Should Children Be Forced out of The Home When They Turn 18?

DeafMutePretender on 08/01/2016 - 23:55
Last edited 13/01/2016 - 06:13

Suppose you are a father or a mother (if you're not already one) and your child turned 18. Do you force them out of the house against their will? The average Whirlpooler bitterly says, yes, 18 year old children should be kicked out of the house.

But I would like to get the average OzBargainer's opinions due to the difference in demographics (eg. The average Whirlpooler is an educated young professional working in the computer science or engineering field, earns a 6 figure income, has a 7 figure superannuation + assets, has a supermodel wife as well as a secret mistress whenever the wife gets boring. The average OzBargainer lives in a cardboard box, or in a basement, at best).

But I digress.

Peruse the poll and select the one that is most applicable to your situation. The poll assumes you have children or will procreate in the future. If you don't plan on making babies, then hypothetically assume you have children.

Pro-Children F Off arguments:

  • Teaches financial responsibility.
  • Teaches them to appreciate the value of money.
  • Forces them to mature.
  • Money doesn't have to be spent on the child anymore means money saved (from the point of view of the parents).
  • Children stop being "brats" when they move out.

Anti-Children F Off arguments:

  • Financial responsibility and staying at home are not mutually exclusive concepts. (ie. both can be true at the same time)
  • Appreciation of the value of money and staying at home are not mutually exclusive concepts.
  • Maturity and staying at home are not mutually exclusive concepts.
  • Money (rent) paid by the child to the parents means less money paid to the "other"/the "out group" e.g. landlords/banks.
  • It is possible to remain at home while not having "brat" status.
  • Karma: When you get old and need help, your children will completely ignore your existence for the rest of your pitiful life (at worst) or they will first dump you into a nursing home and THEN completely ignore your existence for the rest of your pitiful life. Attendance of your funeral optional.
  • House prices/rent is the biggest expense for any early home leave. On average, the rate of increase of house prices/rent is greater than the increase in average incomes so moving out of the home now is more difficult than say, 30 years ago. Also, same story with jobs (tougher to find a job AKA money now than in the past).

When offering non-poll opinion posts, it may be helpful to state your race since some races or nationalities are more predisposed to a certain opinion due to differences in cultures/values. Or to rephrase this in a more specific and politically incorrect way, generally speaking, white Aussies hate their children and want them out ASAP, wogs/Asians are more supportive.

POLL RESULTS (AS OF Jan 13st)

The Great OzBargain Survey of 2016: Attitudes Towards Adult Children Living At Home

Well, this blew up since reaching the front page. Last time I checked, votes were about 100, now they're about 500. However, the trends and percentages haven't really changed so the conclusions remain the same.

We see that the clear majority of OzBargainers had the benefit of free post-18 accommodation from their families or if not, then they paid rent. Unfortunately, some OzBargainers did get forced out by their family and they probably weren't happy about that since they wouldn't do the same to their children.

The few underage OzBargainers on here seem to have their heads screwed on straight: all of them would let their future children stay for free.

Moral of the story: "life experience/maturity" aside and those are things that are still debatable, what's not debatable is that saving money instead of paying that same amount of rent to landlords are one of the biggest bargains anyone can get. Ask yourself: would you rather put that $500 per month into your or your parent's bank account or the landlord's/fat cat banker's?

One last thing that I haven't talked about yet and I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. There appears to be those who were kicked out of the house when they were young and are bitter about it, so they try to emotionally salvage what they can out of the situation by asserting that moving out of the house when young is the one and only way of gaining life experience and maturity. No-one, least of all I, would ever say "every person must stay at home when they finish school because it's the only way, no exceptions". We recognise that every person has their own unique situation so the optimum decision for them might not be the same for someone else. Not so with the forced early-leavers: "I moved out early! Everyone should do the same too! Because I did!", "Harden the F up, princess!" and other useless platitudes.

It's almost analogous to the circumcision debate: Those who argue in favour of male circumcision often already received the snip without their consent, so they're already emotionally invested in the arguments. Those who have never been circumcised and those who stayed at home rent-free are both similar in the sense that they had choice.

POLL RESULTS (AS OF Jan 1st)

Based on the poll results so far (sample size = 94), and assuming the voting trends continue similarly in the future, we can make the following observations:

Conclusion

  1. Very few OzBargainers were forced to be moved out of the home, and even if they did move out, it was by choice.

  2. Close to 50% of OzBargainers who remained at home when turning 18, remained there, RENT-FREE BITCHES (by the way, when I say bitches, I am mainly referring to Whirlpoolers 'cause they're probably jelly - btw 'sup).

  3. The second largest group are OzBargainers who remained at home and paid rent, willingly or not. About very 3 out of 4 OzBargainers had the benefit of staying home rent-free or paid rent. Very few were forced out, willingly or not (see point 1).

  4. Point 2 and 3 are not surprising due to selection bias. OzBargainers are relatively more frugal/money-smart compared to the average population so naturally, they would prefer not to spend money needlessly to out-groups (eg. to banks/landlords) and likewise, they wouldn't want their children doing that either. Worst case scenario, they would prefer to pay rent to their in-group (ie. parents/family) / have their children pay rent to them.

  5. Attitudes towards their children: Almost 50% of OzBargainers would allow their children to stay home for free (whatever their own post-18 experiences) and about 40% would ask for rent. Only 4 OzBargainers would kick their children out.

  6. What OzBargainers experience when they were young (eg. they stayed home for free), is likely the same experience their children will have (eg. their children will also stay for free). This assumes OzBargainers have children or plan on having them.

  7. A possible outlier to the above are those OzBargainers who were forced out by their parents when they were young, but wouldn't do the same thing to their children (opting to ask for rent instead).

Comparisons with Whirlpool

  1. While Ozbargainers lean more towards rent-free accommodation or with rent, for their children, Whirlpoolers lean more towards paying rent or kicking them out.

