[Advice Needed] How to Encourage Kids to Study! (Grade 6)

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  slowedawg on 01/02/2019 - 22:29

  +23

  I think you need to think about what he wants, as a kid, and what his goals are. Why doesn't he want to study? Does he want to play games and talk to his friends? Does he want to be a part of a career that doesn't necessarily require a ton of study?

  Realistically, you need to figure out the reason behind him NOT wanting to study.

  If he's in Grade 6, and he's only just started, study is not normally part of a primary school kids life. They learn at school, but the big thing for them is developing social skills, resilience, and obviously learning the things they need to progress in to high school.

  He might not care about being in a high achiever/accelerated class. He might even see it as a negative - because it's more pressure, because they're 'nerds', so you need to think about who your kid is a little more, and what he wants, and then figure out how to motivate him.

  If you told me when I was 11-12 that I needed to spend my weekends studying and preparing for a private school or accelerated class test, I would have hated it. I learnt at school, I got into accelerated classes without the extra study, as I enjoyed learning, not because I was forced to learn.

  Think about what your son wants more. Find out his motivations. What does he enjoy? What can he see himself doing for a job in the future? What things sound interesting him to work as? Then - get him to visit those places, get into contact with people in the industry, see if it's something he'd want to do.

  • 

    Zenyatta on 05/02/2019 - 09:47

    +1

    If you told me when I was 11-12 that I needed to spend my weekends studying and preparing for a private school or accelerated class test, I would have hated it. I learnt at school, I got into accelerated classes without the extra study, as I enjoyed learning, not because I was forced to learn.

    Yes this. There are so many important skills to learn at this age, and they don't involve a paper, pen, or computer screen. OP, focus on finding out what your child's interests are and fostering those. Don't force him to do things he isn't interested in.

    I bombed my HSC. I wasn't interested. In my mid 20s I decided I wanted to do a science degree. Did the necessary courses pre-uni and graduated with an advanced degree and with distinction. But I did it of my own intrinsic motivation, and for that reason, I loved it.

    Edit: reading your other comments, I agree that it sounds like he's having too much screen time. Not suggesting you should leave him to it. Maybe you can find ways to do things together away from the computer?

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  Quantumcat on 01/02/2019 - 22:30

  +10

  Forcing your kid to study will just make them more reluctant. True motivation comes from within. Leave your kid to it, if they don't feel the need to study hard don't worry about it, as long as they aren't falling behind. Putting pressure on them will make everything worse.

  Also, even if you successfully get them to study for the test and they get into the gifted program or whatever it is you're trying to do - when they actually start the program they'll be at the bottom and miserable because it isn't their natural level (natural level involves how hard they work naturally with no outside prompting as well as intrinsic talent).

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    mbck on 01/02/2019 - 23:00

    +14

    Hmmm you get better by practising. I don't agree with what you're saying. Basically if you're no naturally good, don't try as you'll get stressed. Wut.

    I think the first 7 years of a kid life is important. I find parents who've set things up at those ages, have kids that are easier to work with. Trying to change them when they're older is not impossible, but harder.

    Good luck op

    • 

      Quantumcat on 01/02/2019 - 23:38

      +3

      Forcing kids to work will just result in kids that hate working, and will work less than they would if left alone. You will develop a child that will only work when forced to never of their own volition. They'll associate studying with punishment and unhappiness. If you let them work for their own reasons (they want to be top of the class or get into some program or want to make their teacher or parent proud or just enjoy learning) then they will do it and you won't be constantly bribing or punishing your kid into doing homework each afternoon.

      • 

        mbck on 01/02/2019 - 23:54

        +11

        I think it's dangerous to have that mind set. All kids are different. I was brought up that way and I'm fine. I wouldn't be where I am if I wasn't pushed.

        Im not saying we should do it in a specific way, but as a parent it's up to you to see what your child would best respond to. But if since young the kid was given freedom, it's hard for them to suddenly be a different kid.

        Good luck

        • 

          Quantumcat on 02/02/2019 - 08:38

          +4

          @mbck: You can think that if you want but I've been a teaching assistant, French teacher, and maths tutor, plus been a kid myself. I have an idea how kids' minds operate.

          It is the same as paying a kid to do chores. They might do them while you're paying, but they'll never develop the mind set that you do chores to help the family and the reward is feeling good. If you force a kid to study they might study while you're making them but they haven't learned any skills to do it with no pushing. They've learned that study is something you do to please other people and there's never a reason to want to do it - they study less. That's probably part of why public school students do better at uni compared to private school students (the private school students probably had a greater percentage of their parents pushing them).

          See Halsmich and djkelly69's answers

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            Gotchas on 02/02/2019 - 08:44

            -2

            @Quantumcat: Maybe becuse private school kids doing more challenging degrees

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              Quantumcat on 02/02/2019 - 08:45

              @Gotchas: No - the study compared students doing the same degrees. Students with the same entrance scores from public school did better than students from private schools.
              http://theconversation.com/state-school-kids-do-better-at-un…

              And from https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2014/03/31/univers… (the bold section especially):

              An axiom in education is that assessment drives learning. If you don’t assess it then students don’t learn it, a tendency that is likely to be heightened in a school dependant on parental support. The result may be strategic learners who do well in school exams but find the inquiry-led approach favoured by many universities a challenge.
              Of course state schools are also geared towards exam results; the difference is they lack the resources to be as effective as their private counterparts. Ironically, this very deficiency could benefit their students in the next phase of education: the comparative lack of pressure has given them the freedom to pursue what interests them and so become passionate about learning.

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                apenman on 04/02/2019 - 11:25

                @Quantumcat:

                @Peanut money: No - the study compared students doing the same degrees. Students with the same entrance scores from public school did better than students from private schools.

                The study presupposes that kids who are pushed and kids at public school will actually get the same entrance grades for university. I suggest that is a bad assumption. The kids at private school with the same ability as kids at public school, get better grades, and will have a higher entrance score, and so the comparison done in the linked article is not accurate!

