fitted to the passenger seats…

      Actually those could be quite useful. Ball gags too!

      • Seedy seed on 23/04/2019 - 16:50
        +7

        Mr garrisons car? 😂

        • kahn on 23/04/2019 - 19:41
          +1

          Jesus, jesus christ.

      • Love a bargain on 23/04/2019 - 23:47
        +1

        The driver can always pull up where it's safe to do so and refuse to continue driving until everyone has put their seatbelt on.

        • Stingyboi on 24/04/2019 - 17:44
          +1

          How can you constantly watch your passengers seat belts at the same time as watching the road? Maybe the 1 next to you sure, for the back seats though..

          • Ughhh on 24/04/2019 - 19:18

            @Stingyboi: How long does it take to look at your rear mirror? I mean, seat belts aren't shoe lace thin..

          • resubaehtgnolhcs on 24/04/2019 - 20:35
            +1

            @Stingyboi: most modern cars now tell you if a seat is occupied but seat belt is not engaged

            • PleasureMe on 24/04/2019 - 22:11
              +1

              @resubaehtgnolhcs: there are still thousands of cars that don't tell you. Especially for passengers in the rear seats

          • MrFrugalSpend on 24/04/2019 - 23:34
            +2

            @Stingyboi: I had to do this once. I was amazed that a passenger I was transporting was so reluctant to wear a seatbelt even though I had asked him to, and then argued about it. He couldn't give a good reason not to wear it other than "I just don't like them, its not comfortable"…. I wouldn't drive any further until he put it on.

            I don't even notice wearing a seatbelt most of the time.

            • Stingyboi on 25/04/2019 - 00:37

              @MrFrugalSpend: Some people could also just hold the strap over their shoulder so it's even harder to know if they have it on or not unless you keep checking the buckles, Not everyone drives brand new modern cars with warnings.

          • Love a bargain on 25/04/2019 - 13:51

            @Stingyboi: I have to admit I'm not one who'd normally keep checking whether my passengers still have their seatbelts on when I drive. However, if I'm transporting someone who refused/ were reluctant to put their seatbelts on to start off with, I'm sure I'd periodically check/ ask that they still had theirs on and definitely rechecked that if I am coming up to a RBT site (or police presence of any kind).

        • et tu brute on 01/05/2019 - 16:02

          …except passengers (some) will frequently unlatch their seatbelts quietly without the driver's knowledge… (modern cars do have alarms which fail from time to time). A driver can always argue in court.

          Also, the laws are NOT equal for all Australian states & territories.

          As a former taxi driver in Brisbane, Qld (I have since returned to NSW), I would always advise my passengers of the law requiring seat belt use, as a part of my duty of care to my passenger(s). If they refuse to comply, I would:
          1. Advise that the penalty for not wea3ring the seatbelt was the passenger (as it was in Qld at the time).
          2. I would advise my passenger that my request has been recorded (security button for mic & cameras)as back up evidence.
          3. I would advise my passenger that I would endeavour to be the best driver I can be, however I will not guarantee their safety if another vehicle would hit my vehicle and they were to become injured.
          4. They would have a difficult time proving my negligence if the police, insurance companies etc. accessed the recorded video/audio during their investigation.
          5. They would then be advised that the final decision would be theirs and their responsibility. At this point they complied, at least 99% of them anyway.

          … during these encounters, we had not left the curb :) They could gamble their risk elsewhere as far as I was concerned. The system was foolproof, just not idiot-proof.

          • MrFrugalSpend on 01/05/2019 - 21:16

            @et tu brute: I'd still be reluctant to transport someone without a seatbelt on even if I had evidence of warning them… reason being a loose passenger in a vehicle without a seatbelt on becomes a flying projectile that has increased risk of injuring others (as well as themselves even more severely!) … difficult choice when you want to get the fare and move on with your day rather than argue about it though

          • Taro Milk Tea on 03/05/2019 - 18:50

            @et tu brute: I'm keen to know, as a former taxi driver, if you are stopped by police and your passengers don't use the seatbelts, are you going to be fined? At least, what's the treatment for good taxi driver like you who reminds them all the time?

