Yet Another Traffic Infringement Scenario - Should I Contest?

lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:21
Last edited 16/11/2024 - 21:10 by 1 other user

So, in my 7+ years of being a driver, today was the first time I was stopped by the cops and was eventually told that I would be getting an infringement notice, and that happened while I was on my bicycle!

The image that should pretty much sum up the scenario.

The picture should say it all - coming down an exit from the highway I saw a police vehicle stopping the main lane. I was in the dedicated bicycle lane. There was no debris or any signage on the bike lane, so I went along and immediately saw the accident scene on the grass island - motorbikes, cars, people - the whole lot.

I went for about 50 meters when a police vehicle came up to me with flashing lights. I stopped and was told that I should not have come this way, there was a car stopping the lane and this could be a crime scene. I tried to point out that the bike lane was free and it is a separate lane, and I slowed down etc., but to no avail. Apparently, I am getting a fine and demerit points.

What are your thoughts? Is there any point in disputing it?

Poll Options

  • 128
    At fault - pay the fine and move on
  • 3
    Not at fault - but there is no point in contesting
  • 54
    Not at fault - contest the infringement
Automotive

Comments

  • sumyungguy on 16/11/2024 - 20:26
    +5

    Will you share the actual infringement? Or perhaps not post until you receive it

  • Jaduqimon on 16/11/2024 - 20:33
    +8

    Demerit points for bicycle?

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 16/11/2024 - 20:52
      +16

      My understanding, and I stand to be corrected, is that any road offense, even if committed on a bike, that generates demerit points, carries over to the driver's license if held.

      • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:54

        I also believe that is the case, as evident by this incident.

      • apsilon on 17/11/2024 - 07:05
        +19

        Which is BS IMO given there's no requirement to have a licence to ride a bicycle. Fines are OK IMO but demerits are an additional punishment that are only being levied on part of the user base.

        OP definitely should've stopped, I don't think that's a bicycle lane but rather just the road shoulder.

        • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 09:23
          +1

          Fines are OK IMO but demerits are an additional punishment that are only being levied on part of the user base.

          Totally agree. In NSW itwas implemented due to motorists outcry about cyclists 'getting off scot free' with infringements. Same as upping the helmet fines to $400ish under a roads minister that really just hated cyclists.

          Need to encourage cyclists so we can reduce traffic on our roads, not punish people who cant afford to have a car and may not have a licence anyway.

          • dr on 17/11/2024 - 19:47
            +1

            @Euphemistic: Absolutely agree we should encourage cyclists, but to be fair to all traffic users they should have a rego plate too to avoid rogue behaviour by minority assholes in cycling community. Let say that plates are free or purchased for one off at cost price without annual renewals. I think that would keep both drivers and riders happy.

    • ihfree on 16/11/2024 - 20:54
      +1

      Yep, there was a recent article complaining about the situation for car drivers riding bikes.

      https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/man-slam…

      I also have a friend who lost his car licence over a bicycle related offence.

      • Jaduqimon on 16/11/2024 - 21:16
        +8

        daym…. better not jwalk next time either. might get demerit points for that too

        • ihfree on 16/11/2024 - 21:17
          +2

          Think you'd be fine with demerit points as long as it doesn't involve a vehicle

          • EightImmortals on 17/11/2024 - 08:07
            -4

            @ihfree: Not if they have actually become part of your social credit score and can be deducted for any 'offence' not related to the actual driving of a car. Your DRIVERS LICENSE is (or was) solely related to your behaviour (and approval to) drive a motor vehicle. If 'pushbike' isn't listed on there then it's just more revenue raising and government overreach.

            • ihfree on 17/11/2024 - 08:20
              +6

              @EightImmortals: A bike is considered a vehicle under current legislation. I don't believe there is a social credit system here.

              • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 09:26
                +4

                @ihfree: A bike is a vehicle, but not one requiring a licence or registration. Its ridiculous that you can apply demerit points when you are not required to have a licence.

                • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/11/2024 - 09:48
                  +3

                  @Euphemistic: My thoughts are that there is an expectation that a a person holding a driver's licence would have a more comprehensive knowledge of road rules, and thus be expected to comply with them more so than a younger unlicensed rider. Hence the demerit penalty on top of fine applicable to all cyclists.