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                  Quantumcat on 04/02/2019 - 12:26

                  @apenman: That's kind of exactly the point

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                greatlamp on 04/02/2019 - 20:42

                @Quantumcat: The kids in the top level engineering class who come from public schools with little resources are likely to be brilliant, they had to be to overcome their disadvantage.

                They will however be a minority.

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                irony on 05/02/2019 - 18:36

                @Quantumcat: "Students with the same entrance scores from public school did better than students from private schools."

                I think the operative part is "with the same entrance scores", most good private schools have a higher average entrance mark, so they are comparing different points in the curve.
                Designing study parameters can generally get the result you desire.

          • 

            mbck on 02/02/2019 - 09:24

            +1

            @Quantumcat: Well that's what I'm saying. You mentioned to study is to please. But if you had set up a routine that to study and gain knowledge itself is the reward then it's a different story.

            If your kid was not, then sure that's the path they've gone to as you've described.

            In saying that, also to get back to op and not about private vs state schools, sure let your kid find and discover what they're interested. But you've got to teach them that adversity brings growth. (within limits). Simply saying they're not a natural so give up isn't right. They can do their best and find at the end, they have they tried and have learnt from the experience.

            I do agree pushing for the sake of pushing in desperation will not work.

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              blitzzbargain on 02/02/2019 - 13:36

              @mbck: I agree with you that pushing for the sake of pushing in desperation will not work, but I am not sure what I need to do. Firstly it is seldom, he would study by his own conscience. We need to remind him to study most of the time. If we let him playing games for hours and hours, he would do it. His hobby and interest is playing games and watching tv and youtube, which I think it is not healthy.

              No interest in music nor sport maybe a bit of basketball.

              Basically I dont know his hobby except games, tv, youtube.

              If I let him gat away with always playing games, youtube, tv then I am not sure what he will be heading in his study.

              Don't get me wrong, as I have mentioned he is not behind, he is actually little bit above average, but without pushing I dont think he would do well in his study.

              I like him to go university eventually to study a course that he likes, but again you need to have enough score for your course of choice.

              Should I let him do whatever he likes online games, tv, youtube etc, and just hoping by spending more time with what he likes, he can be successful?
              Or should I keep pushing for him to study and do other extra curricular activities?

              • 

                fossilfuel on 02/02/2019 - 19:45

                @blitzzbargain:

                Should I let him do whatever he likes online games, tv, youtube etc, and just hoping by spending more time with what he likes, he can be successful?

                No as that's a permissive parenting style. It is better to adopt an authoritative/supportive style as children tend to achieve better outcomes in the future. Have a look at this guide. There are very helpful strategies towards the bottom of the page.

                Or should I keep pushing for him to study and do other extra curricular activities?

                From the guide above, it's better if you inspire achievement rather than pushing for it. Have a look at what games he likes playing, what he watches on TV and youtube. You might pick up on certain themes that he enjoys and from there, encourage him to pursue some hobbies within that domain. e.g if he likes playing minecraft, then introduce him to hobbies where he's able to build stuff (arts and craft).

                If you want to encourage your son to participate in extra curricular activities next year, go to secondary school open days and see what is on offer. Secondary schools have larger variety of activities including leadership, sport, music, art, volunteering, cooking, gardening etc.

                I bought him some online materials for him to do some practice questions and we plan to send him for private tuition, especially for the exam preparation.
                The issue I have is that I don't think he has the motivation to study hard, I keep telling him it is important for him, but I don't think he realises it. He does not have enough motivation to study.
                As I always say to him, you need to try your best, the result is not important but your effort and determination that count.

                Make time to sit down with your son and go through the work with him. No excuses like "I'm tired from work" or "I don't understand the concepts". Even if you can scrape 10-15 minutes a night is great. Even if you don't understand the concepts, going through the theory with your son so you both try to understand it is great.
                Telling him that it's important to study has minimal effect, you need to show him why it's important and be that active role model.

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                Xastros on 03/02/2019 - 23:42

                @blitzzbargain: A bit off topic but why is music or sport more valuable of a hobby than games or youtube? None of the above are a very likely to result in a stable career but somehow music is viewed as a great pursuit but gaming is looked down upon.

                Is your child likely to become a professional gamer or streamer? Unlikely. Are they likely to become a concert pianist if they learn the piano? Equally unlikely. Is he going to be in the NBA if he puts all his efforts into basketball? Also unlikely.

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                  orangetrain on 04/02/2019 - 08:16

                  @Xastros: Playing sports is for social and fitness. It's hard to get latter from games. As for social, it depends how local those online friends are.

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                    Xastros on 05/02/2019 - 01:41

                    @orangetrain: OK I'll give you the sports one perhaps. However, there are certain activities considered productive or good vs others viewed as bad or a waste of time.

                    E.g. Playing the piano is good. Playing computer games is bad. Both are equally useless from a life advancement perspective (outside of the few that manage to make a career out of it). Why is one viewed as highly desireable and the other frowned upon?

                    Reading novels is considered a good thing. Watching Netflix isn't. Both are just consuming someone else's creative work (being told a story). Why is reading considered to advance your knowledge but watching a tv show isn't? Assuming both are ficiton.

      • 

        k15866 on 04/02/2019 - 17:30

        I disagree, my life from K-12 from 3pm to 7pm and possibly later was studying at home. Sooner or later it becomes a fact of life that one studies. Eventually you realise, knowledge is important and you also learn that doing something you don't like can benefit you. Whilst I was never told this, I now realise that a good incentive would have been to study hard in school so that once you hit uni, you can then choose to study something you like.

        Also because studying was just routine, it was not a punishment. Not getting dinner when you wanted / not being able to play computer games etc was definitely the memorable punishment. Also if it is routine, there is no need to somehow create a link between hobbies and study which can be challenging.

