Hey guys, As a recent HSC graduate im finding it difficult and almost frudtrating at deciding what degree I should do. I got an ATAR of 99.6 and can pretty much get into anything apart from medicine as I didnt do too well in my umat. So right now the courses im considering are Usyd commerce and law, UNSW actuarial and commerce, optometry, possibly engineering. Thees so much to consider including future job availability, earnings, amount of stress and work life balance associated with each of the future profession. I hope the ozbargain community can give me some advice and suggestions especially some if the lawyers, actuarys,enginners and other professionals here.
What degree should I study in uni?
Comments
I am completing a teaching degree however if I could choose again I would go with Forensic Psychology, Crime Scene Investigator / Forensic Scientist.
Good luck :).
There's a lot of generic advice here which is good.
It's very hard to know finishing high school what you want to do and only time and experience will give you a clearer view.
The advice I would give people applying to uni would be pick
(1) Something you are passionate about
(2) Something broad
(3) Something that gives you purpose.You need to be passionate and love what you do because you will likely stay in that field for a while. In any profession that is competitive, ambitious and high powered - you will be required to work at times inhuman hours. Careers like Investment banking, Management consulting, Private equity, Medicine, Law and Actuary (To name a few) will require great sacrifice and hard work. If you are to succeed and not burn out, your motivation must exceed the work load that is demanded of you. If you for example are doing Medicine, you must be willing to work nights, weekends and public holidays.
Doing something broad early on is an excellent idea. People think it is a waste of time, but this is the short term view that we too often fall into the trap of when we are young. I really do believe the American's have got this right in their education system - hence their love of liberal arts colleges. Diversity helps broaden your view in ways which may not be immediately apparent at the time. No matter what field you end up working in, having cross knowledge of different domains will give you insight that others in your field may not have.
Finally I would say do something that gives you purpose. There is a plethora of studies and surveys done in the work force that show that the one thing employees desire most is purpose in their job. Purpose can manifest in different ways for different people, but having that sense of purpose will motivate you when things get tough.
Be a tradie! I have my own business and I can earn as much as 150k - 200k a year. I can take days off whenever I want. Australian trades gets paid extremely well! Keeps you fit and the ladies loves you! :)
whats your trade?
I did law/IT degrees. Unfortunately it's very hard to get anywhere in law without connections or a love for what I consider boring areas such as commercial, corporate, finance, taxation, etc.
I am now a criminal lawyer which is most fun, but the least amount of money. If I had to go back I would get back into IT or delved deeper into IT related law although that tends to be commercial and IP related and therefore rather boring to me.
On a side note, here in WA I get many applications from law graduates for jobs, work experience, etc. Even from over East. It is not pretty for graduates. I will typically take on 1 or 2 at a time to give them a taste of it. Sometimes I will offer PLT to those looking out of kindness, but typically they're on their own once I admit them.
I just admitted someone and was able to get her a possible job where she is basically working for free to see if she's any good. And even then the employer is my old boss from 10 years ago that would only consider her because she can read and write Chinese.
A UMAT score is only required by 7 of the 19 medical schools in Australia.
Only 1 undergraduate school does not require UMAT. Rest all need UMAT or GAMSAT.
ICT business analyst if i was starting again. The importance of IT to business is increasing, people will be needed who can link business and IT and design these new automated jobs. Do information systems or an IT course with a strong business focus. The business focus is more important than the IT.
I agree, something with Comm/Info Systems , ICT Business Analyst, Process Engineering will be highly sought after
Rio Tinto CEO shed some light on the 28:55 minute mark - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiBFzLA5n2A
I thought doing Comp Sci single major was good enough. The business aspects can easily be picked up over Comp Sci.
People have been saying the same thing for a couple of decades - "computer science or IT, it's the wave of the future".
My contemporaries who studied business or law or something else entirely have ended up outstripping my mates who went into IT or comp science. If you're in the US and studying at some of the top software eng schools and getting a job at Google or Microsoft after graduation, then that's something else entirely. But I'd rather be running a tech company (which more often than not does not require IT or comp science or software eng) than be the programmer or tech guy working for the boss.
Don't pursue med. Do law / eng.
or dentistry. $$$
don't worry, you'll figure it out. at the end of the day, it's just a job.
I studied Mech and Aero Engineering (in Qld). Since I was a kid, I used to love opening things up and I loved all forms of technology. I've been working in design for the last 4 years and it has been great, but what I have found is that there are people who live and breathe 'design' and those people are amazing at it. I personally don't think I'll be as good as them in it but I have found that I am great at communicating with people. Now I am looking at moving into Management Consulting - something a bit different but just as interesting for me. I found the part of my job that I enjoyed most was the people interaction - more than the design/technical project work.
My point above is - at the end of the day, I don't think your degree restricts you as much as people may say. Even with my Engineering degree, I'm able to apply in the Big4 consulting firms and people are calling me in for interviews.
