OzBargain Updates: Development, Promotions, Moderation

I thought we could start an ongoing post letting people know about some of the things we are working on, discussing, technical developments with the site etc. We want to be as transparent as possible with what's going on so I'm thinking a small weekly or so comment would be good? Not sure if people will find this interesting but we are constantly working on and discussing things. To put it in perspective we have 1012 threads in the moderator forum with almost 10,000 comments. Given there is only a handful of us it's a lot of discussion!

Recent Technical Developments (last 2 weeks):

  • Exclude expired deals from newsletters. A member contacted us asking why we are including expired deals in the newsletter. A lot of deals on OzBargain expire quite quickly especially if you are setup to receive the 7am newsletter. Did you know you can change what time you receive your newsletter? Go to Account-Edit-Newsletters and you can pick to receive it in the morning, mid-day, or in the evening.

  • A couple of related issues. A user can't edit a post if the store is banned. Why would this happen you ask? Well, from time to time, we get a flood of people posting the same deal more than likley because people receive an email from a retailer. The other day it was JB Hi-Fi. So we banned JB for a short time to stem the duplicates. So now users can edit their posts when the store is ban. We also added shorter ban times so we can ban a site for 24 hours with a link to the more than likely duplicate post. Trying to prevent duplicates before people post is a never ending task but little by little we are getting there.

  • We often get new users sockpuppeting. The reason always is I didn't know I couldn't do that (blame Facebook liking). Well, now first time voters will receive a short confirmation confirming it's the first deal they are voting for and that they shouldn't vote if they are affiliated (friend, family, etc.) otherwise the store will be banned. This will hopefully make things clearer.

  • Did you know we have a Facebook page? OzBargain has been posting frontpage deals that reach 50 votes automatically (we also manually write posts). Well the guy who wrote the RSS Facebook plugin decided to fix something but has broken other things, so for the past week it looked like we are writing the posts instead of users. Well, we're still trying to get a permanent fix but we've added poster name and deal title to the posts now.

  • Lots of bug fixes and internal stuff that's too hard to explain.

Promotional activities (last 2 weeks):

  • We recently asked users to pick a charity that OzBargain can donate money to. Read the thread here. We ended up donating money to both Orange Pigeon and Swags for Homeless.
  • There will be some upcoming competitions for small denomination gift cards. It should be fun and simple. Won't even require you moving from your computer. Hopefully, that will happen starting next week.
  • We also have plans to have a big competition with a bigger prize. That will be later in the year and will involve people moving from their computer.
  • Meetup. The Brisbane Meetup seemed to go well. I'm in Melbourne and Scott/Moocher are in Sydney. It's likely that the next meetup will be in one of those cities. If anyone has suggestions for places in Melbourne (possibly with a group buy deal), we'd love to do one. Of course, any of you can organize one and OzBargain will be happy to help out.

Moderator discussion (last 2 weeks):

There are lots of things discussed here but probably can only discuss non user specific issues and nothing revealing our internal secret sauce of catching spammers and sockpuppeters.

  • IRC. People have asked for live chat function a couple of times. We trialed it out and it works quite well other than the fact that I can't remember any of the commands. We need to find the best way to integrate this into the site (or not).
  • Discussion of blocking overseas voters from voting. Overseas users are where a lot of our time is spent. There are some issues with this that need to be sorted.
  • Voting and reporting changes. This is an ongoing issue with many different proposals. Some users like the neg vote as is, some want to get rid of it, some just want to vote without commenting, some want voting with a list of reasons, etc.
  • Inappropriate or confusing usernames. Yes, some people have some creative yet profane ideas when it comes to usernames.
  • Competitions within deals. We have been allowing deals that additionally add a competition within their deals (some trivia question, guess the vote count at a certain time). The latter was banned as it involved people artificially voting and also people voting for the deal to get to the number. It's cleaner if any competitions go in the competition forum where a rep if they want can mention it in their post. Deals should be about the deal.
  • Referral links in deal body. See post here. Another tough one. We want members to benefit if it doesn't cost the rest of the members anything. On the other hand, we don't want people posting "deals" just to get referral credit. As it stands, new users or those with a P in front of their name can't post referral links in deal bodies. Everyone else can but are limited to 2 a week.
  • Selling and swapping forum. Improving it. Well, I still don't know why people would list things on there as OzBargainers are quite knowledgeable with prices. To each his own.
  • Duplicates. Another difficult subject and #1 moderation activity that gets people mad at us. See here. There will some changes with this as for example, a users posts a huge listing of deals from a retailer. Later on someone else posts 1 item from the huge listing. By the letter of the law, it's a duplicate. On the other hand, it's not always easy to see an individual deal in a huge listing of products. The trial we've had with allowing weekly and individual listings for supermarket deals has been very successful. Maybe this should be applied to other categories?

