Hello all,
Today we noticed that the front glass door in our rented home was broken. it could be because of the air pressure in the hall way due to leaving the backdoor open. We leave the backdoor open for ventilation every night.
Its not a person who did it because we could have seen them doing it from the other window of the house.
who would pay for this, us or the landlord?its an old house and we are living here for the last 7 years.
No excuses mate. We did not break it.
They don't break by themselves…
they could break and it surely did.
@whatswrongwithya: The door has clearly swung shut too fast and shattered on impact, whether it was done by you or the wind, i would say it is your responsibility
Are you certain it didn't slap shut when you had that pressure thing in the house from having the back door open?
No, it happened between 10-11PM the front door was shut as we have 1 year old and we don't keep it open anyway.
who would pay for this
the wind ofcourse.
I once left my kitchen cupboard door open and I later went into the kitchen to see a number of glasses smashed on the floor. There's me thinking it was the cat when all along it was that pesky air pressure….
how did you verify it wasnt the diabolical cat?
Rear ended a car, who's at fault? Pushed by air, no insurance
Its not a person who did it because we could have seen them doing it from the other window of the house.
Not really, the tenant is only responsible for the fair market value of the item in question.
The landlord cannot claim the full cost of replacing something that was not new when it was damaged.
If this went to tribunal, they would only give the landlord a partial credit given the age of the door. And it would need to be a like for like replacement, or glass only replacement.
The landlord cannot claim the full cost of replacing something that was not new when it was damaged.
The cost of repair
Not even the cost of repair. It's basically proportional to the age as well.
I'd say they'd be lucky to get 30% of the cost of repair.
looks like pretty old glass - interesting stipple - 1930s ?
you can see not many will buy your argument about wind pressure - that would be an uphill battle to try to win that
insurance companies don't care - they just pay out - minus excess - then up the premiums next year (baskets)
if the landlord claimed heritage that could be difficult to find and expensive
if a standard glazier replaced it with privacy/patterned glass, $1-200 ?
ask the agent/owner nicely and see what they say.
minimum effort case nobody does anything and when you move out, you get your bond back.
worst case you fight for your rights - they fight for heritage replacement - you get evicted, they deduct from your bond and still sue you for more costs, and then blacklist you on the agents database.
likely result - somewhere in between … ;-)
Alternative scenario, you move out, immediately claim for the bond leaving them to have to apply for xCAT.
They take you tribunal. Tribunal laughs at them for asking $1200 for 1930's glass. They get $200. However they end up paying $200 in filing fees and $500 in agent representation fees.
No one is getting evicted. You cannot evict a tenant for cracked glass.
Since landlord doesn't live in that house, it is your responsibility.
Its not a person who did it
what about an animal?
who would pay for this
You.
At least nobody got hurt… make sure to clear up all the shards. Nothing worse than getting a sliver of glass in your foot.
Nothing worse?
Two slivers of glass would be worse.
Or one in each foot.
make sure to clear up all the shards
There’s an Engadine Maccas joke in there somewhere
Lego is worse.
Just replace it yourself with some 3mm frosted acrylic.
Ideally should be a like for like unless the landlord approves otherwise.
Could be very difficult to find a piece like that, plus it’s an access door so the sooner it is fixed the safer. Swap to acrylic first and then take the time to find a similar replacement.
Any frosted glass will do as a replacement provided you get Landlord approval.
why dont you put yourself as the landlord, who do you think should fix it?
(fropanity) the landlord. Let's cry harder for the landlord class.
As a renter, you wake up one morning and notice a window has just cracked through no fault of your own, who do you think should fix it?
I am an owner and my house currently has a cracked window that no one touched/hit/broke/damaged/bird flew into it/lawnmower rock/anything. Just one day we heard a pop sound and a window cracked for whatever reason… Maybe a stress fracture from when it was cut, fitted or manufactured, who knows, if it was a rented property, do you think I should make the tenant pay?
through no fault of your own
A big assumption here…
OP stated they didn't break it, yet you want to side automatically with the Landlord.
OP stated they didn't break it
Very unlikely…
Sounds like they're trying to find excuses for breaking it.
you want to side automatically with the Landlord.
Even more unlikely that the landlord broke it.
@jv: lmao so you'd side with a landlord automatically, as stated. The OP states they did not break it.
You're cooked, to the enth degree.
@jv: It's barely 11AM and you're already on the terps, mate? Where did I say the LL broke it?
OP has paid that LL's mortgage for seven years.
OP has paid that LL's mortgage for seven years.
No, they pay rent if they are using a standard rental agreement.
@jv: You're so desperate to side with the LL you think OP would post here, anonymously, and lie to OzBargain. Critical thinking isn't your strong point, huh?
You're so desperate to side with the LL
No, that is only in your imagination.
Unless you can prove the Landlord was there and broke the door, the responsibility is with the person renting the home not to damage the property they are renting.
