Is It All in The Name?

AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 12:06

Hi,

I need some advise. I am an engineering graduate who has been applying for TONS of jobs. Not kidding, by tons, I mean like almost a 100 jobs. I submit my application, and get rejected within a few days/weeks/months for everything. I've had my resume and cover letter checked by my career counsellors, got them fixed, continue applying, get MORE rejections, back to career counsellors, and they think my resume and cover letter is now very good and "employable" yet nothing has changed! I also have some work experience, although it's not in a technical role. Mind you, I don't mass submit general resumes and cover letters. I rewrite each cover letter to tailor to their skill requirements and modify my resume to fit their bill each time as well

The worst problem I'm facing is even getting to an interview. Employers don't even proceed my applications to the next stage when I clearly fit the requirements of what they're looking for. I can totally understand if I make it to an interview, screw it up big time, lack technical knowledge, or my personality just totally does not fit into their companies culture, etc. But the fact that they do not even proceed me to the next stage is what's ticking me off.

So this is where the title of this post comes in. I'm Asian, and have a VERY Asian sounding name. I don't have an English name, and I like sticking to my original name because I didn't think it matters. But now that I am at my wit's end, the only thing I can think of that is stopping me from getting an interview is my name.

What do you guys think? Is it really all in the name? Should I give myself an English name (even though all my academic transcripts, etc) doesn't have an English name?

Any advise will be appreciated!

Education & Work

Comments

  • ProjectZero on 05/02/2015 - 16:33

    So it isn't just me who seem to be having issues landing an interview… I have the same issue, on all my documents, I have my Chinese name as it is the only name on my birth certificate.

    As such, I use my Chinese name when applying for jobs, and under it I put "Preferred name". No response whatsoever from the places I send my cover letter and CV to. might take the opportunity to legally add my English name now… so much effort >.>

    -EDIT-

    Holy crap… $174 to change your name in NSW…

    • AssamLaksa on 05/02/2015 - 16:56
      +4

      I think everyone's suggestion isn't to legally change your name, but to apply for jobs with a pseudonym. Also because changing names isn't guaranteed to land you an interview/job

      • ProjectZero on 05/02/2015 - 16:58

        I always thought you had to use the name on your documents when applying for jobs.

        Guess I'll give it a shot for my next application.

        • tanoshiiki on 05/02/2015 - 21:46

          Only at the accreditations check (if there is one) and contract singing stages. The legal stages.

  • SupeNintendoChalmers on 05/02/2015 - 16:45
    +4

    My old boss was the opposite.

    He'd specifically target and hire people with Asian and Indian sounding names because he believed they are more 'docile'

    What a d……

    • ProjectZero on 05/02/2015 - 16:48
      +1

      lol docile… he'll love me then /sarcasm

  • pernunz on 05/02/2015 - 16:48

    It is my understanding that (at least in South Australia) if anyone knows you by a certain name, and they call you that name, that is a legal name. You can also have multiple legal names. For the purposes of a job application, you could put a different name (alias) and it would still be acceptable, without needing to legally change your name.

    If my name is Peter, then I could put on my resume that my name is Paul if people know me as Paul. If the police stopped me and asked my name, I could say it was Paul. Again, this applies in South Australia, but not necessarily in all states.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 17:24
      +1

      Uh, I don't think you can tell the police what you'd prefer to be called or what your mates at the pub know you as.

      • cypher67 on 05/02/2015 - 17:36

        Youtube a guy named Ron White, he is a comedian that has a good story about how he officially became known as Tater Salad

  • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 17:29
    +1

    Are these all engineering specific jobs?

    Isn't there currently a massive over saturation of qualified engineers due to the cut backs in the mining industry?

  • young_dazza on 05/02/2015 - 18:04
    +1

    I suspect that mechanical and electrical engineering jobs for new graduates would be very hard to come by in Australia. To get an engineering job without any prior experience you would need to have excellent marks.
    I work in IT and I think the majority of my colleagues are engineers rather than It graduates.
    I would suggest that you consider starting in more of a technician role first. And choose a company where there is a career path towards becoming an engineer.

  • rr64 on 05/02/2015 - 18:10
    +4

    In my opinion the problem is not likely to be racist hiring managers. I'm in the same boat as you right now Encipher but I have a pretty typical sounding European name.
    Even entry level jobs for graduates of engineering disciplines are too few right now, it's getting a bit ridiculous.

  • nashB on 05/02/2015 - 18:59

    I hope you've got your contact details correct in your resume (I'm just saying) :)

    • AssamLaksa on 05/02/2015 - 20:24
      +3

      Well, i've been receiving rejection emails so I'm pretty confident they're correct :/

  • imcjb on 05/02/2015 - 19:09

    People jump to the race card waaaaay too quickly and, in my experience, can have quite strong negative personality traits making them discriminate against themselves in the recruitment process.