  2. Like OzBargainers, what Whirlpoolers experience will also be what their children experiences (see point 6). So if you're unlucky enough to be born from a Whirlpooler's vagina, you'd be well advised to start planning for your dystopian homeless future now and start saving money now (Step 1: Make an account at OzBargain. Step 2: Join ING Direct with competitive x.x% high interest saving accounts and x% cashback for PayWave purchases. Step 3: ???. Step 4: Profit.).

Improvements

  1. While the survey administrator (me) received complaints about how the poll had too many options, I've come to realise it was still too few. There needs to be an extra set of options differentiating between OzBargainers who moved out or paid rent (by choice/willingly or not). That's for the left side of the option. Being forced to moved out and moving out by choice are two completely different things.

  2. The right side of the option will have more improved wording. Future polls will have the following right side options:
    Past experience / and I will kick my adult children out of the house no matter what.
    Past experience / and I will kick my adult children out of the house if they don't pay rent.
    Past experience / and I will allow them to stay rent-free unconditionally, with voluntary rent, or move out by choice.
    Past experience / and I'm an Asian father or mother and THEY MUST STAY HOME. Be a good boy/girl Wang/Xiaomei and take care of your oldies 'k? (Joke option)

References

[1] Catalyst Thread: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2487152
[2] General moving out threads 1: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/?action=search&q=move+o…
[3] General moving out threads 2: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/?action=search&q=moving…
[4] Net Worth of Whirlpoolians: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2403644
[5] Whirlpoolian's Super Balance: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2388291
[6] Anecdotal "evidence"
[7] Interwebs

Poll Options

  • 7
    My parents forced me out of the house / and I will kick my adult children out of the house.
  • 15
    My parents forced me out of the house / and I'll ask for rent from my adult children.
  • 4
    My parents forced me out of the house / and I'll let my children stay in the home, rent-free.
  • 0
    I remained at home but paid rent / and I will kick my adult children out of the house.
  • 121
    I remained at home but paid rent / and I'll ask for rent from my adult children.
  • 16
    I remained at home but paid rent / and I'll let my children stay in the home, rent-free.
  • 4
    I remained at home rent-free BITCHES / and I will kick my adult children out of the house.
  • 12
    I remained at home rent-free BITCHES / and I'll ask for rent from my adult children.
  • 360
    I remained at home rent-free BITCHES / and I'll let my children stay in the home, rent-free.
  • 0
    I am underage and living at home / and I will kick my adult children out of the house.
  • 0
    I am underage and living at home / and I'll ask for rent from my adult children.
  • 6
    I am underage and living at home / and I'll let my children stay in the home, rent-free.
  • 9
    Whatever / Undecided
Home & Garden

Comments

  • DeafMutePretender on 10/01/2016 - 01:47

    'Sup Whirlpool. No, I'm not the same OP from the Whirlpool thread.

  • antzz on 10/01/2016 - 02:17
    +1

    Sent to Australia alone before 17 and have complete stranger as guardian. Saw my guardian twice only until I turn 18. I got Work at supermarket after 6 mth in Australia work part time while uni full-time.

    The work provide me enough to rent and daily spending while parent pay my tuition. This definitely gives me great start to manage money and lives independently. Once I start working I don't feel right getting money from parents without any urgent need. Parent said they save about 70k over 4 years by not paying my rent and daily spending. They then give me 1 kilo gold for my wedding from this money and I accept from them as my wedding gift

    I will definitely try to lead my child to do the same but it takes time to make this works. Financial independence and responsible takes lots of years, persistance and luck to build and develop. If you force out someone at 18 without capabilities to manage money and lives responsibly they will fail badly

    If you think your children is mature and responsible by all means pushing them to live out of home is one of the best thing you can do for them. But if they are not mature enough ask them to pay rent will teach them to be responsible with money

    • JimB on 11/01/2016 - 14:48
      +1

      Where do you display this 1kg gold lump?

      • antzz on 11/01/2016 - 16:56

        In the bank safety box. It is 100gr x 10 though although I prefer 1 kg bar

  • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/01/2016 - 02:30
    +1

    Teaches financial responsibility.
    Teaches them to appreciate the value of money.
    Forces them to mature.

    If you're any kind of parent, you should be able to adequately teach your children these things, to a degree, without throwing them out. I think it's in the 'child's' best interest to move out for personal development, since I benefited from it quite a bit, but not before they're ready.

  • DeafMutePretender on 10/01/2016 - 02:46

    The Great OzBargain Survey of 2016: Attitudes Towards Adult Children Living At Home

    Based on the poll results so far (sample size = 94), and assuming the voting trends continue similarly in the future, we can make the following observations:

    Conclusion

    1. Very few OzBargainers were forced to be moved out of the home, and even if they did move out, it was by choice.

    2. Close to 50% of OzBargainers who remained at home when turning 18, remained there, RENT-FREE BITCHES (by the way, when I say bitches, I am mainly referring to Whirlpoolers 'cause they're probably jelly - btw 'sup).

    3. The second largest group are OzBargainers who remained at home and paid rent, willingly or not. About very 3 out of 4 OzBargainers had the benefit of staying home rent-free or paid rent. Very few were forced out, willingly or not (see point 1).

    4. Point 2 and 3 are not surprising due to selection bias. OzBargainers are relatively more frugal/money-smart compared to the average population so naturally, they would prefer not to spend money needlessly to out-groups (eg. to banks/landlords) and likewise, they wouldn't want their children doing that either. Worst case scenario, they would prefer to pay rent to their in-group (ie. parents/family) / have their children pay rent to them.

    5. Attitudes towards their children: Almost 50% of OzBargainers would allow their children to stay home for free (whatever their own post-18 experiences) and about 40% would ask for rent. Only 4 OzBargainers would kick their children out.

    6. What OzBargainers experience when they were young (eg. they stayed home for free), is likely the same experience their children will have (eg. their children will also stay for free). This assumes OzBargainers have children or plan on having them.

    7. A possible outlier to the above are those OzBargainers who were forced out by their parents when they were young, but wouldn't do the same thing to their children (opting to ask for rent instead).

    Comparisons with Whirlpool

    1. While Ozbargainers lean more towards rent-free accommodation or with rent, for their children, Whirlpoolers lean more towards paying rent or kicking them out.