                  • apsilon on 17/11/2024 - 09:51

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: Old people without a licence can ride a bicycle as well and in legal terms there's no requirement to know road rules at all to ride a bicyle. It's an unfair punishment that probably wouldn't stand up if challenged in court but no one is going to do that due to the cost.

                    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/11/2024 - 10:50

                      @apsilon:

                      legal terms there's no requirement to know road rules at all to ride a bicycle

                      Sorry, this is incorrect. If Old people without a licence can ride a bicycle, they are still legally required to comply with road laws. Failure to do so can result in fines and even charges leading to court appearances. The only difference is; no license -> no demerits.

                      • apsilon on 17/11/2024 - 13:17

                        @DashCam AKA Rolts: All ages are legally required to comply with the law, not know the law. Yes you need to know it in order to comply but that's not what's legislated.

                  • MS Paint on 17/11/2024 - 10:52

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts:

                    My thoughts are that there is an expectation that a a person holding a driver's licence would have a more comprehensive knowledge of road rules

                    This frustrates me no end when people (more than likely with a drivers license) seem to forget the road rules when they are pedestrians. In Victoria, as a driver, I have to give way to pedestrians crossing the road that I am turning into yet the pedestrians stand there like stunned mullets wondering who goes first. FFS

                    • ihfree on 17/11/2024 - 15:00

                      @MS Paint:

                      I have to give way to pedestrians crossing the road that I am turning into yet the pedestrians stand there like stunned mullets

                      Depending on the area of Sydney, most cars don't abide by that rule. If I just stepped off the curve in these areas I'd more than likely be dead.

                      • cameldownunder on 17/11/2024 - 21:32

                        @ihfree: I love to do that "Scare" step in front of them, just close enough to scare them and distant enough not to be hit. Then they stop and start to shout at me.

                        If they don't stop I am close enough to smack the car with my palm.

                    • cameldownunder on 17/11/2024 - 21:30

                      @MS Paint: Congratulations ( Seriously ). I see so many drivers who don't know this rule.

                  • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 10:55

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: I see your point, but i feel its discriminatory. Its an additional penalty applied if you happen to have a drivers licence.

                    It doesnt prevent you from riding a bike in the future, but may impact you in something unrelated. Plus losing your licence doesnt prevent you from riding a bike.

                    • md333 on 17/11/2024 - 16:07

                      @Euphemistic: In a way it is fair, as in the worst case when you lose your licence due to demerit points incurred on a bike, you are still no worse off than someone who avoided the demerits by not having a licence in the first place.

                • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:04

                  @Euphemistic: That's the part that isn't right. No one should be on the road without CTP insurance. All vehicles on the road should be registered, and only licenced drivers/ riders should be allowed operate them.

                  • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 21:31

                    @SlickMick: If you calulate the damages caused by bicycles its a tiny tiny proportion of the damages caused by motor vehicles. When you work out how much a bicycle rider should pay, its not worth the admin costs.

                    Should pedestrians have CTP to cross the road?

              • EightImmortals on 17/11/2024 - 09:34

                @ihfree: Is it listed on his license?

                • ihfree on 17/11/2024 - 09:51

                  @EightImmortals: Nope - that's just the legislation. Happened to old mate in the article on his e-bike and a friend of mine on a normal bike.

                  For car drivers, don't be an idiot if there are wheels involved.

                  Agree it's not fair. Though, on the other hand, as a driver you should, at least in theory, be more aware of road rules.

  • zonra on 16/11/2024 - 20:34
    +1

    I tried to point out that the bike lane was free and it is a separate lane.

    Were you on a bicycle?

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:39
      +2

      Yes, on a pushbike, as in a road bike, aka bicycle.

      • zonra on 16/11/2024 - 20:45
        +1

        Oh wow, I wasn’t aware you could get demerit points on a pushbike. The crime scene explanation is reasonable though but fine and points seem a bit harsh. What exactly was said on the fine though?

        • AustriaBargain on 16/11/2024 - 23:34
          +4

          But if you don't have a driver's license at all you can't lose points you don't have (or lose strikes left really).

          • MisplacedGaijin on 17/11/2024 - 07:31

            @AustriaBargain: About a year ago, in NSW I walked against a pedestrian "don't walk" signal, spotted by the coppers and got a $80-odd fine AND demerit points against my licence … so yes, you can get demerit points even when not driving, who knew !

