Yet Another Traffic Infringement Scenario - Should I Contest?

lazylionking on 16/11/2024 - 20:21
Last edited 19/11/2024 - 22:12 by 1 other user

So, in my 7+ years of being a driver, today was the first time I was stopped by the cops and was eventually told that I would be getting a fine, and that happened while I was on my bicycle!

The image that should pretty much sum up the scenario.

The picture should say it all - coming down an exit from the highway I saw a police vehicle stopping the main lane. I was in the dedicated bicycle lane. There was no debris or any signage on the bike lane, so I went along and immediately saw the accident scene on the grass island - motorbikes, cars, people - the whole lot.

I went for about 50 meters when a police vehicle came up to me with flashing lights. I stopped and was told that I should not have come this way, there was a car stopping the lane and this could be a crime scene. I tried to point out that the bike lane was free and it is a separate lane, and I slowed down etc., but to no avail. Apparently, I am getting a fine and demerit points.

What are your thoughts? Is there any point in disputing it?

Poll Options

  • 220
    At fault - pay the fine and move on
  • 5
    Not at fault - but there is no point in contesting
  • 128
    Not at fault - contest the infringement
Automotive

Comments

    • Randolph Duke on 18/11/2024 - 07:41

      No wonder people don't have any respect for them or the government anymore.

      You lot never have had any.

    • smartazz104 on 19/11/2024 - 22:49

      What a load of 💩

      Username checks out.

  • joshash on 17/11/2024 - 07:48

    Mate I doubt he's going to go back through his notebook and write you up for that.
    Always call them "sir".
    They hate that ;)

    • GordonD on 17/11/2024 - 08:05
      +4

      Always call them "sir". They hate that ;)

      Especially if they are female police officer.

  • stickingly on 17/11/2024 - 08:28
    +8

    As a cyclist, you are never going to get much sympathy from an Internet forum

    But in this case I think you are in the wrong.
    If it was me I would have stopped and made eye contact with one of the police people to get some acknowledgement as to whether it was OK to proceed or not

    • doctordv8 on 21/11/2024 - 14:46

      What? Apply common sense? Why start now?

    • Davo1111 on 26/11/2024 - 15:27

      As a cyclist, you are never going to get much sympathy from an Internet forum

      Tbf if this was a car or motorcycle, I'd be against OP too

  • SYLTB on 17/11/2024 - 10:56

    “It can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity! Or remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop!… ever… until you pay for it!”

  • IcemanF14 on 17/11/2024 - 11:17
    +1

    I'm sorry, but even on a bicycle, you're still using a public road, so points and fines for ignoring police direction should be no different to me riding my motorcycle on the road and using that shoulder to get around a blocked lane.

  • Drakesy on 17/11/2024 - 12:28
    +4

    IMHO
    This shouldn't be a fineable offense, a warning is justified. I do sympathise with the OP if they get demerits/fined. If you actively went out of your way to avoid the police's orders then you're in trouble.

    If the police car is blocking the road, consider the whole road blocked.

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:12

      This sums up my thoughts and future actions, ta!

  • Deals For Days on 17/11/2024 - 13:48
    +2

    Yeah main issue is, it doesn't look like a bike line just the shoulder of the road.

  • OBEY YOUR MASTERS on 17/11/2024 - 14:03
    -7

    Another nail in the coffin. Cyclists are a pest to other road users. Prove me wrong.

  • Dack Smith on 17/11/2024 - 14:17
    -2

    I’d say contest it, at least 50% of the time the cops are wrong and the court will vindicate you.

    Unless you want to donate more towards government coffers and the pollies slush funds

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:27
      -1

      at least 50% you say. hmmm do I think the OP would consider you credible??

      • HangryCakeStore on 19/11/2024 - 00:06
        -3

        Why side with government or people with too much power?
        cops are the only people allowed guns in Australia, which has been abused to much
        If u remembered covid times!

        • SlickMick on 19/11/2024 - 09:43
          +1

          If I was establishing a new civilisation, a police force would be high on my agenda.

          I wouldn't want to live in your anarchy.

          • HangryCakeStore on 19/11/2024 - 10:56

            @SlickMick: Anarchy from average people or corrupt power like covid, watching to much fear mongering news? Scared of people who don’t look the same as you..
            But u sound like you’d want to be on top of abusive power.. sad.

            • SlickMick on 19/11/2024 - 11:11
              +1

              @HangryCakeStore: I think we have different understandings of what anarchy is.

