Yet Another Traffic Infringement Scenario - Should I Contest?

lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:21
Last edited 19/11/2024 - 22:12 by 1 other user

So, in my 7+ years of being a driver, today was the first time I was stopped by the cops and was eventually told that I would be getting a fine, and that happened while I was on my bicycle!

The image that should pretty much sum up the scenario.

The picture should say it all - coming down an exit from the highway I saw a police vehicle stopping the main lane. I was in the dedicated bicycle lane. There was no debris or any signage on the bike lane, so I went along and immediately saw the accident scene on the grass island - motorbikes, cars, people - the whole lot.

I went for about 50 meters when a police vehicle came up to me with flashing lights. I stopped and was told that I should not have come this way, there was a car stopping the lane and this could be a crime scene. I tried to point out that the bike lane was free and it is a separate lane, and I slowed down etc., but to no avail. Apparently, I am getting a fine and demerit points.

What are your thoughts? Is there any point in disputing it?

Poll Options

  • 220
    At fault - pay the fine and move on
  • 5
    Not at fault - but there is no point in contesting
  • 128
    Not at fault - contest the infringement
Automotive

Comments

  • sumyungguy on 16/11/2024 - 20:26
    +10

    Will you share the actual infringement? Or perhaps not post until you receive it

  • Jaduqimon on 16/11/2024 - 20:33
    +14

    Demerit points for bicycle?

    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 16/11/2024 - 20:52
      +26

      My understanding, and I stand to be corrected, is that any road offense, even if committed on a bike, that generates demerit points, carries over to the driver's license if held.

      • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:54
        +1

        I also believe that is the case, as evident by this incident.

      • apsilon on 17/11/2024 - 07:05
        +40

        Which is BS IMO given there's no requirement to have a licence to ride a bicycle. Fines are OK IMO but demerits are an additional punishment that are only being levied on part of the user base.

        OP definitely should've stopped, I don't think that's a bicycle lane but rather just the road shoulder.

        • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 09:23
          +4

          Fines are OK IMO but demerits are an additional punishment that are only being levied on part of the user base.

          Totally agree. In NSW itwas implemented due to motorists outcry about cyclists 'getting off scot free' with infringements. Same as upping the helmet fines to $400ish under a roads minister that really just hated cyclists.

          Need to encourage cyclists so we can reduce traffic on our roads, not punish people who cant afford to have a car and may not have a licence anyway.

          • dr on 17/11/2024 - 19:47
            +1

            @Euphemistic: Absolutely agree we should encourage cyclists, but to be fair to all traffic users they should have a rego plate too to avoid rogue behaviour by minority assholes in cycling community. Let say that plates are free or purchased for one off at cost price without annual renewals. I think that would keep both drivers and riders happy.

            • Widget on 18/11/2024 - 09:07
              +1

              @dr: Disagree. Punishing the many for the actions of a few is silly.

            • CaptainJack on 18/11/2024 - 13:47
              +2

              @dr: Somewhat playing devil's advocate, the reason for licensing and registration plates for motor vehicles is because they can very easily kill other people when used improperly, and also - I guess - the costs of implementing the whole system is expensive and they need to make sure users are paying their part.

              Neither really applies to cyclists, and surely the costs of administering the system would outweigh the benefits.

            • afah0447 on 19/11/2024 - 07:43
              +1

              @dr: So 10yo kid needs to get a rego plate for his bmx? Do skateboards need rego plates? How about rollerblades and rollerskates…?

            • raspudala on 19/11/2024 - 15:30
              +3

              @dr: Pedestrians should have license plates attached to their butts as well, maybe should wear helmets as well while we on this topic, you never know when you fall on your head. /s

    • ihfree on 16/11/2024 - 20:54
      +1

      Yep, there was a recent article complaining about the situation for car drivers riding bikes.

      https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/man-slam…

      I also have a friend who lost his car licence over a bicycle related offence.

      • Jaduqimon on 16/11/2024 - 21:16
        +15

        daym…. better not jwalk next time either. might get demerit points for that too

        • ihfree on 16/11/2024 - 21:17
          +2

          Think you'd be fine with demerit points as long as it doesn't involve a vehicle

          • EightImmortals on 17/11/2024 - 08:07
            -7

            @ihfree: Not if they have actually become part of your social credit score and can be deducted for any 'offence' not related to the actual driving of a car. Your DRIVERS LICENSE is (or was) solely related to your behaviour (and approval to) drive a motor vehicle. If 'pushbike' isn't listed on there then it's just more revenue raising and government overreach.

