Harvey Norman Refusing to Replace or Refund without Sending Back to Manufacturer. Is This Legal?

Fappo on 14/01/2025 - 21:04
Last edited 14/01/2025 - 21:10 by 1 other user

Hey all. I bought a Google Pixel 9 Pro XL phone recently and was pretty pissed off to find that it had bricked itself the other day (black screen of death, won't accept a charger or respond to anything). The phone is in basically brand new condition and has never been dropped or abused, and I went through all troubleshooting tips I could find and had no luck fixing it. The phone is totally bricked.

Harvey Norman said they were not required to offer a replacement, so now I'm stuck waiting God knows how long for them to send it to Google then have it repaired or replaced by them.

Is it legal under consumer law for them to have denied me a replacement at the store?

What about if I'd asked for a refund instead? I'm starting to think it may have been a better idea to have gotten a refund and chosen a different phone as I'm a bit worried the Pixel 9 Pro XL may be flakey and have inherent issues now.

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Comments

    • Sean8802 on 18/01/2025 - 11:23

      Exactly this of course, the manufacture will repair a device then contributing to e-waste and giving you a whole unit replacement. Even Apple 4 or so years ago started repairing devices in store instead of issuing a whole unit replacement. The only time you get a whole unit replacement is when it's within the 30 day period of purchase.

  • Bonesaw321 on 14/01/2025 - 22:06
    -2

    "You are entitled to a replacement or refund for a major failure and compensation for any other reasonably foreseeable loss or damage."

    https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic…

    • Bonesaw321 on 14/01/2025 - 22:07
      -5

      When a phone bricks itself, thats considered a "Major Failure" your entitled to a full refund

      • onceupon8 on 16/01/2025 - 07:53

        This comment shows how confusing the major & minor failure laws are and how so many people get it wrong.

  • JimmyF on 14/01/2025 - 22:26

    Is it legal under consumer law for them to have denied me a replacement at the store?

    Yes standard practice for phones, they are repaired.

  • Selka on 14/01/2025 - 22:51
    +1

    When a business sells a product with a major problem, or a product that later develops a major problem, it must give the consumer the choice of a:
    refund, or
    replacement of the same type of product.

    The business is allowed the send the phone back to the manufacturer for review however to check if the problem with the product was caused by the consumer misusing it.

    Most likely they will just try troubleshoot to see if its somthing minor or check the liquid damage indicators.

  • Gunnar on 15/01/2025 - 00:02
    +2

    In what is a first, HN have done nothing wrong. They need to follow what the manufacturer states and they are under no obligation to provide you with a replacement (unless it’s within the product’s DOA period).

    I’d also never buy electronics from HN because of how terrible their returns policy was.

    I worked in retail repairs and returns many years ago (not HN) and what you’ve been told is standard practice.

    Best bit of advice I can give you is don’t be rude to the staff serving you. If you act rude and entitled your repair will take a hell of a lot longer than it needs to be.

    I once delayed a repair by over two weeks only because the person was incredibly rude to my staff. I did it by taking my sweet time sending the package out and then calling the customer back when I got the replacement so essentially what would have been a1 week fix, took 3 weeks

    • Bruceflix on 15/01/2025 - 00:36

      Australian consumer law legislates if device is not repaired in a reasonable time customer is entitled to a refund.

      • 2025 on 16/01/2025 - 01:45
        +2

        That’s right, if a minor failure can’t be fixed quickly it becomes a major failure, I’ve leveraged this for full refunds after 2-3 years on a $700 Samsung monitor that was out of warranty, $900 Panasonic microwave out of warranty, Canon DSLR with intermittent focus issues, replacement phone after waiting longer than a week.

        The ACCC indicates that 1-2 weeks is reasonable for a mobile phone to have it assessed and repaired https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Electrical%20%26%20whit…

  • ihbh on 15/01/2025 - 07:32
    -1

    I'm starting to think it may have been a better idea to have gotten a refund and chosen a different phone

    … and keep or hand back the $100 voucher?

  • FoxJump on 15/01/2025 - 07:53
    +3

    my zenfone 8 bricked itself
    i took to jbhifi. they said they had to send to get assessed

    i said ok

    next day, i go and buy a new phone at jbhifi

    two weeks later jbhifi says yep theyll give me a gift card for the value of my bricked phone..i said. nope. i already bought a replacement phone from you so ill take cash - and they did a bank transfer to me

  • Potatohead82 on 15/01/2025 - 09:49

    I had a similar situation with a laptop I purchased from them years ago. It was slow and unsable after it first updated all drivers. I took the laptop to them, they "inspected " it and said : it is what it is, if I had any further issues I had to take it with the manufacturer. I ended up selling the laptop.

