Hello all,
Today we noticed that the front glass door in our rented home was broken. it could be because of the air pressure in the hall way due to leaving the backdoor open. We leave the backdoor open for ventilation every night.
Its not a person who did it because we could have seen them doing it from the other window of the house.
who would pay for this, us or the landlord?its an old house and we are living here for the last 7 years.
This is classified as damage but it's not damage done by the tenant unless the landlord can prove it
you might think that, it doesn't tend to work that way. Say it was just cracked & left until the tenant moves out, it'll be flagged & come out of bond or tenant asked to rectify. Or the tenant puts a piece of wood over it … same senario
I'm not saying it's right just what tends to happen
These get flagged but they damage that the tenant is not liable when they moves out. The tenant 100% can dispute this.
Wall/carpet stains, holes in walls, general cleanliness, etc comes out of the bond. The landlord is responsible for cracks from old windows, shower screens, etc not done by the tenant. The general onus on the landlord to prove that the tenant caused the damage especially if the property is old.
@Keegz: If the window wasn't broken before the tenancy and broken after, then the blame is on the tenant. Open and shut case even for VCAT or whoever.
Even if the tenant didn't cause the damage they are still responsible for the damage.
I had a spooked wallaby smack headfirst into a sliding door and crack it, and even with photos of the captured wallaby in hand I was still liable to pay the glass excess on my contents policy.
@Switchblade88: In your case, the damage was done by a "visitor" of the property. Includes any kids, pets and animals that come into your property. Different scenario compared to major wear and tear.
@Switchblade88: The tenant doesn't need to prove anything. The landlord has to prove that it is NOT wear and tear and find some other explanation
Rubbish. Tenants are liable for accidental damage.
Heard of renters insurance?
Another train of thought -
A tree falls over from a storm and smashes the window.
Should the tenant pay or should the landlord just go through insurance (twist, the owner won’t because the excess is more than the cost of a replacement window)
(Please note I was a renter at the time and had this exact scenario happen)
Owner paid - we’d been there 3 or 4 years at the time.
Other plot twist, I was the one that caused it by slamming it too hard because the people upstairs had a screaming baby and the storm wasn’t the cause but a convenient excuse.
Hash tag be a good tenant and good things happen.
define good. Sounds like fraud to me.
If it was legit the tree, then I'd ask who's tree it was.
If tenant hadn't kept it trim, could possibly be on them. But otherwise, the landlord's tree broke the window.
Tree on common property. Strata contracted to trim and maintain common property such as trees.
If a storm was the root cause, it’s an insurable event.
I’m a landlord myself, good luck going through insurance!
However, as a tenant you'd only be responsible for a proportion of the damage depending on how old the door is.
For example if it's a 7 year old door, the landlord would have to contribute as well.
It's more likely due to the age of the panel and years of heating and cooling and expansion of the timber frame holding the glass panel which will gradually stress the glass until it finally gave way. Unlikely due due to air pressure at sea level or thereabouts.
It could even have been a stray bird.
The glass before it completely shattered was protruding outwards so the bird hit is not possible. My wife mentioned she reported some tiny cracks to the landlord once few years ago (we are living here since late 2016). It could be cracked because of the reasons you have mentioned above.
Glass can crack like that from temperature changes or wear and tear, being old, door warping. But also it could be due to you slamming it one too many times (which the agent may try to claim whether it is true or not). In your favour you can see there is no impact strike so you didn't hit it or knock something into it.
Hopefully your wife has some of the times she has mentioned the tiny cracks to the landlord in text or email (or you have a good LL who remembers these conversations) which means they realise it most likely just grew over time and broke naturally so don't try to bill you - especially if you are a good tenant who has been there 7 years.
Did she make the report in writing (email) ?
yet another one who wants us to back them up and give them support to show their landlord 'proof' that they should fix. You rent the property, it's your damage, you fix it.
it's your damage
Is it? They said it wasn't.
So you are linking to another comment where you and another commenter are just refuting the OP's claim that they didn't cause the damage?
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16250127/redir
Yes, if the property is newish not when the property is 40 years old.
if this happened in my rental i would just pay for it and forget about it. i wouldnt even bother the rental/landy. the less i interact with them the better for us all.
