Is It All in The Name?

AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 12:06

Hi,

I need some advise. I am an engineering graduate who has been applying for TONS of jobs. Not kidding, by tons, I mean like almost a 100 jobs. I submit my application, and get rejected within a few days/weeks/months for everything. I've had my resume and cover letter checked by my career counsellors, got them fixed, continue applying, get MORE rejections, back to career counsellors, and they think my resume and cover letter is now very good and "employable" yet nothing has changed! I also have some work experience, although it's not in a technical role. Mind you, I don't mass submit general resumes and cover letters. I rewrite each cover letter to tailor to their skill requirements and modify my resume to fit their bill each time as well

The worst problem I'm facing is even getting to an interview. Employers don't even proceed my applications to the next stage when I clearly fit the requirements of what they're looking for. I can totally understand if I make it to an interview, screw it up big time, lack technical knowledge, or my personality just totally does not fit into their companies culture, etc. But the fact that they do not even proceed me to the next stage is what's ticking me off.

So this is where the title of this post comes in. I'm Asian, and have a VERY Asian sounding name. I don't have an English name, and I like sticking to my original name because I didn't think it matters. But now that I am at my wit's end, the only thing I can think of that is stopping me from getting an interview is my name.

What do you guys think? Is it really all in the name? Should I give myself an English name (even though all my academic transcripts, etc) doesn't have an English name?

Any advise will be appreciated!

Education & Work

Comments

  • ozhunter on 04/02/2015 - 12:14
    +7

    Well, changing your name could help, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/02/jose-joe-job-discri…

    • zrach on 05/02/2015 - 23:44
      +12

      Try changing it and apply to the same companies. Do a social experiment

    • CI on 06/02/2015 - 10:25

      It did help.. Me.

      • cantstanzya on 08/02/2015 - 10:15
        +3

        Airline pilot jobs huh?

  • strikerzebra on 04/02/2015 - 12:23
    +10

    Some people are still racist so it's better to go with an English name.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 14:28

      Do you mean the OP changes his name legally? Or do you mean he/she uses an alias instead of their name on the resume?

    • centrelink on 06/02/2015 - 01:16
      +5

      If they are racist, why would they want to hire you when they see that you are ethnic anyways?

    • goraygo on 06/02/2015 - 20:52
      +6

      I don't think you should change your name legally.

      I think you can always use a preferred name. So instead of "SHIU Yat-Sun", write in your resume as "Sunny Shiu" or something closer to your Asian name.

      You just call that your Christian name or preferred name, no need to do anything to register it.

      In fact, in your resume, you don't even need to fill in your legal name, the agent won't care, neither do the hiring manager. If they ended up hiring you, their HR will ask you for copies of driver's license and other identifications, then you can tell them your legal name is different from what people call you, but you prefer whatever name by then. :)

      However, if you want to be successful, it is better to use an English name, it is not racists. I am Asian myself and I understand the fact that if your name is easier to remember, it will be easier for people to recall your name for opportunities in future.

      So, please, choose names like, Joe, John, Nathan, whatever that's common, not another obscure name that you hardly find. At least you have an option to "choose" your own name, most people don't given that choice mate. :P

      • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2015 - 20:20
        +1

        Perfect Advice. Couldn't say it better.

        Only problem is when you get the job under "John" as preferred name but your name is Shiu, I mean it is your 'preferred name' - your 'preferred name' is whatever gets you a job, but now you have to stick with it. So common but still sounds similar enough, i.e. Shaun instead of Shiu - easy enough to respond to your 'preferred' name in the workplace.
        Funny story, a person I know forgot their legal name and applied for a passport in their preferred name. She had used a different 'Aussie' name all her life than her Chinese one. Apparently it took her a good few minutes to realise her mistake.

    • cornholyio on 06/02/2015 - 21:35

      I get calls from agents and most time they're Irish or scottish and they're pretty hard to understand at times. Now, if I be considerate and put myself in their shoes, saying my name would be hard for them. So, this is what I think - they are hard to understand and when they prep up their small intro including my name, they are trying hard or they don't give a F&*k.
      I mostly never call them back after they leave a voicemail because I cant understand what they want.
      PS: Thats 17 calls on avg/week and I am still jobless since before xmas. :-((

  • Hikey on 04/02/2015 - 12:25
    +15

    Give it a try and see whether anything changes. But ask yourself whether you want to work for a company that wouldn't hire you if you have a non-western name.

    • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 12:55
      +3

      Honestly no, I wouldn't want to work for a company that discriminates people based on their name, but at the rate it's going, i'll never get a job with this name.