You may get into work and find this is not the right thing for you - and you may even be fortunate enough to make a jump sideways without losing any time/years. As much as it is an important decision(picking your degree), good people skills and communication will get you quite far in your career. It will also be the reason you enjoy your job. Most people when asked at a company what they love about their company: 90% of poeple answer : I love the people in my company. Anyway, my 2c - be friendly, be open minded, work hard, treat others nicely and you'll find that people will treat you nicely - in return you'll have a happy and great career no matter what you do!
All the best mate.
Well you've done the right thing coming on ozbargain to ask about your education and future career. It's the place to come for decisions such as this.
I think you should do an art degree.
Sarcasm is strong - but at the same time I think he did a good thing.
I'm sure he asked 'career advisors' but at the end of the day - you have to ask yourself… how did the career advisor end up as a career advisor.. it's like a fat guy being your personal trainor. It just doesn't make sense.
I think you're doing the right thing OP by asking as many people and getting as much advice from people regardless where they are from.
You've worked hard enough to have the luxury of choosing a career you will enjoy. So well done to you!
My dad was adamant I should be a lawyer. I remembered we sat down to select university preferences with half of the 12 slots as law/double degree law-combinations. One week before closing, I swapped it to dentistry. I've never looked back. He got use to it, but he's doubled up on effort convincing my younger brother.
It's fine to be money driven, it's a job. But be ethical, always. This applies to all aspects in life. You don't need to take short cuts. You'll make it. You'll own a house, or 2, or 4. And you'll have a nice car if these are your goals. There is something intrinsically fulfilling about working honest and working hard which you will never be able to rewind and hope to "start over"; your "self" or as others may call it, "soul", is priceless.
For some honest $/pa numbers from my close group of friends. (reports online are not accurate, too many health professionals work as contractors and their income is invested in companies, in trusts etc…which might make "waged" professional average earnings reported in papers inaccurate).
Ages 25-28
Myself and friends - Dentistry non-practice owners:
Individual A) 48 weeks, 6days/week - $250-$300k
Individual B) 40 weeks, 4days/week - $130-$180k
Individual C) 48 weeks, 5days/week - $130-$160k
Performance basedOther friends:
Law individual A - 48 weeks 5days/week - $220k
Law individual B - 48 weeks 5days/week - $180k
SalaryCommerce:
Individual A/B/C/D - 48 weeks 5-6days/week $90-140k
SalaryTeacher:
40 weeks 5days/week - $102k (very close to the other professionals in terms of $/hr).
Salary
And we REALLY need good teachers! So please consider.
If you communicate well and maintain good grades in university, you won't have any troubles finding a job.PM if you have other questions.
Thank for the data as insiders information relaly helps. However only head teachers would earn 102k but then I guess teachers can do external tutoring and whatnot. Also which dental school did u go to
I think private school teachers max out at about 102k.
Also, if you factor in super then 102k is prolly right for public school teachers.
Yes true, he is a head teacher. It's there for perspective, he does have a good lifestyle! To further your thought, he does run VCE exam revision lecture classes that bumps up his income considerably. He also mentioned that private school teachers get paid a lot more.
Some would argue that you can just reduce your hours and have the same length of time off, but it doesn't work like that. As a health professional in a private setting, you can't wipe off 3 months a year where you are not available for your patients.
As for the university, I don't want to disclose as it's a small world for us.
If you are worried about University biases, don't be, unemployment rate is extremely low; if taking further study, maternity leave and debilitating sick leave into account, it's almost zero.
Those dentistry figures look awfully inflated - $300k for someone with around 3 years working experience? I see you mentioned it is performance-based. Who determines this and how is it determined?
Definitely not inflated (one is my business partner to establish a practice and we are privvy to our tax returns).
Performance is based on billables. Which is directly linked with how many patients trust you to return and refer. Further there is a huge range of treatments dentists offer.Don't be too surprised, I've seen 10-20yr experienced dentists, their work is amazing and their billables exceeds these by many multiples (without owning a clinic).
Still a bit confused - you say one of the three is your business partner but in your original post, you specifically mention they are "non-practice owners". So you guys started your own practice at age 25-28?
@brainactive:
Correct. We are starting. Just purchased the commercial space (April 2017 target) so the above figures are not practice-owner figures.
I haven't talked to two others that bought over retiring practices, one I would estimate (being 3 clinics across Sydney) has a 7 figure EBIT. She became the owner at age 24.
Here's one for you though: Why all the questions/scepticism?
I gain nothing by inflating any of the above, in self interest I would more likely deflate figures.My figure FYI is not the highest there. I value lifestyle. In fact, my eBay business started at age 16 is many folds higher than my dentistry. I'm also certain that if I dedicated 40 weeks to my business I would make about double my dental income.
If you want money, don't do dentistry. However, it is highly rewarding to treat another's health.
The highest earner in the list does case-selective orthodontics as well as implants. Normal hours with bread and butter dentistry and you will reach B and C's limit.
Here's one for you though: Why all the questions/scepticism?
The number of groupon deals I see for dental procedures makes me think there's lots of Dentists that are struggling in their own practices.
Maybe. I wouldn't know. I don't engage in product wars.
