Jetstar Sale Fares - Melbourne to Ayers Rock from $180 Return / Sydney to Honolulu from $414 Return @ Flight Scout

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  dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 14:47

  +1

  That's a good price to the Rock! Only just over a year before you can no longer climb it, so get there and get to the top while you can!

  • 

    miller0 on 30/08/2018 - 15:06

    +3

    Or just respect the Aboriginal's and don't climb it.

    • 

      dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 15:17

      -1

      I respect the Aboriginal people; that doesn't mean I have to accept their superstitions and beliefs.

      • 

        miller0 on 30/08/2018 - 15:21

        -3

        No, if you respect the Aboriginal people then you wouldn't be recommend others rush to the rock to climb it against the Aboriginal peoples wishes.

      • 

        dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 15:40

        +10

        @miller0: After several minutes of self-reflection, I find my previous statement still holds true; I respect the Aboriginal people; I don't accept their superstitions and beliefs.

        Uluru is naturally occurring geological formation; just because the ancestors of today's Aboriginals climbed it first and subsequently ascribed some significance to it in their belief system, doesn't grant it magical properties that should exclude others from enjoying it.

        The view from the top is worth the climb, and while there is still no law preventing visitors from climbing it, I'd encourage those who wish to, to do so.

      • 

        GG57 on 30/08/2018 - 15:51

        +4

        @dm01: I haven't been there, but I understand that visitors are discouraged from climbing, in much the same way as visitors are requested to adhere to certain dress conditions to enter some religious holy sites.

        Out of respect, I adhere to all of those requests.

      • 

        dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 15:53

        +1

        @AngryChicken: Neither a pillow or a crucifix are naturally occurring geological features dating back hundreds of millions of years before humans existed.

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 30/08/2018 - 15:56

        @dm01: There's rule that "naturally occurring geological features" are excluded from that which a people may cherish or attach importance through tradition or a belief system? Sure, OK.

      • 

        dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 16:00

        @AngryChicken: No rule, I was trying to politely point out the stupidity of your comparison.

        It's one thing to cherish something or attach importance to it, but quite another to exclude others from experiencing it in the same way.

        

        dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 16:00 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
      • 

        [Deactivated] on 30/08/2018 - 17:56

        @dm01: yes, it's a bit like saying, you shouldn't eat pork products out of respect for muslim and jewish people's beliefs.

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 30/08/2018 - 19:02

        +1

        @dm01: Would you be happy to abseil on a cathedral? That said I have been to the "roof" of places like St Peters, Sacre Coeur, Notre Dame, etc and the views were breathtaking. I have also been to the top of Uluru, many years ago, and the view was also breathtaking. Frankly, to me, it is a one in all in situation. Either you respect the sacred places of no religion or all religions. The beliefs of the aboriginal people were entrenched before any of the major religions were a twinkle in "eye" of whomever their God may be. The main reasons I would see with stopping people climbing the rock is that people keep falling of it and the rock can be quite friable in places so people climbing it is damaging it. The traditional people of the region have prior "ownership", in the same way that religions have "ownership" over their religious buildings. Climb it, don't climb it - either way it is worth seeing; especially at sunrise/sunset.

      • 

        dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 21:18

        @try2bhelpful:

        The main reasons I would see with stopping people climbing the rock is that people keep falling of it…

        The majority of deaths on Uluru (and there really aren't many) are attributed to heart-attacks, not falls. More people die from shark attacks - maybe we should stop swimming, surfing, and diving.

        …and the rock can be quite friable in places so people climbing it is damaging it

        Probably the most reasonable argument of all, yet it's the same on any rock/mountain/track etc frequented by tourists, and it's also being worn away by wind and rain naturally, anyway. At what point do we encase it in glass to preserve it "forever"?

        Either you respect the sacred places of no religion or all religions.

        So by extension should one be accepting of none or all religious beliefs as well? Should we respect the beliefs of certain African peoples who perform female circumcision for religious or ceremonial reasons, or those who ascribe desirable properties to potions containing the ground up parts of albino persons, as dictated by their belief system? What about the stoning of adulterers and homosexuals as still practised by certain hard line groups? Extreme examples, of course, but sometimes you have to extrapolate a "reasonable" position to test it.