            • ihfree on 17/11/2024 - 08:20
              +10

              @EightImmortals: A bike is considered a vehicle under current legislation. I don't believe there is a social credit system here.

              • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 09:26
                +6

                @ihfree: A bike is a vehicle, but not one requiring a licence or registration. Its ridiculous that you can apply demerit points when you are not required to have a licence.

                • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/11/2024 - 09:48
                  +3

                  @Euphemistic: My thoughts are that there is an expectation that a a person holding a driver's licence would have a more comprehensive knowledge of road rules, and thus be expected to comply with them more so than a younger unlicensed rider. Hence the demerit penalty on top of fine applicable to all cyclists.

                  • apsilon on 17/11/2024 - 09:51
                    +1

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: Old people without a licence can ride a bicycle as well and in legal terms there's no requirement to know road rules at all to ride a bicyle. It's an unfair punishment that probably wouldn't stand up if challenged in court but no one is going to do that due to the cost.

                    • DashCam AKA Rolts on 17/11/2024 - 10:50
                      +1

                      @apsilon:

                      legal terms there's no requirement to know road rules at all to ride a bicycle

                      Sorry, this is incorrect. If Old people without a licence can ride a bicycle, they are still legally required to comply with road laws. Failure to do so can result in fines and even charges leading to court appearances. The only difference is; no license -> no demerits.

                      • apsilon on 17/11/2024 - 13:17
                        +2

                        @DashCam AKA Rolts: All ages are legally required to comply with the law, not know the law. Yes you need to know it in order to comply but that's not what's legislated.

                  • MS Paint on 17/11/2024 - 10:52
                    +2

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts:

                    My thoughts are that there is an expectation that a a person holding a driver's licence would have a more comprehensive knowledge of road rules

                    This frustrates me no end when people (more than likely with a drivers license) seem to forget the road rules when they are pedestrians. In Victoria, as a driver, I have to give way to pedestrians crossing the road that I am turning into yet the pedestrians stand there like stunned mullets wondering who goes first. FFS

                    • ihfree on 17/11/2024 - 15:00
                      +4

                      @MS Paint:

                      I have to give way to pedestrians crossing the road that I am turning into yet the pedestrians stand there like stunned mullets

                      Depending on the area of Sydney, most cars don't abide by that rule. If I just stepped off the curve in these areas I'd more than likely be dead.

                      • cameldownunder on 17/11/2024 - 21:32

                        @ihfree: I love to do that "Scare" step in front of them, just close enough to scare them and distant enough not to be hit. Then they stop and start to shout at me.

                        If they don't stop I am close enough to smack the car with my palm.

                    • cameldownunder on 17/11/2024 - 21:30
                      +1

                      @MS Paint: Congratulations ( Seriously ). I see so many drivers who don't know this rule.

                  • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 10:55

                    @DashCam AKA Rolts: I see your point, but i feel its discriminatory. Its an additional penalty applied if you happen to have a drivers licence.

                    It doesnt prevent you from riding a bike in the future, but may impact you in something unrelated. Plus losing your licence doesnt prevent you from riding a bike.

                    • md333 on 17/11/2024 - 16:07

                      @Euphemistic: In a way it is fair, as in the worst case when you lose your licence due to demerit points incurred on a bike, you are still no worse off than someone who avoided the demerits by not having a licence in the first place.

                • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:04
                  -1

                  @Euphemistic: That's the part that isn't right. No one should be on the road without CTP insurance. All vehicles on the road should be registered, and only licenced drivers/ riders should be allowed operate them.

                  • Euphemistic on 17/11/2024 - 21:31

                    @SlickMick: If you calulate the damages caused by bicycles its a tiny tiny proportion of the damages caused by motor vehicles. When you work out how much a bicycle rider should pay, its not worth the admin costs.

                    Should pedestrians have CTP to cross the road?

              • EightImmortals on 17/11/2024 - 09:34

                @ihfree: Is it listed on his license?

                • ihfree on 17/11/2024 - 09:51

                  @EightImmortals: Nope - that's just the legislation. Happened to old mate in the article on his e-bike and a friend of mine on a normal bike.

                  For car drivers, don't be an idiot if there are wheels involved.

                  Agree it's not fair. Though, on the other hand, as a driver you should, at least in theory, be more aware of road rules.

    • I like freestuff on 18/11/2024 - 17:11

      Not in Qld at least.