      I'm gonna try giving myself an english name, although my surname is pretty damn Asian sounding as well…

      • ESEMCE on 04/02/2015 - 13:50
        +13

        The whole resume process is about eliminating candidates as quickly as possible.
        Factoring in that the current environment is not good for Engineering Jobs and you have a whole lot of competition for not many positions = more applicants and more stringent elimination criteria.
        Quite possibly this includes Asian sounding names, not because of any inherent racism within the company, but a crude way to filter out applicants who may not have "perfect" English.
        Definitely worth a crack at using an "english" name just to get your foot in the door for an Interview.
        But knowing a few Engineers myself, be aware that you're trying to get a job in a market flooded with experienced personnel including recent graduates, so quite possibly all graduates are getting eradicated from resume piles in favour of candidates that wont need as much baby-sitting.

        • Souljarh on 06/02/2015 - 20:38
          +2

          Great advice. Was going to type out a long reply but scubacoles hit the nail on the head. I am an Asian too, I have an unofficial Christian name. I graduated in 2008 from a primary healthcare course. The hardest part is definitely getting that first job. Once you have some work experience you become much more competitive.
          Even then, I have found that I had to really excel at what I do to get the same job as others. I have also found, in Australia, what you SAY you do/can do is more valued than what you ACTUALLY do/can do, at least in the healthcare industry.
          All the best with your job hunting, don't give up, your chance of success increases with every failure.

        • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2015 - 20:26

          When I worked at a large company, the boss was going through resumes with Indian universities listed and had one of her Indian employees sit with her to tell her if he know if it was a legit university or a sham one!

          Maybe with Asians they would be trying to find ex-International Students who are just trying to get PR.

  • cypher67 on 04/02/2015 - 12:26
    +17

    I have worked with my fair share of poor English speaking people and more often than not it is not an enjoyable experience. If I had 50 resumes in front of me and all of them were sufficiently qualified, I need to narrow it down to the top 10 for phone interviews, I hate to say it but something as small as a name might be enough to turn me off; there is no real science behind this, it is just gut feel and there is a real chance the best candidates can be cut for any number of reasons. I understand the challenge you face and although discrimination is supposed to be a thing of the past, if someone sees a VERY Asian name as you put it, it can provoke different reactions in different people.

    Have you created a LinkedIn Profile? I find that having a professional profile with a good picture, a bunch of endorsements from credible sources and list of experiences; that it goes a long way in that line of work. If you want to break that stigma that your name could bring, you need to break down those walls. Maybe instead of applying online, if it is possible go hand in your resume in person and ask to speak to the hiring manager. I’ve done this many times and when they are doing that review of those 50 resumes, you will make a far larger impression than any piece of paper will bring. Best of luck!

    • Hikey on 04/02/2015 - 12:29
      +58

      there is no real science behind this, it is just gut feel

      That gut feel is called racism

      • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 12:52
        +10

        Call me naive, but I like to believe that it's just a "stigma". Asian name = Probably a fob = probably bad english.

        • dlakers3peat on 05/02/2015 - 20:04
          +2

          I work for one of the biggest mnc in the world and if their recruitment process was based on your "gut feel" there would be hardly anyone working there.

      • cypher67 on 04/02/2015 - 13:03
        +16

        People play the racism card to fast. If I have to cut 40 names from a list, is it not fair to make a decision based on my experiences? I have to draw on something I cant just pick them out randomly. I may have had excellent experiences from a specific nationality so I might target them. The recruitement process is more than just the most qualified person, you have to take into account the people they will be working with and the dynamic of the team.

        • Hikey on 04/02/2015 - 13:17
          +6

          If you have to cut people from a list you should do it based on their qualifications, not ethnic background or their names. It is not "playing the racism card too fast".

        • ESEMCE on 04/02/2015 - 13:54
          +13

          @Hikey:
          When you have a list of similarly qualified people (ie graduates who have a little bit of non-technical experience), you don't have much else to go on.

        • adante on 06/02/2015 - 00:45
          +15

          Fair for who? If a person with an Asian name has less opportunities than an equally qualified person with a Western name, then no - that is basically the literal definition of unfair.

          Some might say that there is…….. Sum Ting Wong

          yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

        • RocketSwitch on 06/02/2015 - 09:54
          +4

          @adante: Funny enough, I had to look through about 20 resumes for a job here, I didn't care for a name at all, I looked straight for qualifications and experience.

          But that's just me, I like fair because far too often life isn't fair at all and the world needs more white knights.

        • Nicktorious on 06/02/2015 - 11:42
          +2

          Since when is judging a candidate by their nationality not racism.

        • crfnx on 06/02/2015 - 16:00

          This is so true. People are not cogs in a machine. Too many bad bosses/managers think this way, you have to consider the team as living organism and find out the best way to make it work.