I do think that dentistry is becoming more affordable, which is a good thing. Our profession only fears that quality might be traded.
Maybe. I wouldn't know.
Seems like you should educate yourself, if your planning on starting a business … basic strategy like estimating the size of the market, your competitors, your value proposition, etc can go a long away.
I don't engage in product wars.
The dental procedure groupons aren't limited to whitening/invisalign/implants. The bulk of them tend to be check up/xray/clean.
I do think that dentistry is becoming more affordable, which is a good thing.
Maybe good for the population, but it's bad for the practitioners and probably terrible advice to suggest someone get into a profession that has significant deflationary pressures on it.
@icollected: My questions are coming more from curiosity, although I am a little surprised to hear some of this. How does a 24 year old become the successful owner of 3 clinics? Presumably they would've been fresh out of uni, with little experience doing simple cleaning, let alone more complex procedures. How do they even gain credibility without hiding the fact that they are the actual owner of the clinic with no experience?
How does a 24 year old become the successful owner of 3 clinics?
Smells of mommy and daddy setting her up.
Lawyers on 150-220k pa by 25-28? Not going to happen, unless they're prodigies or born into influential families and made senior manager or partner at a top-tier Sydney firm. At a high level of abstraction, the average salary for a lawyer in AU of similar PAE (I assume 3-5 years at those ages) is circa 80k; your figures are prone to very much mislead.
I don't normally reply to these sorts of things, but had a good laugh at OP's username.
As someone who followed a typical "asian" career choice / path (fancy IB job etc etc.) I wish someone sent me this:
I also wish someone forced me to start travelling much much much earlier.
Good luck OP.
Something you want to do for 40-80 hours a week for many years.
Defence force become a pilot, go to uni through them (maybe a dual degree maybe commerce/engineering as a fall back) Do your time become a commercial pilot, live where your want, chicks will dig you, steadily rise through the ranks, once at the top of the tree making big money little chance of being made redundant. Stay single don't get tied down by a woman, if you must do that wait til at least late thirties, once you are making good money you will want to be based anywhere else than here the tax system will rip you a new one, being a commercial pilot that should be very easy to do other professions harder
chicks will dig you
Perhaps - but more likely than not, you'll end up with a cabin crew … not every pilot's dream, I imagine.
once at the top of the tree making big money little chance of being made redundant.
It's only a matter of time until drones take over commercial flights.
It's only a matter of time until the remaining unionized (or government backed) airlines go bankrupt and pilots have to take pay-cuts to save their jobs.
It's only a matter of time until the next natural disaster/epidemic/terrorist attack/airplane kills off tourism for an extended period of time.
There's too many forces stacked against the commercial aviation … better off in another niche part of aviation like cargo or medical transport or private jets.
I study Optometry at UNSW, if you have any questions, shoot me a message!
you should study 3d reconstruction ;) google
drones, autonomous cars and robots need that to understand the environment where they operate
you don't have to be graduate from commerce to get into a banking job.
they are hiring ppl from different fields now.
unless you wanna be an accountant.
ugly truth is after your graduation from uni, no one will really look at your ATAR.
employer will look your job experience/attitude and etc.
so choose something you really enjoy for your undergrad.
even you really like law and you didn't choose law for your undergrad.
it doesn't really matter, lots of UNI have Juris Doctor(JD) course for post-grad.I work in health. I decide my hours, take my lunch breaks when I want and go home if I can't be bothered by 2 or 3pm.
I strongly suggest to think about your future work life balance and the money you will make. Your job is just that - a job. Not everyone is going to love what they do but if you can come home at a reasonable hour (I.e. Not after 8pm), you don't hate what you do, if you can be your own boss, and if you feel you're helping people, that's pretty damn good.
All my lawyer, commerce and business friends work insane hours, some until 11pm at night, drink a lot on the weekends and are far too stressed for my liking. Also, I know a lot of them struggled to find work even with high scores…
Let me guess- you work in emergency medicine?
emergency medicine
No. She's not a doctor or a nurse. They don't decide their hours.
You're somewhat correct. If they're a Spec Consultant, particularly private, then there's a good chance they have this level of flexibility. Dr and nurses unfortunately not. In any case, you're right in that you won't see this situation in emergency.
The best advice is your own advice (i.e. Fist instinct gut feeling). Why?
Life is a gamble no matter how meticulously you have planned it out!
You'll graduate (doing undergrad/Masters/Doctors etc)
Then the real step starts….
A) Get a JoB
B) Continue Studying / Study another degree / Go into research at uniEarn an income (and grind 9-5/ 5 days a week) ~ Get promoted etc etc
What r u gonna use the money for?
Buy a house?
Start a family?
Travel overseas? / Start a new Life overseas?Continue (repeats)….. till Death
OR
Get bored/ do something else
1. Study again
2. Change Jobs / Change Careers
3. Start your pwn Business
4. Relocate to a new country and start a new life/careerBasically everyone's story is different. You do what you can but try to make the most out of it! People can give you ideas and advice but in the end it's up to you live it up and do what you think is most appropriate for your situation. Things will change in your life in ways that you can't imagine, hence you've got to be flexible but at least have a GOAL and stick to it as much as possible. Also attach a DEADLINE to that goal, that way you make the most out of the time that you've spent on it.