      • gromit on 24/04/2019 - 09:20
        +5

        I see nothing unfair here, except the person needs new friends. The drivers responsibility is to stop and refuse to transport the person any further till they put on their seatbelt.

      • Wardaddy on 25/04/2019 - 09:49
        +1

        Bring out the gimp.

  • jv on 23/04/2019 - 11:19
    +25

    Anyone has an opinion of this matter?

    Opinion doesn't matter, the law does.

    The driver is responsible.

  • shaybisc on 23/04/2019 - 11:20
    +39

    If the friends don't pay the fine they are not friends- lose them.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:23
      +16

      Well they are an idiot friends for sure, but fortunately they still have brain to pay the fine

      • Scrooge McDuck on 23/04/2019 - 13:41
        +20

        And compensation for his lost income and/or a chauffeur while his licence is suspended?

        And compensation for his increased insurance premiums and loss of 50 % licence fee discount?

        Some "friends" are not friends but liabilities. I hope he left them in the Blue Mountains.

    • Hybroid on 23/04/2019 - 11:32
      +8

      The police main priority is to fine fine and fine.

      Their main priority is to police the law instated by others and maintain order. Fines are a good behavioural deterrent and generate revenue to allow them to provide more services for the community without increasing taxes for everyone.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 23/04/2019 - 13:43
        +9

        and generate revenue to allow them to provide more services for the community

        Like issuing more fines.

      • freakatronic on 23/04/2019 - 16:22
        -3

        Garbage. The police shy away from enforcing laws that might endanger their personal safety, like stopping violent criminals who riot at public events. Police enthusiastically enforce the laws that they safely can - workers crossing the street on a red man, or people driving at 3km/h over the limit.

        • Hybroid on 23/04/2019 - 16:34
          +1

          Well, yes. That's why you have a chain of escalation starting at riot squad and going up to defence forces. The latter comment seems to imply that's a bad thing for society when it's actually a good benefit whether we like it or not.

          None of us have never driven above the speed limit at some point or another. I personally think speed limits are far too low for modern vehicles, but there's still consequences for breaking the laws we are bound to respect and abide by.

          • freakatronic on 23/04/2019 - 17:01
            -6

            @Hybroid: Police exist mostly to write fines. They will say it's for behaviour modification, but that's rubbish. It just an extra bad luck tax. You can kill someone in Australia and maybe not go to jail for it. If you do go to jail, that's tax-payer funded. You contributed nothing to society pre-conviction, and you'll continue leeching while imprisoned. However, if you work and make money then the police will be able to squeeze some blood from you when you let your guard down. So the worst offenders are also the most worthless. The lightest offenders are the most valuable. Police only look for the ones they can make money from - it's just a business.

            I don't disagree that menial laws like parking and speed limits need enforcement. I just disagree with the disproportionate policing of these laws.

    • YellowDieselGolf on 23/04/2019 - 19:09
      +2

      I’ll be the first one to point out the single focus of authorities toward speed cameras, but seat belts save lives.

      In South Australia, in 30% of road fatalities, the victims weren’t wearing seatbelts. That’s a staggering number given how few people don’t buckle up.

      https://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/towardszerotogether/Safer_behavio…

  • sss333 on 23/04/2019 - 11:23
    +4

    What Happens if a Passenger Doesn’t Wear a Seatbelt in NSW?

    (3) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus or taxi) that is moving, or that is stationary but not parked, must ensure that each passenger in or on the vehicle who is 16 years old or older complies with subrule (2), unless the passenger is exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267.

    Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

    https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2014/75…

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:28
      +6

      Passengers Who are at Least 16-Years of Age
      Unless exempt from wearing a seatbelt under rule 267, a passenger who is at least 16-years-of-age in a motor vehicle, which is either moving or stationary but not parked, must wear a properly fastened and adjusted seatbelt, occupy a position that’s fitted with an approved seatbelt and must not occupy the same seating position as any other passenger under rule 265(1) of the Road Rules 2014.
      Failure for a passenger of the vehicle to comply with this rule will leave him/her to face a penalty of up to a $2,200 fine if the matter is court elected.
      However, if the driver of the motor vehicle fails to ensure that each of its passengers (who are at least 16-years old) comply with this rule, the driver can also face a penalty of up to $2,200 fine if the matter end up going to court (Rule 265(3) Road Rules). This does not apply to a taxi or bus.

      Thanks for the link.

      Now I'm curious. It does say the passenger can get a penalty if they fail to obey this rule.
      And it also says that IF the driver of the vehicle Fails to ensure this, they will also get fined?
      However, in this case, my mate has ensured they wear their seatbelts when they enter the car, but suddenly they didn't wear it anymore! how could the driver always pay attention to this when they should really focus on the road??

        • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 12:21
          +23

          such as seatbelt warning light that shines in RED?

          You do aware some car makes don't even have this indicator (passenger seat belt) light up in the dashboard ?

          • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 13:04
            +13

            @tempura: added to that, some cars only make it for the front seats and not the rear…

          • navarch on 24/04/2019 - 10:51
            +1

            @tempura: May be he needs to buy a 'high yield car' which has those sensors.

      • Love a bargain on 23/04/2019 - 23:50
        +1

        Your mate only asked/ reminded his friend to, he didn't ensure the said friend did.

      • MrBear on 24/04/2019 - 09:12

        or taxi

        Get your mate to claim he was driving an Uber at the time. Uber almost equals a taxi…

        • Lord Fart Bucket on 24/04/2019 - 19:00

          Get your mate to claim he was driving an Uber at the time

          Yeah, there's no way that making a false statement isn't going to make this go away…

  • xuqi on 23/04/2019 - 11:24
    +1

    Driver is ultimately responsible so your friend is screwed.

  • crentist on 23/04/2019 - 11:28
    +5

    Driver's responsibility. But friends are massive dicks.

    I don't drive if passengers don't have belts on (or I remind them very shortly after moving). I sometimes get visitors from overseas who never wear belts, and they still understand to put a belt on when asked. Sometimes the mother-in-law can be forgetful, but I only have to quietly say it for the rest of the family to get annoyed at her on my behalf.

    I'd be demanding serious reparations from those friends

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:31
      +3

      True. But in this case, his friends must have pulled out their seat belts along the way because he has ensured all of them wear it when they entered the car.

      I feel that it's really hard to always pay attention (as a driver) that all passengers wear the seatbelt where you should really focus on the road. It's tough enough! The road is full of 'amazing' drivers.

      • bargainhunter87 on 23/04/2019 - 11:40
        -5

        It wouldn't really require him to "always pay attention". Its a simple look back, if they have it on you drive. If they don't, you pull over and demand they put their seatbelt on.

        I don't really feel for people getting fined for seatbelt related infringements (sorry if that sounds harsh). It is arguably the least onerous thing you can do to stay safe.

        But I do agree - friends are terribe if they didn't listen. Law states driver is responsible. Practically - if you're the one not wearing it - you should pay!

        • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:43
          +2

          Well, first of all, thanks for the negs people lol.

          It wouldn't really require him to "always pay attention". Its a simple look back, if they have it on you drive. If they don't, you pull over and demand they put their seatbelt on.

          I suppose this is not really practical in the highway/motorway.
          But anyway, your point is correct. I think it's just a bad luck for him in this case.

          • crentist on 23/04/2019 - 15:05

            @Taro Milk Tea: I think the negs were for this:

            It's tough enough! The road is full of 'amazing' drivers.

            Driving isn't that difficult and can endanger people, so you won't get sympathy for wanting it to take it easy, or acting like something as simple as seatbelt checking is for the showoffs.