  • bobbified on 16/11/2024 - 20:39
    +1

    What offence did the cops say the infringement will be for?

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:41
      +1

      Along the lines of not stopping when seeing a flashing police vehicle blocking the lane.

      • MS Paint on 16/11/2024 - 21:07
        +20

        They weren't stopping the lane, they were blocking the road. You chose to proceed. You need to face the consequences. FFS. There is nothing novel about this scenario.

        • quick-dry on 17/11/2024 - 14:07
          +1

          I'd say it depends how the car was positioned/angled as to whether they were "blocking the lane" or "blocking the road" - they often do one or the other, how can you tell?

          • OZKap on 17/11/2024 - 19:10

            @quick-dry: What's the safer scenario for police and those injured:

            • Fully block the presumably more busy car lane and leave the shoulder (not a bike lane from what is shown in picture - no markings indicating it as such)

            • Half block both the shoulder and the busy car lane, hoping that cars won't try to go around.

            • Fully block both road and shoulder by either going off the road to turn perpendicular to the road, or crossing into oncoming traffic

            If I came across a police car with lights on stopped in the middle of the road I would at least slow down to check what was going on, for my own safety.

            Especially since OP said about the visibility:"It was clear as crystal, the picture from Google maps is foggy as :D"

            • quick-dry on 17/11/2024 - 19:44
              +2

              @OZKap: I agree about the safety of the situation, but I think there is a middle grou d handling of "oi, you on the bike - the road is closed you can't come through here, get out", without handing out tickets and potentially demerit points.

              • OZKap on 17/11/2024 - 19:45

                @quick-dry: Why should they find the middle ground for a road user who went 50m past a police car blocking the road with flashing lights?

  • oscargamer on 16/11/2024 - 20:42
    +4

    What was written on the infringement?

    I think you haven't got it yet, so anything we say is useless. I highly doubt you will get a ticket.

    You were dumb going past the police car. It wasn't blocking that lane only, it was trying to stop all traffic, because of the accident. But we all know cyclists obey their own sets of rules that only apply to them.

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:51
      +2

      I agree - it was not the smartest move. Your last line is a stereotype though.

    • brotherfranciz on 16/11/2024 - 21:10
      -7

      But we all know cyclists obey their own sets of rules that only apply to them.

      So you're happy to ignore that the crash involved car drivers not obeying road rules?

  • BillyStm on 16/11/2024 - 20:42
    +14

    Is that actually a bike lane, it just looks like the side of the road as opposed to a dedicated bike lane as such. Bike lanes normally have lines painted on both sides of them (or gutter edge on one side) and are clearly marked as such. That being said it could of just been an officer putting on a hard word with nothing to come from it.

    • GordonD on 16/11/2024 - 21:24

      You have pointed out the flaw in the OP's argument that he was in a bicycle lane, and the police had not blocked it. There is no bicycle lane there. If there was there would be a white line on the left of it, and bicycle symbols painted on the roadway. What is to the left of the white line that's there is just the shoulder of the road.

      Like you, I wouldn't be surprised if the police officer was just trying to scare the OP, and doesn't bother going through the process of issuing a ticket.

  • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:48

    As said in the post, I have NOT received the infringement notice, but details were taken. I wanted to understand what the forum thinks, given this is quite a novel scenario!

  • c64 on 16/11/2024 - 20:52
    +1

    i think you could argue that it was so foggy that you could not see anything

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:53

      LOL, I wish! It was clear as crystal, the picture from Google maps is foggy as :D

  • TEER3X on 16/11/2024 - 20:54
    +5

    I tried to point out that the bike lane was free and it is a separate lane

    I don't think people, such as the police, like it when the other person is argumentative.

    Could you have avoided the fine by apologizing and pleading ignorance?

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:18

      I would have thought the charges would be something like ignoring the instructions of a police officer and interfering with a crime scene, I think OP would be lucky to lose demerit points.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 16/11/2024 - 20:55
    +5

    So do you want the police to waste two vehicles blocking every cm of the road or expect people with an ounce of sense to realise it’s blocked and don’t go fvcken through. Phux sake.

    • Bren20 on 17/11/2024 - 21:20

      Maybe a traffic cone?