LEARN from your experiences , there's really no right or wrong way of doing things, you're only delaying a choice through procrastination, live at the moment and have no regrets.
OP. I also got an ATAR of >99 but could not do medicine. I was influenced by my parents to do Dentistry. Upon 3 years into the course, I realised that I am not suited to be a health professional. But by this time, it is too late to switch.
Hence, I decided to bail ship ASAP and am currently doing Comp Sci concurrently with a plan of doing Honours in the future. I am keeping my fingers closed for a corporate position in Big 4 or a tech company in the future.
Switching into Engineering was too late, as my total time at uni would have been 7 years (I want to graduate earlier).
My suggestion would be to go with a double degree of Comp Sci + Electrical & Electronics Engineering (5 years). If I was to rewind time, I would do this and snap it up.
My reasons are as follows:
1) Can work in High voltage power line companies
2) Can work in Software Companies
3) Can work in Computer hardware/electronics companies
4) Big 4 and Banks love you for your mathematical and software knowledge.
5) Can progress into the higher realms of corporate world such as stock trading easily.This is easily the ultimate degree, with the broadest job opportunities.
Also, choosing the right course early is very important. As you progress through uni, you will realise that it is a drag and will want to get out ASAP.
This is easily the ultimate degree, with the broadest job opportunities.
If you enjoy sitting at a computer all day.
The guy has no interest in computers. He would not enjoy it.
I initially hated sitting at a computer all day. But now completely enjoy it, over clinical dental work. Tastes change over time.
Hi not reading all of the responses just giving my opinion on the subject.
Comm/law are always going to lead to massive job opportunities. Doesnt matter if its not directly related, but just having the degree will improve your job prospects greatly. I wouldn't recommend doing both though unless your really interested going down the comm law path (as a lawyer for example). Doing one or the other will suffice in impressing a future employer (generally speaking). I do recommend law if your into human ethics as a topic as you learn other skills like writing well, thinking with a high level of empathy and learning more about human society. Law however does have heavy amounts of "boring" reading so if you don't like reading, might consider comm.
optometry I wouldn't recommend, your locking yourself into a much smaller job market in my opinion, unless you have a strong interest in it.
Engineering I believe is also a good choice to consider. There are many branches of it, and if your good at what you do and have excellent communication skills can earn quite a paycheck. A lot more jobs out there than you think in terms of engineering. If you like problem solving and science, engineering is cool and I'd consider UTS as well for this course.
Comm, engineering and law are all great umbrella courses that offer a wide prospect of jobs. But consider your interests and whether or not you can take the work load. First year uni can be daunting and if not prepared can affect the rest of your academic record.
Of course this is just my opinion based on what I've heard from friends and experienced in uni myself. Hope this advice helps in your decision making.I'm not so sure about your second sentence. I know plenty of LLB/B.Comm grads from top universities working in cafes just waiting to die.
You need to take a long team view as many have said. You might be doing this for the next 40+ years. You haven't actually told us why you want to do the subjects listed other than good money, short hours.
What are your hobbies?
What do you do in your spare time?
What work do you enjoy so much that you would do for free?I'm an architect, I design all day and can't believe someone pays me to do it. Granted, I don't earn the same as a dentist or a lawyer, but I absolutely love what I do and I'll do it until I'm 65 happily.
If you like being out and about, working with a lot of other people and traveling for work and being able to work in multiple countries, construction might be your thing. An engineering or a property econ degree will open up paths to project management and development management. Development management is especially a lot of fun and you get to meet a lot of people and the social life is great.
If you dont mind may I know how do you see future of architecture with technology advancements? How are the current job opportunities?
Technological advancement in the last 20 years, especially in cad means smaller teams can work on larger projects, but it's reached a point where teams can't really get smaller anyway.
I'd say technology is the least of your worries, the industry is much more tied to the economy. During the gfc, projects were put on hold and work completely dried up and hasn't recovered until recently. Even now there are still mass layoffs in Brisbane, it's a boom and bust industry.
In terms of job opportunities I won't bother with any where else but Sydney. If you want to be a designer rather than a documenter, the competition is fierce. There's usually only 2 to 3 designers in an office of 25. Add to this one of the toughest and longest course at uni, the long hour and low pay, you really have to love it to even consider a career in architecture.
Hey mate I've only skimmed the comments but I'd like to share with you a little bit about my journey.
I graduated HS in 2007 and got 96.65, I did Arts/Law and got a job straight out of University after doing my PLT.
I practiced in Personal Injury Law for a period of 3 years and absolutely hated my time there. Now granted everybody has a different set of circumstances and environment, however the hours I was doing (8AM-7/8PM most days), stress, anxiety (which I ended up on medication for) definitely took some years off my life. After deciding that I no longer wanted to practice Law, I was lucky enough to get a job advising/consulting in the life insurance industry where I work now and it's much much better in regards to pay/work life balance. Most of my team here are much older than I am(I'm 27) and we all do a straight 8-4 with 45 min lunch, and this is a FIRM 8-4, most people start leaving at 3:50.
