[NSW] Install $12990 SunPower 10kwh Battery to Get $0 Free 10kw SunPower Panel @MES

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matrixes.com.au

• 

  UncleRico on 25/11/2024 - 17:40

  Free 10kW of panels, to go with your integrated 5kWh inverter?

  Great to see a rare NSW Solar deal, but are you sure that is correct?

  • 

    MarketingMES @ matrixes.com.au on 25/11/2024 - 17:44

    +1

    Hello Rico,

    Yes, from Sunpower Battery Datasheet:

    Input (DC - PV): Max PV Rated Input Power 10 kW
    Input (DC – BAT):Max Charging and Discharging Power 5.0 kW

    It allows you to charge the battery at 5kw while the rest of the PV power goes to your household usage.

    Thanks

    • 

      Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 18:28

      +2

      But it says the inverter is 5 kW, How could any more than 5 kW of power go towards your household usage? It seems you guys don’t even understand what you’re trying to sell and yet we’re meant to believe that you are a reputable company who would install it competently?

      • 

        MarketingMES @ matrixes.com.au on 25/11/2024 - 18:32

        Hello Ozbfan,

        I understand the 10kw looks 'overwhelming',

        But if it's a dc coupled battery then the 133% is out the door and oversize as much as you want within manufacture specs.

        Here are some useful links:
        https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/beat-solar-oversize-rule…
        https://saaustralia.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/SAA-Re…

        'Whether you’ve got an AC coupled or DC coupled battery,
        you can now oversize your system with solar to your inverter’s limits.'

        Thanks

        • 

          Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 18:36

          @MES: But you said “ It allows you to charge the battery at 5kw while the rest of the PV power goes to your household usage.”

          Therefore you are saying 5kw goes to battery and then pmax -5kw goes to the rest of household, how can it, maybe if we have DC appliances?

          • 

            ohgee on 25/11/2024 - 18:45

            @Ozbfan: I suspect this is possible because the DC from the PV charges the DC battery, no need for the inverter to convert to AC in the process. Meanwhile, the inverter converts the remaining DC from the PV to AC to be usable for the household.

            • 

              Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 18:47

              @ohgee: Maybe, but they say the batteries integrated inverter is 5kw and battery can be charged at 5kw, maybe coincidence those two numbers are the same?

          • 

            MarketingMES @ matrixes.com.au on 25/11/2024 - 18:50

            @Ozbfan: Hello Ozbfan,

            You're right to ask for clarification.

            When I said "5kW goes to the battery," I meant that in a DC-coupled system, excess solar power can be used to charge the battery,

            while the rest goes to the household. Even if you don’t have DC appliances, the inverter takes care of the power management, distributing what’s necessary to each load (household and battery).

            And the point here is that: it is always better to have a larger PV system at the same price (especially when you have a battery aside),
            why not go for 10kw when you can

            • 

              Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 18:51

              @MES: Ok so a lot of energy isn’t being captured. Why not go for 7-10kw inverter and make the most of your array and roof space?

            • 

              Ham Dragon on 25/11/2024 - 19:21

              @MES: Can you manage the system to prioritise battery charging, for example?

              • 

                MarketingMES @ matrixes.com.au on 25/11/2024 - 19:46

                +1

                @Ham Dragon: Hello Ham Dragon,

                Yes it is achiveable from SUNPOWER ONE App,

                Monitoring is via the SunPower One app.

                'One learns over time about a homeowner’s electricity consumption patterns and making suggestions for further energy bill savings.'

        • 

          tastech on 25/11/2024 - 22:31

          @MES: https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/6-6kw-solar-barrier-add-…

      • 

        Nom on 25/11/2024 - 19:17

        @Ozbfan - read the Solarquotes link from the OP.

        If you have a 5KW inverter, then 5KW of panels will only supply 5KW at the very peak of a summer day (probably an hour or two) and significantly less than 5KW for the remaining daylight hours.

        If you fit 10KW of panels to the same inverter, then you will still produce exactly the same 5KW at the peak of the day … but you'll also produce the full 5KW for a large chunk of the rest of the day too - infact, your panels can run at 50% output for another 6 hours and you'll be generating your full 5KW for those entire 6 hours.

        Why not go for 7-10kw inverter

        Because this battery doesn't come with a 7-10KW inverter - it comes with 5KW.
        If you had a 10KW inverter then you would want 15KW of panels, for the reasons above.

        Yes you can always buy a bigger system to make more power - but you can't do that for this price.

        • 

          Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 19:25

          @Nom: Very good, if cost saving is important why would someone buy 10kw of solar panels which they can’t use to their full capacity. I guess if you’re in the business of selling solar panels, who cares.

          • 

            Nom on 25/11/2024 - 19:27

            +1

            @Ozbfan:

            why would someone buy 10kw of solar panels which they can’t use to their full capacity.

            Because the full capacity is only for a very small period in the middle of the day.

            You can generate a better return by designing your system to run at full capacity for more of the day. Infact most of the day.

            Again, read the Solarquotes link that has already been posted further up the thread.

            • 

              Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 19:32

              @Nom: So going by that logic if you get a better return what about a 20 kW solar array with 5 kW battery?

              I read the link and it doesn’t explain any of that all it says is the 133% Was chosen as it was an ideal hardware trade-off and it became a regulation. It just says it doesn’t apply because it’s feeding your battery. This is just a snake oil salesman selling snake oil and numpties going along with it.