    2. Like OzBargainers, what Whirlpoolers experience will also be what their children experiences (see point 6). So if you're unlucky enough to be born from a Whirlpooler's vagina, you'd be well advised to start planning for your dystopian homeless future now and start saving money now (Step 1: Make an account at OzBargain. Step 2: Join ING Direct with competitive x.x% high interest saving accounts and x% cashback for PayWave purchases. Step 3: ???. Step 4: Profit.).

    Improvements

    1. While the survey administrator (me) received complaints about how the poll had too many options, I've come to realise it was still too few. There needs to be an extra set of options differentiating between OzBargainers who moved out or paid rent (by choice/willingly or not). That's for the left side of the option. Being forced to moved out and moving out by choice are two completely different things.

    2. The right side of the option will have more improved wording. Future polls will have the following right side options:
      Past experience / and I will kick my adult children out of the house no matter what.
      Past experience / and I will kick my adult children out of the house if they don't pay rent.
      Past experience / and I will allow them to stay rent-free unconditionally, with voluntary rent, or move out by choice.
      Past experience / and I'm an Asian father or mother and THEY MUST STAY HOME. Be a good boy/girl Wang/Xiaomei and take care of your oldies 'k? (Joke option)

    References

    [1] Catalyst Thread: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2487152
    [2] General moving out threads 1: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/?action=search&q=move+o…
    [3] General moving out threads 2: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/?action=search&q=moving…
    [4] Net Worth of Whirlpoolians: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2403644
    [5] Whirlpoolian's Super Balance: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2388291
    [6] Anecdotal "evidence"
    [7] Interwebs

  • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2016 - 02:55

    I wouldn't move out until I get married because my parents are separated so I feel incomplete my whole life, what's the point of moving out now? to be more lonely?

    • DeafMutePretender on 10/01/2016 - 03:24

      how insulting in a job interview, the employer asked me if I'm living at home…
      I'm like so what? I still have to pay for the expenses at home.

      I'm cynical so this is what I would think that that employer is thinking:

      "Let's ask astroberryz if he lives at home or not. If he doesn't live at home then that means he probably has to pay rent because you gotta live somewhere right?"

      Gears in the employer's brain starts grinding

      "Hmm… that means he wants this job I am offering because he needs money to pay off that rent… and if he can't pay that rent then he is screwed… that means I can take advantage of his situation! I'll ask for 100% and he'll give me 110%! And if he doesn't, I'll threaten to fire him! Muahaha!"

      "So astroberryz, do you live at home?"

      "Yes. So what?"

      "Well that's the end of the interview. Thank you and we'll let you know if you're successful."

      "Yeah right."

      • garetz on 10/01/2016 - 09:12
        +1

        Who doesnt live at home ? where else would you live. Unless you are homeless of course.

  • Froot Loops on 10/01/2016 - 03:01
    +1

    2 points

    1st I am very greatful I can stay on my parents property (I pay rent) Im in my mid 20s and doing Masters of Pharmacy. I was living out of home and work, but I wanted a Career.

    My mother helps me out abit, with undercharging me market rent and helping me with the odd loan for uni (I do pay back).

    I cant wait to finish and buy a house (leave home)

    I look forward to being able to payback the fact they let me stay when they are old. I already saving to buy a mum a New VW golf to say thanks for getting me thru Uni.

    I think if the Young adult is a drop kick, then yeh, send them packing, but if i parents did that to me, I wouldnt be able to get a great education (and a $109,000 Hecs debt)

    My 2nd point is there is no rentals or houses for sale and seriously the prices are high, it might be because I dont know, people in there 40s and 50s brought 1, 2, 3 or more properties for themselves leaving shortages.

    Concluding, I cannot afford local rent and even shared rent is high, My uni cost are much higher than a standard student (due to level and Hecs not covering alot). I tried going rural, but my course are major arent suported. I really am greatful to my parents and think this above is quiet narrow minded as we arent one.
    Thanks

  • GameChanger on 10/01/2016 - 03:57
    +1

    To move out at 18 is harsh imo, you have no real skills after school/ many don't have the maturity either.

    I suppose with Centrelink money its doable if you rent a room in a house, but otherwise you need to have a part time job with lots of hours.

    With jobs getting more scarce I think most parents should let their kids stay longer. I think interesting times lay ahead for Australia, as I don't see our lifestyle is compatible with globalization and technology.

  • shamid202 on 10/01/2016 - 07:52

    adopt a child and use it as a toy for a while then when it grew up you can return it or leave it, its the best option for evils

  • catichau on 10/01/2016 - 07:53
    -1

    i brought my kids up from a very early age to have life skills,and money skills. therefore first left home at 17, and BOUGHT his first house, saved his own deposit, was not a high income earner, infact he was a first year apprentice!, at 20 he bought his second house. He is now 21, and looking at buying third within the next 1-2 years, and only just completed his apprenticeship
    the next traveled from the age of 18, returned, saved a deposit and BOUGHT her first home at the age of 19. (just last month) again she only a low income earner
    I charged my kids bored from the moment high school finished, my kids were not allowed to live at home unless they had a job or full time study (once leaving school).
    so yes in my opinion kids are very ready to leave home at 18, they are adults and should be treated this way.
    I have always been there to give them guidance and support (but some of the best lessons learnt are errors they make on their own)
    I could ramble on about this for hours as I feel every single young person has the oppurtunity to create their own life path!

    • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2016 - 08:36
      -1

      apprentice

      what trade?

      • catichau on 11/01/2016 - 20:52

        butcher apprentice

    • Roll Eyes on 10/01/2016 - 12:42

      How did they save their own deposit after only working a year or so, on apprentice wages, as well as being charged board by you?

      (serious question btw, im interested to know)

      • smithydll on 10/01/2016 - 20:20
        +2

        This is possible for a small number of people, for many the struggle is real and is affected by life choices.