        EDIT: also Whilst it has been a while since I was in school, I feel like high school followed the syllabus fairly strictly and so whilst you could find gaming related things to teach him about maths / history / sciences, they may not give him the answer to what the syllabus (inevitably the test) requires. And as concepts in maths / science become more complex, they become harder for a parent to apply to hobbies unless you have specific training in that area. Having said that, my personal experience is that it is very much possible for others to 'switch on' in Yrs 11 and 12 and still do well, if not better than the dude who went home everyday and studied from K-12. I doubt I would have done as well had I tried to 'switch on'

  • 

    trapper on 04/02/2019 - 13:23

    +2

    He's asking how to motivate his kid, nothing to do with forcing him.

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  Fier2 on 01/02/2019 - 22:36

  +1

  You re basically putting off your kid from studying . If you want to see him achieving a "better path" , start by talking to him. Listenning his expectations and what he wish to be or do later. Of course, he will make some mistake, take the wrong path and that's why he got parents to be here for him. It doesn't matter which school he goes because you can be in a crap school and have amazing teachers and support. Or you can be in A good school and having crap teachers and support. The day you gonna start to talk and listen him will be the day you will see improvment in his learning.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 02/02/2019 - 13:43

    At the moment, he likes to play online games, youtube and tv. I don't know his hobbies beside those.
    I am not sure how play games or other online entertainmemt can help him ditectly with his study.
    He is going to a secondary school I reckon he will have more homework to do.
    He is definitely going to a public school but not sure whether he can be in high achíever/eccelerated class, I am very much doubtful.

    • 

      Kangal on 03/02/2019 - 12:45

      +1

      It's like a lot of things in life, either you spend the money and get someone else to do it, or you invest in your own time and effort and get things done.

      For somethings, its better for you to do, like changing a lightbulb.
      For other things its best to have someone of the profession, like surgery.
      I'm sure you can find examples where someone changing a lightbulb resulted in something horrible, or nightmare surgery cases, or people who operated on themselves with great results. So there is randomness, but you should know the odds and play the smart game.

      For kids, I think if you aren't a "good person", then perhaps the better parenting method would be to let the society, school, and television do the upbringing. However, in most cases, people are decent and equiped with enough intelligence and empathy to actually do a better job.

      So think of it this way, you are not going to find a better job to get your child a better school/parenting. Instead, you are going to funnel that time and effort from that promotion/second job directly to your child. You can get a more customised approach, and help teach them to be selfish and empathetic, to be leaders and soldiers, to be creative and predictable, but the gist is it depends on you and your investment of time and effort.

    • 

      Jolakot on 03/02/2019 - 22:18

      +1

      I was the same way when I was his age, lots of online games, lots of time 'wasted' on the internet. My grades were pretty bad, and I skipped a lot of classes, to the point where I figured out how to 'break' their attendance system (If I missed first it would count me as late, if I missed last it would count me as an early leaver, but it never checked the middle classes, so I could just head out for most of the day and then come back without penalty).

      That was how I got introduced to programming; I believe it was creating a Minecraft mod to circumvent some visual effect that I didn't like. From that I learnt how classes worked, how inheritance worked, how the core logic is formed, and I felt absolutely awesome after it compiled and the effect was gone. That lead me to getting dux in my software development class in VCE, which lead to a degree in computer science, which lead to my current career.

      I'm glad my parents did not interfere or push, they easily could have and honestly the amount of time I spent sitting down in front of a screen in my teens was probably unhealthy, but I'm glad they didn't.

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  [Deactivated] on 01/02/2019 - 22:40

  My advice is you, the parent need to learn how to program a computer. Java is free and sufficient and a $7 Raspberry Pi is enough for a lot of things, so it's not about money. Most maths can be made quite pretty and colorful and fun if you can program. Electronics have never been so cheap or powerful, so that is also an option. Microcontroller programming used to cost $1500+ for software on $4000 computers back around 2000 compared to $5 these days on $300 computers.

  Don't forget to neg my inferiority complex straw poll.

  • 

    Clear on 02/02/2019 - 09:06

    +1

    Probably easier for the kids to learn than the adults. I've helped teach a lot of kids using Pi, Arduino etc. and most of the time it was way beyond the parents.

    • 

      Xastros on 03/02/2019 - 23:51

      It is easier for kids but not beyond parents if they are willing to learn. It is all about open mindedness. I have met 80 year old business owners who are implementing ecommerce platforms for their businesses and they understand the importance of this in the current technological world as well as being able to personally use and understand the back end of these systems.

      I have also met 60 year olds who don't know how to message on a mobile phone and think it is too hard. It is not too hard, they just have no willingness to learn.

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  qwerty on 01/02/2019 - 22:47

  +3

  You want to peak at year 12

  Tutors at grade 6 is a bit much tbh unless you are doing a test to get into an elite school

  Worry about good habits doing some homework , reading , basic maths etc

  He might want a career in a lower grade score , or do a job that needs tafe so he drops at year 10 or play sports so pushing him down an academic path is pointless .

  • 

    HighAndDry on 01/02/2019 - 23:10

    +2

    Getting into a good high school will help with peaking at Year 12.

    • 

      blitzzbargain on 03/02/2019 - 00:08

      I think you're right, a good school does not mean that it has to be a private school, but a school that encourages learning and provides full support to their students.

  • 

    GoatLord64 on 04/02/2019 - 08:07

    +1

    This. I'm not a dumb kid but i knew as long as i passed everything all that mattered was my year 12 grade and a lot of kids are realising this.

    Spent my earlier year coasting through not trying just getting passes had good fun in those years playing video games and sports instead of the mostly worthless homework.

    Then when i got to year 12 i sacrificed that year, had no fun or free time, smashed out a good mark and now i got the course i wanted. And all those D-C grade years mean nothing.

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  djkelly69 on 01/02/2019 - 23:05

  +3

  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

  I would just focus on teaching him some age-appropriate methods of 'studying' so that he actually knows how to study when required, and encourage him to do it (carrot rather than stick).

  I wouldn't stress too much at this stage - I doubt many year 6s are doing much real study at all.

