How do we fix the two-tier higher education system?

How do we fix the two-tier higher education system?

Recently there have been many articles in the newspaper about illiterate students graduating from the Big G08 universities with poor skills. It is a sad state of affairs.

I can state from my own personal experience that there is definitely a big difference between the quality of an international student and that of a local student that has studied at the same university. Why that is the way it is very complex, and we probably need to discuss those underlying factors such as family upbringing, passion for their career, dedication to the community or country, and more. (Discuss below in comments please. I would like to know your opinion.)

This also flows into another discussion about whether migrant qualifications are the same because frankly they are not. If you have a Bachelors from some third world country, how is that equivalent to a bachelors in IT engineering or bachelors of computer science from UNSW -> Albeit I digress for one minute to clarify and state there is also a two-tier system for locally obtained qualifications which is the issue discussed in the paragraph directly above. The same issue arises with a bachelors in engineering, as we might use substantially different materials in Australian construction which would not be reflected in the topics covered in a Bachelors degree from a third world country. (Now, I hope I haven't offended any Poms who may also view themselves as migrants, but nevertheless what word can I use here instead? I added the word third world to assist, but maybe that doesn't quite capture the issue. Nevertheless, How can I be descriptive of the problem, but at the same time be politically correct. Let me know in the comments.)

There are two main issues to discuss here:

First is the fact that a migrant qualifications are not the same even though they have the same title name in their qualification. How do I put it simply? I am a CEO, but that does not mean I'm earning $30+ million advising the Qantas Board members.

Secondly, the qualifications obtained locally are not of the same standard because the Big G08 universities want to keep the revenue money making machine running and therefore the standards are much more loose. (Have you experienced this during your university studies, I definitely did. You probably did have that student that didn't have a clue but leeched off the group assignment marks. Or am I the odd multicultural fanatic and you guys just stuck with your own peers from high school; was I the only one to actually do group assignments with these international students? Let us know in the comments.)

As you can see from my background, you can probably tell I thought multiculturism worked, but now I can't say that anymore.

At best a lot of the Bachelors in IT from a third world (substitute politically correct word here) country are basically equivalent to TAFE Cert IV or III of IT. Something mentioned in this news article I saw recently involved an engineer. Now I don't have any experience in civil engineering, and I don't know what equivalent that would be in the TAFE system, but you probably could still get a job in the construction industry. Why most migrants choose not to do so is questionable. (Another topic you might want to discuss below, let us know.) Now you wouldn't exactly be able to walk onto the site and start constructing apartments in Sydney because frankly you probably don't know where to find the Australian standards or even know what they are, but you could be supervised as a labourer.

With 1 in 33 people in Australia being an international student. These ultimately flow on to some type of graduate visa and become permanent migrants. Then we ask ourselves what have we done, when these people could never have been productive in our society because they don't meet our standards in the areas that we have a skills shortage in as they require more training. Are we doing ourselves a disservice?

The other thorn employers have on their side are the societies that keep promoting the skills shortage, no one should fund these, cancel your yearly subscriptions. No more money to the ACS, no more money to Engineers Australia, no more money to your local group. I can take a local for the same amount we are probably spending on bringing in a migrant/international student because frankly let's not kid ourselves, they need just as much training.

Let's face it; this was never about a skills shortage, it was the members of these powerful lobby groups that just wanted the pipe dream of having high quality workers without having to train them. These lobby groups have infiltrated the political sphere. We should only have niche visas given out to those who have worked for the big Silicon Valley companies. That is what we need, if anything ACS should be promoting that.

Comment, maybe you are an employer who has also experienced such the two-tier education system. How do you propose that we deal with it?

Hopefully we can come together with some great ideas on how we can help Australia.

Most paragraphs are like a mini topic you can explore. (Brackets are a hint you can discuss that topic with the community). Hopefully that makes sense. It's long but you can cherry pick your own topic, or stick to the two main topics in the area below the part in bold.

Comments

  • +2

    Its too late!

  • INB4 the open borders types declare that OP was a victim of the two-tier education system…

  • I've skimmed your wall of text and am not entirely sure what you're banging on about. Has it got anything to do with engineers from overseas working as uber drivers?