When you leave external doors open (especially ones with glass) they should be wedged to prevent this very issue.
The maindoor is always closed. The back door is open for ventilation.
Ahhh gotcha. For some reason I read it as both doors open.
If it's been 7 years, and the landlord has been reasonable for everything else, just pay to fix it yourself.
The cost of the glass isn't much but the labour would be high.
take out the sash bead moulding, measure the opening and get a glazier to cut size to suit.
install glass with silicone and then reinstall sash bead moulding.
I had a tenant break a large internal sliding door and it wasn't expensive for them to replace.
How odd, you are a landlord and your opinion is for the tenant to pay. Certainly not biased.
Nope, I'm a reasonable landlord but it's been 7 years since they started living there. Glass rarely crack without impact.
I'm pretty sure my tenant (car) ran over my water meter causing a leak. Water meter is too close to the driveway so I paid for the repair. Plumber also installed a metal stake.
So you admit the water meter is too close to the driveway, and you got the plumber who did the repair to install a booby trap too that is likely to damage someone's car (on account of it being too close to the driveway)? Classy.
@tenpercent: Been there for 50 years.
Older houses had water meters close to the boundary fence and driveways close to the fence.
It’s close to the driveway but if you stick on the pretty wide driveway, you’ll be fine.
I guess you’ll bollard one a booby trap too.
@Bruceflix: LL (probably):
If ya don't lick it you'll be ok. I paid the plasterer who repaired it to paint it with an old can of lead based paint I had in the shed too.
@tenpercent: You missed the bit where he paid for it though. And then increased the rent on the next lease.
My shower wall just exploded. Only a few years old. Happens more than you think
If it's been 7 years, and the landlord has been reasonable for everything else, just pay to fix it yourself.
I shudder to think how much OP paid to that LL over seven years yet you have the temerity to suggest OP covers the cost of a window they didn't break?
been quite windy in Mel these past few days ..
Like never seen before.
When I rented 13 years back our Veranda door got slammed in wind and glasses broke. Raised to the PM citing small child at home has a risk, they replaced within 24 hours. No q asked. Unless the PM is a dick or the LL, should go easy.
We a 5 year old and 1 year old and yes it was bit scary as the glass kept breaking down. This has been replaced already by the tradie sent by the RE (not heard about billing yet)
The glass had some little cracks notified to the landlord by my wife sometime ago in the last 2-3 years.
Last night was the night when it cracked. The tradie believed it got damaged by a hit but we know its not the case.
I thought all door glass has to be tempered glass. How does tempered glass shatter?
Maybe that's your point to make with the PM? "Installed glass not up to standard."
Be prepared for a shock when you get the bill.
If the repairer believed it was damaged by a hit, then that is what they will report back to the RE agent, and they will pass it on to you.
Fight it, or pay it, seems you have a choice.
Tenant: "Front door glass broke but I break it nor do I know how it broke."
Landlord: "…."
Reddit is your friend dear Mr. Landlord.
Looking at the style of door and glass it looks fairly old. LL should be picking this up due to age of the door/glass. Got to expect a door that looks 40+ years is going to have the glass weaken over time. GL OP.
What's your relationship with your landlord? I wonder how much it would actually cost to fix? Maybe I'm too soft on my tenants but for the sake of 300 bucks, I fell id cop it on the chin, a tax deduction anyway, but then again they've never paid me late, and every inspection I can pretty much eat of the floor how clean the place is.
show us a photo of you eating off the floor next time
Stage a break in. Now it's the landlord's responsibility
maybe auspost knocking too hard on your door?
TIL - interesting discussion. High-set house two doors up from me is rented. It's a standard high set with double garages beneath, and a few months ago the tenant reversed into the brick pillar between the two garage doors. So much damage done that the SES had to come out with huge hydraulic jacks and prop up the upper floor. I don't know why but I assumed the landlord would get it fixed via their building insurance, but tonight I've learned that's not the case. Probably explains why it took three months or so to get it fixed.
This would have been covered by insurance and the insurance would have gone after the car insurance. It can be a bit of a process.