        Regional or metro? In some metro regions the median house price is 11x the median wage. So catichau's kids don't live in Sydney.
        What type of loan, was a mortgage broker used?
        An interest only mortgage is an way to reduce the deposit needed and increase the loan size, but is riskier. The risk equation makes it more popular for investors.
        Some lenders are happy to lend based on the current < 5% interest rates, but currently the big banks want you to be able service 8% interest.
        Some lenders are happy to give you a loan with next to no deposit. Big banks will let you get away with 10% which for a low value property may only be 30k. Some lenders will let you have an even smaller deposit. The thing is if your deposit is less than 20% you get slugged with mortgage insurance, but that goes straight on the loan so it's "invisible" but hurts your net future value.
        It is almost certain these kids are facing mortgage stress (> 50% take home pay services the loan).

        If you let your kids stay at home until they have a 20% deposit, at no cost to you (other than food, washing). You help them by keeping value in the family which can be used to help you in your senior years. There is a reason why wealthy families keep all their wealth within the family.

        tldr; Move to regional areas and make the riskiest financial decisions.

      • catichau on 11/01/2016 - 20:56

        my kids had part time jobs through school and chose to save a LOT of what they earnt. They were excited to start their own lives and move out early (by choice). I told them if they made sacrifices early they would reep the benefits later on. they rarely bought take-away, packed their own lunches etc for work, bought cars which were fuel efficient, and generally did all the things that helped save money.
        yes, we live in a regional area, however, they would have just bought investment properties in cheaper areas if they could not have afforded to olive in it. No they do not have mortgage stress as they bought the renovators delight, did not have any expectations of having anything flash.
        they saved 15% deposit, and I helped with the final 5%, but even without that they would have qualified for loan and just paid the mortgage insurance

    • DeafMutePretender on 12/01/2016 - 01:23

      i brought my kids up from a very early age to have life skills,and money skills. therefore first left home at 17, and BOUGHT his first house, saved his own deposit, was not a high income earner, infact he was a first year apprentice!, at 20 he bought his second house. He is now 21, and looking at buying third within the next 1-2 years

      Is your family, by any chance, the top 0.01%?

      • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2016 - 17:52

        I have no idea where this poster lives but I am actually in the 0.01% of the country and I can't identify them so I don't think they are.

  • garetz on 10/01/2016 - 09:07
    +3

    Do you want your children to have the best possible chance of succeeding at life ? Then you should let them stay home and save as much money as possible, so they can buy a place with less debt than otherwise and it gives them a huge head start in life.

    • mrmachine on 10/01/2016 - 23:49
      -2

      It's the opposite of a head start. Independent adult life starts when you move out of your parents home. Staying to save money only delays that by several years. You won't notice the difference in having an extra 100k in the bank at an early age until you retire (get a few more years out of it), and that money can't buy you more time. Best to get out there and start living your life as soon as possible. Succeeding in life does not equal having a huge lump sum of cash in the bank effectively gifted to you by your parents.

      • DeafMutePretender on 12/01/2016 - 01:25

        It's the opposite of a head start. Independent adult life starts when you move out of your parents home.

        Maybe, but the only thing that changes is that instead of being dependent on your parents, you become dependent on your employer.

        You won't notice the difference in having an extra 100k in the bank at an early age until you retire (get a few more years out of it)

        In all honesty, I wouldn't mind having an extra 100k. Could you spare some?

        Succeeding in life does not equal having a huge lump sum of cash in the bank effectively gifted to you by your parents.

        How do you succeed in life?

        • mrmachine on 12/01/2016 - 20:09

          You succeed in life by overcoming personal challenges and achieving personal goals. Just living at home with your parents is not very challenging. It's a pretty low bar to set for yourself. Not much personal satisfaction to be gained. It's not really going to open your eyes to new experiences, or open doors to new opportunities.

          But if it worked for you and your kids, good for you.

  • srr on 10/01/2016 - 12:21

    No option for me - went studying to another city but was given (small) money for living until was able to earn enough. Will do the same: support my children, but will encourage independence.

  • centrelink on 10/01/2016 - 13:44

    When I turned 18, I wanted some independence from my parents and I when I told them of my plans, man they went apeshit on me. Started to cuss me and demanded I pay them rent now if I wanted to live in their house. At the time, I did not even have a job and they were always trying to make me feel miserable.

    My mum held my life savings and "somehow" it magically disappeared from "rent".

    Gawd I could not wait to leave the house forever and never return.

    Now I'm 30 and got my own home paid off with another 2 houses rented house.. haven't spoken to my parents in years.. so yeah.. fk parents, I ignore all their emails and phone calls (blocked them).

    I won't even be attending their funeral, too bad they are immune to cancer so it will be a long while.

    • sillyguy on 10/01/2016 - 14:45
      +3

      I am glad you're very successful at a very young age. Can I ask if you're a parent now?

    • tomleonhart on 11/01/2016 - 10:33

      Lol. What a nice way of saying thank you for raising you up for 18 years though.

    • Randxyz123 on 11/01/2016 - 16:55

      My mum held my life savings and "somehow" it magically disappeared from "rent".

      Sorry but how did she withdraw money from your life savings?

      • centrelink on 12/01/2016 - 13:23

        She held the money physically.

    • Lancerx on 11/01/2016 - 19:42
      +1

      karma mate…just remember that without them you won't be where you are now regardless if you like it or not..money is not everything..

      • centrelink on 12/01/2016 - 13:24

        Actually money is everything in this world. The moment you step out your door its all about money. You can justify life anyway you want to make yourself feel better but in the end everything is out there to grab into your pockets.

        • Lancerx on 12/01/2016 - 16:34

          I pray for your souls..

        • centrelink on 12/01/2016 - 17:11

          @Droid11: Whats to pray, I value life and enjoyment as well. Just because I am aware of the corrupted world that depends on a number doesn't make me any difference. Just like those mastercards ads. Preying on our self-worth to make ourselves feel better for spending money.

          The quicker people realise it, the more wealthier they become. Too bad I've been dirt poor for 80% of my life, wish I realised it sooner because if there was a choice to be either poor or well off. I would choose definitely choose well off.

