I don't have any ms paint diagrams. Apologise for my inability to meet the minimum Ozbargain standards!
Car A: Car entering the car park
Car B: Car leaving the car spot
I gave the dashcam copies to both drivers so they can show the recordings to their insurance providers.
One of the most obvious ones, clearly the person leaving the bay didn't look properly before pulling out. Not to mention at the speed they pulled out they had an ability to brake before contact but didn't.
Makes sense. I sort of saw it before it happened while driving behind Car A but not sure if being the driver of Car A while he was turning would have seen Car B leaving its car spot.
That's plumb.
Beaten all ends up
watto still asked for a review
This one is not as simple as people think. First, car park is different to road.
You can clearly see Car B was moving before car A came around the corner, and car A also has a responsibility to avoid a collision. You need to be more careful going around a corner in a carpark.
I'd be letting the insurance sort it. Good on you OP for giving them the video.
I am aligned with you. Just as my previous comment, i saw the car exiting the car spot and both cars were at such an angle that became a blindspot to each other.
Car A needs to not be driving so fast, didn't slow down for the turn, entered the car park on the wrong side of the road etc,
And as you said, car B was already in motion, was halfway OUT of the car space when car A cut in front, so should have given way to the car exiting.
And the speed car A was going once he entered the car park. Pretty sure he was accelerating round that corner having seen the car pull out of the spot thinking they could get past quickly.
Carpark rules are different. And whilst it's nice if the parked car gives way, the fact that idiot entered at speed, on the wrong side, one could argue the parked car had zero capacity to see it, let alone respond.
Both are at fault, until one is proven to be acting illegally. But in a carpark….
Car park rules are not different.
Please link to where you think that is the case
Road rule 74 is the one you are looking for, in case you were wondering
Didnt say the Road Rules didnt apply, I said who would be deemed at fault may change. Depending on the Carpark Act, if the person entering was doing more than the signed limit (quite likely, most people do more than 10 km/h), and whether they were on the right side, driving with due care.
Giving way is the least of the claims here. And with insurance, it always starts at 50/50
Having been involved in a very similar incident, I will say Car B at fault.
I was in a car park where I couldnt see past the car next to me as I started rolling forward (large van). Car coming down the carpark lane was clearly going too fast and ended up hitting the side of my front right quarter panel and headlight. I was found to be at fully fault by my company with the reasoning being that any vehicle leaving a parking space must give way too any traffic. Where blame can be apportioned is more where two cars are both leaving a parking space and collide.
In this instance, with only one car leaving I would say it is pretty clear cut.
I think the law will decide car B was at fault but if contributory negligence is a thing, I can see how things might turn out differently.
Regardless, if I was car A I'd be a bit embarrassed if other people saw that footage of the way I was driving.
An obvious one.
Driver of car A is at fault, as any driver would be if they made a turn without taking care that there wasn't something going on in that road that they needed to not come into collision with. Something on the road. A pedestrian. A car pulling out. Anything. In this case the driver of car B could not reasonably see that someone would come screaming into the parking lot and take that turn. The fact that A was in so much of a hurry that they didn't wait 'til they got to the actual entrance of the parking lot just demonstrates my point.
A driver pulling out of a parking spot or driveway only has to give way to vehicles driving down that road they are pulling out onto. Not to vehicles on another road that suddenly decide they want to drive down that road.
Just pointing out, it doesn't matter in this situation what Car A did before he entered the car park. That's a separate issue.
You also need proof of the assumptions you are attributing to Car B because "it seems like he was speeding to me" and "he shoulda done xyz" will have no effect on any legal obligations.
I believe that the length of that video and the interrupted coverage of car B as he turned the internal corner will be insufficient to have any meaningful influence on the legal findings, even on those points that are subjective.
All that video definitely shows at the legally defining moment that determines fault is that Car A drove into Car B who was immediately in front of him.'
All car A had to do was look straight ahead (he was after all moving forward), not withstanding that he had substantial uninterrupted peripheral visibility (you are after all supposed to give way to your right), and stop before he drove into Car B.
I mean stopping is pretty much one of the first thing they teach you in driving school.
https://imgur.com/a/kYUBSTP
what is this sign facing to??
also B at fault. it was pulling out from parking spot.
See the google maps above
the google street view image doesn't have the Give Way sign and that area to the right seems to be one-way looking at the angle car spots? i'm so confused… but I'm not from that area so I'm not familiar with that car park's layout.
Did car A put the left indicator on to turn left? Could not see if it was flashing or not. If it was off then car A otherwise car B.
No indicator, driving on the wrong side of the road, driving faster than the posted speed limit in the car park.
I bet those two cars and OP didn’t even take the train
its irrelevant to this discussion but mind you, i was actually picking up my wife who just got off the train…
Because that’s where the pickup zone is
what do you mean? the pick up zone is actually a bit further: https://maps.app.goo.gl/v6FgKdMBZTrn4J3R7
that incident happened at https://maps.app.goo.gl/b6Ws26M3opFKPheK9
video and street view images from Google Maps clearly show that its a Parking Area as shown below the Give Way sign on the video
Even I don't drive that fast in a carpark.
How fast was he going?
At what speed was car A travelling that prevented him from stopping before driving into a car directly in front of him? I mean, he wasn't even reversing out. He was driving forward.
You know, 99 times out of 100 there is no cam footage from a third persons perspective. When there is no footage or witnesses, its hard to convey each vehicles speed. With this footage, its obvious car A speed is a factor in the accident. How much weight to the outcome?, probably none.
I think there are two separate questions here - who insurance will rule is at fault, and who is morally at fault.
My guess is that insurance will rule B as being at fault, but my view is that both of them were not looking where they were going and both could have avoided the collision if they had more situational awareness.
The key moments for me are (apologies about the strange timestamps, smaller time is actually later, as they seem to be measuring time to the end of the video):
1) At 0:33, car A is entering the carpark completely in the lane going in the opposite direction - this makes it more difficult for car B to be aware of car A, and also means that car A is more likely to just speed through the turn rather than slowing down
2) At exactly from when the time ticks from 0:31 to 0:30, you can see that car B is already around half way out of the parking spot whilst car A is not yet in front of car B - this implies that the only way that car A got in front of car B was to be on the wrong side of the road (or attempting to go around car B exiting)
3) At 0:29, after car B has already stopped, you can see how far out of the box car B has already moved - it's already completely covered the left lane (from A's perspective), again implying that car A needed to go onto the wrong side of the road to get past
Conclusion really is that car A was careless and blatantly broke several road rules right before the accident. The curve around where car B was parked is designed to slow cars down - car A went on the wrong side of the road to go through faster and probably saw car B, but just expected B to give way. Car B wasn't looking (likely was looking left, instead of left and back), and did not see A come around the corner - from where B is, it's obvious that this should have been checked.
No love lost for either of the drivers IMO - car A was driving in such a way that deserved to be hit, car B was driving unaware / aloof, and will likely pay the price for that silliness.
The uber driver.
Both are turkeys. A needs to slow down and B needs to give way.
ESH
A was in a helluva hurry, but B wasn't checking for oncoming traffic.
B needs to give way. He hit A on the side.