  • +5

    I've been stuck with useless people in projects, through high school, uni and at work with local people. Useless people come in all shapes and sizes.

    I know in some Asian countries, learning is more memory based than actually understanding the nuances.

    • +3

      I'd have to agree.

      Some of my best and brightest workers have had no degree. Some of the worst have been locals who've done masters and very high level university training. Similarly I've had terrible foreigner workers, and absolutely brilliant ones as well.

      There may be a two-tier system in terms of stupid and not stupid people, but level of education itself and where they came from I've found is largely irrelevant to how well someone performs. It helps to get someone in the door but afterwards it's irrelevant.

      • +1

        It's a problem of having the right person doing the right job. The best and brightest in doing one thing doesn't always mean the same case in everything. Unfortunately our current economic and societal system is not that supportive in ensuring that each person can get the right job for them.
        And you still want the worst to still have jobs instead of just living on a dole.

      • +2

        I'm biased because I work in recruitment, but it's why a half decent recruitment team is important. They need to be more than just a filter for resumes, they need to be able to figure out if someone is an idiot or not, along with a cultural fit and such. A decent hiring process can really reduce turnover and improve performance. Once place I worked we hurt ourselves because we billed per hire, and we reduced turnover in the call centre dramatically, smashed our own revenue (client loved us though).

        Personally I give very little weight to CVs, university, etc. I do testing. Amazing how poorly some people do on basic analytics tests.

        Granted, there are also terrible recruitment teams who don't know how to find good people. That's a problem in itself.

  • +4

    no TLDR, no deal
    .

  • +2

    I feel that OzBargain is definitely the appropriate forum from which to influence Australian higher education policy.

    • -1

      It's a bit like talking to your imaginary friend when there's no one who'll listen. Makes you feel like there was a difference.

  • +3

    How do we fix the two-tier higher education system?

    Which tier teaches students that often less words can convey more meaning?

  • Brevity is the soul of wit.

  • +1

    I can tell you there are tiers in our universities, even within G8s.

    International students are pushed through due to overwhelming pressures from boards. Ive marked my fair share of 1st year UG essays and even a guaranteed entry ATAR is fair more sophisticated than an international student. Wrap it up however you like but these arent temporary exchanges, they are consuming spaces and resources that could be given to domestic students. I would rate their English skills at B1/2 level, certainly not the C1+ required for academics/professional outcomes.

    Which makes me question wtf is going on at the IELTS?

    The whole system is stuffed and domestic students need to make smarter choices.

  • Fix what? The universities are making a motza! That's what they have devolved into over the last 100 years or so. As long the money is rolling in they aint gonna change a thing.

  • Long term, we dilute the prestige and meaning in degrees from these Universities.
    My wifes recent experience doing an MBA: three people carried the working group. Some could barely converse in English. All passed.
    It may mot seem like it now, during the International student feeding frenzy, but eventually it will.

    • +1

      So an opposing view on prestige that I just heard last night, from a mate who is a uni professor. He said that with whatever the current NSW government has proposed (TBH I have no idea, I don't follow the news much, something about moving money from unis to home grants or similar, will impact foreign students) their funding is dropping significantly. In his case it means that two schools within a faculty may combine, diluting their individual agency, resources, and ultimately prestige (his word). The knock on effect is that they will be less desirable for both teachers and students. This guy is generally a considered Labor voter but he had nothing nice to say about them last night.

  • third world (substitute politically correct word here) country

    Your looking for developing nation.

    Third World actually describes countries that were neural during the cold war. It was never a designator of economic output.

  • +1

    I’m more interested in why there’s so many bachelors in IT? Surely there’s a partner out there for them

  • Local students don't care about the quality of their education either. The majority of them also don't care about what they are learning. They just want to the do bare minimum to pass so they can get the piece of paper that lets them apply for a job.

  • Let me guess, some international student / engineer broke your heart and now you're salty. I'd hire an international student / graduate any day, so the hard work I'm not willing to!

  • I am a CEO, but that does not mean I'm earning $30+ million advising the Qantas Board members.

    Unless you're the CEO of a consultancy, CEO's report to the board. They sure as hell don't advise the board. They update the board, answer to the board, get praised or their ass kicked by the board, etc.

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