  Maybe also work on some other ways you can help improve his knowledge of various areas that you both enjoy and feel a lot less like doing homework - eg. trivia, puzzles, brain-teasers, suduku, etc.

  • 

    Kangal on 03/02/2019 - 12:48

    Blink and you'll miss it.
    6 Years isn't that long as we age and become monotonous. I'd say the parent should be concerned, the more effort he puts in and earlier, the bigger and longer his effort will pay dividends (as the type of adult he wants his child to become).

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  Tech5 on 01/02/2019 - 23:17

  +16

  I'll tell you what. I was a complete shit student from grades 1-9. I did not enjoy studying at all, I often did not even know that a test was on that day. I went to tutoring from grades 1-7. I had my parents on my ass 24/7 making me study, do maths problems etc. I hated it.

  They let off when I was in year 9-10, and stopped forcing me to go tutoring. In year 11 I went from the bottom 20% in the grade to the top 40%. In year 12, I got to the top 5%

  Motivation comes from within and it cannot be forced. I think one good thing was that they removed bad habits like excessive gaming. (I still played PC, but not nearly as much as teenagers these days)

  If I could go back in time and look from the outside in, I would say to teach me how to think critically. Talk to me and try to hold intelligent conversations with me. Make me want to think and make me want to learn more.

  • 

    swapsey on 02/02/2019 - 00:29

    Good perspective but “motivation can’t be forced” and “make me want to learn” seem to clash in your answer.

    See me after class!

    • 

      Quantumcat on 02/02/2019 - 08:41

      Not clashing, it makes total sense - he couldn't learn to want to do it until the outside forces stopped pushing on him

    • 

      Tech5 on 02/02/2019 - 11:16

      +3

      It is more like don't say "You need to do this and this". More like "Look at all these interesting things". And I will be like- I want to know more

      • 

        swapsey on 02/02/2019 - 18:35

        Well I clearly failed English at school and miscomprehended your comment. I still connected with your perspective though. Too real.

        • 

          Kangal on 03/02/2019 - 12:51

          @swapsey: Did you go to pulbic school or private?

          • 

            swapsey on 03/02/2019 - 13:28

            @Kangal: Both

  • 

    Clear on 02/02/2019 - 09:02

    +1

    Gees I can relate to that so much. Never did any homework in primary school and never in high school. My reasoning was always that as long as I attend school and do my work I'll pass and it's true! Not to mention the concept of homework is flawed. I was never the smartest kid and didn't bother with those extracurricular studies that everyone seemed to love for some reason.

    When it came to senior high school it hit me that I needed to pull my head in to get an ATAR score for University. Went from having average meh marks to almost the highest marks in exams and got into uni easily. Though I now see uni as the biggest waste of time and money in my life.

    Unfortunately people I know didn't come to that realisation, dropped out and live off Centrelink since they can't get jobs. It's depressing.

    • 

      Diji1 on 02/02/2019 - 11:04

      +1

      So you think if everyone got the same marks as you there would be no unemployment?

      • 

        Clear on 02/02/2019 - 11:28

        No and I didn't imply that either. Reinforcing tech5's comment and specifically his comment on motivation. I've told what my motivation achieved and what the consequences of no motivation achieved.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 03/02/2019 - 00:16

    I think your story and experience is very interesting.
    I totally agree with you that motivation comes from within. But how do we encourage our children to realise that motivations are important?

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  outlander on 01/02/2019 - 23:25

  +1

  I think the basics behind it are not too hard to grasp. Just ask yourself, what makes adults want to study? And then adapt that to a child's mind framework. Every subject has something that makes a student sit up and take notice. Its just a case of breaking it down and simplifying it so that the goal seems achievable. But to do that you need to know the material yourself. Most parents don't, which is the problem. It ends up just being one idiot telling a bigger idiot hey, you should study this. I don't really know it and I get along fine, but you need to know it for some vague reason that I'm not going to explain why
  Probably the best way to encourage someone else to study, is to study yourself and succeed in some heavily apparent way.

  Btw I was in one of those selective programs. It was pretty shit tbh

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  [Deactivated] on 02/02/2019 - 00:16

  +2

  You could try some rewards.

  Telling a 12yo you have to do this because it is important for your future doesn't seem to be working (and I don't think it would work at motivating most 12yo).

  Saying, you will get xxxx reward if you get an A in this subject this term, would likely be more effective. Maybe look at his worst subject, and maybe if he is getting C grade, offer some incentive to get a 'B or higher' .
  Doesn't need to be monetary reward, but could be (something that costs money, a gift). Could just be say, increasing 'screen time' from 1 hour day to 1.5 hour day, as his reward/incentive.

  Worked with someone I know. She didn't get a phone until all the other kids in her class apparently had one, but her dad got her phone eventually after she got all A's for a certain period of time (maybe a term, or that year). He well and truly could afford to have just gifted her everything and anything, but I think he wanted to teach her a 'value for money' , and seems to have worked. Anything special she wanted as a kid, she had to earn it with good grades even though parents could have just given her everything and spoilt her rotten.

  As others have mentioned, get to know your son more. Work out why he doesn't want to study . None of us here know your son so anything we suggest is general in nature, so won't necessarily be best for your son.
  One thing for sure though, The more you push and force a kid to do something, the more they will not want to do it. Use the carrot (encourage him every little thing he does good) rather than the stick (getting mad at him for not doing as you tell him he should because of his future).

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  tassieeagle on 02/02/2019 - 00:35

  +9

  If a kid wants to learn and do well it doesn't matter what school they go to.

  In my opinion let the kid decide what they want and support them 100%.

  For what it's worth, I went to a low socioeconomic high school full of bogans and I have a bachelor of science and a master of teaching. I know doctors and drug addicts who went to the same school. Instill good values and be supportive to your kid and I'm sure they will be ok in the end.

  • 

    Randxyz123 on 02/02/2019 - 09:31

    This 100%. You have good intentions but as others have said in year 6 you’re still a kid not thinking about your future, he’s not going to want to study and will see it as a bad thing or punishment.