    The whole recruitment process is about discriminating between certain applicants for whatever reason. I once asked a C-level executive about how, at his level of employment with everyone having such similar high performing resumes, volunteer this and that, qualification this and that, people were actually recruited and his answer was basically "feel and fit" within the organisation. It's not just about the resume.

    Unfortunately, it's a horrible employment market with those "popular" qualifications like law and engineering more over subscribed than ever.

    Just applying with a resume isn't going to help you stand apart. Do employment related volunteer work, cold call employers…basically things that help you stand out against the other 400 people applying for the same job.

    Good luck!

    • danb on 05/02/2015 - 19:52

      I agree. I work for a recruitment company and see many of our candidates coming through with names that would not be easily pronounced, and it doesn't matter. They don't care what nationality you are nor your name, they just care about putting forward the best candidate.

      A prime example of this is IBM, there are a lot more people of other nationalities with more difficult names then people with straight forward and easy names.

      I won't say it doesn't happen, as I'm sure it does in small businesses but any decent sized companies it wouldn't happen.

      I find it hard to believe people can still be considered racist in this day and age, especially in Australia, and find it more and more annoying seeing these kinds of posts constantly bringing in the race card. Sure you still get them, like I see it with other races too.

      My tip would be researching and modifying your cover letter and resume specifically for the company and role. May be tedious but if they are receiving tons of CVs and you are sending a generic cover letter it will most likely get pushed to the side. Even heard of stories where they just do a search looking for key words and if you don't have them they won't even look at your CV.

      • AssamLaksa on 05/02/2015 - 20:23

        I have been trying to tailor my CV and cover letter appropriately to each company, but it's not as straight forward I suppose. I usually try to relate my projects/experience with what they're doing but to no avail :(

        • imcjb on 05/02/2015 - 21:35

          Have you done volunteer or internships at companies that you want to work for? Offer to work for free, be a gopher, work experience, whatever….just to get your foot in the door.

          If you are just an average Joe in terms of resumes/work experience/references then don't expect any result other than average. Work experience, at least at the company I work for, results in the work experience placements being hired in the next round of hires if they are good enough.

          I would be asking recruiters honest questions and expecting honest answers about why you are being overlooked. As others have revealed you are now competing against veterans due to downsizings.

  • goosegog on 05/02/2015 - 19:34

    Hi Encipher,
    Do you have a good command of both the written & spoken English language? If so you should be a credit to most companies who need people with multi linguistic skills & should forward this as part of the benefits you can bring forward to the position you are applying for. Don't dwell on the racist attitude - we are a multi cultural country.
    Sell the benefits you can provide to the position you are applying for & most of all - stay positive.
    Good Luck.

    • AssamLaksa on 05/02/2015 - 20:18

      Hi goosegog,
      Totally not trying to be racist, I've just been reading some articles on how to improve one's chances of landing an interview, and stumbled across one that mentions how it's more difficult to get an interview without an English/common name and it got me thinking. I think I have a decent grasp of the English language, but I'm fairly certain I'm competing with hundreds of other applicants who has similar or a better grasp of the language than I do! Thanks for your advice :)

  • TheAviator on 05/02/2015 - 20:26

    OP, not sure if you're male or female, but I have heard reports in the past where if the industry you are trying to enter is dominated by one gender, they often reject candidates early if they are of the other gender. An example I saw was for a man whose first name was Kim, who was having trouble getting an engineering job. Changed his resume to say Mr Kim and interviews started flying in. Not sure if something similar is happening with you, perhaps you can try it?

    As for your Asian name, maybe as others have suggested if there is a shorted form you could go with, maybe placed in brackets as a sort of nickname.

    PS - I think it's completely reprehensible that an employer would select candidates on anything other than talent, but I suppose it can't hurt to give it a try and see if that's where the problem lies. Good luck :)

    EDIT: Here is an article about that Mr Kim thing I was talking about. Originally read about it in a newspaper I believe, but the story is here too http://whatwouldkingleonidasdo.tumblr.com/post/54989171152/h…

    • AssamLaksa on 05/02/2015 - 20:57

      I've heard differing views on this. There are two schools of thought in this matter:

      1. A male-dominated industry prefers males because their reasoning is well, females are inferior in capabilities etc etc <—— Basically, sexist
      2. A male-dominated industry prefers females because of the lack of said gender in the industry and they're aiming to get a gender balance <—— Also, sexist

      Note: I don't agree with either side and am just hoping employers look purely at qualifications and suitability for the role than anything else, so I don't think my gender plays a pivotal role in landing interviews. With that said though, I don't even specify my gender in my resume.