    • Ozykins on 20/11/2024 - 01:06

      In the UK if a non-licence holder is awarded points the authorities establish a "ghost" licence, onto which points are put. If the person later gets a real licence, the points are transferred from the outset.

    • knobbs on 21/11/2024 - 10:09
      +1

      Yeah pretty stupid idea, riding your bike along, get fined, lose demerit points, lose licensee, then keep riding your bike. What's going to happen next time they want to take demerits while your riding your bike and already lost your licensee?

  • zonra on 16/11/2024 - 20:34
    +1

    I tried to point out that the bike lane was free and it is a separate lane.

    Were you on a bicycle?

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:39
      +4

      Yes, on a pushbike, as in a road bike, aka bicycle.

      • zonra on 16/11/2024 - 20:45

        Oh wow, I wasn’t aware you could get demerit points on a pushbike. The crime scene explanation is reasonable though but fine and points seem a bit harsh. What exactly was said on the fine though?

        • AustriaBargain on 16/11/2024 - 23:34
          +4

          But if you don't have a driver's license at all you can't lose points you don't have (or lose strikes left really).

          • MisplacedGaijin on 17/11/2024 - 07:31
            -2

            @AustriaBargain: About a year ago, in NSW I walked against a pedestrian "don't walk" signal, spotted by the coppers and got a $80-odd fine AND demerit points against my licence … so yes, you can get demerit points even when not driving, who knew !

          • Rako on 18/11/2024 - 13:41

            @AustriaBargain: Lose points???

  • bobbified on 16/11/2024 - 20:39
    +1

    What offence did the cops say the infringement will be for?

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:41
      +1

      Along the lines of not stopping when seeing a flashing police vehicle blocking the lane.

      • MS Paint on 16/11/2024 - 21:07
        +31

        They weren't stopping the lane, they were blocking the road. You chose to proceed. You need to face the consequences. FFS. There is nothing novel about this scenario.

        • quick-dry on 17/11/2024 - 14:07
          +4

          I'd say it depends how the car was positioned/angled as to whether they were "blocking the lane" or "blocking the road" - they often do one or the other, how can you tell?

          • OZKap on 17/11/2024 - 19:10

            @quick-dry: What's the safer scenario for police and those injured:

            • Fully block the presumably more busy car lane and leave the shoulder (not a bike lane from what is shown in picture - no markings indicating it as such)

            • Half block both the shoulder and the busy car lane, hoping that cars won't try to go around.

            • Fully block both road and shoulder by either going off the road to turn perpendicular to the road, or crossing into oncoming traffic

            If I came across a police car with lights on stopped in the middle of the road I would at least slow down to check what was going on, for my own safety.

            Especially since OP said about the visibility:"It was clear as crystal, the picture from Google maps is foggy as :D"

            • quick-dry on 17/11/2024 - 19:44
              +15

              @OZKap: I agree about the safety of the situation, but I think there is a middle grou d handling of "oi, you on the bike - the road is closed you can't come through here, get out", without handing out tickets and potentially demerit points.

              • OZKap on 17/11/2024 - 19:45
                -2

                @quick-dry: Why should they find the middle ground for a road user who went 50m past a police car blocking the road with flashing lights?

                • Assburg on 18/11/2024 - 09:18
                  +10

                  @OZKap: Because there a million reasons to block an entire lane for an accident or other issue, and not the entire road.

                  Blocking the entire road is a last point of call, and even then… Is it necessary to block all users, or just cars (given the risk that comes with up to 4 tonnes of steel flying past on wheels at 60kph vs a pedestrian or cyclist, half the speed or less under 100kg).

                  The police did a crap job, they didn't block the road properly, they just left a car there with some flashing lights and assumed the general public can read minds. If access really was an issue that's worth fining people over, they were pretty negligent in "securing the crime scene", so stuff them man.

                  It was an honest mistake reasonably made. It's worth contesting.

          • abb on 19/11/2024 - 14:18
            +1

            @quick-dry: At least in NSW they have a message sign on the roof. It can indicate things like "ROAD CLOSED" or "MERGE >>>"

            • quick-dry on 19/11/2024 - 15:31

              @abb: I thought I'd seen those but wasn't sure, I agree, that that would remove all wiggle room and be incredibly clear - OP didn't include that info though, so I don't want to say that they would have had that deployed.

  • oscargamer on 16/11/2024 - 20:42

    What was written on the infringement?