        • mrvaluepack on 24/04/2019 - 15:31

          Thats the problem with Australia's strict road rules. You forcing the driver's attention on other stuff where the main focus should be to concentrate on actually DRIVING the vehicle.

          Rules are rules but i think in this case the cop was being a bit pedantic.

          • et tu brute on 01/05/2019 - 16:09

            @mrvaluepack: True. However the driver should have asked the cop to read out the reason for the breach, the penalties involved and perhaps had the initiative to ask the passengers whether the driver had asked for them to put the seatbelts on, and then ask them why they took them off, before making a decision to penalise the driver.

      • crentist on 23/04/2019 - 11:59

        Your original post made it sound like they ignored him and never put it on in the first place.

        Anyway, it's more to do with awareness of belts, than difficulty paying attention. It's easy enough to check passenger belts as part of regular rear view scanning, but I'm sure many drivers don't think about belts at all.
        Difficulty paying attention might actually be a worse excuse than absent-mindedness. Because everyone will overlook stuff all the time, but hopefully out of some sort of prioritization of focus, rather than being overwhelmed by the road.

        And the RBT is enough of a warning for a final check, if your friend had been thinking about it at all. I'm sure they will be from now on though.

        • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 12:12
          +1

          My bad, they actually did put their seat belt initially after being told. That is why he mentioned to the police he did make sure all the passengers wear their seat belts

          • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 12:24

            @Taro Milk Tea: During the altercation between your friend and the cop, did any of the rear passengers come to defend the driver? if so, what did the police say?

            • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 12:37
              +1

              @tempura: Not sure, but don't think passengers said anything as english is not really their 1st language.

      • Herbse on 24/04/2019 - 00:38
        +1

        Did the passengers get told they would get fined as well? Everything I've read says they should.

        • alikazi on 25/04/2019 - 13:33

          Normally the passengers only get fined if they are passengers of a taxi including uber. I've heard stories from friends of this happening to their friends. Also when I asked, some uber drivers confirmed this to me. In other cases it seems the driver is fined.

  • Archi on 23/04/2019 - 11:43
    +3

    Just curious.. what car was it .

  • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 11:47
    +4

    fined him $1600 and suspension of his driving license

    Didn't realise the fine was that high!

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:48
      +1

      Its for 3 passengers. so yeah..

      • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 12:08
        +1

        SEAT BELTS
        Drive with 3 unrestrained passengers - $1085 - 6 points

        Double demerits = 12, loss of license. Still nowhere near $1,600 fine.

        • superuser on 23/04/2019 - 12:35

          I think max demerits are 13??

          • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 13:02

            @superuser: 13 accumulated points will see you cop a suspension on an unrestricted license. 14 for professional drivers.

            • D6C1 on 23/04/2019 - 13:22

              @pegaxs: So he should be okay. Would Ubers be considered as professional drivers?

  • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 11:47
    +1

    Cop did not care about that and fined him $1600

    Yeah, nah… Not buying it…

    Seatbelt offences, demerits and fines

    For 4 people unrestrained, it is only $1,422. So, Im curious as to where this "$1,600" number comes from… At worst it would be $337.

    • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 11:49
      +9

      lol im not here to argue with the amount of the fine. It's what he told me and I even shocked when I heard it.

      • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 11:59
        +8

        Your friend is full of shit and is telling stories… There is no ticket worth $1,600 for no seat belt, and at worst, if it was on a double demerit weekend, then the demerit points are between 3 and 6 (6 and 12 doubled.) The other thing is, that the passenger, if over 16, would also have received a ticket.

        Now, was the person your "friend" had in the vehicle under or over 16 years of age? If over 16, there are different rules that apply than is the passenger was under 16.

        Aus Road Rule 265: (Passenger over 16 years of age)

        (1) A passenger in or on a motor vehicle that is moving, or that is stationary but not parked, must comply with subrule (2) if he or she:
        (a) is 16 years old or older

        The rule then goes on to say…

        (3) The driver of a motor vehicle (except a bus or taxi) that is moving, or that is stationary but not parked, must ensure that each passenger in or on the vehicle who is 16 years old or older complies with subrule (2)

        So, your friend should suck up the ticket and pay it based on A) not making sure people have their seatbelts on, and B) for bullshitting about severity of the ticket.