              I sound like I want to abuse power because I like having a police force and dislike anarchy? Something's sad, but I don't think it's me.

  • iand on 17/11/2024 - 14:38
    +1

    Is it actually a dedicated bike lane or just the road shoulder. It looks like just the road shoulder to me as your pic doesn't show anything designating it as a bike lane

  • djsweet on 17/11/2024 - 15:53
    +1

    If it’s a dedicated bike lane and it was not obvious the police were trying to block it, then you have grounds. There are places where the bike lane has separate traffic signals from the car lane. This implies stopping one does not necessarily carry to the other by default. It would come down to things like, was it a lane closure or a road closure? Could a reasonable person infer that it was a complete road closure etc.

    • gromit on 17/11/2024 - 15:59
      +4

      A reasonable person if in doubt stops and asks, they don't just proceed through.

  • SuperGreen on 17/11/2024 - 15:58
    -4

    Cyclists don’t have to abide by road rules as far as I know, you should fight it.

    • 2esc on 17/11/2024 - 18:22

      Yes red lights they can just ride through without a care in the world as the road rules dont apply to them.

      • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:29
        +3

        I'm starting to understand why some say it's pointless asking for advice here

  • Cave Fire on 17/11/2024 - 16:45
    -1

    It's one of those obscure laws imo. Ideally, you would think they would put down a traffic cone or physically block the lane. A photo of where the car was would help. So if it's over the border of the lane for example. Or parked far away.

  • Spootage on 17/11/2024 - 17:23
    -3

    Good. I hope you get the fine. I’m sick of seeing bike riders think they are above the law.

  • CommuterPolluter on 17/11/2024 - 17:46
    +3

    At risk of piling on this does seem a bit entitled. Cops seem a bit precious to issue a fine rather than just chew you out over it.

    • 2esc on 17/11/2024 - 18:26
      +3

      Maybe sick of warning people as the general public constantly ignoring basic rules. Personally the Police are too afraid of public perception these days and people know that.

      • CommuterPolluter on 17/11/2024 - 19:40
        -4

        Didn’t seem afraid of public perception shooting their little rubber bullets at the lockdown protestors.

    • SlickMick on 17/11/2024 - 21:31

      Law enforcement officers should stick to enforcing laws… oh wait

      • CommuterPolluter on 18/11/2024 - 08:08

        Nah but they should definitely double down on their strengths. Like tasing 95 year old dementia patients to death.

  • Kiro on 17/11/2024 - 20:21

    Common sense should have kicked in.

  • sumyungguy on 17/11/2024 - 21:13

    We've all forgotten to ask… dashcam footage?

  • BobLim on 17/11/2024 - 22:05

    Unless the car was accompanied by some sort of signage or an officer actually giving directions not to enter, it sounds a bit ambiguous to me.

    Maybe they just parked it there to chase someone off the road through a field? I'm not sure a parked car with some lights can actually issue directions to a person on behalf of a sworn officer?

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:14
      +2

      No signs or directions, just the flashing car.

  • DontNeedThis on 17/11/2024 - 22:53
    +1

    I was so disappointed when I opened the image and wasn't an MS paint drawing.

  • Randxyz123 on 18/11/2024 - 04:34
    +2

    Hmm tricky one… In once sense the police car blocking the car lane kinda stands to reason that the hard shoulder/bike lane is also blocked off. I would have probably flagged down an officer and asked if I could continue or should I try to find a different route.

    On the other hand the police could have coned off the lane so it was clear both were blocked.

    I remember a AMA on Reddit from a police officer. Here is the thing, DO NOT argue or reason with them. In this case I would have apologised and said I didn’t realise.

    From google maps as well, it looks like it was a continuation of a bike lane on a pretty busy road. Probably not the easiest place to find a different route.

    I would write in to contest it. Explain you didn’t know that the bike lane was also closed. Worst case you get a extra few weeks to pay it.

    Unless you were overly argumentative it is a bit tough to be getting a ticket for this.

    • CommuterPolluter on 18/11/2024 - 08:10
      -1

      I remember a AMA on Reddit from a police officer. Here is the thing, DO NOT argue or reason with them. In this case I would have apologised and said I didn’t realise.

      Thank God we’ve got reddit to the rescue lol

  • greater mimic on 18/11/2024 - 05:39
    +4

    You should have just apologised and turned around, it sounds like trying to argue it is what caused the infringement

  • rumblytangara on 18/11/2024 - 09:13
    -1

    As someone who has cycle commuted for decades:

    You're an utter clown.