          Recruitment is very difficult. Names play a big part in recruitment. It is all over the internet you can go read about it, it's not just foreign names it is also unique names that people haven't heard before.

          http://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-your-name-affects-your…

          To the OP.
          Engineering is a pretty dead sector in Australia at the moment, as are many others it is going to be tough to find a job as a new graduate, which sucks sorry. Don't give up, there is no harm in trying to apply for the same jobs with a different name to see the results. I would be very interested to see how it goes for you. I wish you the best of luck in finding a job.

        • Magpye on 06/02/2015 - 20:40
          +1

          @Nicktorious: You do understand the difference between ethnicity and nationality right ?
          If I reject an application because the applicant is Asian, that's racism
          If I reject an application because the applicant is from New Zealand, that's me just being an @sshole.

        • saintmagician0 on 06/02/2015 - 23:29
          +2

          @Nicktorious: It's racism if nationality correlates with racism. It's also racism if you judge by something other than race, which happens to result in the exclusion of a race, and that thing is not a genuine requirement of the job. i.e. your job has no justified reason to exclude someone of particular nationalities, and doing so would happen to exclude largely people of a particular race, it counts as racism.

      • diddy50 on 06/02/2015 - 15:08

        Everything is racist these days.

      • saintmagician0 on 06/02/2015 - 23:27
        +2

        It's not racism if you don't want to hire people with shitty English, and it happens that Asian international students are more likely to have bad English (and pretty much everyone who's been to uni and dealt with international students can tell you this is often true).

        It can, however, still be illegal discrimination. Illegal discrimination can cover both when you discriminate against a protected group (e.g. Asians), or when you set conditions that are not genuinely required by the job and happen to have the effect of eliminating a protected group. If good English is a genuine requirement for a job though, then that's not illegal.

        Eliminating someone based on a name would probably count as discrimination, however "gut feel" from reading a resume can easily include things like - presentation, spelling, grammar, etc. There's also things like some companies may avoid hiring international students, because say, their grad program only takes Australian citizens. I've seen this a lot (requirement for Australians), not sure why it's legal but I'm pretty sure it is considering I've seen government jobs have such a requirement.

    • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 12:48
      +4

      Well, I'd like to believe I have decent English although I can see where you're coming from. I would have thought my cover letter, which I made sure to be professional, grammatically correct, and tailored to what they were looking would be able to give a good idea of my level of English, but evidently not.

      I do have a LinkedIn Profile and it's very updated and polished, also with my original name. I haven't tried submitting my resume in person, but it's something I will definitely consider. Thanks for your advice :)

      • mskeggs on 04/02/2015 - 13:59
        +14

        Your written English is fine, and has the nuance of somebody who is very fluent, and the colloquial expression of a native speaker.
        If your spoken English is the same you shouldn't have problems in an interview.

        • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 15:08
          +3

          Thanks. It's definitely not top notch, but I am a native speaker. English is my first and main language. I do not have an Australian accent, but everyone I know (Australians and not) agrees my accent isn't difficult to comprehend whatsoever. I actually don't feel like I'll be at a disadvantage at an interview, it's just making the cut for the interview is what's stopping me :(

        • sagrules on 06/02/2015 - 10:57

          @Encipher: I would probably just update my resume with an english sounding first name and keep the surname for purposes of applying online. When you go in for the job and fill in the paper work just use your real name.

      • marquise on 05/02/2015 - 19:36
        +32

        You wrote:
        "I would have thought…" NOT "I would of thought"

        Therefore:
        Your English is much better than some Ozbargainers!

      • dealman on 06/02/2015 - 10:37
        +6

        I have been there before and I cut my name to a short version of original name that's easier to pronounce. Another thing you should do is to think about how to stand out from a sea of candidates. The main thing here is to get attention of the recruiters, technical managers and the like.

        You say you are an Engineer and you apply for hundreds of jobs. Answer the following ?

        1) Have you ever tried sending your resume in Post , with a Greeting Card(Christmas, Easter blah blah blah ) or a small Kitkat bar, or anything other than the plain old email to get attention.

        2) Is your visa status clear in a 5 second glance of your resume ? most recruiters get 100s of applications from overseas candidates who don't have visa to work here, so a foreign sounding name is an easier way for people to screen candidates out who don't have visas.

        3) Have you tried to meet with Job consultants and approached them with anything out of the ordinary, like sending them your projects portfolio or anything special, anything out of the ordinary ? Semi stalking them ? Showing them how keen you are ?

        4) When emailing people do you use Rapportive ? Do you have anything in your email copy to show you have done a little more research than the avg candidate ?

        It is definitely harder to get a job with a Asian name no doubt about it and though I won't call all of it racism, some of it certainly is. In the case of Engineering think about it, there are hundreds of local candidates with local experience applying for the same jobs via email, exactly the same as you, If you were in their place wouldn't you choose someone with local experience ?