That must have been one hell of a fart
Hi renter, was the glass broken before you rented the property?
Memory isn't that great.
Is this how you address all people who don't own a property?
No. But apparently cracks were previously reported to real estate.
Easy diy repair. Measure size, order, remove bead, re-use bead/trim or replace undercoat, paint.
My tenants told me to fix a window once because a bird crashed into it. Is that the landlord responsibility? No picture of dead bird or any imprints on the glass (sometimes you see some dust left behind in a shape of a bird)
If it's an old ass house and have old ass glass which the photo looks like it has as they don't make that type of glass anymore
The landlord should be ok to pay for it since the house is pretty old and it's reasonable that things break
Even if you slammed the door and it glass broke it should be covered because it shouldn't usually break
Few months ago someone posted that their toilet seat broke Landlord vs tenant responsible…. old ass toilet
I don't understand the photos… the first photo shows the glass cracked. How long was it like that? The next photo shows the hole with glass on floor.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the glass was always cracked that badly, it's only a matter of time before it gives way. Nobody would need to "break it" or slam the door, or air pressure or anything. Glass that's cracked that badly is hanging by a thread and will give way any time.
Put it this way if u own the house I wonder what excuse u will give yourself.
If tenant really think a rental property they don't have any responsibility at all your rent would be triple what u paying today if not more.
It seems like the door was slammed, possibly by the wind, which caused the window to break.
The tenant should be responsible for the cost, unless there was something beyond their control, such as a faulty door catch that allowed it to slam.
Or, the glass already was cracked?
Oh wait what, the glass was already cracked?! I missed that picture. Yeah the landlord should pay.
Actually you are not liable for the whole amount, only a depreciated / adjusted amount.
For example, if I destroy a 10 year old oven as a tenant, a tribunal would not expect me to cough up the full amount - because you'd in essence be renovating the landlords house via subsidy.
Similar to how ATO depreciation scales work, you just depreciate a door and installation and that's what you'd need to pay in damages.
I'm a landlord, similar sitation happened to my property where the tenant left the front door open and it slammed shut and smashed the window (allegedly). Leaving a door open for ventilation was considered normal and reasonable use of the property, so it was deemed not negligence. If this went to VCAT they would likely side with you.
If it was me, I would personally pay it, however you are not liable for it. The above comment is also correct if you were liable.
You
Is the first picture with the cracked glass a picture that the landlord/REA already has?
And the second picture is what happened just now?
If so, I don’t think you need to pay anything as the glass was already cracked.
This one is on you.
Do you have contents insurance (aka renters or tenants insurance)?
If so, the Public Liability section covers you for negligence.
Renters insurance are you for real? When landlords already have insurance for this exact scenario.
Right, and the tenant is the one who damaged the property.
Aside from the fact that the excess will wipe out most of the settlement anyway, the landlord is under no obligation to claim on their insurance. Ultimately, they'll take out out of the bond.
Do you also think you can claim on your neighbours car insurance for accidents that you have?
The tenant was doing nothing out of the ordinary and the glass broke. If the handle to the door broke to the property would you expect the renter to fix it ?
@oaks101: Funny how every single tenant ever swears they didn't do anything and things just magically break all of a sudden.
Imagine that!
In any case, if what you say is true, the renters insurance will seek recourse from the landlord.
@imurgod: This is the risk of an investment. Shit breaks and you will have tenants who are clumsy. OP has been in the property 7 years and I’m sure hasn’t been a PITA for the landlord over that course of time.
Look at the big picture here. This person has paid someone’s mortgage for 7 years. And you expect still expect them to fix the landlords 40 year old door? When did Australia get so backwards.
@oaks101: Like it or not, them's the breaks of renting.
On the flip side, the landlord could've kicked them out or raised the rent repeatedly over the 7 years.
Whatever the tenure, it doesn't give a tenant cart blanche to break things and avoid any responsibility.
The fact remains, whether we like it or not, the landlord remains the owner of the property and can do as they please with it.
Nothing stopping the tenant from buying their own property and breaking whatever they like.
@imurgod: Kick them out for one broken window? The cost to list and hassle of having new tenants move in and out…for that? And I have no doubt the rent was raised in the 7 years.