    I'll never buy electronics from HN again, as their after sales service is pretty bad.

  • JohnnyP on 15/01/2025 - 10:07

    JB are the same. Wife pixel 8 is green screening from time to time (before 1 year of ownership). Went before xmas and it was a 4-6 week turnaround time. Ended up just buying another phone.

    Might use the pixel 8 as trade in bait

  • jhaley3180 on 15/01/2025 - 10:39
    +10

    I've run Pixel phones since the first Pixel. I've had two warranty issues. Both occasions I've dealt directly with Google via live chat. They have asked a couple of questions then immediately dispatched replacement phones that day. I've received the replacement and had two weeks I think to return the warranty issue phone. Similar stories from friends with other Google products like wifi router.

    They even have an online tool for you to check whether your device is still within warranty and start the claim process.

    https://support.google.com/store/answer/6160400?hl=en

    • tetsuma on 15/01/2025 - 21:32
      +1

      To add to this, they replaced my pixel 6 I purchased in 2021 due to a swollen battery. Saved me the ebay cost of a new battery and a screen gasket. Can't speak highly enough of their live chat.

    • Loopholio on 15/01/2025 - 22:30

      I had my first Google Nexus die within a week. I bought it from Google and they sent me a new one with instructions and materials to return the old phone.

      If the returned phone works well, Google charge for the new phone ($400 at the time). I had no trouble as mine just became a black rectangle.

      The replacement Nexus was ridden hard for years. The things I did to that phone caused to reboot due to overheating. Eventually I had to recycle it because the new (fake) batteries were worse than my nearly dead battery.

  • miicah on 15/01/2025 - 13:48
    +1

    When my S20FE had failing buttons I went to Samsung first (a kiosk thing at a major shopping centre). They basically fobbed me off back to JB-Hi Fi which I thought was dumb, but they gave me a temp phone, sent the broken one back to Samsung and two weeks later I got my phone back with new buttons.

    I would have talked to Google directly first, isn't that what people do with Apple products as well?

  • Odin on 15/01/2025 - 15:36
    +2

    Go straight to google

    They send a replacement phone to you, after your receive it, you send your broken phone to them in the same box

    I recently did this.

    Totally painless

    • Hangryuman on 16/01/2025 - 17:34
      -2

      'Go straight to google - They send a replacement phone to you'

      oh - 'They' - may I ask who 'They' might be ?

      • miicah on 16/01/2025 - 18:05

        Google? You realise they sell phones, which is what OP is trying to get fixed.

      • Odin on 16/01/2025 - 18:24

        Google, the company.

        go to google the company, not google the search engine

    • Yeahyeahok on 21/01/2025 - 22:31

      Was the replacement phone refurbished? Thats what they are offering me and I'm not happy about it

      • Odin on 21/01/2025 - 23:07

        yeah, that's the deal

  • Drakesy on 15/01/2025 - 15:47

    I would've gone straight to the supplier (google)

    yes you're entitled to use Harvey Norman but it's not in their best interest to throw resources at something that doesn't make them money.

    It'll be faster to go straight to google.

  • avseqcfc on 15/01/2025 - 15:50
    +2

    Avoid Harvey Norman.
    Go chat with Google help support.
    They will send you a replacement device, keep a hold on your CC, once the courier picks up the faulty device, CC hold is released.
    Best customer ever.

    • jpbuy on 15/01/2025 - 16:00
      +2

      totally agree, avoid Harvey Norman like the plague. Like Drakesy said ' it's not in their best interest to throw resources at something that doesn't make them money.' No after sales service.

      • 2025 on 16/01/2025 - 02:18

        HN sell a variety of things, surely they are well aware that if they stooge a customer on a small margin phone, they’ll never see them again, and not earn a juicy margin on furniture and white goods when that customer starts looking in the future?

        • Drakesy on 16/01/2025 - 21:38

          Let's be honest, customer satisfaction and reputation is not high on HN's priority list.

          If they haven't gone bust yet based off their crap reputation, nothing can kill them.

    • ReaperX22 on 16/01/2025 - 14:18

      Isn't this only the case when it's bought from Google directly? Or does it apply to pixels bought from vendors too?

    • Hangryuman on 16/01/2025 - 17:38
      -5

      'Go chat with Google help support'

      uh - what is it with you guys saying 'go straight to Google' ???