  • dbadcock on 05/02/2015 - 20:48

    Try "Steve" it's a great name that suits many personalities. We have an oriental guy at work. And I have to say, it's much easier on the tongue and remember than his proper name. It's also a good conversation starter. Embrace the new name. I'm sure you will find it easier than you think

  • LightningMcQueen on 05/02/2015 - 20:48

    I don't know how far my friend's story is true. He did mention 6 months ago that, when he applied for jobs after uni he used to get interview calls, whereas his friends with better grades never received any. He said, that could be due to him having a pure english name, even though he is asian.

  • coolfriendjoachim on 05/02/2015 - 21:10
    +1

    Pretty much every Asian person who is raised in Hong Kong/Taiwan has a "white name" they use for business in other countries. I use different variations of my name when the situation requires it. Nobody would think any differently of you if you use a "nickname" (even if it is one that you've just picked) at the top of your resume/cover letter, and list your full "birth" name later in the resume. I guarantee that many, many people are doing it. You just have to swallow your pride, unfortunately. I'm 7th generation Australian but I have a stupid name, and yeah, it does affect business dealings sometimes (people would rather just not talk to you than accidentally get your name wrong sometimes. People who I've worked with for years, still can't say it right).

  • ph4007 on 05/02/2015 - 21:11
    +3

    Encipher,

    Network dude! Network. I always say if you're not networking, you're not working. Seriously, get in touch with people you went to uni with, join industry bodies, turn up to industry events and talk to people. So many jobs don't even get advertised as internal recruitment saves companies money - 3 months salary is generally what recruiters get. So get in touch with old uni mates, anyone really that you know in the industry you want to be in. Oh and it wouldn't hurt to have an anglicised name to go by - I work in a big bank and we have so many Asian heritage staff who have "English" names and email addresses however they are recorded officially on the intranet under their birth name/name that the ATO has on file. PS this has been going in in Australia for many generations - i.e. Greek immigrants commonly changed their names in the 1950's eg Dimitrios = Jimmy, Eleftherios = Terry and so on. Easier for everyone.

  • mooboy on 05/02/2015 - 21:54

    Hi Encipher,

    I think Hikey made a very good point with:

    Give it a try and see whether anything changes. But ask yourself whether you want to work for a company that wouldn't hire you if you have a non-western name.

    I personally find it hard to believe that so many places would discriminate on just an Asian sounding name, but then I recently met a guy named Mohammed, who had some real horror stories about some of his experiences looking for work.

    At any rate, if you did choose an English name, I wouldn't worry about transcripts matching etc, as this is a very common thing as many Chinese adopt an English name in only an unofficial capacity.

  • poboy on 05/02/2015 - 22:08

    Do you want real advice that works? Give yourself an Australian name for resumes. I had an Asian friend in the same situation 4 years ago. Changed his name (not by deed poll) and bang… Interviews.

    It's less racism and more familiarity. Read the book 'persuasion influence and science'. People are more likely to respond to people who have a similar sounding name. As they are more likely to be like them. So it's less risk.

    Play the game. Change your name and get to the next level.

  • Wallyt99 on 05/02/2015 - 22:23

    The reality is that people are reluctant to hire or even interview migrants sometimes. I think that you should remember that any hint that you are not a fully dyed in the wool, naturalised 'aussie' might put some people off. They might not think of themselves as rascist - but as many have said often hiring is based on 'feel'.

    So keep your last name (and first) but use a western first name (only) on your CV. Do you list your high school? Is it overseas? Remove it.

    Also try to show that you are part of the local community - sports or other leadership roles are important to break through any racial stigma.

    Lastly - do you have any relevant experience? Did you not get an internship in your study? If the answer is no - that is likely the reason more-so than your name.

  • Scrooge McDuck on 05/02/2015 - 22:24
    +1

    Firstly, you need some advice not some "advise".

    Secondly, Asia is the largest and most diverse continent in the world, could you be more specific?

    I mean, it could be anything from Shaif Haboosh to Ramit Baldeep to Sum Ting Wong.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 22:56
      +4

      Or something really simple yet intimidating…

    • AssamLaksa on 06/02/2015 - 15:56
      +1

      Yep, i got that advice/advise thing mixed up. Sorry!

      Also, It's a Chinese name.

  • Got3Balls on 05/02/2015 - 22:35

    I pulled the trigger and officially changed my name a month after I graduated from my engineering degree. Surprisingly I got a call from a company the day it became official and the job offer a week after. However, it would not have matter because the application was under my former name.

    I did feel I was disadvantaged with a name that was difficult to pronounce and it would be frustrating to correct everyone who pronounces it incorrectly. Having said that, I still lucked out and completed 2 internships and a grad position with an unusual name. The market is tough, you should do whatever it takes to enhance your chances.

    It's likely that the biggest culprit is that you don't have any technical experience. You should try work for free for a few months and that should improve your chances.