    So the cop car stopping the traffic flow of cars should have been the giant clue that the road was closed. Your bike is legally a vehicle and you chose to ride past it anyway 'because there was no cop bike with flashing lights closing the cycle lane as well'

    FFS talk about being willfully thick.

    The funny thing here is if you'd gotten off your high horse bike and walked, you might have been fine because then you're a pedestrian instead of controlling a vehicle and just got shouted at to turn around or stay away. But no, you decided to ride a legal vehicle into an accident scene because of some utter technicality.

  • JDMcarfan on 18/11/2024 - 09:13
    +1

    My 2c, but OP I don’t want to make a judgement as to your fault, but do think this is a fair reason to have heard in court. You would’ve been better to apologise and offer to turn around at the time instead of talking back but what’s done is done.

    Explain your decision process and the fact you’ve gone to minimise impact on the crime scene (which you didn’t know was the case, seemed like a regular old accident)

    Knowing this is the exit off the Federal Hwy and onto Majura I’d have reason to believe that having this route blocked off would significantly impact your trip home and you weren’t otherwise indicated an alternative route (I.e an officer waving you down, having a chat and telling you to skirt around the other side of the grass island).

    Anyways if by chance you are a NSW resident, I haven’t had an ACT fine carry demerit points across (last one was years ago though), so might be one less thing to worry about.

    Would recommend, petitioning against the fine. Admit the fact you passed the car but that you had little other indication to know the bicycle lane/shoulder was also blocked to traffic (as accident was located away from there). Escalate to court and likewise ask for a section 10 from the magistrate and acknowledge a lesson learnt and you should be let off scot free. Best of luck

    Both you and the cop should’ve behaved differently imo. An apology from you and a warning from the officer would’ve been a much fairer closure, but everyone wants to assert dominance these days

  • Widget on 18/11/2024 - 09:20
    +1

    OP, go have a chat with a traffic-fine Lawyer. I'm sure there's many that have free consultation. They would have a better understanding of the situation than the Ozbargain comment section.

    If the cops send you a fine in the mail, it'll probably take 2-4weeks.

  • doctordv8 on 18/11/2024 - 09:24
    -3

    A Police vehicle has stopped the flow of traffic; you acknowledge that, and you have passed training and a Drivers Test.

    That if you apply common sense, is ALL traffic, including Cars, trucks, motor and pushbikes, and pedestrians.

    You sound ….come off entitled to me…. even if you are not…but just saying….that is how I read your blurb. I don't suffer stupid, and pushing the point there on scene(it is a dedicated bike lane), or in here, is not the smartest way to go.

    On the road and the Authorities have stopped traffic, if you think you are not part of that, ASK the question.
    Simples to save the infringement.

    Ask in Court, but as above asking time was on scene….. I doubt you have a leg to stand on.

  • Assburg on 18/11/2024 - 09:30
    -2

    Literally everyone arguing you did the wrong thing incorrectly think it's a road shoulder/stopping lane.

    Judges are generally smarter than these people OP, and they generally share disdain for these inept police officers who throw out infringements as a substitute for doing their job properly.

    If you try and talk to the police prosecutor about this they will probably withdraw it, noting they know all too well all of the above.

    • rumblytangara on 18/11/2024 - 09:44
      +2

      Literally everyone arguing you did the wrong thing incorrectly think it's a road shoulder/stopping lane.

      How did you conclude that?

      • Assburg on 18/11/2024 - 09:45
        +1

        By reading the comments.

        • rumblytangara on 18/11/2024 - 10:01
          +1

          Not very closely, it would appear.

    • doctordv8 on 20/11/2024 - 12:57

      The Judge will look at how the average / normal person/road user would see the police vehicle blocking the road.

      They will the OP as someone thinking they are above and beyond other road users stopped by a standard Police stoppage, and stand by the Infringement.

      Bike Lane or Road Shoulder argument is mute and immaterial.

  • EFC94 on 18/11/2024 - 10:58

    The problem with common sense is that it's not very common. How can anyone with more than half a braincell see police stopping traffic right next to them and think "yeah, I'll be fine to go round this because I'm on a bike".

  • sujiferro on 18/11/2024 - 12:21
    +2

    Wait till infringement arrives. I have contested similar scenario fine before and got waived.

    • admit fault
    • be clear but courteous
    • note your clean history
    • there are plenty of templates online you can copy & edit

    Police department ( the fines department) are usually prompt

    • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:24
      +1

      Agreed, this is what I am planning to do.