All in all if you do end up doing the com/law route, don't get tunnel vision and assume it's either you become a lawyer or you don't, I view the dual law degrees as a more respected arts degree and you'll find opportunities in places you never thought to look.
Also there seems to be some conjecture on how much Lawyers get paid. Mind you I was only 3 years PAE, but my salary went like this:
Year 1: 47.5k + super
Year 2: 56k + super
Year 3: 65k + superBonuses ranged from 2-3k a year depending on how I played the game that year. It's definitely better than minimum waged but nowhere near what people thought we earned.
Working in the Life Insurance industry now, I'm on 90k + super, add this into a 8-4 day, decent sized portfolio and good corporate environment with little to no office politics?Absolutely no brainier.
yeah this is the story i hear from many graduates which raises my uncertainty more. If you could repick your degree what would you have done from the begininng?
I would still pick Arts/Law. Apart from the fact that I was never really good at anything else, I still love Law and the work I did, it was more the hours/office politics/meager salary in comparison with other fields. Plus the people I've met in Colleagues and friends/clients I truly value.
Work should compliment and enrich your life, not the other way around.
Do note that salaries differ depending on the type of law you practice.
As a corporate lawyer at one of the bigger commercial law firms in Syd/Aus (an achievable pathway through the clerkship process), you are looking at a starting salary as a graduate of 65-70k + super (depending on the firm you are at)
Except clerkships aren't exactly 'achievable' anymore; approximately 10% of students who pursue clerkships will ever recieve one.
If you want to do very well then do actuarial/law and do well on both sides. Most people are not good at both - it's generally one or the other. Also as mentioned above. Make sure you do languages. If you do well in that course and are equipped with languages then the whole world is your oyster. The people who I know who have done this are all over the world globally - getting paid extremely well and very happy in life - although all worked hard to get where they are.
Do what you love and have a passion for, if you don't know, think about it, because it could cost you happiness in the interim. But, that doesn't mean you have don't have time to change. You always do.
Can only speak from my experience.
I followed my passion, it was design and writing.
I did Multimedia Systems, a mix of everything, code, design, engineering, business, you name it.
No jobs when I graduated. Did a Masters in Creative Media.
Then got my first job as a Creative Designer, paying a good first wage.
Stayed there for 3 years getting experience, then the digital boom happened. Heaps of job openings. My role changed to a Digital Designer.
High demand, I could cherry pick which job I wanted.
Future job availability? Digital is not going anywhere
Earnings? Pays well
Amount of stress? If you're good at your job, less than most jobs in this thread
Work life balance? Wouldn't change a thing, lots of time and can work from homeIf I had my time again? I would have focused straight on Digital, but I followed what I wanted to do, even though people said you won't get a job. Now it's not even like I'm working.
Think about it. If you're curious about a career path, do it. If you hate it, leave. You're going to be working a long time, might as well enjoy it.
Ignore your ATAR, and enter the field that interests you the most.
I was in your shoes 20 years ago.
I changed my mind 100 times before the start of term 1.
My advice is to move into the area you are most passionate about.
This is not what I did - I gravitated to medicine but have spent many years blending that with my true interests. I've done well, but always had some regrets as spending 20 years to get where I am.
Based on my 14 year international experience, I would certainly suggest that you should try exploring USA. As a professional engineer I suggest you look at IT courses as future belongs to information technology. If you prefer to stay in australia then I would not suggest civil, mechanical,electrical or aeronautical engineering as demond in australia won't be significant by the time you graduated.
If you interested in commerce or law then try combining law with commerce.
If you prefer to get into business then try chartered accounting.
At the age of 21 if you are looking for work life balance then just get admin job and forget about grade that you achieved with hard work. — Bit harsh but thats the fact.
I would recommend a computer science/commerce double degree to give you to most career options. I really enjoy my career; it's challenging (a good thing), pays well, and you can pretty much work anywhere in the world if you're good at what you do.
I'm a software developer and did a software engineering degree. As things get more automated, there's going to be even more industries available to you in the future. Of course offshoring is a legitimate concern but your commerce degree can be your back-up.
Happy to chat more about this if you're interested.
I am interested in doing one of the below, whats your thoughts on the below degrees ?
ICT Business Analyst
Computer sience
Comm/Info System
Business Information System
Software engineeringI'd definitely pick Computer Science. It's what my friends and I would've chosen if we had the chance to do it all again (we all did software engineering). Once you're in the workforce, it's experience that matters. Your degree will get you in the door.