        • Lancerx on 12/01/2016 - 17:39

          @spn: You can choose to be well off and have a good family relationship at the same time. Ask the richest man in the world, I'm sure he will tell you the same. Just don't chase money blindly, until you lost touch with closed ones. It's easy to justify monetary gain, but it can never be the only thing in your life. You don't bring away your wealth once you left this world, just saying..don't wanna get too theological here. I'm not here to criticize you, just wish society could see one less broken family.

          Trust me, I'm actually around your ages too, and I have the same financial situation as yours, but I always felt empty without family by my side even though I make at least 200k a year away from family. I since sold my very profitable regional business, and be close to my family. I might earn lesser now, but I feel happier for sure.

        • centrelink on 12/01/2016 - 17:42

          @Droid11: Yeah, I always know that I will regret my actions in future, but they must be punished even if it has to hurt me too. They must know the enduring pain I felt in my younger years and I am not here to screw around.

          I am a guy who will return pain 10 times back what they gave me.

        • Lancerx on 12/01/2016 - 18:32

          @spn: It's not up to you to punish your parents, it's our job as kids to respect them no matter how shit they are. Easier said than done I guess (human nature). I know sometimes parents can be shit like druggies, drunks etc (thankfully not mine) but I seen good come out from mates from those background too. You gotta obviously stand up to what's right, the rest the authority or "someone" can deal with them . You don't need to buy them a mansion to live in or pay off all their bills etc, but at least you can't let them beg on street or died on street etc with clear conscience..that's all I'm saying , might be a bit too extreme, but sounds like you're ready to go there..

        • DeafMutePretender on 13/01/2016 - 06:26
          +1

          @Droid11:

          It's not up to you to punish your parents, it's our job as kids to respect them no matter how shit they are.

          Off-topic to this thread but I'm going to have to disagree here. Respect is something that is earned, not freely given. Parents (or anybody) have the choice to do respectable things or non-respectable things. If they do the former, then great, if the latter, then they can F off.

          That's why someone who is not blood-related to you can potentially be a greater mother/father than a mother/father that is blood-related.

        • sillyguy on 13/01/2016 - 19:20

          Is investment banking your line of work?

        • centrelink on 13/01/2016 - 23:15

          @Droid11:
          It is up to me, otherwise there is a law that says I shoudn't. its not all bad though there are perks..

          For example when you play online games and tells me parents to get cancer and die, I would always go "HAHAHAH JOKES ON YOU I ALREADY HATE MY PARENTS! PLEASE I WANT YOU TO RAPE THEM AS WELL".

    • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2016 - 17:55

      I up voted you. People without family issues don't understand.
      Just because someone is related to you doesn't make them a good person and certainly doesn't mean having them in your life is healthy or beneficial.

      And the idea that because they are old you should be guilted to see them? No. Perhaps people are alone because they are just evil - they are the constant variable, not everyone else.

      Good luck with your life :)

      • DeafMutePretender on 13/01/2016 - 06:27
        +1

        Oh, you might appreciate my comment (see above).

        • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2016 - 08:56

          :) I do. Appreciation shown

  • usmanyousaf on 10/01/2016 - 13:46
    +1

    Well everyone here is to grab a bargain. Why shouldn't we bargain their residency(if possible)

  • sillyguy on 10/01/2016 - 14:42
    +10

    Side note, as a result of kicking your children out of the house, they'll be putting you in age-cared centre with minimal visits when you get old. Karma is a bitch…

    My kids can stay with me for as long as they like and can move out on their own wills.

    Even my sisters are living with me rent-free now, and we live in Sydney LOL.

    I love bargain but when it comes to family I'd like to give bargains to family members if I can. Money and assets can come and go but we only have one family.

    Ultimately it depends on the cultures of how people treating their family I believe.

    • [Deactivated] on 10/01/2016 - 14:46
      +1

      I agree with all your points. When you get old, all you care about is your children coming to visit you and the good ones will look after you when you get old.

  • ronnknee on 10/01/2016 - 15:29
    +1

    I was never asked to pay rent but I do proactively pay for utilities like gas, electricity, water, internet/phone, council fees etc. In the future, I probably won't force my children to pay for rent/utilities but I would be happy if they proactively did as well.

  • fr33loader on 10/01/2016 - 15:58
    +3

    My parents never kicked me out. I paid rent voluntarily, eventually i pad for the mortgage, electricity, etc.. Heck, first month of my work I was still getting allowance from them. They are awesome.

    We only separated because they migrated to the US and me to Australia.

    I always tell my children this. No pressure, but they are expected to start building their future on that. Until then, let's all have fun together!

    • leiiv on 11/01/2016 - 02:08

      Until then, let's all have fun together!

      Very nice!

  • FatBlanket on 10/01/2016 - 18:19
    -2

    You're doing your kid a favour by charging them rent or nudging them out. All my friends who never had to pay rent and were allowed to live at home as long as they want have not turned out well adjusted. Best thing to do would be to charge them rent but put it all aside for the kids house deposit.

    • Powershopz on 11/01/2016 - 10:32
      +5

      Anecdotal evidence.

      I know lots of people who moved out of home when they were 18 and don't have their shit together at nearly 30.

      I know people who moved out of home home when they were 18 and are doing great.

      I know people who didn't move out until they were 22-23 and are doing great.

      It's not a black and white scenario.

  • Multiverse on 10/01/2016 - 23:48

    The economic shift in recent times makes it harder for the majority of people. The lack of jobs and cost of living in this moment increases the chances of the family staying together under one roof for a longer period.

    I firmly believe that a good family sticks together and communicates even through the toughest times just like the OzBargain family!

    • mrmachine on 10/01/2016 - 23:56
      +1

      Every generation thinks they have it harder than the last. In truth we are on the cusp of the biggest generational transfer of wealth in history. Kids today are getting their inheritance before their parents die. They are getting cars and houses bought for them. And they are getting free rent and food and cleaning and cooking.

      • Multiverse on 11/01/2016 - 00:23

        @mrmachine

        Good point regarding the transfer of wealth. It seems to be very common in these times.

        Gifting family members money can create so many negatives.

        The other side of the coin is that if the parents have little or no money and jobs are scarce it can be very difficult. It's worth looking at both sides as they play a major role in Australian society.