    • Widget on 19/11/2024 - 04:27

      Did you get fees reimbursed ?

  • lazylionking on 18/11/2024 - 12:23
    +3

    Thanks for all your thoughts, concerns, advice, and insinuations!

    At this point, I plan to admit the fault and request that the infringement be withdrawn based on my good driving record. If that does not work, I do not think I will go to the length of disputing it—rather, I will learn my lesson and move on.

  • epicanova on 18/11/2024 - 12:45
    +4

    Easy contest. It's a one-way road, there is no legal route for you to take. Sounds to me like the cop is from the same ilk as many of these comments, drivers who want to impose unreasonable demands on cyclists out of spite.

    • EFC94 on 18/11/2024 - 13:04
      +2

      How is it an unreasonable demand? The only thing unreasonable around here is OP thinking they can go past a police stop without a care in the world.

      • epicanova on 18/11/2024 - 13:24
        +4

        It's a one-way road, and the bike lane was not blocked. The police failed to provide clear directions for people to stop and a pathway for them to safely turn around. Your ability to make reasonable arguments is being clouded by your anti-cyclist prejudice.

        • gromit on 18/11/2024 - 14:14

          It is a simple turning lane, with that blocked they could have simply continued on straight and turned left at traffic lights.

        • EFC94 on 18/11/2024 - 14:17
          -1

          I am a cyclist and when I’m not cycling I will happily give as much space as I can to the cyclist. However in this case OP was not riding in a bike lane but rather the road shoulder, anyone with an ounce of common sense in this situation would see the police blocking the road right beside them and realise what is happening.

  • Xistre on 18/11/2024 - 13:35

    Likely to be at fault, but I would try to contest still!

  • BeauKilla on 18/11/2024 - 14:16
    +1

    Why even ask here, ozbargain is full of media pirating bootlickers. They'll tell you you're a bad person and lucky you're only getting a fine while they're downloading their 2nd TB of wares for the day 😖

  • movieman on 18/11/2024 - 14:51

    Strange.

    I'd contest it if it arrives.

  • Fredfloresjr on 18/11/2024 - 16:37

    Based on the POLL, no wonder why insurance/car repair are the most blooming businesses here in Oz. Lol.

  • I like freestuff on 18/11/2024 - 17:14

    OP I'd be very surprised if that ticket actually ends up being submitted.

    • gromit on 18/11/2024 - 18:21
      +2

      I wouldn't, it really depends on how rude/argumentative he was. Just like any other profession you have to deal with, politeness goes a lot further than being an ahole yet so many don't seem to get this.

  • diondai1 on 19/11/2024 - 08:36

    Absolute animals - And they have the cheek to write on their cars complaining about their wages in VIC… Take the bastards all the way through the courts.

  • drprox on 19/11/2024 - 10:39
    +2

    You should have the option "at fault but contest". Sounds ridiculous.

  • haemolysis on 19/11/2024 - 12:24
    +1

    Do I think you necessarily did the right thing? Well, not really. It's a bit nitwit to have gone through just because "well, I'm on the bike lane, hehe"

    But I don't think it's right to fine you simply because you are stupid. If they want to block bikes and pedestrians they should block it off clearly. I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and a warning. A fine is a bit much.

    That said, it would help your case if you had a photo demonstrating the scene you encountered, that is, showing that you didn't evade any barriers or anything. But you don't. So. Good luck!

  • maverickjohn on 19/11/2024 - 15:31
    +1

    In all honesty it's a little bit of common sense that if they block the road, the bike lane would also be blocked.
    I feel like you should have been given a warning but it's still your fault here. A fine is a little overkill. Maybe fight for a lighter penalty as you didn't experience this situation before

  • Cheaparoo on 19/11/2024 - 19:21
    +1

    How much more time & kms would you need to peddle if did a U-turn and re-routed to continue your journey to your destination?
    As it's some obscure law, consider contesting it, even sending a cost order to the Police for wasting your and tax payer money to engage the legal system to contest it.

    The path of least resistence with revenue collection bonus for Police is to write a fine.

    Hence maybe withhold your ID details this lack of thoroughness of blocking the road and bike lane omission by Police officer happens again? It's his/her untidy work, not yours and you shouldn't be paying for it. Else it's entrapment.

  • brbgrcgukdhreuin on 19/11/2024 - 21:55
    +2

    LoL at everyone banging on about "You should know the road rules". Reading the rules seems to indicate OP did nothing wrong.