    Quite a few selective schools start from year 9 for a reason and that’s what I would work towards.

    Some people aren’t academically minded and that won’t change.

    • 

      blitzzbargain on 03/02/2019 - 00:32

      Some people aren’t academically minded and that won’t change.
      I think they can change, just a matter of time and/or encouragement of family & friends around them!

  • 

    Donaldhump on 02/02/2019 - 10:53

    +1

    in my suburb the doctor was a drug addict.

    • 

      blitzzbargain on 03/02/2019 - 00:19

      Really? You are in the most prestige suburb in Australia!!

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 03/02/2019 - 00:26

    I will support him if he knows what he wants. At this point, it is too early for him to know what he really wants to, expect playing games and watching TV and Youtube!!

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  Halsmich on 02/02/2019 - 01:02

  +1

  Just a bit of input here as someone who was recently a "kid". Don't try to force a ton of study onto him at like any point of his education. Improvement happens bit by bit, not within the span of a week or so. The motivation to study will come if he finds something enjoyable, like a certain subject, and even then, it should be handled with moderation, instead of grinding hard. At the end of the day, I think grinding really hard is pretty pointless, you're really just studying how to take an exam, with the conditions of "Maths", or "English" or whatever. I don't want to toot my horn too bad, since I came out pretty badly, but at your son's age right now, around grade 5 and 6, I was taking several practice exams on a daily basis, and got into an accelerated class with flying colours, possibly one of the highest entry scores. I kept slaving away for the first few years of high school as well, and I produced similar results in my selective school exam. When it came to Year 12 though? Had no motivation, basically didn't do any homework (still have my maths exercise book with 1 exercise done out of like the 15), and it reflected on my study scores, mostly under state average. Right now I think it's a little too early to be forcing anything, let him embrace youth a little while he can. And while I'm at it, please don't send him to a selective school, honestly was the worst studying environment and a literal hell-hole ugh.

  • 

    kingmw on 03/02/2019 - 17:29

    -1

    Selective schools are bad for kids who are forced in through exam preps, study courses, coaching (which seems to be the majority now). They were primarily designed for intelligent kids who are interested in learning so that they can advance at a faster rate than regular schools. This faster rate is what makes it a hell-hole for kids that are forced in as they are constantly falling behind.

    • 

      Halsmich on 03/02/2019 - 18:15

      +1

      My description of selective schools as a hell-hole is a little different from what you're saying. Honestly, what the school really offered is kind of the opposite of what you're saying, an alarmingly large number of teachers were quite lazy, learning was basically look at a textbook and rely on your tutor. But that wasn't really my big problem. Aside from stuff like forced donations and a certain disgusting incident (a whole other story), my big beef with selective schools is the students themselves. As you said, it really is full of kids that were forced through tutoring and the like. And they all have the misconception of "grind hard = become a genius" stuck in their heads. The competitive nature was actually more detrimental than beneficial, people would deliberately hide notes (or in my case, steal mine and go photocopy them, and then after the exam was done, tell me how useless it was), if you got a 90%, your score was "so shit", and the "gods" (as they called them) who performed really well, would act so conceited that numerous times they would act as if poor performers like myself in later years didn't exist. On a more personal level, since I visited the school counsellors regularly over depression what not, I got asked on a regular basis (sometimes by people I didn't even know), when was I gonna commit suicide so that they could all get SEAS (exam benefits). All it is, is a bunch of arrogant, self-centered kids who have been brainwashed by their own parents, that med/law is the way because of the money. Oh yeah, and the top 4 or 5 in the cohort who got 99.9+, most were frequent ditchers, one of them in my form I only saw probably less than 5 times in the whole year.

      • 

        kingmw on 03/02/2019 - 18:50

        I would agree that the teachers in selective schools are generally nothing special because I think it is a lottery system for teachers to get in and also the students will perform well regardless of their teaching which tends to make them lazy.

        Yes the students are overly competitive and are never taught to work together/help each other improve and excessively judgemental though I think this could be implied to all high school students in general. The difference is what the competition is e.g. looking good, boys/girls, friend groups, coolness factor etc.

        Just remember that these so call "gods" are just setting themselves up to fail in real-life/jobs/employment because this requires more EQ than IQ. i.e. interviewing skills, communication, teamwork, leadership, conflict management.

        Hopefully your experience has not scarred you for life. Remember there is much more to life than just school.

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  elgrande on 02/02/2019 - 06:59

  +5

  Just rent for a year or so in a good suburb when its time for high school.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 03/02/2019 - 00:02

    It is not 100% work for some schools. There are some schools that would ask you to find another school if you move out of the neighbourhood. It is clearly stated in the school's terms and conditions.

    • 

      elgrande on 03/02/2019 - 10:55

      Yep.. if you tell them.

      • 

        Xastros on 03/02/2019 - 23:57

        Or if someone else tells them. Hard to have no kids at your kid's school know where you live. Hopefully your kid doesn't make any enemies.

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  ms_caz on 02/02/2019 - 07:43

  +1

  Focus on your child's development of enterprise skills so that s/he will be able to create their own future:

  Critical literacy
  Digital literacy
  Financial literacy
  Creativity
  Presentation skills
  Problem solving

  These skills might be encompassed in your child's regular study or homework, but they are also part of all of their day to day hobbies, activities, chores etc. You don't have to be encouraging your child to do more "homework" but instead to be more aware of and understanding of the world around them, to actively engage in the creating, making, designing, teaching and implementing of projects. Encourage their curiosity, and link this to thinking of (finding, making) alternative solutions. Encourage (and model) a wide worldview with conversations about what is and what could be - society, politics, economics, environment, science and technology etc, and encourage and allow your child to engage with these things in real life so that they become resilient and resourceful and can apply this open minded enquiry approach to everything they do.

  Refer to research from Foundation for Young Australians to understand more about enterprise skills.

