Harvey Norman Refusing to Replace or Refund without Sending Back to Manufacturer. Is This Legal?

Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 21:04
Last edited 14/01/2025 - 21:10 by 1 other user

Hey all. I bought a Google Pixel 9 Pro XL phone recently and was pretty pissed off to find that it had bricked itself the other day (black screen of death, won't accept a charger or respond to anything). The phone is in basically brand new condition and has never been dropped or abused, and I went through all troubleshooting tips I could find and had no luck fixing it. The phone is totally bricked.

Harvey Norman said they were not required to offer a replacement, so now I'm stuck waiting God knows how long for them to send it to Google then have it repaired or replaced by them.

Is it legal under consumer law for them to have denied me a replacement at the store?

What about if I'd asked for a refund instead? I'm starting to think it may have been a better idea to have gotten a refund and chosen a different phone as I'm a bit worried the Pixel 9 Pro XL may be flakey and have inherent issues now.

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Comments

  • askbargain on 14/01/2025 - 21:25
    +14

    Why shop at HN?

    • Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 21:26
      +5

      Because they had price matched a Black Friday deal and added a $100 voucher on top.

      I generally try to avoid them too.

      • ATTS on 14/01/2025 - 21:35

        How did u get theextra 100$ btw.

        Also is hn bad since ur avoided when possible?

        • Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 22:52
          +1

          The voucher was just part of their Black Friday deals.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 14/01/2025 - 21:28
    +49

    accc guidelines

    A business has the right to assess the product or service before they provide a remedy.

    • MS Paint on 14/01/2025 - 21:42
      +59

      You should have waited a few hours before quoting consumer law in order to allow this thread to fester into a cesspool of personal opinions.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 14/01/2025 - 21:59
        +34

        My New Year’s resolution was to reduce my daily beer intake to 5 tinnies a day, KFC to maximum once a day, and be more genuinely helpful to the ozbargain community.

        I like to think I achieved at least one today. 🤙

        • Tiller76 on 15/01/2025 - 12:03
          +1

          So how was yesterday's KFC????

        • NagromNniuq on 15/01/2025 - 16:22

          Can this be the post of the year?

      • pegaxs on 14/01/2025 - 22:03
        +7

        Personal opinions make rants, cheers!

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 14/01/2025 - 22:49
        +5

        Cesspools make scents. Cheers

    • WatchNerd on 14/01/2025 - 21:46
      +1

      Nice use of the Google website. Thread closed.

    • Bonesaw321 on 14/01/2025 - 22:10
      +4

      A phone bricking itself is considered a Major Failure. "You are entitled to a replacement or refund for a major failure and compensation for any other reasonably foreseeable loss or damage". on a followup it also says "You are also entitled to have the goods repaired or replaced if the goods fail to be of acceptable quality and the failure does not amount to a major failure." However when a phone bricks itself thats a major failure.

      • Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 22:22

        Totally. That was my thinking and what I was focussed on when looking at the ACCC website before taking the phone back and I'm not sure whether the quote about assessment is legally definitive.

        I was (and am) justifiably pissed off about a major failure of an expensive product that was no fault of mine.

        [Edit] As I said elsewhere in the thread though, I do understand the need for businesses to protect themselves from customers abusing return/refund policies.

        • TheRealCher on 15/01/2025 - 11:24

          have had this happen on the google 8 pro - HN sent it off to Google and I had a new one in a week.
          It's a PITA…
          Are you in the right - probably.
          Would you like a quick resolution - probably.
          How much is your time and energy worth arguing with people who won't listen?

          The only thing that might help is if you ask them for a temporary phone while you're waiting for the replacement, but would you really want your data/life going through a second hand phone from HN?

      • gromit on 15/01/2025 - 18:06

        Depends entirely on the reason for bricking and they are entitled to assess it before a replacement is offered.

        • paulojr on 15/01/2025 - 18:35

          a consumer can't really brick a phone unless your a technical wizard or unless you "brick the phone" with a physical brick.. so visual assessment should be enough in store for either software bricking or other forms of bricking that would should some pretty nasty physical damage. ;) In any case.. manufacture has no role to play here.

      • Grunntt on 15/01/2025 - 13:56
        +2

        Abusiness also has the right to decide the remedy - whether to repair or replace.
        Its only a courtesy if the retailern decides to replace a product
        It depends what relationship they have with the supplier

        Why do you continue to spout your opinions as fact when you are constantly shown how wrong you are?