        • mrmachine on 12/01/2016 - 20:14

          @Multiverse

          There are also a lot of stats like "70% of wealthy families lose their wealth by the second generation, 90% by the third".

          Now, it might be different for "wealthy" as in millions to burn vs just well off, but I think there's some general truth in it. If you didn't personally earn it, you won't appreciate or value it as much as if you had. You might still appreciate and value it, but not as much.

  • FittyFitty on 11/01/2016 - 00:45

    Other.

  • uqup on 11/01/2016 - 02:51

    I left home when I turned 17 for university, however my parents paid for my residential college.

  • boomramada on 11/01/2016 - 10:40

    Out of the topic, you can' really compare OzBargainers with Whirlpoolian's, most Whirlpoolian's earn more than 100K and work in IT ;)
    Reference, http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/ :)

  • resisting the urge on 11/01/2016 - 12:44
    -4

    Good subject, bad poll.

    You left many options off the poll. and the only way to say 'other' is to add them in the comments where they do not form part of your stats.

    If you are not prepared to live with them at 18, that is one thing, but why should anyone else have to, if you won't?

    Also, I have to ask, what's with all the swearing? Is this how you speak publicly or are you trying to speak down to us peasants? Or does this just mean you have real issues dealing with the attitude of your now adult children and how they are responding your expectations atm? Either way it is not at all helpful in getting valid statistical summaries from your respondents. How many are turned away by all the swear words? Do you only want responses from people that respond positively to your profanity, in this instance, or are 'with you' in what you think is your 'language'? Swearing has many meanings, can be taken in many ways, and is why so many people like to use it as a way of taking out their frustrations on the world. And at best it is frustration, at worst an attempt to 'dog whistle' some within a group. What you have does is bias the poll outcome completely and in the most unexpected of ways.

    Anyway, your language and motivations aside, kicking kids out at 18 is a far bigger issue symptomatic all kinds of things, and you won't get any solution to them unless you look at the root cause. And if it a problem challenging you right now you are a little late, so will need to innovate your way to a solution. Complaining/polling the challenges this symptom presents you amongst sympathetic others in the same boat is a complete waste of time.

    If you ask me, children should have the right to stay at home, free or otherwise, until they choose to leave. And yes, this may mean forever! Why? It would force parents to accept a little more responsibility and thus bring them up better, regardless of whether the pregnancy was an accident or not. Perhaps then, for reasons of self-preservation if nothing less, the children would get taught some manners (eventually). Perhaps then they would not start stealing or stabbing others for greed or kicks. If parents do no more than bear and physically nourish children before kicking them out of home, many will only take and abuse the world they are lucky to be a part of. And if an 18 year old is nice to be around, others will ask them to move out with them, either as flatmates or by partnering up, instead of leeching at home, glued to social media in their smelly rooms, getting unhealthy watching movies and depraved p0rn.

    You know it's true: Our young watch instinctively from day one, their parents lead by example whether they know it or not.

    And if parents choose to supply the kids stimulation by plugging them into the TV (drug of a nation), on average, 3.5 hours/day complete with >1h of advertising and worse, gambling, retribution dramas, violence, greed, etc. Worse, many sit them at the Devil's nipple (Internet mind pollution, aka Google- the quickest way to find humanity's worst, etc.) with 'insufficient guidance' where the TV fails to passify. Or they just didn't notice the kids were getting a bad example at school, didn't take note of the quality of their friends and peers, didn't notice them join gangs, become thugs or druggies and hang out with all the no-hopers. Also other aspects such as generally taking interest in their development would also help prevent the stupidity of drugs, not learning how to work, picking up poor behaviour, etc. (inc. swearing instead of saying what they think in a comprehend-able way (like words).

    OK now that is a bit over the top, but it helps make the point; we are nothing more than a product of our parents until we take what we're given and do something with it. In what ways should others be responsible for others' behaviours, or is it up to society (you and I and the state) to bring up, look after, hold the hands of, discipline and even rehabilitate another parent's poor progeny? Is it the parents responsibility, or a shared effort between all of us?

    Some of us can swim but many sink when give very little guidance growing up.

    If you do okay with your children, why would is a problem with them staying at home? Why are they not in sync with your plan in the first place, where did that go wrong and what have you done about it? This was one of the (many) risks you accepted when you had them. Perhaps share the challenges you face, why they happened, and then get some help rather than bleat about how much money they do or do not provide back for your efforts.

    • DeafMutePretender on 12/01/2016 - 01:46
      +2

      You left many options off the poll.

      Yes, I addressed that issue under the "Improvements" heading.

      If you are not prepared to live with them at 18, that is one thing, but why should anyone else have to, if you won't?

      Huh, what? I'm not telling anybody to do anything.

      Also, I have to ask, what's with all the swearing?

      Are you referring to "F off" and "bitches"? Because I just felt like it.

      Is this how you speak publicly or are you trying to speak down to us peasants?

      That's not necessarily a mutually exclusive statement. Suppose I publicly speak like how I wrote in the first post AND I also condescendingly speak down to peasants in real life. So?

      Or does this just mean you have real issues dealing with the attitude of your now adult children and how they are responding your expectations atm?

      Oooh, look at Mr. Internet Psychologist over here!

      Either way it is not at all helpful in getting valid statistical summaries from your respondents. How many are turned away by all the swear words?

      Perhaps the swearing/my tone of writing is not conducive to the statistical gathering but hey, I'm not being paid to do this and if people are thin-skinned enough to not participate, it's no skin of my back.

      If you ask me, children should have the right to stay at home, free or otherwise, until they choose to leave.

      Okay, it wasn't until I got to this sentence that I realised you completely misinterpreted my first post. Here's the thing: I agree with all or most of what you written. My first post was written in a hyperbolic and casual manner while taking a sympathetic view of adult children who were forced out of the family home by mere virtue of their age. Or to look at it another way, the first post is an attack on the commonly accepted "wisdom" that forcing children out of the house is necessarily always a good thing.

      Just to clarify again, I agree with most or all of what you written and I would suggest that you read the entire first post again, but this time reading between the lines.