        Having a good linkedin profile(With custom URL), your visa status clearly clarified and having it feature prominently in the first page is a must for overseas candidates if you want to get ahead of the sea of candidates.

        Finally don't loose hope, you rose above millions to grab the chance and made it so far in to AUS, the rest of your life is going to be way easy… Welcome to Australia.

    • Noblejoker on 05/02/2015 - 14:44

      Credit for honesty
      I would advise against culling by name but think it is unfair to call it racism
      Maybe a bias would be fairer - we hear about gender bias all the time - mostly just from sheilas un that :)

      +1 for Linked in profile
      Definitely worth doing and free
      Also gives you a chance to highlight your excellent language skills, time in the country, experience, hobbies etc

    • untg on 06/02/2015 - 12:26
      +1

      Communication is a huge part of almost EVERY job, so yes, if two people applied for the same job and their qualifications were the same and every was exactly the same apart from the name, which was Wang Yan or John Saunders, the person looking to fill the position may decide on John, EVEN IF he/she is wrong, they may think they are wasting their time interviewing someone with that name since they are likely to have ESL, ie. not be able to communicate as well in the workplace.
      I wouldn't do this because it is potentially discrimination but yeah, OP should change his/her name.

  • tanoshiiki on 04/02/2015 - 12:40
    +4

    Adopt an English name. It's not allowed, but I have heard of stories of some hiring managers (in smaller businesses) that throw out CVs if they can't easy pronounce the name.

    • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 12:51
      +1

      Well, that sucks for me then because most non-Asians who tries reading my name out loud for the first time are always afraid to mispronounce it although they get it right majority of the time.

      The only problem is with my certs. They all do not have an English name in it, so I'm not sure how I'm going to prove that it's the name person…

      • airzone on 04/02/2015 - 13:21
        +15

        Don't worry about it. It's perfectly plausible to have an english name for everyday use, and all formal documentation in a foreign name.

        • cypher67 on 04/02/2015 - 13:41
          +4

          I think its more of a moral stand then a practical one. He shouldnt have to change his name to get a job. However if you do decide to change it, I highly recommend Bruce Wayne.

        • mskeggs on 04/02/2015 - 13:57

          @cypher67:
          I agree, but if he is losing the battle, he can try out Bruce Wayne and see if it gets him interviews. When we are doing the hiring we can get the advantage of the competent staff with unusual names that our racist competitors are over looking.

        • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 15:10
          +6

          @mskeggs: I'd rather go for… "Bond. James Bond" cue theme song. Heck, I think I'll just go with John Smith. Surely every company needs a John Smith??

        • McFly on 05/02/2015 - 20:51
          +1

          @cypher67: Yes, I hear Bruce is very good with the process of name changes.
          He first started as Mat Man but then thought about it some more and had to change to Hat. That didn't work well either so he tried Rat, before finally settling on Fat. After a few quiet years he changed it to the one we are all familiar with and things took off from there.

        • Souljarh on 06/02/2015 - 20:45
          +2

          @cypher67: My surname is Wang, I recently considered naming my 6 week-old son "Bruce"

      • tanoshiiki on 04/02/2015 - 18:11
        +6

        Don't worry about the certs. It's actually really common for people to adopt an English or even another name for daily use, but it will be different to the certifications. That stuff is all handled after you get an interview.

      • saintmagician0 on 06/02/2015 - 23:33

        Your certs shouldn't be a problem, since your official identity documents (driver's license, passport, etc.) would have your photo and your real name. There's no way a company hiring you wouldn't get you to fill in HR forms that include this information, so they will have your official name on file.

        If you get an official name change, then you get a fancy name change certificate that proves you had your previous name, and that should be proof enough.

        As others have said, it's also not usual to have a name for every day use that is not the same as your official one. In that situation, i think you'd actually have a harder time if your certs were under your 'every day name' rather than your 'official name'

    • malkakas on 04/02/2015 - 14:48
      +3

      Unfortunately some people are racist and some are not.

      for example if the labor party ditch "Annastacia Palaszczuk" because of her name, They would not have succeeded in QLD election.

      Australians love to shorten things,

      If somebody ask you who is "Anthony John Abbott" very few people will identify the real person, but if somebody ask you who is "Tony Abbot" then people know who he is.

      your best bet is to get a English first name, or shorten your Asian name to two or three letter.

      I'm from South Asia and I got a very long name, previously I had my surname in my CV and I didn't get a single interview, Now I only use the shortened version of my name for job applications and it seems to work.

      You can get a JP to certify that the person in English name and Asian name is the same person.