    • AssamLaksa on 06/02/2015 - 15:59

      I've done an internship in a technical role for 3months but it was done overseas. Applying for internship is surprisingly difficult as well! But I guess I haven't tried working for free because I'm still working part time to feed my stomach and pay rent unfortunately.

  • jpv on 05/02/2015 - 22:44

    Engineering is a pretty difficult field to get into. I currently work as an Intern at one of Australia's biggest companies and the competition to get in was rather intense. I was lucky enough to meet an employee that helped me fast track the application stages. Over 2000 people applied for this position and less than 5% were accepted. It doesn't matter about your name.

    My suggestion is to continue applying for positions. Aim for the smaller companies as well. Look out to interstate places as well. My friend spent over a year looking for a position as an engineer and ended up working for NBN Co. Perseverance is vital.

    Also, I'm sure that you would've gotten at least a call back if you've applied for over 100 places.

    P.S If you use a western name, you might end up being called that for the remainder of your career.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 22:45

    Hey, I am ethnically asian but born here. My first name is soooo long people give up pronouncing it.
    My comment here would be - are you applying for only graduate jobs? They are always in hot demand as tens of thousands of uni graduates apply for them. I've only applied for 3 jobs in my life, got 2 interviews and job offers out of those. The remaining one (my first application) was guess what?? A graduate job!
    I'm also in the same industry as you and I can tell you that I.T and engineering is full of Asians/Indian people, both local and on working visas, so to dismiss you for being asian shouldn't be the major reason. You are probably competing with thousands of other Asians with better than ordinary resumes. I think getting these jobs is like winning Australian Idol.
    Have you considered applying for a job that is entry level, but in your skills area, just to get your foot in the door? This is also a good career path without the "Graduate Job" label that thousands of people apply for.
    It worked for me. I have also had 2 internal promotions and in a respectable management role now.

    • AssamLaksa on 06/02/2015 - 16:08

      I apply for junior/entry-level/graduate positions really. Basically jobs that does not say "minimum x years experience in so-and-so field"

      • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2015 - 17:53

        Other suggestions which people have mentioned is networking. Linkedin, using a Job Agency or refer a friend is a great advantage. Something different to just another resume sent to a company.
        I do believe the first full time job after uni appears hard becuase of competition, which is why I got a full time job before I graduated, in case i have nothing.

  • cpalada on 05/02/2015 - 23:20

    I work at an engineering firm with several asian employees and they all use their translated english names for the sake of convenience/confusion among others. I've personally asked all of them out of curiosity in the past and all answered the same.

  • sumok3n on 06/02/2015 - 02:22

    Im an asian gradute engineer and if you are trying to break into the mining or oil and gas market as a graduate engineer, it is a very hard time at the moment. I know alot of people who have been made redundant, loss contracts, and some straight out of uni with really good grades and vac work experience and can't find jobs. I think your chances will be better with smaller companies.

    When theres no or little work..they hire less people and the applicant pool is bigger and more competative.

    Good luck.

  • kriddy on 06/02/2015 - 03:47
    -1

    I'm surprised no one has trolled the advise/advice situation from the original post

  • bbear on 06/02/2015 - 04:09

    As an Asian, I understand the frustration when it comes to putting the best foot forward. This is because my name sounds very similar to something else and my initials is the same as a racist hate group. I believe that my English is not the problem because I have lived in Australia most of my life and I don't have difficulty with writing and speaking the language. Just for the sake of it, I have even put "fluent in written and spoken English" under my skills summary although that should be a given.

    I know that Australia is a multicultural society but who knows what happens behind closed doors. My friends told me not to worry about this. I reckon that it is most likely have to do with the state of the economy where companies are cutting it to the bone.

    Don't give up.

    • sempro on 06/02/2015 - 08:17

      Oh, you are one of those people…

    • bbear on 06/02/2015 - 11:33

      Then what happens to people like me who have lived here for more than 20 years?

    • westernculture on 06/02/2015 - 12:35

      If I have an employee like you, I would have fired you and put your name in blacklist of all employment agencies.

    • xuqi on 06/02/2015 - 17:20
      +1

      Thank you Pauline.

  • dial999 on 06/02/2015 - 09:01
    +1

    The thing that got me on all the job apps I rejected was the applicants going on and on about how much this job would help them, further their career, exactly what they wanted, etc - that is, it was all about them. Nothing about what they could contribute to the very small company for the large wage they would receive. And yes, in some cases, your name is a barrier although many graduates I know do not have jobs.

  • burningrage on 06/02/2015 - 10:10
    +3

    OP,

    I have been through that dark times too.

    In my experience, I don't think your name has anything to do with your predicament. My surname is middle-eastern even though I am a Asian too.

    I hopped jobs out of ambition but I had lengthy "in-between" as well as long as 6 months.

    When you have a family, 6 months do sound like eternity.

    But my quickest is 2 weeks and in recent times, I didn't have to wait too long.

    So I could try to offer you this advise.