  • chefdillu on 11/01/2016 - 12:47
    +7

    What you sow is what you reap, We really need to learn from the Italians & the Indians, These guys value family , Money is not important,
    you never ask kids to leave , you live as one family and once your kids get married ,if they wish to move to another house its their choice, The parents even help their kids out with cars & deposits for new houses.
    and when the parents get old they too take care of them the same way as they did for them, that's family mate
    Its the Aussie / Pommy culture to take money from kids or kick them out when they grow that's why all the old people here have no one to look after them
    Respect your parents & your Kids will respect you (KARMA)

    • Lancerx on 12/01/2016 - 00:44
      +1

      Sooo true…exactly why our society now is so screwed up…and nursing home expenses on taxpayers through the roof..

    • DeafMutePretender on 13/01/2016 - 06:29

      We really need to learn from the Italians & the Indians, These guys value family , Money is not important,

      Good thing you didn't mention Chinese lol, then I would've posited a counter-argument.

  • [Deactivated] on 11/01/2016 - 14:00
    +5

    asians are forced to stay home until they become doctor

    • JimB on 11/01/2016 - 14:50

      lol…

    • rgr on 13/01/2016 - 23:55

      ROFL

  • Shwayne on 11/01/2016 - 14:14
    +2

    If you already fully intend to kick your children out when they turn 18, don't have any.

    I understand why you might want to kick out children that turn out a certain way by the time they turn 18, but you might have wonderful children that are a pleasure to be around and it makes a LOT of financial sense for both of you to not have them move out (you know they won't be struggling, they give you sufficient rent etc.).

  • SuperC on 11/01/2016 - 14:54
    +1

    I lived with my dad until the age of 23, when I bought an apartment with my fiance. I never paid my dad rent, as he said he didn't need the money, what he did make me do was put an amount of money into savings, in the year before I left, I was saving $1600 a month. Eventually, that "rent" became the deposit for my first home.

  • JimB on 11/01/2016 - 14:54
    +1

    Myself, never paid anything while living at home. However, I did pay bills/grocery once I got a job so wasn't sponging off my parents forever.

    Never kicked out but often invited back to live when I moved out.

    While I would like my kids to move out for their own independence and personal development, like my parents, want my kids to stay at home to be able to save a deposit for purchase their first house. The way things are, unless you live in bumfukville it's very difficult to save for/buy a house if you're renting.

  • Randxyz123 on 11/01/2016 - 16:52
    +3

    Sorry but No parent should ever kick a child out of their house. That is completely messed up if you do that.

    I don't even think any reasonable parent should ask for money from their young son/daughter unless they have good reason to.

    Frankly the only good reason I can think of is for financial reasons.

  • nephilim on 11/01/2016 - 17:15
    +1

    I don't think parents should kick them out but should atleast make them aware of alternatives, sit down on gumtree at room share and other sites. Kids shouldn't be able to take advantage in the way some do.

  • Thenarrator on 11/01/2016 - 21:47

    if i earn 100000 a year, i move out..

  • DrDollar on 11/01/2016 - 21:57

    I left home when I was 18 of my own accord, as did my 3 siblings. Having said that, my parents were very accommodating and I am sure we could have stayed as long as we liked (my parents were not well off).

    My parents taught the importance of independence and taught us how to be independent (cook, clean, money, make the best of things when life is shit). Hence moving out of home and understanding how to survive was not a big thing.

    A strict kick-out at 18 perhaps implies the parents have not focused enough on their offspring's education to prevent the offspring's motivation to stay put.

    Of course however, things are not clear-cut. Nothing is black or white, there are shades of grey. People are all different, I am sure there are some kids that would take advantage even at the parent's best efforts.

    The solution… How long is a piece of string?

  • Sleeken on 12/01/2016 - 03:44
    +2

    I'm 24 and still at home (still studying), working casually and at home free. I still contribute to the household in many ways (cooking/cleaning/gardening) and budget/save all my income. Moving out would put me under a lot of financial stress and my parents are happy for me to be here for as long as I want, until I'm going to start my own family or thereabouts.

    I don't think moving out at 18 in itself teaches you anything that can't be learnt through proper parenting or at an later time in life. Some of my friends went "off the rails" living on their own - live very wastefully and have made destructive choices that may not have happened if they were at home. Others who had to move to study at 18 quickly learnt to budget, be responsible and independent, though had a real struggle doing so - they tell me to enjoy living at home whilst I'm here. I can't understand wanting to kick your kids out (get rid of?) at such a young age, doesn't show much family closeness or caring.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2016 - 09:55
    -1

    at 18 they start paying $50 rent a week
    at 21 they start paying $150 a week and you put their $100 into a bank account for them to move out
    at 25 you kick them out unless they are pregnant or somehting

    • DeafMutePretender on 13/01/2016 - 06:32

      at x they start paying

      That's nice. What if your children doesn't have a job, despite genuinely trying to get one, or has a casual job that offers barely any hours, or loses their job?

      • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2016 - 13:17

        I dunno you cut them some slack? Maybe just drop back to $150.
        It's just a general guide that my parents used. When we couldn't get a job my mum would help us with our resume and drive us around, she was fully aware if we couldn't find work because she was there with us. I honestly wouldn't describe myself as a particularly appealing employee but even on the dole $50 is affordable.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2016 - 10:59

    I stopped reading when you said "supermodel wife".

    I'm in my early 20s, can live at home, never pay rent, no chores, no contribution to food etc.
    I think it depends on the family. My family did this so we can focus on our careers and education without worrying about anything. That's what all parents want.
    We also travel and work but save the money for ourselves for our futures.

    I moved out for the novelty and experience. Certainly no obligation to.

    But hey I'm just a female so my goal is to be a supermodel wife.

  • z0s0 on 12/01/2016 - 11:38
    +2

    Can't find my category in there: "My parents didn't force me out or ask me to pay rent, but I left at 19. Will encourage mine to leave and will charge rent."

    • JimmyF on 12/01/2016 - 23:48

      Agreed…..

  • Blottski on 12/01/2016 - 23:22
    +1

    My old lady kicked me out when I was 18. Best thing she's ever done.