        ACCC

        When a business sells a product with a major problem, or a product that later develops a major problem, it must give the consumer the choice of a:
        refund, or
        replacement of the same type of product.

  • AngoraFish on 14/01/2025 - 21:29
    +12

    It is legal under consumer law for them to investigate the item and to make an assessment about whether it is a fault with the product or user error or accident. They aren't required to just accept your claims at face value.

    If the item itself is defective then, yes, you are entitled to get a refund, repair or replacement, any of which would be your choice.

    Sending the device to the manufacturer seems a reasonable first step to investigate the problem, and as Jimothy Wongingtons has noted, the business is entitled to undertake their own investigations.

    • Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 21:34
      -1

      It does seem reasonable for a business to be able to do this to prevent abuse of replacement and refund by customers. It's just damned annoying knowing that there was no fault of mine and I ended up with a very expensive brick in under two months of buying the phone. And now I have to wait for God knows how long without a replacement.

      • AngoraFish on 14/01/2025 - 21:37
        +2

        My experience is that these kinds of things do tend to get resolved in the customer's favor, however going without a phone for weeks is a significant disincentive to pursuing your rights for sure.

        I've been there myself. Indeed, I've ended up buying a replacement in the interim and then ended up with two new phones :-/

        • muzzamo on 15/01/2025 - 17:09

          In this instance though, because it's a major failure, he should be able to go and buy a new phone and then get a refund for the current phone.

          Harvey norman may not play ball with this easily though so YMMV.

      • MS Paint on 14/01/2025 - 21:43
        -2

        And now I have to wait for God

        Religion ≠ consumer law

        • Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 22:43
          -3

          It was just a turn of phrase that you misquoted, Mr r/atheism edgy Redditor.

        • SlickMick on 15/01/2025 - 09:56

          God > consumer law > religion

      • oscargamer on 14/01/2025 - 21:58
        -1

        Small brick

        More a brickette

      • JonnyQuest on 15/01/2025 - 12:52

        It's always good to have an older but functioning - 'back up phone' for these types of emergencies that are totally unplanned. If not, then maybe buy a cheap, but well reviewed Motorola, TCL, etc. for that purpose ? Or if you don't wish to support a Chinese Company directly ( who's funds may return in part to the CCP) pay a bit more for a cheap Samsung perhaps ?

      • gimme on 15/01/2025 - 17:26

        They don't know that though. For every genuine case like yours there are probably several idiots (who have dropped their phone in the toilet) they have to deal with on a regular basis. So it's FAIR for them to have it assessed professionally. It may be inconvenient for you but life isn't always convenient.

  • 7ekn00 on 14/01/2025 - 21:33
    +7

    Should have spoken to Google directly, good chance they would have just sent out a new one ;)

    Similar thing happened to me with a Pixel 7 Pro purchased from OfficeWorks (cracked glass on the camera bump), spoke to Google, they sent a new one the same day (they didn't even request proof that I had sent them the cracked one) …

    • Bruceflix on 14/01/2025 - 21:36

      Samsung should take note of this service!

    • Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 21:49

      As soon as I walked out of the store this is exactly what I started to think. I'm now reliant on Harvey Norman sending things back and forth instead of just dealing with google directly myself. 🫤

      • eug on 14/01/2025 - 22:58
        +1

        JB is pretty good too, a few years ago I had a problem with a Pixel and it got swapped on the spot in-store with a new boxed replacement.

        • Loopholio on 15/01/2025 - 10:15

          Same here. I had to return two new (days old) phones to JB Hi-fi and it was easy enough.

          • JumpingUnicorns on 15/01/2025 - 13:44
            +1

            @Loopholio: OP hasn't stipulated the timeframe, that will play a role in what the retailer can do

            • Grunntt on 15/01/2025 - 14:00

              @JumpingUnicorns:

              OP hasn't stipulated the timeframe

              Well, actually they did -

              I ended up with a very expensive brick in under two months of buying the phone

              • JumpingUnicorns on 15/01/2025 - 14:01

                @Grunntt: Oop okay well then the days old example above doesn't relate to OP. Two very different time frames. 30 days is usually the DOA period for a direct swap but varies by Brand.

                • Grunntt on 15/01/2025 - 14:03
                  +1

                  @JumpingUnicorns:

                  Two very different time frames. 30 days is usually the DOA period for a direct swap but varies by Brand.