      • na8an on 05/02/2015 - 01:15
        -1

        i'm sorry who is JP? how can one get this certification? and what are the legal bounds for changing name?

        • McFly on 05/02/2015 - 20:53
          -1

          You fool, JP was The Pope!

        • BartholemewH on 05/02/2015 - 20:59
          +2

          Justice of the peace. Many banks, legal offices, estate agents have an employee that holds this title.

        • untg on 06/02/2015 - 14:16

          @BartholemewH:
          And failing those, a police station usually has a JP.

  • mskeggs on 04/02/2015 - 13:54
    +5

    I think it is routine for hiring people to look for any reason to cut down the pile of applications they have in front of them.
    If Jill Brown and Keisuke Miyazaki are applying for a job in Sydney with the same qualifications and you want to fill the role quickly, you would be asking the hiring manager to be actively non-racist to call Keisuke first, because the likelihood Jill has poor English is much lower than Keisuke. The places would be reversed in Japan.
    I don't particularly like it, but people bring all sorts of short cuts to their work, and one of them is making judgements based on little clues like name.
    There is a lawyer in Hurstville in Sydney called Michael Lee. He tells me he gets a lot of business from Chinese locals who think he is asian (he is Anglo). HE is happy that they call him in preference to some other solicitor in the yellow pages. Shrug.
    It is entirely legal to use any name you want, providing you are not doing it for fraudulent purposes. If you prefer to be called Matthew on your resume, go for it! At least you will find out if your traditional name is preventing those first round call backs.

  • ozkiwi75 on 04/02/2015 - 14:14
    +6

    I think your problem is two fold. For one, as others have mentioned above, call it racism or human nature or whatever, there will always be some employers out there that will discriminate based on perceived character traits associated with ethnic names. The second issue is that depending on your field within Engineering and your location, the demand for engineers is going through a quiet patch at the moment. A decade ago with the mining and other infrastructure booms it was the opposite, with the demand for engineers being so high that they were being imported at high levels from all over the world.

    I suggest at this early stage in your career if it's at all possible possible, look for work in other cities where the opportunities are. Get your foot in the door, get some experience, start looking again in your desired location.

    Source: I'm an Engineer with 15+ years experience and I have a non-english name.

    • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 15:16
      +2

      Wrong era to graduate! :(

      I've applied for jobs way across the country and have ticked the "Willing to relocate" box all the time. My only option on securing a job at this stage is to apply overseas apparently.

      • ozkiwi75 on 05/02/2015 - 13:33
        +1

        Applying overseas when times are tough is not out of the ordinary. When I graduated in NZ back in 1999, there were hardly any jobs going around anywhere in the country. I'd say over 2/3 of our engineering class ended up with their first job in Australia, UK or Canada.

        It's a shame because the home country that invested in getting you through the education system will never get a return on their investment if you leave.

        • Xenocaust on 06/02/2015 - 20:07

          With regards to 'willing to relocate' have you explored the reasons for why you'd be looking to move to where the employer is?

          In previous roles I have certainly had a preference for local candidates, except where someone has taken the time to explain why they want to move to Perth.

          Admittedly most of the time I was recruiting for short term contracts, but interstate candidates needed exceptional skills or experience to stand out.

          This admittedly was influenced by a candidate who seemed keen to move from Melbourne, but after a couple of weeks negotiations declined to sign a contract as his existing employer counter offered

        • ozkiwi75 on 07/02/2015 - 02:15

          @Xenocaust: My point was, why stay where there are no jobs or demand in your field?

          I respectfully disagree with your comments. It's all relevant to the market for the respective skills. I bet you if the jobs outnumbered the candidates in your town and the potential candidates you were looking for were in demand, you would find it much harder to attract the local candidates that you have such a preference for. And if the position needed to be filled quickly, your preference will likely shift from the local talent to whoever is fit for the position irrespective of their current location. That old model where you live in the same city for your whole life and give loyalty to the company till retirement culture is now outdated.

          People have been moving to where the work is for thousands of years. I'm just talking about supply and demand. Plain and simple.

          On a side note, I think it's a bit harsh to expect a candidate to explain why they want to move to Perth unless it has something directly to do with the position. They may have a personal reason for moving there that they don't want to share. But who cares. The question that you should be asking is, does this candidate's skills, experience and character match the position and company. Not pondering over their city of origin matching your liking, or as the Op suspects, his non-english name.

        • Xenocaust on 07/02/2015 - 14:40

          @ozkiwi75:

          I was recruiting for relatively short term contracts with a starting date normally within a month.

          I would look to shortlist and interview within a week, and it is much easier to do so with local candidates. At the time the organisation I was working in did not have Skype on their approved applications, so even Skype interviews were not doable, and my organisation would not reimburse flights for an interview for these roles.