              • 

                Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 19:34

                @Ozbfan: If someone could post calculations that demonstrate a 100% oversizing is the optimal cost trade-off I’d be very interested.

              • 

                Nom on 25/11/2024 - 19:36

                @Ozbfan: @Ozbfan - here's a nice visual - https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/…

                Now imagine that graph with only 9KW of panels - it would be a significantly narrower spike, only reaching 9KW for a couple of hours in the middle.

                what about a 20 kW solar array with 5 kW battery?

                The numbers usually work best from around 133% up to 200% - oversizing by 400% isn't going to work out, and you can easily see why from the chart above. There's barely any white shoulder left to fill, in daylight hours.

                This is just a snake oil salesman selling snake oil and numpties going along with it.

                Maybe stop with the stupid comments, I'm trying very hard to explain why the oversizing is to your benefit. If you're not interested in learning, then stop wasting everyone's time.

                • 

                  Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 19:43

                  @Nom: I understand the logic behind what you are saying, A bigger array gets you more power over the day for the same sized inverter, I disagree that a 200% oversizing produces the greatest power per dollar.

                  “ By their judgement, 133% would make good use of the hardware and deliver the best efficiency in terms of money spent for carbon abated.”

                  I agree with that, but not with 200%. 200% seems like an arbitrary number That has been selected without evidencethat retailers have selected that suits whatever products they have on hand that they are trying to pedal.

                  • 

                    Nom on 25/11/2024 - 20:04

                    @Ozbfan:

                    I disagree that a 200% oversizing produces the greatest power per dollar.

                    I'm not saying that it does - it's absolutely an arbitrary number.
                    The calculation is quite different between Darwin and Hobart for example, and the installed cost per panel can vary quite a bit.

                    The perfect number usually lies somewhere around 150% - but these guys are giving you 200% in this package. I'm sure if you tell them you only want 8KW of panels, they'll be happy to keep the spare 2KW you don't want 👍

                    Note that if you're at the bottom end of NSW, your panels won't be making anywhere near 100% of their output for the entire winter - this is probably the period you'll benefit most from the 200% oversizing.

    • 

      UncleRico on 25/11/2024 - 18:49

      Fair enough. Haven’t seen that setup before.

      It would be curious to see what the ROI looks like for this setup, vs a more traditional set up with a bigger inverter such as an 8kW inverter with 10kW of panels, which would likely cost half as much…

      • 

        Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 18:50

        Would say it would be a negative return by far….happy to be proven wrong though.

      • 

        MarketingMES @ matrixes.com.au on 25/11/2024 - 19:01

        You're absolutely right—ROI is key,

        and there are many options out there that can offer a better return.

        However, SunPower is one of the premium brands with excellent efficiency and longevity, which can justify the initial investment over time.

        It all depends on what you're looking for in terms of performance, reliability, and long-term savings.

        • 

          Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 19:45

          @MES: Would all the returns be negative?

          • 

            MarketingMES @ matrixes.com.au on 25/11/2024 - 19:49

            @Ozbfan: No,

            As long as you're saving on energy costs, the ROI shouldn't be negative.

            Even with a higher upfront cost, the savings over time can make it worthwhile.

            • 

              Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 20:07

              @MES: If the system costs $12990 and has a 10 year warranty, The system would have to save you $1299 a year to break even.

              Lets assume the batteries would be recharged everyday and used to their full extent, (very unlikely, but lets assume that) current electricity price is 28c/kWh, lets assume 35c average over next 10 years. That saves around $1277 per year. Basically how much it costs.

              Now the opportunity cost of the capital let’s assume 7% mortgage offset or other return would cost you $909 a year. Lets even ignore compounding interest

              so you are effectively losing $909 per year to have a huge fire risk attached to the side of your house? so what’s the benefit?

              • 

                Nom on 25/11/2024 - 20:21

                @Ozbfan: You obviously wouldn't buy a $13K battery and solar system if it was only going to save you $1300 a year. Why would anyone ??

                Consider an average family home that uses 20KWh per day. At a cost of 0.35 per unit, that's $7 per day plus supply charge. Their annual cost is around $2500. They program their hot water and pool pump to run in peak sun daylight hours only, and they effectively use this system to reduce their annual bill close to $0 after the battery covers their overnight use.
                A six year payback period looks pretty good.

                This is what your numbers need to look like, for a solar/battery system to start making sense.

                • 

                  Ozbfan on 25/11/2024 - 20:31

                  @Nom: To reduce the bill to 0, they would need to be pumping in so much solar that the FIT outweigh the daily charge, I get 5c /kWh, thats a lot of wasted power, Not charging the battery to provide a “return on your investment”
                  In example you gave above I suspect the family would be much better going with a control load 2 option Which almost halves their hot water and pool pump costs with zero outlay.

                  That’s a problem with all this alternative technology. There was zero return on investment. Sure, if people enjoy doing it fair enough but lets not Pretend people are better off financially by doing it.

• 

  cool1 on 25/11/2024 - 19:15

  Any chance for QLD installation? Cairns 4868

  • 

    MarketingMES @ matrixes.com.au on 25/11/2024 - 19:18

    Hey Cool1,

    thanks for the interest,

    Unfortunately we are not covering your area currently