                  Yeah, I would see sending it away for assessment as being a pretty reasonable thing considering it's been in use for almost two months.

  • Bruceflix on 14/01/2025 - 21:35
    +3

    They will find out that you dropped it in the toilet.

    But seriously, they've sent it for assessment. Then when it's known why the device failed you can take further steps.

    • AngoraFish on 14/01/2025 - 21:40

      You say seriously, as if bricking my phone by dropping it into the toilet hasn't happened to me more than once. :-/

      • WatchNerd on 14/01/2025 - 21:50
        +1

        If you sit down to pee then you won't be able to do this. Also it stops overspray & splashback.

        • Bruceflix on 14/01/2025 - 21:56
          +2

          Life finds a way

        • AngoraFish on 14/01/2025 - 21:58
          +6

          See, I have this habit of putting the phone into my shirt pocket before sitting, so that I have easy access to reading material without having to reach around in pockets somewhere around my ankles while I do my business.

          The problem with this approach is that if someone has left the seat cover down I have to bend over to lift up the seat cover, at which point the phone has a tendency to wiggle out of my shirt pocket and take a quick splash in the pool while I'm distracted.

          The solution to this problem is clearly to either buy shirts without pockets, toilets without seat covers, or to poop standing up. Still, I like shirts with pockets.

  • Bonesaw321 on 14/01/2025 - 22:06
    -1

    "You are entitled to a replacement or refund for a major failure and compensation for any other reasonably foreseeable loss or damage."

    https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic…

    • Bonesaw321 on 14/01/2025 - 22:07
      -3

      When a phone bricks itself, thats considered a "Major Failure" your entitled to a full refund

  • JimmyF on 14/01/2025 - 22:26
    +1

    Is it legal under consumer law for them to have denied me a replacement at the store?

    Yes standard practice for phones, they are repaired.

  • Selka on 14/01/2025 - 22:51

    When a business sells a product with a major problem, or a product that later develops a major problem, it must give the consumer the choice of a:
    refund, or
    replacement of the same type of product.

    The business is allowed the send the phone back to the manufacturer for review however to check if the problem with the product was caused by the consumer misusing it.

    Most likely they will just try troubleshoot to see if its somthing minor or check the liquid damage indicators.

  • Gunnar on 15/01/2025 - 00:02

    In what is a first, HN have done nothing wrong. They need to follow what the manufacturer states and they are under no obligation to provide you with a replacement (unless it’s within the product’s DOA period).

    I’d also never buy electronics from HN because of how terrible their returns policy was.

    I worked in retail repairs and returns many years ago (not HN) and what you’ve been told is standard practice.

    Best bit of advice I can give you is don’t be rude to the staff serving you. If you act rude and entitled your repair will take a hell of a lot longer than it needs to be.

    I once delayed a repair by over two weeks only because the person was incredibly rude to my staff. I did it by taking my sweet time sending the package out and then calling the customer back when I got the replacement so essentially what would have been a1 week fix, took 3 weeks

    • Bruceflix on 15/01/2025 - 00:36
      -1

      Australian consumer law legislates if device is not repaired in a reasonable time customer is entitled to a refund.

  • ihbh on 15/01/2025 - 07:32
    -1

    I'm starting to think it may have been a better idea to have gotten a refund and chosen a different phone

    … and keep or hand back the $100 voucher?

  • FoxJump on 15/01/2025 - 07:53
    +2

    my zenfone 8 bricked itself
    i took to jbhifi. they said they had to send to get assessed

    i said ok

    next day, i go and buy a new phone at jbhifi

    two weeks later jbhifi says yep theyll give me a gift card for the value of my bricked phone..i said. nope. i already bought a replacement phone from you so ill take cash - and they did a bank transfer to me

  • Potatohead82 on 15/01/2025 - 09:49

    I had a similar situation with a laptop I purchased from them years ago. It was slow and unsable after it first updated all drivers. I took the laptop to them, they "inspected " it and said : it is what it is, if I had any further issues I had to take it with the manufacturer. I ended up selling the laptop.

    I'll never buy electronics from HN again, as their after sales service is pretty bad.

  • JohnnyP on 15/01/2025 - 10:07

    JB are the same. Wife pixel 8 is green screening from time to time (before 1 year of ownership). Went before xmas and it was a 4-6 week turnaround time. Ended up just buying another phone.