    Here's the relevant section from the ACT Road Rules Handbook:

    Emergency vehicles
    Police and other emergency vehicles such as fire engines and ambulances are usually equipped with warning devices such as flashing lights and sirens.
    When a police or emergency vehicle approaches sounding a warning or flashing its lights, drivers of other vehicles must clear a passage. This could mean stopping to let it pass or moving out of the way. You must also give police and emergency vehicles every opportunity to overtake safely. You must slow down to 40km/h when passing a stationary or slow moving emergency vehicle.
    These requirements take priority over every other road rule.

    The legislation (18.1 300C) says the same.

    Hmm, OP were you doing over 40km/h?

    • lazylionking on 19/11/2024 - 22:10

      Thanks for digging this up, and I surely was not doing 40 km/h on my bike.

    • gromit on 21/11/2024 - 22:48

      in what way does that have anything at all to do with a closed road?

      • brbgrcgukdhreuin on 22/11/2024 - 19:40

        Nothing at all to do with a closed road, but it's the only mention in the ACT Road Rules handbook of "emergency vehicles".

        The handbook makes no mention of road closures and only the following mention of disobeying traffic directions from signs or police:

        Disobeying major regulatory traffic control sign or Police directing traffic ….. 3 Points

        @factor below found the legislation relating to road closures and following police directions.

        It's in no way obvious that an emergency vehicle with flashing lights stopped in a car lane is closing the road to all traffic. The handbook only gives instructions on how an emergency vehicle with flashing lights may be passed.

        • gromit on 23/11/2024 - 12:20

          Driving on road closed to traffic

          A person must not drive a vehicle on a road that is closed to traffic under the Act, section 30 (Road or road related area may be closed temporarily to traffic).
          Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

          • brbgrcgukdhreuin on 25/11/2024 - 22:22

            @gromit: Can you describe what should have clearly indicated to OP that the police officer had closed the road to traffic?

            Don't just say "police car stopped in the lane with red+blue lights on", because it's totally legal and normal to pass a stopped emergency vehicle with lights flashing, in a safe manner, as described in the ACT Road Rules handbook.

            • gromit on 25/11/2024 - 23:58

              @brbgrcgukdhreuin: You mean apart from a police vehicle blocking the only lane? you can pass a police vehicle to the side of the road not one that is blocking the road.

  • serbpie on 20/11/2024 - 07:15

    Did the cop car have the message updated on roof for "road closed" or similar? If not, contest IMO

    • Davo1111 on 26/11/2024 - 15:33

      If op answers this question, it's essentially an admission that they saw the police car.

  • danwylie on 20/11/2024 - 10:44
    -1

    What state are you in? And are you on an e-bike? As far as I'm aware there are no demerit point for bicycles in any state in Australia, it's one of those rumours that gets around and becomes "common knowledge", like double demerits on holidays in Victoria. But I'm in Vic, so if your state changed it since the last time I looked ymmv. E-bikes are a fuzzy area because a bike is considered to be a vehicle, and an ebike might be considered a motor vehicle in some states potentially allowing things like breath testing, which isn't allowed for bicycles (also public intoxication is no longer an offense in Victoria), or other offenses that normally only apply to cars trucks motorbikes etc.

    Did they write it out on the spot? Or will it arrive in the mail? Because I suspect if it's the latter they'll probably figure out it's not a demerit thing and it'll likely never arrive.

  • factor on 20/11/2024 - 11:44
    +2

    I'd say the most relevant parts of ACT law relate to road closure by a police officer:
    https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_act/rtatm…
    https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/act/consol_reg/rtrr2…

    Driving on road closed to traffic:
    A person must not drive a vehicle on a road that is closed to traffic under the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999section 30 (Road or road related area may be closed temporarily to traffic).

    (1) A police officer may—
    (a) close a road or road related area to traffic during a temporary obstruction or danger to traffic or for any temporary purpose; and
    (b) give directions to prevent the traffic of any vehicles, people or animals in or on a road or road related area closed to traffic under paragraph (a) or under the authority of another Act.
    (2) A person must not, without reasonable excuse, contravene a direction of a police officer under this section.

    Pleading not-guilty in magistrates court is an interesting experience - I think it is a worthwhile one to understand something of how our legal system works. If you obeyed all directions given by a police officer in person (ie: not just a car stopped with flashing lights) then 1(b) is not met. However the open question is whether 1(a) was met by the police car blocking the lane - potentially with its sign saying "road closed". If the court considers the road to have been closed, you are guilty whether or not a police officer gave you directions personally.

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