          When an advertisement is posted on a side like Seek you will be spammed with dozens of CVs, many of which don't even meet 50% of the requirements, and certainly don't have a covering letter. Where is there is, there is often a lack of awareness of where the role is based.

          I have conducted telephone interviews with outstanding candidates in other cities and they can work, but there is no obligation on me to give no consideration to where the candidate is based.

          All other things being equal where I have a choice of candidates with equivalent skills and experience I will short list those who can physically get to an interview first.

          It may be unfair, but it is a hurdle for applicants and I was calling it out.

          You are quite right that it is none of my business why someone may wish to move to my city, but I do like some awareness that it'd be required .

  • Baysew on 04/02/2015 - 15:14
    +1

    The purpose of a resume is to get an interview.

    Yes, your name might not be helping.

    The ANU research found applicants with Chinese names face the most difficulty landing interviews. They only have a one in five chance in comparison to the one in three chance of applicants with Anglo-Saxon names.

    Resume Racism

    Also, make sure your covering letter and resume are correct.

    I need some advise

    (Your post isn't a job app and I'm not a grammar Nazi)

    So I suggest change your name. It will only be important closer to the final selection.

    Good luck on your job search - it's a tough gig.

    • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 15:28
      +1

      Ah, my bad. Wrote the post while I was seething with anger over my latest rejection so I hadn't the patience to correct it.

      Yeah, going with the majority's opinion, it's worth a shot changing my name to see if I could break the first barrier. If I still fall flat, then welp there's something terribly wrong with me :/

      • airzone on 04/02/2015 - 18:56
        +1

        You'll eventually get there… When changing jobs last (thanks to redundancy), I went through about 50 applications, of which there were 3 interviews. Industry snobbery was a big impact for me.. Consulting, guild organisations, construction, not-for-profit, fmcg, council, aerospace & defence… How is your IT management in "x" industry relevant to "y" industry. And there were between 150 - 300 applicants for each role to compete with.

        What engineering discipline are you in anyway?

        • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 23:09
          +2

          An uncommon discipline: Mechatronics Engineering.

          But I try to use that to my advantage and play up my skills by saying I'm "proficient in both mechanical and electronic engineering"

        • airzone on 05/02/2015 - 12:11
          +1

          @Encipher: Not as uncommon as you think. Open up your PM's.

        • AssamLaksa on 05/02/2015 - 12:14

          @airzone: opened.

        • aaronaldo on 05/02/2015 - 17:07

          @airzone: Are you offering him a job???

        • airzone on 05/02/2015 - 17:25
          +2

          @aaronbaron: Lol, wouldn't that be something. No, I gave him some details of companies that have use for electrical, mechanical, and mechatronics engineers.

        • OBone on 05/02/2015 - 21:25
          +1

          @Encipher:
          I believe ANSTO in NSW has employed people with those qualifications before, if you haven't tried them already.

        • airzone on 05/02/2015 - 23:10

          @OBone: a bonus with ansto is that they will sponsor you for a security clearance… Which helps immeasurably with defence contactors, if that's your thing.

        • Cyb3rGlitch on 08/02/2015 - 13:28

          @Encipher: Have you tried applying for a software dev job? If you can write software, companies like Atlassian hire a bunch of graduates at once, and they'll probably be doing another big round soon.

  • Crownie on 04/02/2015 - 15:30
    +5

    Another tip besides adopting an anglo-saxon name is to follow up with the company.
    When rejected, give the company a call to inquire why.
    That way you can actually talk to the hiring person and demonstrate your grasp of the English language.
    The conversation could lead to your application to emerge from the throw out pile to that of one being kept for future jobs.
    Good luck and stick with it. Very tough but there will be a job out there in the industry.

    • mskeggs on 04/02/2015 - 20:53
      +3

      This is good advice, but don't be crestfallen if few want to take your call. Bigger companies don't want to leave themselves open to claims like racism.

    • Risser on 05/02/2015 - 19:52
      +3

      As the hirer/employer, please don't call if you got rejected without even making it to interview. If you make it that far, call, see what you can improve on. If you didn't make it that far, please don't call, it's just awkward.

      • na8an on 05/02/2015 - 20:25
        +5

        It might be awkward for receiving end, but the person who is calling is desperate to find whats wrong with his application.

    • derk on 06/02/2015 - 13:49

      +1 to this. I would also say, call the company straight after you apply, asking for the person who you sent your application to with some sort of follow up question. This means they can put a voice and your English speaking abilities to the CV.

  • shadowarrior on 04/02/2015 - 17:21
    +9

    I had similar problems like you when I moved here back in 2008. Try these tips, it kind of helped me…and managed to get an interview finally for a job I still have.