      Google is a search engine, for almost all the online information in the world

      so to me, it's kinda like saying

      'You want a restaurant recommendation? Go straight to Sydney'

      • avseqcfc on 16/01/2025 - 20:49

        If you have a Google phone, it has a help section on the setting.
        May be look up before you drive to Sydney.

      • SirCH on 17/01/2025 - 14:38

        Google is the supplier of the phone.
        Sydney is not the supplier of the restaurant.

      • rumblytangara on 29/01/2025 - 09:48

        Google is a search engine, for almost all the online information in the world

        This is one of the dumbest posts I've read on OzB this year.

        Were you so proud of your ignorance that you had to bring this up at least three times in the same thread?

        Bravo.

  • jpbuy on 15/01/2025 - 15:55

    Purchased a monitor screen from HN. My geek technician couldn't get it to work. HN wanted me to bring my desktop computer to the shop to test the screen. They wouldn't consider sending it to the manufacturer for testing or give me a refund. The screen was given to a charity shop in Marrickville who repairs electronic goods for the community. That's the end of HN for me and my extended family and friends.

    • Daabido on 15/01/2025 - 21:15
      +5

      No need to get rid of family and friends.

      • paloverde88 on 16/01/2025 - 21:07

        just family keep the friends

  • apple2016 on 15/01/2025 - 17:15

    Is it legal under consumer law for them to have denied me a replacement at the store?

    Yes, HN can investigate why the issue happened and for this reason the can send it to manufacturer. based on findings they could deny warranty also.

  • lddv04 on 15/01/2025 - 18:29

    I had a Pixel 6A, purchasd from Telstra, that had an expanding battery. Telstra didn't want to know about it. Google, however, was great, sent a courier to pick it up, and got a new one in a week.

  • dealsucker on 15/01/2025 - 18:36

    Why dont you deal directly with google?

    • Daabido on 15/01/2025 - 21:15

      He took a gamble on an instant replacement. He will know better next time.

      • Protractor on 16/01/2025 - 12:13

        He took a gamble on HN.

      • paloverde88 on 16/01/2025 - 21:11

        most American conglomerate will let you replace free many no questions ask, Apple 7 days Microsoft 30 days, Google 30 days new replacement no question asked but you cannot damage the device. I once had a change of mind few days after I bought the apple watch and decided another looked better and took ti off my wrist and was exchanged on the spot while I wore it and had worn it for a few days no box no cables Apple took it off my wrist and gave me a brand new one why? their policy is 7 days no questions ask I think it is now 14 days.
        Samsung not included as the samsung outfit in Australia is run entirely by contractors and a company from India you never get to deal with Koreans for Samsung in Australia

  • paulojr on 15/01/2025 - 18:41
    -5

    The description clearly shows a major fault, if it won't charge, won't start there is nothing other than physically smashing the device that a consumer can do to get a new phone into this state. This is should have been a no brainer if the OP description is right for the store manager. Here is the relevant ACCC section

    When a business sells a product with a major problem, or a product that later develops a major problem, it must give the consumer the choice of a:

    refund, or
replacement of the same type of product.

    So its your choice if you get a refund or same device. I'd go a refund myself.

    Anyway one of the reasons I don't buy much or really anything anymore from Harvey Norman is they don't educate themselves on the ACCC. I'd have to deal with them via Consumer Affairs and had to get Consumer Affairs to read the ACCC act to them, so its bloody painful and really unnecessary in the end. I'd suggest just try another store and sit there waiting and let other customers watch you complain until they get the message.

    Again as per previous post, manufacture has no special tricks here, if it was a minor fault then yes, the could send it to the manufacturer to try and repair.

    p.s. just looked up the price of that phone.. woooahh.. for that price I'd be pretty pissed to at the illegal response for hardly normal, its even IP68 rated.

  • Metre on 16/01/2025 - 00:22
    -1

    File a complaint directly with Google first and get a case number of sorts. Go to a reputable phone repairs shop, it might just be a really simple hard restart fix.

    • Hangryuman on 16/01/2025 - 17:39

      'File a complaint directly with Google first'

      hmmm - this seems to be a meme …

      got a problem ? GO STRAIGHT TO GOOGLE !

      • Metre on 16/01/2025 - 23:27

        I’d give that a go than rely on Harvey to solve it, that would be too low of a standard of service to rely on. At least Google in my past experience has been reliable and professional to get in touch with, and their support isn’t even based locally. Ironic really.

  • 2025 on 16/01/2025 - 01:41

    It is perfectly legal for them to have it assessed, however watch the timeframe. Longer than 2 weeks to have it repaired is not OK.