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  Dentshop on 02/02/2019 - 09:05

  +15

  What surprises me is when parents who don't play a musical instrument try to encourage their child to practice one. Big, fat parents who blah, blah about how important calisthenics class is. Parents who do ZERO study themselves and force their children to. Children imitate their parents in good and bad ways - all parents know this. Boys who are into fixing cars are usually imitating their dads. Girls who love volleyball had mothers who love the sport. My advice: Grab out a book and start reading if you want kids to read. If you want them to study Chinese - do it with them. You get the jist.

  • 

    apenman on 04/02/2019 - 11:48

    you are misrepresenting roles here .. while I do agree, you have to show an interest yourself before you are going to be able to get your kid to do it, I do not have time to master a musical instrument, before I want my child to enjoy a skill that they have tons of time to master. Yes I am forcing her to do it. But if I do not, then she will waste her time. They are children because they do not realise this, and as parents it is our responsibility to arm them to face the cruel world out there, and introduce them to ob asap.

    • 

      Dentshop on 04/02/2019 - 12:46

      I never suggested mastering the skill you would like your child to attempt since no skill can ever truly be mastered. I suggested doing it alongside her or at least setting some sort of example. Face the same hurdles as her and teach her resilience. Reach new goals with her and teach her humility. And definitely don't teach her that the world is cruel - this does nothing to inspire her.

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  Donaldhump on 02/02/2019 - 10:51

  ask him if he would rather get paid minimum wage working his but off, in a sh*t job where he cant afford holidays or toys,
  or
  get paid 3 x that in a cushy office job where you have ample left over to buy what ever you want.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 02/02/2019 - 13:59

    Tried that it does not work :(
    The answer is obvious of course as a doctor or a lawyer, your life would much more comfortable in term of the earning but not necessary the lifestyle…

    • 

      Donaldhump on 02/02/2019 - 15:43

      +1

      Do a role play

      Week 1. 10 bucks pocket money, hard chores, must start at 6am
      Week 2. 50 bucks, cruisey chores, flexible hours.

      My dad told me his back was knackered at 40 and got paid nothing, don’t be like me, stuck in my head st an early age, but I still got cut when kids from school earned money working at servos and the like when I was at uni not working much

      I guess at 11 years old life is a bludge , maybe to early to expect otherwise

      • 

        Jugganautx on 03/02/2019 - 10:46

        Dont have to have an A grade education and degrees to make coin. Plenty of construction jobs that pay well for hard working blokes…

        You wont know what type of man he will grow up to be until his late teens

        • 

          Donaldhump on 03/02/2019 - 12:14

          @Jugganautx: not saying you need an A grade education, and construction jobs do pay well, but a construction workers body must get knackered over time, and would be hard to do in your 50's and 60's. but your last sentence is true.

          then again sitting in an office for 50 years is the new cancer anyway. so i just went off my own dads advice, better to sit in aircon than be in the heat. but each to their own.

    • 

      kingmw on 03/02/2019 - 17:36

      Generally wont work because this is an abstract concept and requires abstract thinking (what adults do) when you son is probably only at concrete learning. Demonstrations are much more effective.

      http://fcit.usf.edu/mathvids/strategies/cra.html (Maths related quotes but you get the gist)

      1) When initially teaching a math concept/skill, describe & model it using concrete objects (concrete level of understanding)
      2) Provide students many practice opportunities using concrete objects.
      3) When students demonstrate mastery of skill by using concrete objects, describe & model how to perform the skill by drawing or with pictures that represent concrete objects (representational level of understanding).
      4) Provide many practice opportunities where students draw their solutions or use pictures to problem-solve.
      5) When students demonstrate mastery drawing solutions, describe and model how to perform the skill using only numbers and math symbols (abstract level of understanding).
      6) Provide many opportunities for students to practice performing the skill using only numbers and symbols.

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  Diji1 on 02/02/2019 - 11:07

  I know most of us are going to be on our deathbeds wishing we did dull, onerous study when we were 12 years old.

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  trustnoone on 02/02/2019 - 11:27

  +2

  At this stage, if you can, then probably best if you take 30 mins out of your day and study with him, he'll probably appreciate being with you and will be more motivated for it. It seems a bit early for private tuition in my opinion, but I guess its all up to you/him. I see that you're riding the "study hard" thing, but maybe you should ask him what he wants out of life or his future. Does he want to be an accountant/engineer/doctor etc. That way you can tailor your study and help him in ways that he'll actually have a part of (future job of his life). For example if he wants to study engineering, you can help support him studying maths, physics etc. And let him know it directly helps his future out.

  • 

    blitzzbargain on 02/02/2019 - 13:55

    At this point, he does not what he wants to do in the future.
    I am hoping he can go to a university and study what he likes but it is up to him how he can achieve that.
    Currently, he likes to play online games, watch tv and youtube, those are his hobby.
    I made it clear to him that at the moment, I cant afford a private school.

    Just assumming, again it is just an assumption, he wants to study medicine, with his current way of study, I dont think it is achievable at all. Also depending on which school he would go to but in general only good schools would be beneficial to him in achiving that dream.

    • 

      fossilfuel on 02/02/2019 - 20:08

      +4

      At this point, he does not what he wants to do in the future.

      The typical year 6 boy and girl would not know what they want to do in the future. A lot of secondary students don't know either. Many university students also question whether their degree was the right thing to do or not.

      As mentioned in trustnoone's post, the best thing you can do right now is make time and study with him. If you're strapped for time, 10-15 minutes is better than nothing. Future goals and aspirations are not important now. The focus should be building stronger literacy and numeracy skills as well as incorporating extra-curricular activities into his routine. It will be much easier for him to get into most careers (e.g medicine if he wishes to pursue that in the future) when he has a strong foundation across the board.

      Just assumming, again it is just an assumption, he wants to study medicine, with his current way of study, I dont think it is achievable at all. Also depending on which school he would go to but in general only good schools would be beneficial to him in achiving that dream.