    I abbreviated my name. It's easier for the mass to pronounce, easier for them to communicate. And I used that abbreviated name in my Cover Letter and email signatures. Its easier than changing my name, and I can make fun of 'I bet you can't pronounce my full name'. :)

    Create a linked in profile, put a professional photograph of you in the profile. Put the linked in profile link right below your name in the digital CV or email signatures.
    "Oh he looks all right" will get you replies than "Damn, typical asian name, must look like a typical asian as well".

    Before applying, I call the HR manager, and chat about the role. I prepare some questions before the call so I sound genuine. Then I apply, and call back next day. Thank him for his help, and that I have now sent my application through. I use my abbreviated name when I am introducing myself over the phone, and use the same abbreviated name for my email name, email signature, CV file name etc. If they have spoken to you, and have a feeling that you have good communication skills and not have a typical asian accent, you might have a chance of him recognizing your CV when he picks it up.

    It is a tiring exercise, but don't give up. Best of luck!

    • mskeggs on 04/02/2015 - 20:55

      This is very good advice, especially the call before and after.

    • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 21:35
      +1

      Oh, interesting. Those are very good tips there. Should definitely give a call next time. The bigger companies don't usually have a number you can just "pick up and ring" though, but still good advice. Thanks!

      • pikespeak77 on 06/02/2015 - 05:28

        If you are going through a recruitment agent you should do this too, And then its up to the recruitment office to fight for you. No matter what your name sounds like, Are you able to try to go through a Recruiter like Michaelpage?
        If nothing else its often a good opportunity to get free drinks/meals as they like to wine and dine both clients and candidates.

        I used to work with a fellow who found that changing his last name from "Wong" to "white" got him substantially more replies, then once he had a job and it was time to sign police check and the like he simply claimed it was a typo.

    • theStinge on 05/02/2015 - 18:29
      +1

      Agree with the calling thing - has worked for me several times. I've got a very ethnic name myself.

  • LoftyAu on 04/02/2015 - 20:39
    +1

    Abbreviate or shorten your name if you want, but don't use something random as that will just raise eyebrows.

    Do you have permanent residency? That may also be a factor if not (or if you do but you are not stating it, do so).

    Your written English is fine.

    I will ask - are you applying for jobs aimed at graduates? I get many grads applying for jobs that require at least 5 years experience. Instant knock back. I don't care how good you did at uni, you are still a grad.

    My process for quick sorting resumes (each step is a cull):

    • Right Experience /qualifications?
    • Is the resume readable (so many are not - it isn't racism but simply a requirement of the role to have good written Skills)
    • Does the person have permanent residency (too hard if they do not)

    This takes me maybe 30 sec per resume at most. If I can't find the info quickly it's a turn off.

    At this point I then read resumes in detail to determine interview list.

    • AssamLaksa on 04/02/2015 - 21:32

      I do have permanent residency, but it's not something people commonly write in a resume isn't it? I usually mention that I'm a permanent resident if I'm emailing it to someone, but those that require me to submit online forms and doesn't have an option for me to mention it, I don't.

      Yes, I apply only for jobs that I qualify for. So mostly junior/entry-level/graduate programs. Anything that states "minimum 2/5/10 years experience with so-and-so" I ignore. I know that I wouldn't stand a chance for those so I apply only for things which i meet all the requirements for.

      Thanks for the info, I need to find more ways to condense my skills/qualifications in 30 secs!

      • shadowarrior on 05/02/2015 - 12:55
        +1

        If you don't have already, top of your CV should be the list of skills and experience you have along with any relevant degree.

        2-3 lines of this solves - keyword sorting in digital job applications, HR can read that 2-3 lines and if he is then interested reads the rest of your CV.

      • pyro love bird on 06/02/2015 - 03:08

        I have extensive experience in my resume but have also had problems finding work so I added that I'm born in Aust (Aust citizen) and am a native english speaker at the top of my resume. Right after I added that, I started getting some responses from the places I applied to. So it might help you. But I understand where you're coming from, people assume I don't speak english based on the fact that I'm not of a Caucasian background and I don't have an Anglo name. It bothers me as I work in retail and people talk to me like I'm a child, and some so rude as to have said that I must've recently married into the country!

      • saintmagician0 on 06/02/2015 - 23:40

        You should definitely put your residency status on your resume, or at least find a way to mention it. If companies think you might be an international student, then your right to stay in the country / work in the country would matter. If you don't believe me, take a look at this whirlpool thread"

        http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1387865

        It discusses the issue of international students and grad programs. The issue being that some jobs require PR or citizenship, which international students tend not to have. It's a common thing.

  • LoftyAu on 04/02/2015 - 21:58
    +1

    You may find they might assume you don't have PR just based on your name. I would add it on. It's not racism but just a fact of the job market that many OS workers apply for Australian jobs in the hope a company will help them migrate.