    I purchased a Nokia 1020 11 years ago at HN. After a few days the image stabilisation when recording video turned funky, and they sent it away. A week after they sent it, I hadn’t heard anything. I went in and said to the manager that 1 week isn’t reasonable for a minor issue, so it must be a pretty major problem. He apologised, and fetched a brand new one from the shelf. I didn’t need to mention ACL, but I think that those two sentences might have tipped him off that I’d come prepared.

    • paloverde88 on 16/01/2025 - 21:00

      not within days - if it's within a few days it needs to be cheerfully replaced or refunded assessment is after you've had it for months.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/01/2025 - 02:07

    Standard practice… is it fair, not really… but it's within the rights of the business to assess the device or have it assessed by the manufacturer. While I'm sure this case is genuine, not all are. I've seen a lot of dodgy things in retail where a customer tries to pull a swifty…. one such event that stays with me is the company I worked for recalled a scooter. Under Australian law, recalls do not require a proof of purchase….. anyway, when this company would depose of recalls they would mark them and put them in the bin outside… Long story short…… people had caught on to this and were going through the bins at night time… now these scooters cost $350 dollars and let's just say a certain staff member somehow didn't pick up on the purple paint all over the scooter and refunded a person the money for a scooter they got out of a bin….

    • paloverde88 on 16/01/2025 - 21:03

      I know office works have gone from bad to worse in that you can only return items that was unopened and simply stared at the sealed box at home and decided it was not good for staring. This also applies to JB - JB is worse they made you initial a small piece of paper that you have picked the colour the model willingly and no one forced you then they produce that paper when you come back no matter the reason. You've initialed it that you were happy that was a contract that you cannot go back on.

      • yummypinacolada on 18/01/2025 - 16:55

        Its a standard practice once you open the seal, they no longer can sell it so they can't give you a replacement or refund straightaway. This is also to prevent people from abusing the system. Amazon is the only exception at being exceptionally good at giving a refund on faulty products(hopefully people don't abuse it so it will remain this way for Amazon).

        • paloverde88 on 19/01/2025 - 06:54

          Apple does not mind you break the seal as long as undamaged within 7 or 14 days as well as Microsoft and Dell basically all American flagship retail none of the mom and pop not concerned with customer service only profit retailers, mainly Australian stores minus Myer and David Jones

  • rumblytangara on 16/01/2025 - 10:47
    +2

    The phone is in basically brand new condition and has never been dropped or abused, and I went through all troubleshooting tips I could find and had no luck fixing it. The phone is totally bricked.

    And then

    Because they had price matched a Black Friday deal and added a $100 voucher on top.

    2 month old phone that has stopped working and you expect them to instantly hand over a new one? This is approaching American levels of consumer entitlement.

    • Protractor on 16/01/2025 - 12:15

      Except they all carry guns.Thus, new phones are handed over quicker and more often.

    • paloverde88 on 16/01/2025 - 21:05

      ok 2 months is too long of a duration plus you got freebies

  • Some Guy on 16/01/2025 - 12:11
    +2

    Here's what'll happen:

    HN will send OP's phone to repairer for assessment
    Assessment will conclude that [damage] is not covered by warranty
    Repairs will involve replacing all internal components and cost will be 1.5x more than a new phone.
    [Damage] will not be able to be disproven by OP. (My bet is that it will have water damage and OP will receive photos showing the internals of a water-damaged Google Pixel 9 Pro XL.)
    OP will buy a new phone from HN using the $100 voucher.

    • Darkscythe on 16/01/2025 - 13:52

      This is scarily accurate. It's why any time I send a product for assessment, I photograph/video everything until its boxed as you can't trust companies to do the right thing.

    • rumblytangara on 16/01/2025 - 18:57

      Only if OP bought a Samsung.

      • paloverde88 on 16/01/2025 - 20:59
        -1

        just as bad that store front on George Street in Sydney 100% run by contractors and even the employers are from India

  • ReaperX22 on 16/01/2025 - 15:00

    Generally speaking, it's 'Repair, replacement or refund' typically considered in that order.. In order to verify either of those, they're within rights to send it off.

    Typically, if it just black screened within the first week you got it and came back, you'd probably get a 'DOA' replacement (though, by consumer guidelines, there is no technical DOA period, and it's purely up to the vendor/retailer and their policies). But generally most retailers consider >1 month to enter standard warranty procedures, i.e. sending off to manufacturer on the assumption it's not their own product/in house brand etc, retailer dependent.