    Might use the pixel 8 as trade in bait

  • jhaley3180 on 15/01/2025 - 10:39
    +4

    I've run Pixel phones since the first Pixel. I've had two warranty issues. Both occasions I've dealt directly with Google via live chat. They have asked a couple of questions then immediately dispatched replacement phones that day. I've received the replacement and had two weeks I think to return the warranty issue phone. Similar stories from friends with other Google products like wifi router.

    They even have an online tool for you to check whether your device is still within warranty and start the claim process.

    https://support.google.com/store/answer/6160400?hl=en

  • miicah on 15/01/2025 - 13:48

    When my S20FE had failing buttons I went to Samsung first (a kiosk thing at a major shopping centre). They basically fobbed me off back to JB-Hi Fi which I thought was dumb, but they gave me a temp phone, sent the broken one back to Samsung and two weeks later I got my phone back with new buttons.

    I would have talked to Google directly first, isn't that what people do with Apple products as well?

  • ajr5k on 15/01/2025 - 15:11
    -1

    "Harvey Norman said they were not required to offer a replacement…"

    Illegal. A phone not working is unquestionably a major problem.

    https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/problem-with-a-product-or-…

    "When a business sells a product with a major problem, or a product that later develops a major problem, it must give the consumer the choice of a:
    refund, or
    replacement of the same type of product.

    A refund should be the full amount the consumer paid for the product. The business must not deduct an amount from a refund to take into account the use a consumer has had of the product."

  • Odin on 15/01/2025 - 15:36

    Go straight to google

    They send a replacement phone to you, after your receive it, you send your broken phone to them in the same box

    I recently did this.

    Totally painless

  • Drakesy on 15/01/2025 - 15:47

    I would've gone straight to the supplier (google)

    yes you're entitled to use Harvey Norman but it's not in their best interest to throw resources at something that doesn't make them money.

    It'll be faster to go straight to google.

  • avseqcfc on 15/01/2025 - 15:50

    Avoid Harvey Norman.
    Go chat with Google help support.
    They will send you a replacement device, keep a hold on your CC, once the courier picks up the faulty device, CC hold is released.
    Best customer ever.

    • jpbuy on 15/01/2025 - 16:00

      totally agree, avoid Harvey Norman like the plague. Like Drakesy said ' it's not in their best interest to throw resources at something that doesn't make them money.' No after sales service.

  • jpbuy on 15/01/2025 - 15:55

    Purchased a monitor screen from HN. My geek technician couldn't get it to work. HN wanted me to bring my desktop computer to the shop to test the screen. They wouldn't consider sending it to the manufacturer for testing or give me a refund. The screen was given to a charity shop in Marrickville who repairs electronic goods for the community. That's the end of HN for me and my extended family and friends.

  • apple2016 on 15/01/2025 - 17:15

    Is it legal under consumer law for them to have denied me a replacement at the store?

    Yes, HN can investigate why the issue happened and for this reason the can send it to manufacturer. based on findings they could deny warranty also.

  • lddv04 on 15/01/2025 - 18:29

    I had a Pixel 6A, purchasd from Telstra, that had an expanding battery. Telstra didn't want to know about it. Google, however, was great, sent a courier to pick it up, and got a new one in a week.

  • dealsucker on 15/01/2025 - 18:36

    Why dont you deal directly with google?

  • paulojr on 15/01/2025 - 18:41

    The description clearly shows a major fault, if it won't charge, won't start there is nothing other than physically smashing the device that a consumer can do to get a new phone into this state. This is should have been a no brainer if the OP description is right for the store manager. Here is the relevant ACCC section

    When a business sells a product with a major problem, or a product that later develops a major problem, it must give the consumer the choice of a:

    refund, or
replacement of the same type of product.

    So its your choice if you get a refund or same device. I'd go a refund myself.

    Anyway one of the reasons I don't buy much or really anything anymore from Harvey Norman is they don't educate themselves on the ACCC. I'd have to deal with them via Consumer Affairs and had to get Consumer Affairs to read the ACCC act to them, so its bloody painful and really unnecessary in the end. I'd suggest just try another store and sit there waiting and let other customers watch you complain until they get the message.

    Again as per previous post, manufacture has no special tricks here, if it was a minor fault then yes, the could send it to the manufacturer to try and repair.

    p.s. just looked up the price of that phone.. woooahh.. for that price I'd be pretty pissed to at the illegal response for hardly normal, its even IP68 rated.

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