I could probably go on and on but that's a small taste of just the last 2 weeks. Check out the OzBargainBuzz twitter account for some more occasional behind the scenes stuff. Also check out the blog on Monday as we've put together an OzBargain Zeitgeist showing top store, deals by country, etc. If you like stats (who doesn't) then you hopefully will find that interesting.

Well if we get feedback from this thread, we'll continue the updates. Remember most of the discussion and technical changes are set off by feedback from the community. If you have a comment or suggestion, drop us a link in this forum.

Comments

  • +5

    Definitely continue the updates, this was a good read. I'm interested in how ozbargain is improving over time, just not interested enough to trawl thru the forums ;)

  • Re overseas voters… Based on where they are or where they registered or said where they were located?

    Reason I'm asking is, I am going overseas for 8 weeks… Would that stop me from voting? I would probably be visiting ozb while I am there. (Fomo), lol.

    • Yeah, that's one of the issues brought up. Additionally, there are some companies in Australia that are on US IPs as well as a good deal of members connect though their overseas VPNs. Currently, we block anyone who accesses OzBargain from a overseas IP address from PMing others. We can turn off the restriction on an account basis. It may be something we do for new users only so we don't have to deal with people messaging us everytime they go on holiday overseas ;).

      • Neil, there's also the issue of people who are here in Australia but whose work VPNs show US or overseas ip addresses.

        Are there any specific countries of origin that cause you more trouble , can you maybe put a country specific ban?

        • specific countries of origin that cause you more trouble

          Well. The usual spammy countries, and then the countries with the cheap hosting and free VPN, i.e. US/DE/FR/UK, where many corporate IP addresses are marked as. So blocking the whole country is not that useful.

        • EDIT: Too slow. Answered above.

    • Would that stop me from voting?

      Not yet — as the code has not been developed.

      However once it's developed it would be similar to what we have with overseas comment throttling. Currently if your current IP address is overseas, you will not be able to post more than 5 comments over 24 hours period UNLESS you have already posted 100 comments showing that you are not a new overseas spammer.

      We'll do something similar with voting restriction. If you have already voted multiple times from an AU address, that would automatically unthrottle your account so you can vote freely regardless of your current location.

    • Reason I'm asking is, I am going overseas for 8 weeks… Would that stop me from voting? I would probably be visiting ozb while I am there. (Fomo), lol.

      Just something to note, Would it be that tragic if you couldn't VOTE while traveling.

      Why I ask, is that if this is difficult to implement, given the SP issues is this a small price to pay to stop some of this SP?

  • We also have plans to have a big competition with a bigger prize. That will be later in the year and will involve people moving from their computer

    Screw that! Lol

    Nice work on the Zeitgeist.. I was going to make one too but laziness got the better of me :P
    Good work guys

  • Hey - a newsletter! Great work Guys! Can we have a section for TOMORROWS special deals please? You know, what lies ahead, traps to avoid, future bargains that WON'T disappoint?? (Oh yeah - and congrats to the team on another EPIC OZBARGAIN YEAR)

  • After all - You're PROFESSIONALS now!

  • +3

    will involve people moving from their computer.

    /Table flip

    • No problem, the computer will move with me.

      (Packs laptop into backpack)

      • (Packs laptop into backpack)

        That's so 2000.

        Haven't you heard of a smartphone ;-)

  • Thanks for the transparency Neil. An interesting read!

  • +1

    Good post Neil,

    Wish I could + your initial post, very good post with lots of detail,

    perhaps the + voting a forum post should be suggested feature ?

  • In regards to the IRC chat client. With more and more people using this site on mobile devices(my iPad 90% of the time) it would not get used much, unless there is an irc app these days? Or a web based chat system added to the website that users can opt in/opt out, no guests, just registered users.. But then currently 450 registered users logged in, would be a lot.

    • Regarding to real time chats, there are a few options:

      1. Web based chats. Easier integration with existing OzBargain accounts. Easier to implement and modify because of our existing experience with web apps. However it's something else that we need to maintain.
      2. IRC on existing network, for example on freenode or an Australian network. There are lots of GUI clients on any platform you can think of, and there are also web-based clients, bots etc. No server for us to worry about. However no account integration with OzBargain — your username/Nick on IRC would be different from here.
      3. We run our own IRC server. That sounds like a lot of work with questionable amount of gain. I am still searching for an IRC services implementation that allows me to hook in our own authentication. Yes we have more control, but "more work required" might mean it never gets done.

      I am not sure how many people are using IRC. I haven't actively used it for more than 10 years, but I know some people are on it 24 hours a day. For me (1) would be a bit closer to reality at the moment…

      • I can't say I have actively used irc for a good 5+ years too. Option 1 does sound good, as long as it works on mobile platforms too, I'll wait and see.