  • kerfuffle on 16/11/2024 - 21:04
    +10

    Sounds like the person on the motorbike who decided to ignore the police cars and go through a crime scene on the Sydney Harbour Bridge recently: https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_s…

    • JIMB0 on 16/11/2024 - 21:58
      +4

      Haha, that guy isn't very bright drawing attention to himself with no rego/insurance, suspended license, and a dodgy number plate. Got done for speeding as well.

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:20

      Seems to be the OP could be going down for about 1/2 of the same

  • Euphemistic on 16/11/2024 - 21:15
    +8

    Doesnt look like a bike lane, just a shoulder.

    Did the police car have any message on the back such as 'road closed'?

  • brotherfranciz on 16/11/2024 - 21:34
    +5

    I agree with all the comments here: that's just a shoulder and not a bicycle lane.

    That's not to say you should have been cycling in the road lane instead of the shoulder, but common sense should have prevailed. It was a bad idea to think you could cycle through an accident scene with police closing the road!

    Also, what were you thinking with all the debris and glass on the road?! Think of the pain and suffering of needing to fix a puncture! The police officer probably did you a favour stopping you!

  • JIMB0 on 16/11/2024 - 21:49
    -2

    Lawyer up and contest it. Don't wait for the fine to come in the mail, contact a lawyer first thing next week and start the ball rolling. This is winnable.

  • timps on 16/11/2024 - 22:02
    +9

    How the hell do you have a license?

    There's no bike lane, and even if there was, you rode past a cop car. It wasn't blocking "just one lane", it was clearly blocking the road. All of it. If you were in a car and it was two lanes, you wouldn't think it was ok to drive through there.

    There's nothing novel about it.

  • Lets Go Brandon on 16/11/2024 - 22:04

    Unlikely to receive a ticket but it's an easy contest anyway.

  • snappy1234 on 16/11/2024 - 22:58

    Time to jail errant Cyclists

  • pegaxs on 16/11/2024 - 23:09
    +1

    Just so you know… and I am not sure if this was in NSW or not, but the rule is similar in other states…

    Road Rule 304: Direction by a police officer or authorised person

    It is a $400+ fine and 3 points. I don’t think that points should apply to bicycle riders though, that’s a bit tough.

    If you are from ACT as your profile suggests, it appears the fine is $167 and 3 points.

    • BobLim on 17/11/2024 - 22:08

      Is a car with flashing lights an "authorised person" though? OP doesn't mention any officer actually giving any direction - sounds to me like they may have been a bit lax on the "roadblock process" in this case.

  • Davo1111 on 17/11/2024 - 01:55
    +3

    you knew what you were doing.

    "why is this row of cars held up by police? I'll just blast through"

  • TrumpisKing on 17/11/2024 - 07:38
    -6

    What a load of 💩 . Just ANOTHER bs excuse to squeeze money out of innocent civilians. No wonder people don't have any respect for them or the government anymore.

    • EightImmortals on 17/11/2024 - 08:11
      -1

      Indeed, it's a real global epidemic at the moment. People are sick of it. Will they do something ultra-radical like not voting for the uni-party next election? Probably not. Govern me harder daddy!

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:24

      Some of us do. In fact I'm pretty sure you anarchists are a minority, just a loud one, as most are.

  • joshash on 17/11/2024 - 07:48

    Mate I doubt he's going to go back through his notebook and write you up for that.
    Always call them "sir".
    They hate that ;)

    • GordonD on 17/11/2024 - 08:05
      +2

      Always call them "sir". They hate that ;)

      Especially if they are female police officer.

  • stickingly on 17/11/2024 - 08:28
    +3

    As a cyclist, you are never going to get much sympathy from an Internet forum

    But in this case I think you are in the wrong.
    If it was me I would have stopped and made eye contact with one of the police people to get some acknowledgement as to whether it was OK to proceed or not

  • SYLTB on 17/11/2024 - 10:56

    “It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity! Or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop!… ever… until you pay for it!”

  • IcemanF14 on 17/11/2024 - 11:17
    +1

    I'm sorry, but even on a bicycle, you're still using a public road, so points and fines for ignoring police direction should be no different to me riding my motorcycle on the road and using that shoulder to get around a blocked lane.

  • Drakesy on 17/11/2024 - 12:28

    IMHO
    This shouldn't be a fineable offense, a warning is justified. I do sympathise with the OP if they get demerits/fined. If you actively went out of your way to avoid the police's orders then you're in trouble.