        My maths is 6 points (double 3 normal demerits) and a $337 fine. So, if 6 points were enough to kill their license, I suggest your friend losing their license will serve as a good incentive to drive a little better upon their license being returned.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 12:08
          +1

          Times 3 passengers.

          • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 12:11
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: Yeah, just refreshed this screen to see the buried comment about it being 3 passengers

            That's still only $1,085 and 12 points. It's loss of license, sure. But it's not $1,600 unless the police tacked on some other driving offences to go with it.

            There is something missing from this story, and I am sure over the course of this thread, it will come out eventually.

            • resubaehtgnolhcs on 24/04/2019 - 20:47

              @pegaxs: It's interesting that driving with 3 unrestrained passengers the demerit is still 6 points - the same as driving with 2 unrestrained passengers. It's just the fine that increases.

              • pegaxs on 24/04/2019 - 22:38

                @resubaehtgnolhcs: I think it’s hilarious that it says “4 or more” and that’s still only worth 6 points. You could have a people mover with up to 8 people unrestrained and it’s still the same demerits as 2 unrestrained passengers… :D

        • Taro Milk Tea on 23/04/2019 - 12:09
          -2

          No need for an italic

          It was during the long weekend, so yes he got 12 demerit points taken from him.

          The passengers did not get any tickets at all, maybe it's because they are tourists? again, I am not sure about this. As I previously mentioned, passengers should also get the fines.

          Obviously the my friend was already in shock when he get the fine and suspension, so I didn't bother him that much asking the details.
          However, this is a good info from you, thanks for this. I will let him know about the weird amount of fine he got.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 12:11

            @Taro Milk Tea: I think the cop will judge if they are a flight risk. Did cops speak to the passengers/get ID?

          • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 12:19
            +6

            @Taro Milk Tea: I would certainly be asking the arsehole overseas friends to be chipping in for the fine, regardless of how much it was. Your friend did have a duty of care to make sure everyone was belted up before driving. It's also easy enough to stop a car mid drive if (fropanity) knuckles want to remove their belts.

            Im not doubting that the fine was high if it was three people without belts, but there is something else added onto this ticket that they aren't telling you about.

            What they need to do is seek the advice of a traffic lawyer, a real one, not an OzBargain armchair one. They need to plead their case to a magistrate and explain the circumstances in court to have any hope, as I dont even think a letter of appeal would work in this case.

            For the record, I still think your friend is an absolute idiot for driving a vehicle while other idiots didn't have their seat belts on.

            • tempura on 23/04/2019 - 12:28
              +3

              @pegaxs: some folks do like to make things blown out of proportion for notorious bad-ass purposes

              • pegaxs on 23/04/2019 - 12:42
                +4

                @tempura: What?? On this forum?? No… :D

                What I find is that people tend to "omit" the relevant parts of the story…

                • rompastompa on 23/04/2019 - 13:29
                  +1

                  @pegaxs: Considering it is second hand, as OP was not there, no parts of the story are evidently factual besides the fact that OP has a friend that mentioned said story.

          • resubaehtgnolhcs on 24/04/2019 - 20:49

            @Taro Milk Tea: dupe

    • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 11:54
      +1

      At worst it would be $337

      each.

      Which works out less than $1422

      • DarwinBoy on 23/04/2019 - 16:34

        is there a victims of crime levy? not sure if that is an NT thing or Australia wide but all our fines have an included levy attached.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/04/2019 - 16:36

          I wouldn't have a clue. I've never been fined. Would love to know though.

          • DarwinBoy on 23/04/2019 - 16:43

            @[Deactivated]: Quick google shows most states have some form of levy attached to fines which may explain the difference between the fines and the total spoken about by the driver.

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