      • I agree that IRC is in decline. The ideal sounds like a custom IRC backend with a web interface, but that is really over complicating the problem for marginal gain.

        That said I am unlikely to use such a feature at all.

  • Re Exclude expired deals from newsletters:
    I notice that this is being applied to the Comments And Replies section for subscribed deals as well. Can this section included new comments for expired deals as it is handy to track follow-up issues.

    • I don't think we are currently excluding expired deals from news letter (unless I missed something in our commit logs). Neil's list here came from our discussions so it's work in progress. It's mainly complain from news letter recipients that they don't care about expired deals.

      Personally I do care about expired deals. We track deals so I love to see deals that I have missed. Maybe we will make this an option for users.

      Again, this thread is mainly for the developers and moderators to have regular updates on work in progress things — there is a lot of work happening in the background. If you have any feature request, post in the request thread. There is no guarantee all requests will be done though. Some are just unreasonable. Some might not fit into our overall plan. Some are just too technical challenging :P

      • I don't think we are currently excluding expired deals from news letter

        Sorry I did make that change last week to exclude expired deals from newsletters. I'll revert it back to the way it was as the default, and add the option for users to exclude them if they wish.

        • Newsletters sent out from now on will include expired deals. Registered users can opt-out of expired deals in their newsletter settings. To do so, go to 'My Account'->'Settings' -> 'Newsletter' (under edit tab).

    • I notice that this is being applied to the Comments And Replies section for subscribed deals as well.

      The change last week only affected the deals section. The comments and replies section lists nodes for which you are either the OP or have commented on, and has had new comments in the past 24 hours. It doesn't take the deal expiry into account.

      • I have subscribed to many deals and not all of them with new comments are appearing in the newsletter comments and replies section. It seems like only new deals in the last few days are being listed. I've manually went into older deals and I can see new unread comments in there. Not sure if other users experiencing the same issue?

        • The comments and replies section is for list items for which you are the OP or have commented on, not the ones you have only subscribed to (and not posted or commented on). You should be getting separate notifications (not the newsletter) for those subscriptions.

        • Ok, I am getting the separate notifications for those subscriptions (not posted or commented) but this is only the one email notification between my viewings of the thread. Can the newsletter also show total new comments since viewing?

        • Can the newsletter also show total new comments since viewing?

          It should already be displaying that under the thread title.

        • Want to revisit this - can the newsletter show ALL subscribed threads that have unread posts (not just my OP or commented on threads)?

        • Hmm, that could cause the newsletter to be very long for some users who subscribe to lots of threads…

          I just re-read your previous comment and realised that I should have addressed something there:

          but this is only the one email notification between my viewings of the thread

          You have the option of being notified for every new comment, not just between your viewings. In your subscription settings, in the first box, look for 'Thread notification frequency' and choose 'Send as many notifications as there are updates'. Would that be helpful?

        • I have tried that option but then there's too many emails especially on popular deals so I end up just deleting all.

          Perhaps an option to include all threads for the newsletter? Benefit of this is that from one glance I could see which are the most active threads and then choose which ones to go into.

        • So "Thread notification frequency" would list

          • Send at most one notification between my viewings of the thread
          • Send as many notifications as there are updates
          • Only summary of new comments in daily newsletter

          (assuming Daily Newsletter is turned on for this user)?

        • No, thread notification frequency setting would remain as is.
          Newsletter content setting would have two options to show:

          • New comments and replies in response to your posts and comments
            or
          • New comments for all subscribed threads
  • Regarding about IRC:
    UnrealIRCd: http://unrealircd.com/ - is the most popular IRCd out there, easy to configure easy to understand and use their commands

    Anope IRC Services: http://anope.org/ - is the most popular IRC services, a lot of helps in the forums and on their IRC network, plus a lot of third party modules available for add or change the functionality of the main Anope program


    IRC integrated in Website / Forum / CMS
    https://www.vulnscan.org/product/SQLMod-II
    This is the example: https://www.vulnscan.org/reqdemo

    This IRCd module is sold by Mr Syzop, UnrealIRCd head coder http://unrealircd.com/

    • +1

      Thanks. Those are useful, and I'll see how they would fit into our existing architecture.

  • +1

    Just some update regarding to our hosting situation.

    Currently, OzBargain is hosted on 2x Cloud VPS from Crucial Paradigm (Web + DB). They have recently released their "SSD Cloud VPS" which uses SolidFire SSD SAN, and we are planning to have at least our DB server migrated over to cut down wait on IO.

    I have been trying to set that VPS up over the last 2 days (and trying to get Crucial ironed out their bugs). However to use their new shared internal network both our existing VPS requires reboot to insert a new eth device. My plan is:

    • Bring down OzBargain by rebooting both existing servers.
    • Add new virtual ethernet devices to all servers.
    • rsync the database from old to new DB server.
    • Restart the site with web server pointing to the new DB server.