    No need to condense, just ensure it is easy to skim and find important info in making it past someone's initial filter. When you have hundreds of applications to skim in first culls…

  • Sweetnsour on 05/02/2015 - 08:06

    Name may make a minor difference however even when you get interview you need to impress. The reality is grads out number jobs available. So you need to be best of the best in your industry. Uni don't care if you find jobs, they prefer you to continue to study.

    All grads think highly of themselves until they head out to reality and find it requires more than just a degree.

    I know of grads that go 2-3 years with no luck. Only then to change industries after 3 years at uni. I hope you have better luck.

  • Sweetnsour on 05/02/2015 - 08:07
    +1

    A few days later ask the interviewer for some feedback about how you went, what can you improve etc

  • boccos on 05/02/2015 - 08:26
    +1

    A friend of mine was in a similar position after finishing his apprenticeship. In his case the excuse always used was that he did not have any experience. Eventually he looked further afield and went to New Zealand where the need for trades was high, to assist after the earthquakes using his qualifications. Now he has been there for a year or more and is now sufficiently experienced and will soon return to Australia and find employment closer to home.

  • xgtrboy on 05/02/2015 - 10:08
    +3

    Hi mate, PM me if you want to chat offline. I used to work as a recruiter and am happy to share advice / opinion if you're interested. Cheers, I'm an ABC :). BTW everything that has been said so far is valid advice and comments.

  • jagboy on 05/02/2015 - 12:51
    +1

    My stepson had a Maori surname. Same as you Enchipher, he would get rejection after rejection. Changed his surname to mine which is English sounding and things changed for him within 6 weeks. I can understand your reluctance to change your name but this may be a viable option. Good luck.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 15:05
    +8

    Unless your name is Fook Kin Koontz, you should be right. I have an asian name, it's hard to pronouce etc etc, but I wouldn't change it cause it's the name my parents gave me and I respect that. The job market is difficult at the moment, you may have to do something out if the box to have your skills / experience noticed.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 05/02/2015 - 16:46
      +1

      respect for you bro.

    • Souljarh on 06/02/2015 - 20:57
      +2

      Up voted you because you are funny. Yes if you are clearly better than the other applicants they will hire you no matter what, but that is unfortunately not the case here for the OP.
      I respect my parents too, and I can respect them better if I have a job and make a career for myself. Let me ask, when you have a child, will you make their official name a traditional Vietnamese name? If no, ask yourself why? I recently had a new addition to my family, we gave my son a Chinese name that we use at home, but officially he is Lucas. Why? Because as tolerant as most Australians are, you and I have surely experienced racism and would try our best to ensure our next generation does not.

      • [Deactivated] on 07/02/2015 - 11:10

        I have two kids, both with western names as I have an Australian partner. Their middle names have an asian background to them. My parents named me dung (common Vietnamese name, but a shocker in western society), the only time I felt like changing my name was when I was in my teens (just young and stupid), but as I have grown up, I respect the name and own it. I don't vary it, I smile when people squirm as they try and pronounce it, but I am lucky that I'm in a field (health orofessional) where jobs are plentiful.

  • arescarti42 on 05/02/2015 - 15:08
    +1

    It might be as simple as the labour market is currently really crappy. Youth unemployment and underemployment is currently up around 30% at the moment, so you're probably competing with an enormous number of other candidates, many of whom may be more qualified than you

    If your field of engineering has anything to do with the mining industry, then I imagine there's a flood of experienced engineers currently leaving the mining industry that you have to compete with as well.

    Keep trying!

  • llllllllllllll on 05/02/2015 - 16:09

    I got citizenship now but I was in the same situation after graduating with a Temporary Resident visa so I hope I can share some expreience.

    I always use an English name on my resume, and stick to that name until the contract signing where I will ask them to make a note of my original name. At that stage, surely they can't say no.

    Also I don't mention which visa I was on unless they ask (of course my visa gave me the right to work full-time and wasn't like expiring in 6 months time when applying for the job)

    Make the employer focuses on your skills, not your race background, your name, or your visa (but you have to get a legal visa so not causing them trouble).

  • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2015 - 16:09
    +2

    I don't know if anyone has suggested this because I haven't read all of the posts here but perhaps you could consider spelling your name phonetically on your resume?

    Put your name (phonetic pronunciation) last name. This way it catches someone's eye and it helps them pronounce it.

    People have called racism and I don't think that's true. People are just more comfortable with what they are familiar with. If your name is unique or hard to pronounce it might be as simple as people being embarrassed pronouncing your name. I doubt many interviewers look at your resume, see you name, think "what!? a foreigner! No way! chuck resume in bin"

    Good luck.

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