    I think you haven't got it yet, so anything we say is useless. I highly doubt you will get a ticket.

    You were dumb going past the police car. It wasn't blocking that lane only, it was trying to stop all traffic, because of the accident. But we all know cyclists obey their own sets of rules that only apply to them.

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:51
      +3

      I agree - it was not the smartest move. Your last line is a stereotype though.

      • rumblytangara on 18/11/2024 - 09:29
        -1

        Your last line is a stereotype though.

        It's self-entitled threads like this that keep the stereotype alive and kicking.

    • brotherfranciz on 16/11/2024 - 21:10
      -5

      But we all know cyclists obey their own sets of rules that only apply to them.

      So you're happy to ignore that the crash involved car drivers not obeying road rules?

      • Assburg on 18/11/2024 - 09:20
        +1

        Seems like you've been downvoted by losers, my condolences.

    • Assburg on 18/11/2024 - 09:24
      +1

      Do you think it's unreasonable that road trains, much bigger and heavier than average cars, have to comply with an extra set of rules?

      But, addressing your generalisation more directly, do you think cyclists have caused more deaths on the road than people operating cars?

  • BillyStm on 16/11/2024 - 20:42
    +18

    Is that actually a bike lane, it just looks like the side of the road as opposed to a dedicated bike lane as such. Bike lanes normally have lines painted on both sides of them (or gutter edge on one side) and are clearly marked as such. That being said it could of just been an officer putting on a hard word with nothing to come from it.

    • GordonD on 16/11/2024 - 21:24
      +1

      You have pointed out the flaw in the OP's argument that he was in a bicycle lane, and the police had not blocked it. There is no bicycle lane there. If there was there would be a white line on the left of it, and bicycle symbols painted on the roadway. What is to the left of the white line that's there is just the shoulder of the road.

      Like you, I wouldn't be surprised if the police officer was just trying to scare the OP, and doesn't bother going through the process of issuing a ticket.

      • sumyungguy on 17/11/2024 - 13:01
        +10

        It's a continuation of a bike lane: https://www.google.com/maps/@-35.210493,149.1907964,3a,75y,1…

        • ThithLord on 18/11/2024 - 09:09
          +2

          Car-brains aren't the smartest

          • Assburg on 18/11/2024 - 09:26
            +3

            @ThithLord: In before overweight steering wheel warrior shrieks "But there was only one line its a place for cars to stop not cyclists to ride!"

            • ThithLord on 18/11/2024 - 09:54

              @Assburg:

              Steering-wheel warriors

              Haven't heard that one before. Stealing it

      • Widget on 18/11/2024 - 09:15
        +1

        Some breakdown lanes are also considered cycle lanes.

        • Euphemistic on 18/11/2024 - 09:30

          By who? There is a set of criteria that make it a bike lane. Just because many cyclists choose to ride in the shoulder/breakdown lane doesnt make it a cycle lane.

          • ThithLord on 18/11/2024 - 10:47

            @Euphemistic: Regardless, the road that OP was on has a bike lane on the shoulder.

          • Widget on 19/11/2024 - 04:20

            @Euphemistic: The Government. In NSW for example, the breakdown lane on the M5 is also considered the cycle lane. There's others but I'd have to look them up.

            OP showed a google-maps image of the location. It clearly showed that lane was the cycle lane.

  • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:48
    +1

    As said in the post, I have NOT received the infringement notice, but details were taken. I wanted to understand what the forum thinks, given this is quite a novel scenario!

    • lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:53

      LOL, I wish! It was clear as crystal, the picture from Google maps is foggy as :D

  • TEER3X on 16/11/2024 - 20:54
    +7

    I tried to point out that the bike lane was free and it is a separate lane

    I don't think people, such as the police, like it when the other person is argumentative.

    Could you have avoided the fine by apologizing and pleading ignorance?

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:18

      I would have thought the charges would be something like ignoring the instructions of a police officer and interfering with a crime scene, I think OP would be lucky to lose demerit points.

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:05

      Agreed. However, I was more surprised/shocked rather than argumentative. In hindsight, I could/should have apologised and recognised my fault.

  • Downvoter on 16/11/2024 - 20:55
    +5

    So do you want the police to waste two vehicles blocking every cm of the road or expect people with an ounce of sense to realise it’s blocked and don’t go fvcken through. Phux sake.

    • Bren20 on 17/11/2024 - 21:20
      +5

      Maybe a traffic cone?

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:07

      Cones and signages?