The landlord can’t do as they please whilst it is leased. They have a right to maintain the property and ensure it’s safe to live in.
Would love to know what maintenance was done over the course of the 7 year lease.
@oaks101: What?! Who said kick them out for a broken window?
You're making a huge amount of assumptions here and it's clear you've never owned a property.
@imurgod: You assumed they broke it on purpose? You assume all accidents are at the fault of the tenant regardless of knowing the age of the asset. Nothing you commented on contained factual knowledge, you assumed automatically the tenant was at fault.
It’s clear as day you do own property and clearly the problem in the Australian property market is people like you. I’m thankful I haven’t had a landlord like you, you seem like a really reasonable human being.
@oaks101: I'm very reasonable despite your assumption, thanks. You sound very entitled.
You're just going off your feelings, not fact. That's why you're making it personal and getting upset.
The tenant is in legal control of the property. If there is negligence on their part, they're liable (like, say, leaving the door open instead securing it).
No need to get upset at me because I made better choices in life than you did. That's on you.
@imurgod: Assumption after assumption. Gaslighting rubbish.
It sounds like you’re a boomer when you make comments like “choices in life”, are you 60+?
I can happily say I have made good choices for someone my age <30 with the circumstances people our age face.
@oaks101: Another assumption LOL…. I'm not much older than you (nowhere near 60 but I'll be in a position to retire well before then). I just don't make excuses and blame the world for my own failings.
I'm glad you've made good choices given how hard you have it in the best country in the world, which even contributes to you buying your first property.
Great job! Yay for you!
Just put the fires in the bag.
@imurgod: It is a great country. We are all very privileged to live here. We should take a step back and realise how lucky we are in comparison to other first world countries. I do worry for Australia when you see the likes of the UK and Canada flush their countries down the drain…just hope we don't make the same mistakes.
This is going to be fairly state specific - it also comes into that renting issue that the law can say one thing, but a bad relationship with your landlord will cause your life to suck no matter what, so consider the cost of the glass and the cost to your life going forwards.
In Victoria at least, the onus would be on the landlord to prove that the glass broke through your intentional or negligent act or omission. They might or might not be able to do this depending on the door, any cameras, witnesses, etc. They don't need to prove it 100%, it's civil and 51% likely is the threshold. Other states are likely to be different. I can pretty much guarantee without ever having gone through VCAT myself that if you claimed it broke due to air pressure you will be paying for the glass at a minimum, because that is the dumbest thing I've heard this year.
How funny that people are suggesting a 7 year tenant pay hundreds of dollars to repair some old piece of crap door.
In this case, I say it is the tenant's responsibility. Should be more careful and keep the door shut next time.
I recently had my rental property damaged by tenant and I had to fork out $2300 for the repair. Why? because it was asbestos. In QLD it is a legal requirement to have a smoke alarm in every room and have them inspected every year. The living room smoke alarm was going off and the tenant tried to turn it off by standing on a chair. She ended up falling and damaging the wall. Since we didn't notify her that the property was asbestos, it's on us. Part of me thinks why the smoke alarm was going off in the living room. Perhaps she was smoking…
Oh and another thing. She had cut a hole in my hardwood timber flooring (size of two mobile phones) for her Greyhound to to his business in. The property was reeking of dog piss. The flooring was also all scratched up than what it used to be. Paid $2200 to get it repaired. She argued with my agent and we only got $250 from the bond.
Now picture yourself in the position of a landlord. You make a relatively expensive purchase, the rent only covers 60% of the mortgage + some hefty bills, and your tenants damage your property seeking your $$ to fix it. I've been a landlord for many many years now and sometimes I just suck it up. I think to myself… perhaps it would have been better to just pay rent my whole life if tenants are given this much power. The bond and rent most people pay is peanuts compared to home ownership.
If you get a hire car, and something happens to it, then unless you can identify the party at fault, I believe you will have to foot the repair bill
Call the cops and tell them you think there's been a drive by?
Unfortunately the culprit is in the wind
The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind.
( Who remains unemployed and penniless to this day, so he/she aint forking out )
did you look at the photo OP linked to?