    Each industry (like mine, Accounting) has a particular set of skills/things they're looking for. It's always the same everytime except in recent times, in my industry, there are "extra" skills that will make you even more employable but that's another day's story.

    I don't know about your industry, but in mine, they always look for people who:

    1. Not just a bean counter, but a demonstrable business partner. This means you demonstrably understand what the business needs and you have been working in a place that have that issues and you have been able to resolve it. A common example is too much processing but too little time analyzing so what you can say perhaps is that you have worked in automating reports and making the process simpler so more time on analyzing.
    2. Have shown reasonable tenure and be able to explain what have you done during that tenure (ie: A 5 years employee is only worth 2 years in the eye of an employer when you spent that 2 years scoring achievements/promotions/results)
    3. Can market themselves confidently (in paper and in interview) and that means, you are willing to change your resume to highlights things such as High Profile company you worked for and your achievements/process improvements within it and keep doing that for the first 2-3 pages if you have histories with big companies.
    4. Show example to demonstrate you TRULY understand the industry well. This is more an interview thing but nonetheless, you should keep this in mind when crafting your resume.

    Ever since my second job, I have never put forward any Cover Letter because the companies that employed me were the ones I didn't send my cover letter.

    Have a think about this for a start and feel free to PM me.

    TLDR: Every industry has "soft spots" of which you can target and show you have made your mark in improving/solving those soft spots. Find it and take it into consideration when crafting your Resume. Be Relevant.

    Regards

    Zz

  • uggugg on 06/02/2015 - 12:01

    If you have an Asian name, why not try just using the initials of your given names. This is something my dad did when we migrated over, and I have seen it used by a few other Asians too.

    • bbear on 06/02/2015 - 14:37
      +1

      My initials turn out to be the same as a racist hate group and so I never use it. If your initials are something like PK….. it means "drop dead" in Chinese.

      • uggugg on 06/02/2015 - 15:16

        Haha, my dad's initials were PK. It was only used by his non-Chinese friends and colleagues so I guess it really doesn't matter.

  • burgerbargain on 06/02/2015 - 12:27

    Pick an English name and get your resume edited by a professional resume review service ($300-$400). This sounds steep, but it's tax deductible and if a more polished resume helps you get a job just one week quicker, it will have paid itself off.

    • iSamurai on 06/02/2015 - 13:33

      usually your university would have something like this and they'd do it for free.

  • westernculture on 06/02/2015 - 12:33

    If you have a home country, try to find a job there, at least you'll get appreciated by just using your original name. If not then try looking for developed asian countries like Singapore or Taiwan. If people in this country can not appreciate your name then its not worth working with them. Simple as that.

    Since you're a graduate there's still a full life ahead of you, explore the world, don't just stuck in this country speaking only english. The world has changed, english language and western countries won't dominate the world in several years.

  • mwbong on 06/02/2015 - 13:17

    i am Asian, and below is what actually happened.

    Asian name on uni transcripts, email address etc.
    Applied for a job using my uni email address, used my asian name on CV etc (so as not to confuse things).
    Got an interview. Introduced myself using an english name that i had given myself back in uni (very common to have an english name in my home country and not have it on passports etc).
    Got the job (first and the only job i applied back in uni, different supply demand at that time).
    First day arrived at the office, the manager came to greet me at the reception. He was not the one who interviewed me, and all he had about my name was that Asian name on the CV.

    He said "welcome, my name is XXXX (an aussie)". He hesitated pronouncing my Asian name i can see.
    I said "Hi, my name is Ding Dong Tan" (not really my chinese name but you get what i mean)
    then i said "my friends also call me John" (not my english name).
    He said "alrightio, John, welcome. You are John from now on".

    email address, business card etc etc all setup using John. I have only been known as John ever since.
    When i need flights booked for work, i tell them to book under my Asian name, no probs.

    so ya, OP, give yourself an english name, use it on CV as others have suggested, when you actually get to signing contracts etc, tell them your asian name, they will always do this "Ding Dong (John) Tan on papers".

    for more info, my Aussie boss and i worked together very well for the last 9 years, and i respect him as my senior. soon not long after i started work, i asked why John. He told me that another lady had an Asian name and whenever they went to meetings, all other blokes had problems pouncing her name or remember her name, and when it comes to writing meeting minutes it was a bit hard too.

    OP, out of curiosity, are you a malaysian or singaporean?

    Source: An engineer who has been here for 10 years after graduation.

    • AssamLaksa on 06/02/2015 - 16:26

      Haha, this post made me laugh. Although I do still appreciate your advice, so thank you for that :)

      I like how you're so confident that I'm either Malaysian/Singaporean though. What gave it away?