        Regarding your example of abseiling on a cathedral, what makes it any different or less respectful than ascending/descending via an internal stairwell?

        The beliefs of the aboriginal people were entrenched before any of the major religions were a twinkle in "eye" of whomever their God may be.

        Should we give greater respect to older beliefs?

        Climb it, don't climb it - either way it is worth seeing; especially at sunrise/sunset.

        Completely agree.

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 30/08/2018 - 21:51

        @dm01: I was, specifically, referencing sacred places not general "beliefs". I do not "extend" beyond that. You are free to view this as you may, but this is certainly not my intention.

        I really don't subscribe to any religion as I dont see a lot of logic happening in any of them and they appear to be a way of trying to impose a minorities view on the majority of the people. Some are worse than others but few of them have clean hands. The Catholic church hid the abuse of children for, at least, decades and this went to the highest levels. Entrenched sexism is a feature of most of them as well using some variation of "scripture" to justify this.

        If there is an all powerful "diety" out there then it is quite capable of communicating directly with people - it doesn't need a bunch of middle (mostly) men interpreting it for them.

        The point I was trying to raise with the "older beliefs" was that this has been of value to them for a long time so it can't be dismissed as a "new age" fad. If they feel it gives them a spiritual link to a particular area, and have felt this for a very long time, then who am I to tell them they are wrong. They aren't using it to justify killing other people - which is more than can be said for some of the "newer" religions. The crusades, the jihads, the inquisition, etc. Most of the religious tomes, including the bible, have some very unsavoury things in them - however the religious people seem to be happy to pick and choose depending on what their particular "prejudices" are.

        My point for the abseiling is that I'm sure most religions would not allow you to abseil on their buildings, even if they allowed you to climb the stairs. Would you be prepared to go against their wishes?

      • 

        dm01 on 30/08/2018 - 22:09

        @try2bhelpful:

        I was, specifically, referencing sacred places not general "beliefs". I do not "extend" beyond that.

        I realise this, but I can't see why you (or someone) would respect a place for being "sacred" yet not also hold some respect for the associated beliefs.

        I really don't subscribe to any religion as I dont see a lot of logic happening in any of them…

        Your views mirror my own.

        If they feel it gives them a spiritual link to a particular area…

        And perhaps some people feel spiritual atop a high rock looking out over an expansive landscape

        They aren't using it to justify killing other people - which is more than can be said for some of the "newer" religions.

        Of course - it's causing no one any harm to hold those views. But then neither is walking up Uluru.

        My point for the abseiling is that I'm sure most religions would not allow you to abseil on their buildings, even if they allowed you to climb the stairs. Would you be prepared to go against their wishes?

        I really don't see the point in comparing a constructed property to naturally occurring monolithic feature - no one built Uluru.

      • 

        try2bhelpful on 31/08/2018 - 19:22

        @dm01: My point is if you find religious building sacred then there is no reason why a group should not find a natural occuring element sacred . There is nothing sacred about a building, per se. It is made from elements found in nature. Personally if I was looking for the sacred I would find it in nature rather than buildings - after all "God" has made the nature and man has made the buildings. Then again that is also my difference between belief and religion.

        I am a bit of an architecture nut, I go into building because I love the architecture - I go to the top of structures because I love the view - however if a religious organisation asked me not to go to the top of their building I would be OK with that. I feel that same with Uluru - this is their "cathedral" and they have a right to their views - <Diety> knows we have taken so much from them.

        I don't know what my views are on a "supreme being" but I do find myself bewidered that an all knowing god would allow children to be raped if they could intervene. Free will is fine for the perpetrator but was not available for the victim.

        I don't think we are too far apart here, it is just what we consider to be "sacred" that is different.

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  mr fox on 30/08/2018 - 15:12

  Checked Melb - Tokyo price. Ouch.

  • 

    zhanggg on 30/08/2018 - 15:57

    +1

    Jetstar only fly to Tokyo via CNS and OOL now, so the price probably reflects the two flights you'll have to take. If you want MEL-NRT direct you'll have to settle for Qantas or someone else.

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  GG57 on 30/08/2018 - 15:53

  Some good prices there, depending on destination.

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  [Deactivated] on 30/08/2018 - 15:59

  Note the Uluru cheapest fare is during summer, when the rock is almost always closed off anyway given the risk of heat stress.