    If the police car is blocking the road, consider the whole road blocked.

  • Deals For Days on 17/11/2024 - 13:48
    +2

    Yeah main issue is, it doesn't look like a bike line just the shoulder of the road.

  • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 17/11/2024 - 14:03

    Another nail in the coffin. Cyclists are a pest to other road users. Prove me wrong.

  • Dack Smith on 17/11/2024 - 14:17
    -1

    I’d say contest it, at least 50% of the time the cops are wrong and the court will vindicate you.

    Unless you want to donate more towards government coffers and the pollies slush funds

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:27

      at least 50% you say. hmmm do I think the OP would consider you credible??

  • iand on 17/11/2024 - 14:38
    +1

    Is it actually a dedicated bike lane or just the road shoulder. It looks like just the road shoulder to me as your pic doesn't show anything designating it as a bike lane

  • djsweet on 17/11/2024 - 15:53

    If it’s a dedicated bike lane and it was not obvious the police were trying to block it, then you have grounds. There are places where the bike lane has separate traffic signals from the car lane. This implies stopping one does not necessarily carry to the other by default. It would come down to things like, was it a lane closure or a road closure? Could a reasonable person infer that it was a complete road closure etc.

    • gromit on 17/11/2024 - 15:59
      +3

      A reasonable person if in doubt stops and asks, they don't just proceed through.

  • SuperGreen on 17/11/2024 - 15:58

    Cyclists don’t have to abide by road rules as far as I know, you should fight it.

    • 2esc on 17/11/2024 - 18:22
      +1

      Yes red lights they can just ride through without a care in the world as the road rules dont apply to them.

      • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:29

        I'm starting to understand why some say it's pointless asking for advice here

  • Cave Fire on 17/11/2024 - 16:45
    -1

    It's one of those obscure laws imo. Ideally, you would think they would put down a traffic cone or physically block the lane. A photo of where the car was would help. So if it's over the border of the lane for example. Or parked far away.

  • Spootage on 17/11/2024 - 17:23
    +1

    Good. I hope you get the fine. I’m sick of seeing bike riders think they are above the law.

  • CommuterPolluter on 17/11/2024 - 17:46

    At risk of piling on this does seem a bit entitled. Cops seem a bit precious to issue a fine rather than just chew you out over it.

    • 2esc on 17/11/2024 - 18:26
      +3

      Maybe sick of warning people as the general public constantly ignoring basic rules. Personally the Police are too afraid of public perception these days and people know that.

      • CommuterPolluter on 17/11/2024 - 19:40

        Didn’t seem afraid of public perception shooting their little rubber bullets at the lockdown protestors.

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:31

      Law enforcement officers should stick to enforcing laws… oh wait

  • Kiro on 17/11/2024 - 20:21

    Common sense should have kicked in.

  • sumyungguy on 17/11/2024 - 21:13

    We've all forgotten to ask… dashcam footage?

  • BobLim on 17/11/2024 - 22:05

    Unless the car was accompanied by some sort of signage or an officer actually giving directions not to enter, it sounds a bit ambiguous to me.

    Maybe they just parked it there to chase someone off the road through a field? I'm not sure a parked car with some lights can actually issue directions to a person on behalf of a sworn officer?

  • DontNeedThis on 17/11/2024 - 22:53
    +1

    I was so disappointed when I opened the image and wasn't an MS paint drawing.

  • Randxyz123 on 18/11/2024 - 04:34

    Hmm tricky one… In once sense the police car blocking the car lane kinda stands to reason that the hard shoulder/bike lane is also blocked off. I would have probably flagged down an officer and asked if I could continue or should I try to find a different route.

    On the other hand the police could have coned off the lane so it was clear both were blocked.

    I remember a AMA on Reddit from a police officer. Here is the thing, DO NOT argue or reason with them. In this case I would have apologised and said I didn’t realise.

    From google maps as well, it looks like it was a continuation of a bike lane on a pretty busy road. Probably not the easiest place to find a different route.

    I would write in to contest it. Explain you didn’t know that the bike lane was also closed. Worst case you get a extra few weeks to pay it.

    Unless you were overly argumentative it is a bit tough to be getting a ticket for this.

  • greater mimic on 18/11/2024 - 05:39

    You should have just apologised and turned around, it sounds like trying to argue it is what caused the infringement

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