      That mindset is destructive, it sounds like you've given up on him. Your son is in year 6 and has many years to go before deciding a career path. Primary school students like to have fun, that's normal behaviour. I have known students from disadvantaged schools who go on to study law and medicine. I have known students from private schools who became labourers. Those students who end up becoming successful have parents who are actively involved in their childs development.

      Right now, it seems like you want your son to do well. You can play a more active role in his success by working with him through the online materials that you've purchased and assisting him with homework from tutoring. His success depends on you, as a parent, playing an active role rather than passive role.

• 

  serpserpserp on 02/02/2019 - 13:10

  +3

  OP why do you want him to go to a private school? You don't want to be the poor kid going to a private school anyway, better to be in a school comfortable for your child and you (or parents) need to spend a lot of time with the child through high school helping them out. Forcing tutors onto them and being hands off yourself will not help things.

• 

  Banana on 02/02/2019 - 23:45

  First off, I don't want to sound like I am bragging, but 3 out of 4 kids were top ~<1% in the state. We all went to a public school in and didn't go tutoring until Year 12.

  Most kids start to hate school when they don't have it 'under-controlled' or, 'school is not for me'. But if you've set their attitude right for school, then they are more like to stay around and hopefully do well.

  My mum used to make us sit at our desks at 7pm everyday, she started this ritual when we were as young as preps. Eventually, it became a habit to sit at our desks at 7pm everyday, regardless if we had homework that day.

  Grade 6 is a fantastic time to start developing this habit. Make them read a book or something.

  I also see that you're in Melbourne, so your kid would probably be doing VCE in a few years. If you're all about getting the highest score possible, continue reading.

  VCE is a bit of a game, if you play it well then you're guaranteed a high score. You want to land yourself in the right spot on that bell curve, then you'll get maximum amount of boost for your scores.

  Students would need to complete at least 5 or up to 6 subjects to qualify for VCE certificates. This does not mean you do all 5 or 6 in Year 12.

  All 3 of us completed 1 VCE subject in Year 10 and at least 1 VCE subject in Year 11.

  This made Year 12 much more manageable.

  I am happy to go more into this if you're interested.

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 03/02/2019 - 11:13

    Did they teach you to use the adjective 'everyday' incorrectly and rather dubious mathematic inequalities, like top approximate less than 1%?

  • 

    kingmw on 03/02/2019 - 17:47

    -2

    Don't agree with making Year 12 easier by completing subjects because this does not reflect university or real life. This is like going to university and completing only a partial load because it will make it easier to pass or asking for less work from your employer.

    Facing adversity gives you strength and resilience while looking/finding for shortcuts makes you weaker. So the kids that actually did all 6 subjects in Year 12 and in the top 1% are probably better students than you.

• 

  relentless on 03/02/2019 - 09:02

  Bribe or bluff. Study for 3 hours and get an extra $15 pocket money.

• 

  newbiesh on 03/02/2019 - 09:15

  Private schools are such a waste of money in Australia tbh consdering how great are publics schools are.
  I'd say putting reward on good marks might do the trick.

  • 

    gregsurname on 03/02/2019 - 23:53

    +1

    Whether they are a waste of money or not they are certainly not the Ozbargain way.

• 

  DiscoJango on 03/02/2019 - 10:26

  i lol'd after finishing high school and seeing the super geeks who cried at getting a 98 score working in coles and a call center. grades arent everything. common sense, social skills and independent thinking will get him much further in life than being a drone addicted to getting good grades.

  • 

    netsurfer on 03/02/2019 - 10:56

    I think it is better to look at the positive side of things. Some, if not most of them, had the will power to study materials / subjects which are of no real interest to them. They did demonstrate what most people cannot. Let's face it, majority of them are way more successful than losers like me browsing OZB.

    Sure, some of my high school classmates are arrogant and selfish (and I doubt they would be good doctors). However, the fact that they showed that no matter what you throw at them, they can learn that materials very well is important - you don't want your doctors to only know 80% of the materials. However, I can see universities now realise high school year 11/12 materials aren't sufficient to differentiate the real ones and the ones which got helped from tutors / doing huge amount of practice exams so you will only be able to study medicine post grad is a positive change.

    • 

      DiscoJango on 03/02/2019 - 11:16

      the school system is also based on those who can "cram" the best. i know many people who are useless in exam conditions, however easily outperform these students in real world scenarios.

      • 

        netsurfer on 03/02/2019 - 12:09

        +2

        It's not. That's what a lot of people think (and I used to think that way too). That thinking is fundamentally why most children don't want to study. It doesn't work that way.

        There are basically 3+1 levels of studying efficiency.

        1. You are very interested and eager to learn the materials. You learn very quickly and understands very well - very efficient learning. 95%-99.9% efficiency.
        2. Strong will power that you are able to study / learn whatever materials, even if you only have little interest - good level of efficiency: 80-90%
        3. Very little interest / pretending to be studying / forced to: low efficiency: 30-60%

        If you think those top student are in category 3 most of the time and just cram and burn time, then you are greatly mistaken. They are generally in cat 1 and 2 (most of the time 2). It is cat 2 that truly shines. You only need to do it once to realise why it really makes a difference.

        The other level is tutoring - which gives you an additional boost of 10-60% (and you cannot get over 100%). It's not about what you remember. It is about whether you understand. Sure, you can cheat and memorize to beat the system. The tutors (the good ones) can tell you what the exams are actually about in quite a number of cases - which is cheating.

        It's a misconception that teachers want students to fail. No, many teachers / lecturers told the classes I attended they are happy to pass everyone and give everyone 100%. The reason they failed students is because the students simply were way too slack. Every student can do well, it's just whether the individual wants to or not. The problem is the teachers know this so they don't feel sorry for them.

        Note: whether you do well or not has nothing to do with those top students, it is mainly you. Don't blame the others for what they are doing. Sure, study is not everything, but it doesn't hurt to prove that you have the self control to conquer the urge to slack off - at least for a few times.

        Put it this way, later on in my study, I have a clear idea what I would get after an exam (I don't need to know how well others did) - why? Because the teacher/lecturer only cared about what I know.