    I am thinking of doing it starting 6AM tomorrow morning, and hopefully have it completed before 7AM before our morning newsletters are dispatched. Unless there are unplanned issues.

    • +1

      Database server migrated. Everything seems to be fine so far…

  • +2

    1/2:

    Recent Technical Developments (last 2 weeks):

    • Allow users to pick if they want to receive expired deals in the daily newsletter. Discussion a bit further up the page. Just go to My Account and change you settings there if you want.

    • ABNs for rep posts to eBay. I don't know how many times I've heard users or mods ask, Where's your ABN?. Reps sometimes forget or some other reason. Well, there is now an ABN box that you fill in the first time. It will subsequently show up in future posts. This applies for reps only. As per our eBay guidelines, reps need to either be a top rated seller or have ab ABN. Regular users need to post deals from sellers who are Top rated sellers. See here

    • Strikethrough. Try it out in this thread

    • Allow users to uncheck the rep checkbox for comments if they are not a representative. We didn't anticipate so many people with fat fingers on their phone. Well, now you can uncheck the box.

    • More dynamic affiliate posting limits. Before it was 2 per 7 day period. Now the ability to add referral links is based on how popular your post is. This is to ensure people are actually posting to post good deals and not to just earn referral credit.
      More details

    • Slight font line spacing change. Most notable in the wiki.

    • Badges are automatically revoked if deal is unpublished or moved to the forum. This was brought on because of the fake Vinnie's deal.

    • Integration of Bucksback into the cashback system. Some deals you will see up to 3 different cashback offers. See here

    • Moocher has been working hard ironing out bugs so the site performs better.

    Promotional activities:

    • We recently had a photo competition where you had to guess 10 bargain related photos. Amazingly someone guessed all of them correctly. It would be good to do this again.

    • We are currently running a Valentine's Day Competition. :)

    • Bigger competition is still being formulated.

    • Seeing if we get free tickets for local festivals, events etc.

    Moderator discussion (last 2 weeks):

    • Unfortunately for us, OzPete has decided to step down. He was one of the first moderators on OzBargain and contributed with shaping much of the guidelines here. Moderating can be quite stressful so I think he's looking forward to traveling and relaxing a bit. What does this mean for the moderation team? Not sure yet.

    • Product releases vs. deals. Just discussed today but deals such as Nexus 4 from Google received a lot of votes but is it a deal? Surface tablet. Need discussion so we can have a blanket rule.

    • Some cool things coming down the pipeline in regards to partnerships that will assist OzBargain consumers. Not sure if we can say anything about this yet so I'll leave this to Scott.

    • More discussion on the voting system. Well…this subject never goes away nor is there a right answer. I think we discussed a bit about a weighted Karma system which sounds interesting on paper.

    • The usual sockpuppeting, abusive users, etc and also the discussions that were mentioned previously.
      Notables from TWAM:
      User responds to TWAM comment after 3 years.
      User wanted username changed to something more mature as when they registered they were young and wild. LOL.
      A user reported finding a website that is scraping all of OzBargain's deals and posting to another site.

    That's about it. I made this awesome animated gif to use on Twitter and then realized they banned animated gifs a couple of months ago. Cmon Twitter, animated gifs are the way of the future.

  • +1

    It has been 2 weeks since the last update. Here are some of the things that have been happening on the development end of OzBargain:

    • New media uploader — yes we announced that yesterday. There are more work to be done on this one but please use the announcement thread to discuss it.

    • MildSurprise integration — we are adding MildSurprise links to JB Hi-Fi, Officeworks and Harvey Norman deals for you to quickly look up the historical price. MildSurprise is developed by our community member Gecko to track prices on Australian retailer websites. This is now live on OzBargain (as of this morning).

    • Power Users Discussion forum — yes if you are a power user, you get to access a new forum here.

    There are quite a few things in the pipeline at the moment. @moocher has been working on some integration work with ProductReview.com.au to show reviews on the products and retailers associated with the deals. Hopefully we'll have initial version ready in March.

  • +2

    We just had a big roll out this morning including quite a few changes and new functionalities.

    • Comment Voting on mobile devices is now a 2 step process. My attempt to fix the issue mentioned here when people accidentally voted down comments on smart phones. You now need to click on a Menu button and then choose whether to +1 or -1 the comment.

    • Just checked in an initial integration with ProductReview. We are using their widgets to link products to their review pages. For example Nexus 4 product page here. Unfortunately the "linking" is pretty much a manual process at the moment.

    • Quite a few visual changes in this update. We have been using Silk icons when we first developed OzBargain. However bitmap icons don't look good on devices with different DPI — for example high res smart phones, tablets and laptops. They are also a bit distractingly too colourful. We have now migrated some icons to use Font Awesome which gives you a vector icon.

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