It is probably not going to surprise many, but there isn't much good credit card churning deals nowadays with less products being offered with watered down deals and longer churn wait times.
For those experienced churners, how often do these churn bull/bear periods lasts, and when do you think would likely be the next recovery cycle where you get more banks entering the credit card space and heating up the market?
Sure there are still deals, but in general, churn wait times are getting longer, with lower freq flyer points, and increased card fee.
Also, some products are being simplified with less offerings. e.g. Citi removing payall,
It’s not cyclical. With everyone doing it (or aware of it) nowadays, the golden age is over.
Agreed, the fishing pond has gotten a bit crowded.
How long have you been churning?
It seems like we have had deals since at least 2016.
e.g.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/394059
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/230094
Also, ozbargain is a way tinier niche than you think.
Amongst my peers, most people don't even know about ozbargain, and don't give two hoots about churning cards/utilities, even as they simultaneously complain about the cost of living
Probably started churning 10 yrs ago.
Probably just your peers, most of my peers are aware of ozb.
Also, it’s not just ozb, there are plenty of sites, including news sites that over the years that have had articles about credit card churning.
Was bound to happen when the barrier to entry is so low, it's just a "if you know you know" sort of thing, so this is just natural.
My thoughts were when interest rates were lower banks were looking at ways to get customer in and get money. Now that interest rates are high they are making a killing and don't need the growth/income through the credit card sign up customer. Purely speculation though.
My assumption is that the rate doesn't really matter for banks, they just put their margin on top. I'd say they profit most when rates are frequently changing because they can leave rates unadjusted for a time and charge people a "lazy" tax. That mainly applies to mortgage rates though. Not sure about the flow-on to credit cards and promotions.
Banks have smartened up so it's a bit harder.
That being said, it's still pretty good. I sold $4000+ worth of points last year. Pretty nice side hustle income.
People like you is the reason we can't have nice things. If your aim is to make money, then you should be looking at more suitable products, not game the system, sell the points illegally and come and cry here that there aren't many points deals on the market.
I don't condone the trading of qantas points, but I just want to point out that selling of points itself not an illegal activity.
i.e. qantas points are owned by Qantas, and the most they can do would be to forfeit your points/bookings, and suspend/terminate your account.
. If your aim is to make money
What's your aim?
sell the points illegally
you need to brush up on the law. There's nothing illegal about selling points. It's against their T&Cs, but it's not illegal.
I sold $4000+ worth of points last year
minus the cost of the card fees, and time. What's it net out to?
I sold $2k worth two years ago and it was a steal.
Out of interest, how did you sell your points? I'm interested
Awesome - thanks!
Interchange fee restrictions are going to dampen the earning capacity through these cards = lower offers across the board.
got nearly a millie in qf points, I'm sweet
The increase in period of closing accounts to opening new with same bank for bonus rewards will definitely have an affect on me. I’ve got 2 current cards going with ANZ and NAB and want to get a couple more in before retirement next year but Bank SA and Westpac may still be within restricted time. Not interested in AMEX, fees too high. Will keep watch on new offerings.
If you are close to retirement, I would suggest getting the Bendigo credit card. It's almost a perfect card for retirees - no annual fee, no fx fees, free travel insurance, extended warranty.
I'm still far from retirement but just get this as a backup for both myself and partner. We'll use it only during holidays overseas.
Thanks, will look at this when the time comes. Used to have a BankWest no fee card before I got into points and churning but they removed the insurances, so good to know of another no fee card with insurance.
If you can be bothered to jump through all the hoops, have a look at the HSBC Premier World Mastercard credit card, depending on what you are looking for.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/836146
- 2 complimentary airport lounge passes
- Earn Qantas or Rewards points (Krisflyer, Cathay, etc).
- Complimentary travel insurance
- No annual fee
And now HSBC Reportedly Weighing Sale of Australian Retail Banking Unit
HSBC is reportedly considering a sale of its Australian consumer banking operation.
That’s one of the options before the British banking giant as it tries to pare down its business, Bloomberg News reported Monday (Jan. 20), citing sources with knowledge of the matter.
One of those sources said HSBC is likely to hold onto its commercial banking unit in Australia to continue serving corporate clients around the world. The retail banking business — made up of 40 branches and offices throughout Australia — could potentially attract other lenders around the country, the source added.
A spokesperson for HSBC declined to comment when reached by PYMNTS.
Under new CEO Georges Elhedery, HSBC has been conducting a massive overhaul of its businesses. For example, last month saw a report that the bank was considering scaling back its retail operations in countries including Mexico, Malaysia and Indonesia to focus more on its core markets, which are the United Kingdom and Hong Kong.
I use to churn at least 6 times a year and then the same in my wifes name. Back then we were getting approx $700 worth of profit every churn so over $8000 a year for me and my wife.
Then the ultimate Citibank Payall - biggest payout ever!
Those were the days!!
Just looking now, not sure if Qantas point deals are worth it with what you get, I was up to 1 mill points and they went quite quickly with some family flights.
There are still offers $400 to $450 profit per churn (Westpac, St George) but now have to wait 2 years not 1..
I'm looking at the ANZ Rewards Black card at the moment which works out to be about $575 profit….
awesome thank you, just checking that out - that is a good deal as I didn't see the extra $150 back initially.
Yea I've pretty much churned all the other good deals…. If you see anything else let me know :)
I've exhausted my options with the major providers, i.e.nab, anz, citi, wpc & amex. I'm looking for a card with bonus point and complimentary travel insurance for an overseas trip in April. The options I have in mind are:
1) Keep my existing nab Qantas Signature into the second year (30k QFF for $420 AF), or
2) Get the Bankwest Qantas Platinum (40k QFF for $160 AF). Pros: Automatic eligibility for travel insurance and 0% foreign currency conversion. Con: 0.6QFF per $ spend vs 1QFF on the nab card.
Any other cards I should consider? Pickings are really slim for churners.
If you can't find any good cards to churn, you can always fallback to this card with $0 annual fees + free insurance.
My "fallback" strategy if nothing available or while waiting cool down period:
But right now I still have the HSBC Premier to use until next year.
Thanks for that. Good to know options like the Bendigo still exists.
I prefer cards that earn airline points as I'm expecting major dental works this year on top of the travel plan. So might as well jump for one that requires large spends. Sadly though, the only new card options open to me are Bankwest Qantas and Virgin Flyer. I used to have an ANZ Rewards card; not sure if the Frequent Flyer line is open to me?
You didn’t mention CBA so you can try CBA smart award.
I've been applying for a Citibank or Virgin Money credit card (both backed by NAB) every couple of months as they don't have a waiting period. However I've been rejected by both in the last week. I apply for the lowest limit for each card and the system conditonally approves me and after I submit my payslips. I get an email within 1 business day saying I've been declined. I have a 100k annual income and 14k other credit cards. Normally I've been approved in the past in the same situation. I think they're declining people who have a history of churning with them to get around the no waiting period issue.
Will close my other credit cards and apply again and see what happens.
How frequent?
I applied for virgin money on Feb 2024 and Dec 2024, both successful
I don’t think there’s an actual pattern, I could be wrong though.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/tag/credit-card