        People useless in exams but great in real world - chances are, they slacked off earlier, but now realise what they can achieve when they put effort into it. Also, in workforce, experience plays a bigger role. If they are truly good, either they are really interested in what they are doing or they realised what they've done wrong and now know when they put their will to it, they can get things done.

• 

  netsurfer on 03/02/2019 - 10:40

  I think it is best to draw from your own experience. When did you realise the importance of study and/or the key to it and how did you realise it? Only when you truly want to commit to study (learn the new materials), you maximise your study potential and truly learn.

  No one knows the solution to make children click / realise it. It is different for everyone. My take is that generally a life changing experience has a better chance to trigger it. The current environment you provide (nice and comfy) generally isn't ideal to make that happen.

  Forcing your son to study is the second best option (and might be the only interim option). I think if you study with him (basically think of yourself as a tutor to your son), that could help - though that tends to wear off once you are too busy and cannot keep on doing that. Essentially, when self motivation is lacking, the learning efficiency drops, to compensate for that, you basically have someone who knows the materials hammers in the key points to him. You are the best tutor because you will put in 100% for your son. Only you will be willing to spend the time to ensure he properly understands the materials.

  Private school, unless you can get your son into the top notch ones, the benefit could be minimal. Only the top ones are good because some of their year 11/12 teachers are PHDs (i.e. people have the will power to study and proved that). They may also be involved setting the state exam questions.

  We know your son is smart enough, and you know it too. Well, being smart isn't really the key here anyway. It is more about the will. A good example was (when I hadn't clicked): my friend hardly attended lectures (other than the ones where there would be tests), borrowed my notes, and got better score than me in the tests and the final exam. Also, the first comment he made after the final exam was he thinks he didn't get H1 (which was the highest grade level at the time) - P.S. he did get H1.

• 

  Toons on 03/02/2019 - 13:28

  What motivates him without outside influence, does he go to school because he has too and would rather be be playing sport or music for example.

  Spending all that money on a private school if he enjoys working with his hands i.e. Electrician can be great combined with Instrumentation. or he might like pulling things apart and rebuilding them something Mechanical or he could have a knack for languages and work in a whole range of areas and locations.

  Find out what he is interested in, has he ever made reference to a skill or profession that fascinates him.

  I agree from my own experiences that enforcing a kid just sends them the other way.

  Why can't kids be kids a while longer.

  Finding that thing that drives him could be the key (say he wants to be a game developer / programer , sounds fun but hard work and) but you will be able to demonstrate what he needs to try and achieve to get there so if he hates a particular subject you have a reason to make him think about getting stuck in.

  It's unfortunate that it seems you need to pick your vocation so early in life.

  You could also chat to his teachers they might have had these conversations with him.

  I did a trade first then engineering and it made me better for it.

  I Just hope you don't put yourself in a position of a struggling to make ends meet, having a sour relationship, being too busy for him for the sake of a private school if he always has you to back him up he could do just as well in the public system.

• 

  belongsinforums on 03/02/2019 - 13:41

  +1

  Pretty simple behaviourist approach: reward good behaviour and ignore or punish unwanted behaviour.

  He wants to play games? Sure, do your homework first, then you can play. He doesn't want to do his homework? No gaming. Works fantastic with kids, who often rely on short-term or immediate rewards to get motivated. Be reasonable, but firm.

  • 

    DarkOz on 04/02/2019 - 09:48

    Been there done that. We are at the next stage when he sometimes would give up his entertainments so he doesn't have to study.

    "I didn't play my iPad today, why do I have to do my homework?"

    • 

      belongsinforums on 04/02/2019 - 20:07

      Wrong order. Homework first. Sell the ipad if he doesn't obey

      • 

        DarkOz on 05/02/2019 - 07:17

        Goodie goodie, no homework forever!

• 

  Name on 03/02/2019 - 13:43

  Find what motivates them.

  My kid loves minecraft. He can't play minecraft unless he finishes his homework.

  Also don't push your kid too far. Half an hour a day of focused homework is all you really need at his age.

  When he gets older or close to exams, need more but rest of the year. Not much.

• 

  netsurfer on 03/02/2019 - 15:22

  In my opinion, he can get a place, but he needs to work very hard for it.

  So he has to work very hard for it. Or, you need to figure out a way to improve his ability to understand new materials effectively. Study with him maybe (to speed up his take up speed on the materials and/concentrate on the key points).

  You need to decide how much you want to push your son.

  Now, tell your son to get his act together, study properly and stop wasting my (tax payers) money. I blame you and your wife (lousy genes)… only kidding.

• 

  conservative on 03/02/2019 - 18:01

  +2

  Just ask your local asian mum. They know how to force kids to work and study

  • 

    Xastros on 03/02/2019 - 23:59

    It's called corporal punishment.

• 

  down-under on 03/02/2019 - 19:34

  Did you do better at his age? Just checking.

  If you really want the best for your kid, I’d suggest you to focus on the more important things first, e.g. wealthy parents is the best thing he/she can get.

• 

  AlanHB on 03/02/2019 - 20:26

  Not sure if this helps but:

  • When I was younger I received rewards from my parents for doing extra study on top of school. Usually extra pocket money or something. I remember a particularly large reward was Kings Quest V. Can't remember specifically what I did to get that.

  • When I was a tutor in maths, I found the best approach was to work off the school's corriculum (ask the school for a copy), and teach ahead of it, introducing new material and having the student go through exercises in their school book. Their teacher would then cover the material I had introduced them to, re-enforcing it.

  The biggest advantage of this approach was that the student would receive little to no homework, because 90% of the time we would have already completed it in my session.

• 

  George Washington on 03/02/2019 - 21:48

  encourage them as much as you can. Also try to get them to talk to other adults family friends or people in your network with a professional career so they can look and focus them to a path worked for me

  • 

    [Deactivated] on 04/02/2019 - 01:41

    I encourage grammar and punctuation!

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