  • Dack Smith on 16/01/2025 - 15:47
    -1

    Wow Google phones are terrible - every review said the 9 Pro XL was the perfect phone lol

    • MrThing on 17/01/2025 - 07:34

      I have one and its bloody fantastic

  • jono1971 on 16/01/2025 - 16:53

    Google support will look after you! They were extremely fast and efficient with my Pixel 6 replacement.

    • yummypinacolada on 18/01/2025 - 16:41

      Did you get a refurbished or brand new phone when yours is faulty?

  • paloverde88 on 16/01/2025 - 20:56
    +1

    I would have contacted Google first and then they most likely will say to you just got it from HN bring it back to them at which point I will get something in writing from Google, so you have evidence the manufacturers told you to go back to the retailer then lodge a complaint with fair trading if HN still denies. Yes don't do business with HN I only buy things like wires or cheapo things that cannot go wrong like a fan or cable and very rarely even unless other shops don;t even have it. If only eveyone just stop buying from this kind of retailer with such poor customer service, we have one less mom and pop shop to deal with in the landscape.

    Manufacturers don't like to deal with things that fail within days of purchase they ask you to return to retailer.

  • softkun123 on 18/01/2025 - 10:02

    Have you tried directly contacting Google help via chat or call?

    I directly contacted Google customer service. My pixel 8a has battery issue and they are offered me replacement.

    It's only replacement by Google. For refund you in will have to contact store of purchase.

    I bought from Good Guy's never bothered to contact GG.

    I am not happy with 8a …it has heating issues during warm weather. Even inside the house it gets heated and hard to charge phone.

    I am thinking getting refund as well but not sure whether GG will acknowledge.

  • yummypinacolada on 18/01/2025 - 16:40
    +1

    A lot of people here suggesting to get a replacement from Google, from my experience quite while ago(Pixel 6 pro). Google only sent me refurbished product, then to make it worse all of the replacement I've got were faulty(all with different problems) as well. It seems like Google just sending other faulty phones sent by other customers. I ended up selling my 3rd replacement from Google before I even open it because I can't be bothered anymore if I got another brick.

    At the time I accepted getting a refurbished Pixel 6 pro because my phone died after 9 months, which I don't really mind getting if I can't get a new ones as long as everything still works perfectly. Now in OPs case, I would be pissed if I'm not getting a brand new sealed phones as the phone died in less than 2 months of usage.

  • Fappo on 22/01/2025 - 22:20
    +3

    Update: I got a brand new replacement phone back from HN today, so eight days. Not too bad, I guess, but as has been mentioned I'd probably have been better off going directly to Google.

    One silver lining is that my original phone had a very slight hairline scratch on the screen that annoyed me. I reckon I'll put a screen protector on this new one.

    Fingers crossed that the new phone will be reliable. I've been using Android phones since moving on from a Nokia dumbphone back in the day, and this has been the first time I've ever had an issue with one. Ironically it's also the first time I've ever splashed out the cash for a current flagship phone.

    I sent the ACCC an email about my original question, so I'll update if they ever get back to me with an official answer.

    • theduncan on 30/01/2025 - 07:46

      If you had top fight to get money from google, you would have been worse off.

      Google has a history of giving you the money, and cancelling any service they can tie to you. Email, youtube, in the US phone numbers.

  • Make it so on 24/01/2025 - 12:55
    +1

    Good it got sorted.

    But this is fairly standard. I went through a lot of hassle returning a Mesh Router system that just didn't work for me, being very unstable and very much not "set and forget". They promised a refund, but when I got there I was told the staff had told me the wrong thing. They honoured it, but it was a lot of hassle because normally they have to send it back. I told them you can't reasonably expect me to be without WiFi for weeks, but that's how it normally goes.
    It sucks, but in your case, what would the alternative be? What do you think it would do to the price of phones if anyone who walked in with a "broken" phone walked straight out with a new one?

    • Fappo on 29/01/2025 - 17:33

      Yeah, I agree that it's fair enough for shops to need to protect themselves from people abusing return/exchange policies.

      It was just very annoying knowing that there was no fault of mine with a fairly new and expensive product like this, and I was worried that the process could take much longer than it did.

      • Make it so on 29/01/2025 - 17:36

        Yeah, it's a crap situation to be in, for sure. Comes to show how much we depend on our phones nowadays. In the early phone days, you'd just swap your SIM to some other phone, and presto! Now, changing phone is a significant life event, and not having one leaves us naked and incapacitated.

        • Fappo on 29/01/2025 - 17:40

          Hah, yeah, that's right. Even all of your contacts would be saved onto your SIM.

          I kinda enjoy setting up a new shiny smartphone, but it was a bit annoying having to do it twice in two months.

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