28degree must have
The questions you have right now sounds a lot like the questions that ran through my mind at a similar stage in life as you. I graduated from Commerce/Law Usyd but had some regrets pursuing the law degree. Ultimately, I pursued a career in finance and so far my law degree has only added to my HECs debt and put me behind the pack by about 2 years (compared to those who graduated with a straight commerce degree). The main reason I chose to do a double degree in commerce and law was similar to you, I had good marks and thought the prospects of job opportunities were better - and they are. But the opportunity cost of picking the wrong degree can outweigh this. The main reason i did not pursue a legal career was because English was not my strongest subject and in legal field, you would be expected to read quite a bit. In addition, you would be competing against the best in a field where you might know the correct answer but lose out based on your ability to articulate that information. To summarise, if you enjoy reading and writing legal sounds like a plausible path for you. In terms of job opportunities, most (if not all) of my colleagues seem to have gotten stable jobs. You don't need to work for a top tier law firm straight out of uni, you can always work at a smaller office and jump around/work your way up - so don't be deterred!
Commerce is such a diverse degree - there are so many different career paths out there.
On the topic of a gap year?? Mate, go for your life. 3months - 1 year gap year is great. Gather your thoughts, meet people, ask them what they do for a living, experience different cultures etc. One of my biggest regrets during my uni days would probably be not going on exchange - missed out on such a great opportunity to live and study overseas. The biggest difference between high school and university is that you will no longer be spoonfed information - you will need to go out and search for information yourself.
On the topic of work-life balance?? This really depends on company to company and field to field but working in Australia, I would say were are quite blessed. Work-life balance is something that can be readily achieved - for e.g. working in the public sector.
Happy to discuss over a cup of coffee - I work on the city
As a medical student I would advise that you don't rule out medicine and keep it high in your preferences list if it is truly something you want to do. If you don't get a first round offer, you may be offered 2nd round or even a conditional offer! You can do it! Medicine is a field with a huge range of specialities so you should be able to find something you enjoy. However, you need to dedicate yourself 100% if you want to do it as it can be challenging
Any of you aspiring Computer Science students might want to consider going to the US for your degree now that Australian degrees are getting more expensive. A degree in Computer Science at UC Berkeley costs a fortune at about $150k plus living expenses, but those graduates get treated like royalty. I worked at a few recruitment drives/fairs there and Google, Pixar and other big names compete to give US$70-90k jobs for graduates. I just can't think of even one Australian employer that can compete with the US big guns going all out to attract graduates. I only got a degree in Australia and later worked in SF, but wow, those students get treated well :).
Interesting. UNSW S.Eng degree is well reputed overseas and is a fraction of cost of UC Berkeley.
I was also, looking at US degrees as well. But the E3 Visa can trump all.
at UC Berkeley costs a fortune at about $150k plus living expenses
This is the big picture problem. If I was birthed as a millionaire, I would have no issues with going to the US… But I doubt 99% of the population has that kind of cash.
Hey guys, do you think nursing is suitable for OP?
Most people have said it - PASSION.
I was going through a similar process as you now a few years ago. I had completed Comm at USYD and worked for a couple of years before realising I didn't like what I was doing.
Similar to you I was looking at the cool prestigious stuff - Medicine, Law, Engineering and also Property. Got into UWS undergrad Med but realised that I was only pursuing it because it was difficult to get into and well respected (egotistical reasons).I ended up choosing property (Valuation) because it was the most interesting to me of the four areas I was considering, despite its lack of prestige.
Originally I was worried about losing time to people that originally did property straight out of school. However as I was passionate about it, I found it relatively easy to do well and advance past most people my age that had been in the industry for many more years. To frame this, I was recently offered a job paying 120k gross after only being in the industry for 3 years (started studying in 2014).With passion for something you can much more easily rise to the top of your industry (you learn quicker, have more energy, naturally work harder without having to force yourself, other people in the industry like keen people more, etc.). If you're at the top of your industry you will very likely be earning much more than an average person, even in an industry with a higher salary.
Finding the thing you positively like, or don't hate, is probably your most pressing concern. As others have said though, don't worry about losing a year or two at this stage. If you find something you like, the future payoff is much greater anyway.
Tying this to your current decision, I'd enrol into a Commerce/Science degree and invest the first year in trying to find out what you like by taking units in all the things you mentioned - Engineering, Med (Science), Computer Science and Law as well as core commerce accounting units. Anything that's not in your prescribed course you should be able to take as an elective unit. This should allow you a better idea of what you like.
I hope this was of some help.
Do a trade….esp in this country, trades earn so much more than most uni graduates
trades earn so much more than most uni graduates
I wish people would stop pedalling this nonsense.
Uni graduates may not earn much in the short term, but are far more wealthier than the average tradie over their life time. I can't believe people have to spell this out. Doing a trade isn't very fulfilling to someone who wants to become a doctor, lawyer or go into corporate life.
Even if tradies earned more, an accountant is going to have a bulging disk by the age of 40…
If he wants to do a degree then go for it. If hes chasing the easy money though then a degree is the wrong choice the way the economy is at the moment. The amount of plumbers, electricians and concreters im treating at the moment with incomes of over 500k is staggering. All with holiday houses and with their normal car generally some AMG OR M series. The electrician I use for my clinic reached his first million by the time he was 30.