@ThithLord: Let’s keep our focus on what happened. The OP heard a loud noise, suggesting the door swung open and broke by itself, likely due to negligence from the renter not securing it properly. Using a door stop or similar precaution is a basic responsibility to prevent such incidents if you know it's a draft prone area.
Full disclosure. I own a single investment property, initially intended as our long-term residence before we had the opportunity to build elsewhere. Selling at that time would have meant a significant loss, so we decided to rent it out. This isn’t about profiting at the expense of tenants. Many renters prefer the flexibility of renting over buying, as they aren’t locked into one place. I handle accidental damages without passing costs onto the renters. Regarding property investment, I agree that if someone only invests heavily in property without diversifying, you profit at tenants’ expense. In this specific case, however, the responsibility for the damage clearly lies with the renter.
The OP heard a loud noise, suggesting the door swung open and broke by itself, likely due to negligence from the renter not securing it properly
You came to that conclusion all by yourself.
OP has stated there were cracks in the pane that they reported to the Real Estate many months/years before, which was not actioned.
Case closed.
@ThithLord: Not per his original post, which is what I am going off.
Also I know it's difficult for some to not throw insults when having a civil discussion online. But you do you. Lucky the case is closed so I don't have to continue talking to an angry troll.
Have a good one, if you can.
Not per his original post, which is what I am going off.
Then why did you say the below? That's not in OP's post.
The OP heard a loud noise
Try not to be so smug, fella.
OP has stated there were cracks in the panel
Not per his original post.
it could be because of the air pressure in the hall way due to leaving the backdoor open
Original post. Air pressure, implying it slammed shut.
Just returning the same amount of smugness you have been dishing out. Give and take, fella.
EDIT.
Look… All our smugness and bias' aside. In this particular instance, if there were existing cracks in the glass which were brought up in the past, then sure. That may not have helped with the shattering. There is still the question of how those cracks got there in the first place (could have slammed open/shut in the past which is why OP mentioned the air pressure). Who knows, except OP.
If it were me, I would think that if someone has decided to call this place home for 7 years and I haven't had any issues with them, then I'd look into fixing it. Shit happens.
Another classic shitpost from you. "The landlord class." Lol.
Actually, this is the first time I haven't seen a barrage of landlord-hate. Just a couple of haters today.
OP has paid that LL's mortgage for seven effing years
I doubt it…
They probably were just paying the rent to live in a property owned by somebody else.
If they wanted to pay mortgage, they would have bought their own property…
greedy profit.
Proof that they were making a profit ???
More likely the money was going to pay Dan's property taxes…
More likely the money was going to pay Dan's property taxes…
Don't like maintaining an asset and paying the taxes due? Invest in something else, then.
and paying the taxes due?
They weren't due… Dan created them.
Makes sense to pass them onto renters.
Sell up.
Nah…. I like to have properties in my investment mix…
Diversification reduces risk.
@jv: You get what you vote for. Did you expect anything better from an authoritarian pee wee who runs over kids on their bikes and blames his wife?
You get what you vote for.
What did I vote for?
Two thirds of Victorians did not vote for him.
@jv: Maybe those 2/3rds should have all voted for one other party instead of multiple random ones if Victorians hated him so much. Guess Victorians aren’t the smartest tools in the shed.
As a landlord myself, I actually am on the fence on this one. How can air pressure break glass, unless the pressure was extreme? Perhaps wear and tear due to age of the glass or poor design.
years ago RAAF jets, I think the Mirage III that we had through to the late 80s broke the sound barrier over glasshouses in Virginia/Andrews Farm SA. The sonic boom (ie. airpressure) shattered the glass.
Lol.
As dense as the OP may come across, I'm pretty sure they'd notice the almighty, earth-shattering sound of a f**king sonic boom overflight, especially if it's low enough to the ground to shatter glass windows. It's one of those things you really can't miss nor mistake for anything else.
it's more likely that a change in temperature caused it, and being up to 50-100 years old evidently, this glass just had it. Could have been hit one too many times in the past
It's a large piece of old ordinary glass, full of flaws that eventually grew into a crack and broke. Being on a door doesn't help.
Back door AND front door were left open, gust of wind caught the front door and it slammed shut, breaking the glass as a result.
Whatever the cause, real or imagined, get your cheque book ready.
Fix it like a landlord would, slap a piece of board over it and call it a day.
it could be because of the air pressure in the hall way due to leaving the backdoor open
Are Mythbusters still going?
Glass looks to have broken from the inside from the pics. Unless you have a jet engine in the back yard it was very likely some physical interaction or a hard slam shut……….
Wont cost too much if you measure it carefully and replace it yourself. Give the actual opening size to the glass folk and theyll cut a size that will fit.
Yes, its protruding outwards.
at around 10-11PM I was on the couch and wife and kids were asleep thats when we bith heard a bang.
The agent called to tell they have someone booked to do the job but now i am a bit scared as they would charge x10 times.
So you heard a bang loud enough to wake your wife?