      • mwbong on 09/02/2015 - 10:29

        asian, first language - english, not born here, bit of accent but not hard to understand.
        not many asian countries have this combo……
        i have many singaporean/malaysian friends like you

        and to top this up, i know you are a malaysian

        • AssamLaksa on 11/02/2015 - 22:47

          Ok, this is getting creepier. Do I know you??

  • iSamurai on 06/02/2015 - 13:32

    Do you have permanent residency or citizenship? I was in this position before… They don't like to hire people without PR or citizenship because of working rights.

    • bbear on 06/02/2015 - 14:42

      I would assume that people who apply have permanent residency in Australia. I doubt that it would help me or anyone else to have "residential status: Australian citizenship" in the cv.

    • AssamLaksa on 06/02/2015 - 16:11

      Yep, I do. Not easy to discreetly insert that into my CV tho

      • xuqi on 06/02/2015 - 17:22
        +2

        I don't see an issue with that. I have seen many CV's where people have listed; "Country of citizenship - Australia".

        Place it on the front page with you name address, D.O.B. info.

  • echelon6 on 06/02/2015 - 14:35

    As a dude with a Chinese name I know dem feels

    But I'm on the hiring side of things now and I have to admit I do the same thing. When you need to thin out 100 candidates for 1 position, an ethnic name will at the very least make me skim over your CV faster than usual. Couple that with Chinese characters in your email first/last name, or email signature, and I may only read your email title.

    If you mention IELTS anywhere on your application, it's instantly over for you. I don't care that you got 10/10 for it, don't ever mention IELTS anywhere in your job application.

    • AssamLaksa on 06/02/2015 - 16:13

      Yeah, that was one of my first mistakes, putting in my IELTS results. I've removed it under the recommendation of my university career counsellor though.

      • bbear on 06/02/2015 - 19:38

        Instead of putting your IELTS results, just put "fluent in written and spoken English" as a skill.

        • echelon6 on 07/02/2015 - 08:58
          +1

          Maybe not even. I think a hiring manager would assume your language skills are good enough unless they find a grammatical mistake or a peculiar word choice / sentence structure. Putting explicitly 'fluent in English' makes me think foreigner with heavy accent.

  • cheapismymiddlename on 06/02/2015 - 14:52

    Hi mate, I was in the same position five years ago. An Engineering graduate from one of the top four universities in Sydney with a looooong name. Same story as I refused to change my name. Then did a social experiment by applying for the same job with my original name and shortened English sounding name. Surprisingly the shorter name helped, not saying it's racism, but unfair. Now that I have got more experience, happy to use my full name. Government jobs are a bit better when it comes to equality. Don't give up and prove yourself.

    • scotty on 06/02/2015 - 17:49
      +4

      Do you just go by your middle name now?

  • dts88 on 06/02/2015 - 15:43

    nah, nothing wrong with an asian name.

    You might missed out an very important steps. Follow up phone calls. It worth to give them a ring to find out who is the corresponse person, and what kind of skills, people to best suit the job/role.

  • gstfree on 06/02/2015 - 15:52

    Referral by existing employees are much easier.
    Most of our team members were referred by employees.

    • dts88 on 06/02/2015 - 15:53

      true.

  • R3XNebular on 06/02/2015 - 18:06

    Also Asian, changed my name recently but kept my first "asian" name as my middle name. When applying for jobs I'd just leave out the middle name. Absolute pain in the arse to say my name during work or for people to pronounce it.
    Change your name back once you have a job lol

  • Funky Moose on 06/02/2015 - 18:09

    Yes names matter. They shouldn't but they do.

    I got my job by applying for ones that didn't exist. I'd research a small to medium sized company (less than 100 employees), write a customised letter and drop it off to the reception myself. Or better yet, someone in management. Its best if you can address the letter to someone in management too.

    Also, if you are apply in mining or mining exposed industries you are going to struggle. The unemployment in those industries is 2-3x the rest of the economy. Possibly much higher for grads.

  • Kempe on 06/02/2015 - 18:16
    +2

    Changing your name might help, I knew a guy called John Smells who couldnt get a job so he changed it to Michael Smells and got a job within a fortnight

  • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2015 - 19:05

    Was in the same situation when applying for jobs.
    I found that with my current employer they are down the line and said that they where hesitant in getting me to an interview due to the wog name but after the phone call they realised that my names different but I was born and raised in australia.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2015 - 19:35

    It does make a difference. You have to be twice as good to get half as much if you are a foreigner as a lot of xenophobia exists especially among the older generation. I have also met very warm and welcoming people so it really depends what kind of person is interviewing, some people have pretentious demands and the looks of the employee matter more than the actual work as well. Wish the world population was not in so much excess, we would have more value…however nobody wants to be the person to not have kids I guess.