      • Seiko on 20/11/2024 - 09:52

        So by your logic, if the road allowed it, you could legally overtake everyone, including a police car, as they were not blocking the other side of the road?!

        I'm not a big fan of the cops, but good on them for picking you up.

    • smartazz104 on 19/11/2024 - 22:48

      The one time American trucks could be useful.

  • kerfuffle on 16/11/2024 - 21:04
    +10

    Sounds like the person on the motorbike who decided to ignore the police cars and go through a crime scene on the Sydney Harbour Bridge recently: https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/news/news_article?sq_content_s…

    • JIMB0 on 16/11/2024 - 21:58
      +6

      Haha, that guy isn't very bright drawing attention to himself with no rego/insurance, suspended license, and a dodgy number plate. Got done for speeding as well.

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:20
      +1

      Seems to be the OP could be going down for about 1/2 of the same

  • Euphemistic on 16/11/2024 - 21:15
    +9

    Doesnt look like a bike lane, just a shoulder.

    Did the police car have any message on the back such as 'road closed'?

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:28
      +4

      No messages, cones, signs.
      It is an extension of a bike lane, with no "end bicycle lane" signs in between.

  • brotherfranciz on 16/11/2024 - 21:34
    +6

    I agree with all the comments here: that's just a shoulder and not a bicycle lane.

    That's not to say you should have been cycling in the road lane instead of the shoulder, but common sense should have prevailed. It was a bad idea to think you could cycle through an accident scene with police closing the road!

    Also, what were you thinking with all the debris and glass on the road?! Think of the pain and suffering of needing to fix a puncture! The police officer probably did you a favour stopping you!

    • ThithLord on 18/11/2024 - 09:13
      +1

      It is a bike lane. You can't see it in OP's picture but the shoulder is Green, as it's a continuation from the Bike lane.

      • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:08

        It is an extension of a bike lane indeed.

  • JIMB0 on 16/11/2024 - 21:49
    -3

    Lawyer up and contest it. Don't wait for the fine to come in the mail, contact a lawyer first thing next week and start the ball rolling. This is winnable.

  • timps on 16/11/2024 - 22:02
    +4

    How the hell do you have a license?

    There's no bike lane, and even if there was, you rode past a cop car. It wasn't blocking "just one lane", it was clearly blocking the road. All of it. If you were in a car and it was two lanes, you wouldn't think it was ok to drive through there.

    There's nothing novel about it.

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:09
      +6

      "How the hell do you have a license" - because I have never been fined, obey road rules, and make occasional humane mistakes, I think.

      • Euphemistic on 18/11/2024 - 18:22

        How the hell do you have a license

        Thats actually pretty funny. Everyone knows getting a licence isnt hard, and noone gets tested ever again untilmthey need to prove they are not too frailafter about 50 years of driving.

  • Lets Go Brandon on 16/11/2024 - 22:04
    +1

    Unlikely to receive a ticket but it's an easy contest anyway.

  • snappy1234 on 16/11/2024 - 22:58
    -2

    Time to jail errant Cyclists

  • pegaxs on 16/11/2024 - 23:09
    +1

    Just so you know… and I am not sure if this was in NSW or not, but the rule is similar in other states…

    Road Rule 304: Direction by a police officer or authorised person

    It is a $400+ fine and 3 points. I don’t think that points should apply to bicycle riders though, that’s a bit tough.

    If you are from ACT as your profile suggests, it appears the fine is $167 and 3 points.

    • BobLim on 17/11/2024 - 22:08
      +8

      Is a car with flashing lights an "authorised person" though? OP doesn't mention any officer actually giving any direction - sounds to me like they may have been a bit lax on the "roadblock process" in this case.

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:10

      Sounds about right - the officer said "a couple hundred dollars and 3 points".

  • Davo1111 on 17/11/2024 - 01:55
    +3

    you knew what you were doing.

    "why is this row of cars held up by police? I'll just blast through"

  • TrumpisKing on 17/11/2024 - 07:38
    -8

    What a load of 💩 . Just ANOTHER bs excuse to squeeze money out of innocent civilians. No wonder people don't have any respect for them or the government anymore.

    • EightImmortals on 17/11/2024 - 08:11
      -2

      Indeed, it's a real global epidemic at the moment. People are sick of it. Will they do something ultra-radical like not voting for the uni-party next election? Probably not. Govern me harder daddy!

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:24
      -1

      Some of us do. In fact I'm pretty sure you anarchists are a minority, just a loud one, as most are.

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