At a very large company my friend works at their sales guys are on 500k salaries with up to 250k bonuses. I asked her what their qualifications were and she said they had no degrees!!!! They just had the gift of the gab.If he wants to do a degree then go for it.
Try reading the OP's comments. That's what he wants to do.
It seems like money is all you care about.
Electricians, plumbers, sales scum do not keep this world working. Engineers, lawyers (they do) doctors do.
I remember asking myself the same question when I was starting university applications. The options I'd considered at the time were Engineering (specific discipline unknown), Law and Economics.
I spoke to my dad who was an Electrical Engineer for about 15 years who then went on to do Optometry (long story) and is still a practicing optometrist about my options. He recommended engineering as he found that while the theory he learnt wasn't applicable in daily life, the mental framework he developed while doing it was.
I ended up doing a degree in Electrical Engineering and used my free electives to do a few Mathematics, Economics and Finance courses.
I find myself occasionally revisiting the question, wondering if I'd make the same decision again if I got a do-over and the answer has always been, "Yes".
The only thing I'd consider changing would be to do Mechanical Engineering, just for something different.Now for the reasons why:
Both of these fields are a lot broader than they initially appear and I'd encourage you to look at them more closely. Electrical Engineering at the University of Queensland (which I graduated from) for instance, includes Control Systems/Robotics, Biomedical Engineering, Digital Signal Processing, Telecommunications, Electromagnetics, Power Electronics, Power Transmission, etc. which you do as advanced electives. You also do several computer programming/software engineering modules so at the end of the degree, you've got quite a wide range of skills and exposure to various areas of work. Given the world we live in today, these skills are very applicable and are likely to stay applicable for some time.
Same as with my dad, I found the analytical mental framework I developed while doing the course invaluable. I have worked as a design engineer in engineering consultancy, a data scientist and a subsea engineer in oil and gas. While some of what I learnt in university is relevant in my daily work, it's the way of thinking that ultimately adds value and I use it outside of work extensively too. I find the approach has helped me grasp concepts in other fields much more easily as well.
Because knowing how stuff works is really cool and girls dig it (I didn't meet many in engineering classes, but the ones from other faculties were usually even easier to impress)
I saw that you described yourself as someone with good communication and interpersonal skills. While these are valuable traits to have in almost any situation, having these in an engineering environment will really set you apart (unfortunately, many engineers do not have this). There are many really technically competent engineers (and unfortunately even more incompetent ones) who never fulfill their potential because of an inability to articulate their excellent ideas or influence those around them when there are decisions that need to be made. Most engineering work involves working in teams as well, so being a good communicator will really help. It will also help you get a job because again, there plenty of competent engineers, but not nearly as many that are competent AND also are good communicators. Also, if you decide you want to go it alone, then the whole Tech Startup path is also available to you with the skills and networks you'll have built up from engineering school :)
I fully acknowledge that times are tough for young engineers, but really, who isn't it tough for right now? A slowing economy and glut of graduates will do that to any industry. Still, there are companies hiring and there are still newly minted engineers getting jobs. Like every other field, it's just more competitive.
So that's been my experience so far. All I'd ask you to do is take a closer look at the courses you're considering and see if they look like things you're interested in learning more about. There are plenty of people who do not work in the fields they studied for in university and plenty who are successful without university degrees. In the end, it comes down to attitude, application and a little bit of good luck never hurt too! Do your best and make yourself available to the opportunities that will inevitably come by.
All the best!
very well said, Analytical mental framework is the most invaluable lesson you develop through the degree
Well don't do architecture. The pay is low, low, low, and the hours are long, long, long. Probably the same for most creative fields. Double that up with a long (minimum 5 yr) degree and the grads that are pumped out of the system are really hurting… It is fun most of the time, and I've already left some permanent marks on the world (ha!) at a youngish age. Giving client satisfaction in the private sector is great - can't comment on the public sector much, but they pay more.
Study an arts or teaching degree.
50 High Paid Profession in Aus - Are You on The List?
I would suggest that you stick with medicine (try to re-sit UMAT or choose other medical schools without UMAT requirement). You will not regret in the future.
I was undecided between com/law vs. medicine. I never looked back after entering medical school.
Yes, your initial income as intern was not much ($60k), however, your 'potential' earning after finishing college subspecialty
will trump other jobs (gross income up to $1 million/year). And remember, 'job security' also plays an important role of your decision.Whatever course you end up choosing, do well it in. I knew too many ppl who fluffed about at uni and ended up with P or C averages, and then wondered why no one wanted to hire them. And these were kids from good schools who scored 90+ UAIs.
Physiotherapy at the moment I think is pretty hot. If you get a job in the public sector it is pretty good. Nice pay I think around 80kish can defs get higher.