  • paul11 on 06/02/2015 - 19:43

    Its hard to get interview calls if you have no experience, which we all know fresh graduates don't have. The key here is just to get some experience, even if you have to work for a meagre salary. Consider doing some volunteer or freelance work is that's applicable in your case. I am an Asian too with a very typical Asian name. Before moving to Australia, I have worked in US for 4 years. When I started applying jobs here, I could get 2 interview calls per almost 120 CV sent. I accepted a job with graduate level salary, even though I had 7 years of foreign work experience (including 4 years in the US). I now have 1 year of Australian experience, and looking for a better paying job. I now get atleast 1 interview call per every 10 CV sent. That being said, based on my experience, I do believe that name influence some (not all) hiring managers.

  • ops2000 on 06/02/2015 - 20:43

    It might work.

    Homer Simpson changed his name to Max Power (he got it of a hair dryer) and that got him to places he wouldn't have been before.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/02/2015 - 21:39

    It is all in the name you like it or not.
    When we were hiring hairdresser a while ago,a dozen of them apply.
    Most of our customers are Italians who speak no English, only Italian.
    Well all the wongs, singhs are all eliminated before we read their qualifications.
    We are not racist but unfortunately the truth is someone who can't communicate with our customers no matter how well qualified he or she is means nothing.

    • leiiv on 07/02/2015 - 00:58
      +1

      Shouldn't the ability to communicate with customers be part of the qualification? You can mention that Italian language skill are desirable?
      Why close the doors for any wongs and singhs who can speak Italian fluently?

      • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2015 - 06:44

        How likely are we to find a fluent Italian speaker in a Wong or Singh? Even if they can speak Italian as second language, how likely are they to know about an Italian film or Italian politics or a bocce player?

    • goosegog on 09/02/2015 - 14:12

      Obvious I know - but is there any wight or wong to this discussion? Singhs a little over the top to me.

  • TtiGeR on 06/02/2015 - 21:51

    It does make a difference in some cases.

    Having a Chinese name does not necessarily impact your chance that much. However, having a Chinese name that is difficult to pronounce by westerners can make a huge difference.

    Also, the spelling of some Chinese characters can be very strange to native English speakers. I knew someone who's first name is 蝶 (or "Die" in Pinyin, means butterfly). Apparently, most employer wouldn't like to hire someone with a first name of "Die".

    You don't have to use an English name, but if your name is difficult to pronounce, perhaps you can change the spelling a little bit. For example,

    Xin -> Shin
    Zhong -> Chong

    • lplau on 07/02/2015 - 14:40

      I knew of a person called "Xin Fa Kiu"…………

  • MetalPhreak on 06/02/2015 - 23:01
    +3

    Mate, I got rejected from pretty much all of my applications. And I'm just a white aussie guy :P

    They'll reject everyone with a grade average less than a certain level. I'm an above average intelligent person but I had crap uni marks (lack of real interest - cruise control'd my way through). Put in applications at like 50 engineering places and got heaps of rejections - and this was when the market was "good".

    Ended up getting offers from two very good (and large) local consulting firms, one of which I met at a careers breakfast. Ended up completing my vacation work with them and have been there the last two years.

    My best advice is, get your arse in front of someone. Get contact details of HR managers. Email direct. "I met your recruiter/staff at XXXXXX" blah blah. Applying online just makes you one of the hundreds of faceless names. Go to every careers expo or breakfast or whatever marketing events you can!

    They don't tell you this at uni, or when recruiting for uni, but there's an over-supply of graduate engineers now so a lot of companies do not want to invest in a newbie graduate unless they're good. My employer interviewed a few electrical graduates and they just didn't stack up. We're consultants so a lot of it is more than just technical ability though.

    Are you applying for only the "big names"? There's lots of smaller companies that you don't really hear about. If you're interested in consulting (building services etc):

    AECOM, WSP, BEST, NDY, Jacobs (SKM), ARUP, Wood & Grieve to name a few.

    • Another Mike on 08/02/2015 - 01:24

      Agreed. The OP mentioned that he got a stomach to feed and rent to pay, so do those managers he sent resume to. If a manager's team is not able to meet the KPI, he or she will be likely to lose the job. One of the ways to prevent this from happening is to have the most suitable and dedicated team members under his/her management.

      If the OP's resume or cover letter does not have any evidence that shows he is capable and willing to achieve high performance, such as academic result of honour degree or distinction average, or strong employment/volunteering history, a manager will be unlikely to place the bet on him.

      The advices from a few posts are great as there are other ways to reach managers and demonstrate the capability to them.

  • thepigs on 06/02/2015 - 23:18

    i got asked by my manager to not hire any more indians as they were too cliquey. He was also an indian. He pointed to a resume with a chinese sounding name on it and said 'hire him'. I didn't though; I hired another indian and an aussie. With hindisght I should have hired the chinese instead of the aussie. Not sure what the point of this is.