Was that the open door slamming shut due to the back door also being open? The debris has been ejected outwards which suggests that either the door was slamming shut or the glass was impacted from the inside.
If it was really just exploding glass, debris would be both inside and out.
Tenants responsibility to repair
Case closed
Bloody OP didn't include this in their original post.
Replacing it yourself would probably be cheaper than starting an argument with the LL and them possibly raising rent or evicting you. I'm no expert but it shouldn't be too expensive to replace with a piece of frosted glass. Might even be cheaper to replace the entire door.
Agree, if I was the landlord, and if the tenant was a good one, then, i’d be inclined to wear the cost, or maybe see if we could come up with a compromise, e.g., LL pays for a new door, tenant installs the door if they are handy…
As the tenant of the property, you are responsible for any damage beyond fair wear and tear. As this would be classified as damage, you (the tenant) would need to pay for the repair. It would be cheaper for you to arrange to get it fixed opposed to the landlord. Looking at the photo, I would expect around $200 - $300 for the replacement.
this is how it should be seen, now the OP could approach the agent / LL & there's a small chance the LL would cover it, but in most circumstances it'll be the tenants responsibility unless they can prove they were not at fault. Have seen similar enough times, as someone else said get a piece of frosted glass to replace it, do not use the agents trades as you will most likely pay more especially if they try to find similar glass (which will be an expensive nightmare)
The problem is if there are multiple panes of glass on the single door. The new glass should match the glass on the rest of the door.
did you look at the photo OP linked to?
This is classified as damage but it's not damage done by the tenant unless the landlord can prove it
you might think that, it doesn't tend to work that way. Say it was just cracked & left until the tenant moves out, it'll be flagged & come out of bond or tenant asked to rectify. Or the tenant puts a piece of wood over it … same senario
I'm not saying it's right just what tends to happen
These get flagged but they damage that the tenant is not liable when they moves out. The tenant 100% can dispute this.
Wall/carpet stains, holes in walls, general cleanliness, etc comes out of the bond. The landlord is responsible for cracks from old windows, shower screens, etc not done by the tenant. The general onus on the landlord to prove that the tenant caused the damage especially if the property is old.
@Keegz: If the window wasn't broken before the tenancy and broken after, then the blame is on the tenant. Open and shut case even for VCAT or whoever.
Even if the tenant didn't cause the damage they are still responsible for the damage.
I had a spooked wallaby smack headfirst into a sliding door and crack it, and even with photos of the captured wallaby in hand I was still liable to pay the glass excess on my contents policy.
@Switchblade88: In your case, the damage was done by a "visitor" of the property. Includes any kids, pets and animals that come into your property. Different scenario compared to major wear and tear.
@Switchblade88: The tenant doesn't need to prove anything. The landlord has to prove that it is NOT wear and tear and find some other explanation
Another train of thought -
A tree falls over from a storm and smashes the window.
Should the tenant pay or should the landlord just go through insurance (twist, the owner won’t because the excess is more than the cost of a replacement window)
(Please note I was a renter at the time and had this exact scenario happen)
Owner paid - we’d been there 3 or 4 years at the time.
Other plot twist, I was the one that caused it by slamming it too hard because the people upstairs had a screaming baby and the storm wasn’t the cause but a convenient excuse.
Hash tag be a good tenant and good things happen.
define good. Sounds like fraud to me.
If it was legit the tree, then I'd ask who's tree it was.
If tenant hadn't kept it trim, could possibly be on them. But otherwise, the landlord's tree broke the window.
However, as a tenant you'd only be responsible for a proportion of the damage depending on how old the door is.
For example if it's a 7 year old door, the landlord would have to contribute as well.
It's more likely due to the age of the panel and years of heating and cooling and expansion of the timber frame holding the glass panel which will gradually stress the glass until it finally gave way. Unlikely due due to air pressure at sea level or thereabouts.
It could even have been a stray bird.
The glass before it completely shattered was protruding outwards so the bird hit is not possible. My wife mentioned she reported some tiny cracks to the landlord once few years ago (we are living here since late 2016). It could be cracked because of the reasons you have mentioned above.
Glass can crack like that from temperature changes or wear and tear, being old, door warping. But also it could be due to you slamming it one too many times (which the agent may try to claim whether it is true or not). In your favour you can see there is no impact strike so you didn't hit it or knock something into it.
Hopefully your wife has some of the times she has mentioned the tiny cracks to the landlord in text or email (or you have a good LL who remembers these conversations) which means they realise it most likely just grew over time and broke naturally so don't try to bill you - especially if you are a good tenant who has been there 7 years.
yet another one who wants us to back them up and give them support to show their landlord 'proof' that they should fix. You rent the property, it's your damage, you fix it.
it's your damage
Is it? They said it wasn't.
So you are linking to another comment where you and another commenter are just refuting the OP's claim that they didn't cause the damage?
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16250127/redir
The person who broke it.
Sounds like you're trying to find excuses for breaking it.