One of the awesome things, you help people and people actually respect you and thank you for what you do….trust me that is huge in a profession.
lifestyle may not be something you think about a lot at the moment but trust me when you have been in university for a while you almost only think about making sure your lifestyle is suitable to you and you actually enjoy the job you do to an extent. So physio lifestyle is nice, 9-5 kinda. Workload in public sector like public hospitals is good, not overworked, good pay. In private clinics bosses make the physios do more work than they should be doing to maximise profits and it can become disheartening and unbearable because you are working harder and longer but also not giving your patients the most optimal care and attention. Few people I know want out from private. But private is easier to get a job in whilst public hospitals are harder to get jobs in so you need to be high achieving or have a good portfolio ect
Demand for physios has been steadily increasing but so are graduates so things may change in the next 4-5 years. Overall though physiotherapy has been rising in terms of its demand and it will likely continue to rise as medicine continued to involve more allied health in their treatment of patients instead of trying to medicate all ailments.
biggest advice is probs do a degree you can get a job in as soon as you finish, as in dont fkn do science and waste those years..they are a waste, you learn the SAME stuff in a pharmacy degree for example and you can actually use that to get a job.
ALSO, if you do physio, its a decent step to getting into med if you want, you have to sit the GAMSAT exam during 3rd and/or 4th year of your degree then you can start med straight after you finish if you get a good score that is. This way you finish medicine after 8 years. Whereas I think if you get in straight away its 7 years now so its only one year extra. UNDERGRAD MED = 7 years. POSTGRADMED = (years of 1st degree i.e 4 for physio) + 4 years POST GRAD MED degree = 8 years.
and med is good man. srsly its hard work, but its really really rewarding. and its like 300k+ a year minus 40% tax. Lifestyle can be an issue but mainly because you are so dedicated to learning and work and medical advancement you almost want to spend time working because its more rewarding that sitting around at home with ur fam, lols.
this was horribly written srry bout that, pre tired. good luck.
undergrad med is 5 (mostly) or 6 years (UNSW). only the provisional entries at UQ/USYD combined degrees are 7.
yes but you are also getting an MD (masters equivalent) instead of an MBBS with UQ ect, so it is technically better, or at least looks better than MBBS.
no it's not. unis get more money for a MD course but it does not affect your employment prospects in any significant way. besides, most medical schools are changing over to MD regardless of whether you do undegrad vs postgrad so it's not relevant
@xbai: MD is masters equivalent degree, MBBS is bachelor's equivalent. There is a difference. Yea it probably doesn't affect employment in Australia, internationally it might like in the US where its entirely MD. There is a slight tweaking of what is learn and there is the recognised research component in the MD so its not entirely the same as MBBS. If you have an option of MD or MBBS you chose MD. But ye unis just want more money and that's why they are making the change.
@cool kid:yes you are right in MD has a research component but for all intents and purposes it does not matter if you have a mbbs vs MD. if you want to move to the states you have to do the USMLE anyway and mbbs is recognised as the equivalent to a MD. i'm not entirely sure what we are arguing about to be honest, i was merely pointing out that undegrad med is almost all 5yr programs (ie. UWS UON UAD UWA MONASH etc) ;)
@xbai: Yea same here, you are exactly right sir. Damn universities, I didn't realise how damn money hungry and profit driven they were until recently..such a shame. Cough UQ Cough
I thought about physio but a friend of mine three years after graduation moved goto sigapore where hes not eben getting 60k
Study and do something you love. You will be so much happier in your working life.
I had a long career as a nurse. In hindsight I would have liked to have been a radiologist maybe.To be a radiologist, would you still have to enter medicine by doing UMAT?
or postgrad via GAMSAT
Become an uber driver
My 2cents - I was in a similar situation when I finished my HSC a while back and I ended up doing actuarial studies and now work in big data for a large tech company.
It seems like you have quite a large range of options to pick from which might indicate you're not set on any certain path.
My advice to myself would be relax and try to figure out what I want before signing up for anything. This could include trying to catch up with a few people in each industry you are considering and seeing if you would like to live their lives in the future. Schedule in a coffee with a few actuaries, software engineers, lawyers, bankers etc.
If you're thinking about doing actuarial, keep in mind that you have plenty of developers trying to disrupt the entire industry using machine learning and AI. Most actuaries I know wouldn't know how to deal with big data and more complex machine learning systems running in production.
I would recommend going after a technical degree with a greater focus on computing to stay ahead of the curve (comp sci, maths/stats or engineering). If you want to pick up the business side of things, you will never learn that in textbooks and courses, best to shoot for work experience and internships throughout your degree. Work on tapping into your network to try and set up coffee catchups to try and edge yourself ahead of the others vying for intern positions.
Got a question for you on comp sci and big data. Do you mind turning your PM on?
Sure man, it's on now so hit me up
what's the cut off for Griffith provisional med? (BMedSci/MD)
was 99.60 a few years backI mean I'm not telling you to go do med, but clearly you had some sort of intention of doing it if you sat the UMAT…
Sure you can't get into medicine with those scores? Do it interstate maybe? Money is pretty good (250k easy as a GP and up to 2 mill as a successful private specialist). Plenty of different streams within medicine and I'm sure one of them will provide you with the so-called "job satisfaction" that you may or may not require.
I believe I used the word 'take', not 'require' ;)