  • cashless on 07/02/2015 - 01:07
    +1

    Call yourself Tight Arse and say you want a job in the Accounting Dept.
    That should work

  • longislandicetea on 07/02/2015 - 01:33

    I completely agree with OP on this one. I applied for a job with my real name and got rejected but then decided to apply with an "English" name and got a phone call the very next day about coming in for a face to face interview with the managers (ended up getting that job). This just shows that some HR people don't even open some CV's with hard to pronounce/different names. I know it sucks OP but I applied to a ton of places as well and my name is my identity and I didn't want to change it for a job but start using an alias and in the interview make it clear to them that your real name is something else and that has been a disadvantage for you in the past. Good luck with the job hunt I am sure you will get something great soon :)

  • Sydneyman on 07/02/2015 - 09:08
    +3

    It's actually all in the:

    • university you attended (go8, other?)
    • grades you obtained during uni (credit, distinction WAM?)
    • work experience you got during uni (nothing, Woolworth's casual, industry experience?)
    • volunteer experience you gained during uni (nothing, uni specific, industry specific?)
    • extracurricular activities you participated in during uni (nothing, sporting achievements, music achievements, uni competitions?)
    • cover letter you write (errors, standardised, grammatically perfect, tailored to the firm?)

    • CV you write (errors, formatting issues, appropriate length?)

    • how all that compares to all the other applicants submitting their interest.

    Oh, and also your name (if you want to act like a victim instead of addressing all the points above to see why it is that you aren't currently competitive and what it is you need to change).

    • Wallyt99 on 07/02/2015 - 10:22

      Good post.

  • Hirolol on 07/02/2015 - 12:36

    I meet a lot of Asian students just come over from China/Taiwan and a lot of them just give themselves western names coz it's easier to say.
    1 of them got their name from a movie.
    You could do the same, just don't choose something like Terminator.

  • yesterdaysnews on 07/02/2015 - 14:19

    I was in a similar position as you, applying like mad to various engineering roles all of last year taking my time with applications and personalising etc but have very little luck. Had a few replies of no and a lot i didnt hear back from. Had a phone interview with big company that i was caught off guard for and muffed up. In the end i got an interview and got the job after a year of applying. I have a super white anglo saxon name, had some engineering experience and managerial experience from my part time job and had a pretty good gpa. Engineering is pretty tough atm.

    I recommend contacting your local councils engineering department and say hey im at this position in my career, want to learn more about what you do etc, try and organise a time to talk with them. Engineers love talking about themselves and how important their work is, or so ive heard. Try and see who they deal with then continue the process of hey im at this stage of my career, spoke to x from council, want to know more about you do. Try and make good impressions on everyone as someone may call x and ask about you. try and maintain communication with these contacts youve networked with. Next time one of them is hiring they might have you in mind as they know your name and what you look like.

    Goodluck

  • lplau on 07/02/2015 - 14:31

    I think its all about luck. And your resume / cover letter.
    You can have the most perfect resume / cover letter, but then again you have another 500 other candidates which have a perfect resume / cover letter.

    You need to think about this question: "What makes your resume stand out?" if you cannot answer that then the chances of getting a job in the current economy is very slim.

    It isn't in the name and if you believed it is, then even if you go into a interview, they would just see you then reject you anyway.

    Be pro-active, follow up with your applications. Instead of just sending it in and hoping for the best, give them a call first ask a few questions chat with the person a little then make your application. That way if you made a good impression on the call, the guy will get your application and be like "oh i remember this person". If you don't do that then it will be like "Oh another person with a 'perfect' resume, NEXT….."

    Also i read that you said you had overseas technical experience. That means nothing here, as they will use the "we want local experience" excuse on you. I know of some people who had 20yrs professional experience and tried to migrate to Australia, back at home they were pretty big shots e.g. executive or senior positions. When coming here, they kept getting rejected because companies would keep saying they want local experience.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2015 - 16:09

    Does it look weird on the resume if you use an initial for your last name?

  • Pungentia on 08/02/2015 - 08:23
    +1

    From a recent recruitment exercise I have been involved in, I would say that:

    • you should pay attention to your formatting, grammar and use of English (that includes ango-Aussies too).
    • you should do your research as to the place you are applying for. If you are applying for 100+ roles in one go you can really tell as an employer. It says you just want a job, it doesn't matter where, as opposed to 'I want a job at your company'.
    • blank space - someone told me that you need to pay attention to how much blank space there is on a resume. Text heavy resumes are horrible to read - you need to have enough white space that someone who has read 100+ resumes before yours and has blurry eyes can cope
    • don't write it in comic sans
    • if you have a masters in accountancy, and it isn't relevant, don't put it down
    • I don't want to know what primary school you went to
    • I would consider abbreviating your name (or even phonetically spelling it out and putting that in brackets).
      I have a family member who routinely abbreviates his surname as it is long and scary - you don't necessarily have to go as far as formally changing your name.

    Good luck :)

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