    Bought my first place when I was 18 with the girlfriend. Sold it after it tripling in value.

    what's the old saying? You grow up quick when you grow up poor….. We had to beg borrow and steal to get the deposit for that 40k unit at the time. Both of us were on crap money in our jobs but we made it work…

    • DeafMutePretender on 13/01/2016 - 06:34
      +1

      Bought my first place when I was 18 with the girlfriend. Sold it after it tripling in value.

      How much did you pay for the house and what year was this?

  • DeafMutePretender on 13/01/2016 - 06:01

    POLL RESULTS (AS OF Jan 13st)

    Well, this blew up since reaching the front page. Last time I checked, votes were about 100, now they're about 500. However, the trends and percentages haven't really changed so the conclusions remain the same.

    We see that the clear majority of OzBargainers had the benefit of free post-18 accommodation from their families or if not, then they paid rent. Unfortunately, some OzBargainers did get forced out by their family and they probably weren't happy about that since they wouldn't do the same to their children.

    The few underage OzBargainers on here seem to have their heads screwed on straight: all of them would let their future children stay for free.

    Moral of the story: "life experience/maturity" aside and those are things that are still debatable, what's not debatable is that saving money instead of paying that same amount of rent to landlords are one of the biggest bargains anyone can get. Ask yourself: would you rather put that $500 per month into your or your parent's bank account or the landlord's/fat cat banker's?

    One last thing that I haven't talked about yet and I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. There appears to be those who were kicked out of the house when they were young and are bitter about it, so they try to emotionally salvage what they can out of the situation by asserting that moving out of the house when young is the one and only way of gaining life experience and maturity. No-one, least of all I, would ever say "every person must stay at home when they finish school because it's the only way, no exceptions". We recognise that every person has their own unique situation so the optimum decision for them might not be the same for someone else. Not so with the forced early-leavers: "I moved out early! Everyone should do the same too! Because I did!", "Harden the F up, princess!" and other useless platitudes.

    It's almost analogous to the circumcision debate: Those who argue in favour of male circumcision often already received the snip without their consent, so they're already emotionally invested in the arguments. Those who have never been circumcised and those who stayed at home rent-free are both similar in the sense that they had choice.

  • readyState on 13/01/2016 - 09:55
    +1

    My mother (widowed when I was 19) supported me till I got my first job. She could do this as my parents had planned ahead for kids education and she had a decent job. She was independent and capable and taught me by example.
    I would also like to support my child through university and till he has a decent job. Post that, I would encourage him to travel and work in different countries and live independently.

  • Timothy-Mineworker on 13/01/2016 - 19:11

    i moved out for a while then came home, never kicked out, and i think its wrong to kick children out, teach them the things needed to know like taxes, living on a dreadful budget

  • Jackson on 13/01/2016 - 22:48

    This is way too long for me to read every comment to see if anyone has said this, but you don't need so many options in the survey. Really all it comes down to as a parent is either

    1. I will make an active effort to allow my children to grow up, increasing responsibility and decreasing their reliance on me as they get older

    2. I don't care if they don't experience the world and will let them be completely free including free of responsibility

    Truthfully there could be a centre option between these, but as long as you don't shirk your responsibilities as a parent by not/avoiding parenting then you are on the right track. If it means that you think that you need to kick them out to get them self reliant, then I guess there are circumstances that call for it, but you can't make a blanket rule, there's a thousand ways to teach responsibility and self reliance

  • Lockieasy on 14/01/2016 - 01:20

    I moved out of state aged 17 when I went to uni then moved back home aged 21 when I finished my degree. Lived mostly rent-free for 5 years but would help do chores around the house. I now live in my own place.

    I think asking your children to pay rent or kicking them out does nothing other than shoots them in the foot financially for no plausible reason.

  • gimli on 14/01/2016 - 07:23

    Who cares

    • DeafMutePretender on 14/01/2016 - 15:19

      534 people at time of writing, and that's not including people who made a post but didn't vote and people who neither voted nor posted yet still care.

      • gimli on 14/01/2016 - 16:56

        ok

  • Damnsmart on 14/01/2016 - 11:30

    This is what i have been coached…"parents are to give the best to their kids, and kids are to make their parents proud of". I remained at home, and i would let my kids to stay at home.

    In disagreement, i would prefer them to stay home and me going out….

    by the way, I am an Indian.

  • User167511 on 14/01/2016 - 13:28

    Excellent subject, well framed and formatted and great to read the frank responses.

    I've spent 30 years as an expat in Asia, now returned to Oz. Interesting views on cultural aspects and how we view others and they view us. Asian's typically live together and even children sleep with parents till 10 or 11 in some cases. They cannot understand why our oldies live on their own and feel we are cold and cruel in this regard. Their business model for family is different to ours. They marry to have kids to look after them in old age. Woe betide any woman who is still single or childless at 40. Their system doesn't cater for that demographic well except extended family comes into play. There is little or no govt social security, so the whole thing becomes cultural.

    Having said that they do everything together and everyone chips in. Kids contribute (as I did 40 years ago - my first salary at 16 - I paid 25% of it to my parents). Now my wife stops me taking rent from our daughter who needs to learn the value of money better. I'm frustrated by this even though she herself had to pay rent to her mother when young. Our daughter has become a bit of a bludger tbh and I am not happy about it one bit. After reading this I am now charged up again and will have another 'Rent rant". I don't think I could bring myself to kick her out though.

    Keep up the great posts.

    • SlickMick on 14/01/2016 - 23:08

      I believe the only reason for kicking her out is if she refuses to accept the house rules. Charging board is one way to ensure she makes a contribution to the family rather than taking you for granted, but I believe house work is a more effective way, and provides I way for her to establish herself financially. If she's irresponsible with money, than maybe the loving thing to do is take it from her. Like the backlash the government gets for doing this with some Aboriginal communities, it would be a last resort. (I'm not so sure that paying rent or being broke actually teaches anything.)

  • DeafMutePretender on 15/01/2016 - 01:15

    Thread has dropped off the front page with the total of respondents being 539.

    See you in next year's survey with improved options.

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