Fence Replacement - Neighbour Has Given Me Two Quotes

Unacceptable on 17/08/2024 - 16:28
Last edited 17/08/2024 - 17:36 by 1 other user

I got a letter in the letter box, from my next neighbour's real estate agent, asking for fence installation costs to share.

It included two quotes from their contractors and says the fence is unrepairable and requires a new installation. ($6k in total for one side, $3k for my portion).

The fence sharing with the neighbour is actually in good condition and I would never think of doing anything, but (edited**) the other side of the neighbour fence sharing with another neighbour needs a definite replacement as I see that there are props installed against the leaning fence.

No neighbour nor the agent has come in contact with me to discuss about this.

What should I do?

Home & Garden Fence

Comments

  • Fredfloresjr on 17/08/2024 - 16:37
    +61

    Ignore the letter

    • fantombloo on 17/08/2024 - 17:32
      +9

      No neighbour nor the agent has come in contact with me to discuss about this.

      Insulting IMO. If they're uncomfortable / unable to talk to you about it at least they could write you.

      • AustriaBargain on 18/08/2024 - 01:54
        +12

        Sounds like the neighbour doesn't actually live there and may never live there. Nothing to lose by ignoring it.

    • trapper on 19/08/2024 - 11:20
      -2

      No don't ignore the letter.

      You need to address this or you will end up having to pay.

      • randomvis on 19/08/2024 - 12:14

        Exactly! Get evidence that it is a "sufficient fence" to the requirements of your State Fence/Property act— Then send them the evidence.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/08/2024 - 16:39
    +26

    i would get a quote for the cheapest fence you can and say you are only willing to 'pay half' that quote if they want anything else or to go with anyone else they will need to fork out the extra cost

    • 87percent on 17/08/2024 - 16:42
      +6

      Tell them you don’t have the money right now to spend on the fence

    • dogzilla on 18/08/2024 - 22:08

      i would imagine a real estate agent would just ask the cost of two contractors without too much care for cost or quality. Get your own quote and compare it if you decide to proceed.

      But yes, as others have said, there's no obligation to contribute but often occurs as a good faith negotiation.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 19/08/2024 - 10:06
      +11

      Re:

      'i would … say you are only willing to 'pay half' …'

      Why should the OP tell anyone he is willing to 'pay half' of anything, when his fence does not actually need replacing? Clearly the neighbour has at least one fence that needs replacing—which is not the fence that he shares with the OP—and the neighbour is trying to get the OP to pay half to replace a perfectly functional fence, so that he (the neighbour) can have 'all matching' fences surrounding his property.

      I would ignore the bad advice above suggesting that you offer to 'pay half' of anything, OP.

      Be sure to take detailed pics of your perfectly functional fence. Both sides.

      • rumblytangara on 20/08/2024 - 09:41

        Why should the OP tell anyone he is willing to 'pay half' of anything, when his fence does not actually need replacing?

        Because half the posters in this thread appear to be incapable of basic reading comprehension.

        • McFly on 20/08/2024 - 09:55

          Because half the posters on the Internet appear to be incapable of basic reading comprehension.

          FTFY

    • trapper on 19/08/2024 - 11:32
      +1

      The fence sharing with the neighbor is in good condition and does not need replacing. So no need to get any quotes or pay anything.

    • serpserpserp on 20/08/2024 - 15:57

      This is what I do and it works a treat. Neighbor wants colorbond, I want to keep wood panels. We do this little dance every two years. Fence is fine, but they are doing their best to keep wrecking it

  • EightImmortals on 17/08/2024 - 16:51
    +11

    "The fence sharing with the neighbour is actually in good condition and I would never think of doing anything, but the other side of the neighbour's needs a definite replacement "??

    How could a fence be in good nic on one side but falling down on the other? Needs MS paint drawing.

    • Unacceptable on 17/08/2024 - 17:17
      +30

      The fence sharing with mine isn't in line with the other leaning fence.
      Drawing the joining fences would look like below.

      I__I

      My fence sharing with the neighbour is on the left (I), and the leaning fence with neighbour A is on the bottom (_) and the other sharing fence with neighbour B is on the right (I).

      I can't see my fence would get any impact on even if the leaning fence would eventually fall.

      • EightImmortals on 17/08/2024 - 17:53

        So they are asking to replace the leaning fence?

        • Nereosis on 20/08/2024 - 13:27

          I'd assume they want to replace all three fences so they match which is what I would want to do.

          I think it's perfectly reasonable the OP doesn't want to pay though.

      • Settero on 17/08/2024 - 18:14
        +16

        if the fence between you and the neighbor is not damaged, you are not responsible to pay, if you choose to pay for whatever reason, you would really only be responsible for the half the payment of the fence between the two of you.

        kind of sounds like they are trying to get the damaged side replaced and have you pay for your side to be upgraded to match.

        and to clarify, is the total of both (I) and (I) 12k if not they are getting you to pay the full amount of your shared fence.

        • pebee47 on 19/08/2024 - 02:12
          +2

          A storm blew down 6 metres (1/2) of my fence with neighbour, He got quotes to replace whole 12 metres for $3360, including removal of old fence.

      • Some Human on 17/08/2024 - 22:15
        +31

        I like your fence drawing. Take my upvote.

      • AustriaBargain on 18/08/2024 - 01:56
        +4

        Neighbour wants to do all the fencing at once and wants you to pay for half your part. I guess if he doesn't replace it all at once then it won't match, might not look good if he's planning on asking astronomical rents in the years ahead.

        • kiitos on 18/08/2024 - 07:48
          +4

          But then the neighbour's neighbours (including OP) will have mismatched fences now.

          • lew380 on 18/08/2024 - 18:37
            +2

            @kiitos: Little does the neighbour know that op is an ozzbargainer and saves 5c/cup on coffee by buying 3 yrs in advance, he dont care about a mismatch. Can of paint is cheaper.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 19/08/2024 - 10:00
        +3

        So the neighbour wants to change the type of fences that surround their property currently, I'm guessing. At least one of the three is shot, possibly two, but not yours. Yours is fine. If that is all true, take a few decent pics of your (fine) fence, and tell the real-estate agent that you are not interested in paying anything to replace/change what is currently a perfectly functional fence.

      • entropysbane on 19/08/2024 - 14:33

        Well, they might be hoping to match the fences so they look the same. How long is the fence? $6k for say, 20m seems Ok to me.

    • Triceratops on 18/08/2024 - 08:15
      +2

      Easy, they may have been built at different times. It's the other side of the neighbour's property, not the other side of the fence in question.

    • 82norm on 18/08/2024 - 08:21

      @8immortals…you ain’t reading it right.

    • brad1-8tsi on 18/08/2024 - 08:30
      +6

      How could a fence be in good nic on one side but falling down on the other?

      My previous house was exactly like that. All the fences were different ages and styles.
      The timber fence on the west boundary was 20 years old and falling down with rotted poles in the ground.
      North boundary was 15 years old and colourbond.
      East boundary was 10 years old, timber and good condition.

  • Aleigh123 on 17/08/2024 - 16:59
    +1

    The fence sharing with the neighbour is actually in good condition and I would never think of doing anything, but the other side of the neighbour's needs a definite replacement as I see that there are props installed against the leaning fence.

    It seems to me that the fence looks fine from your side, but if the neighbour were to remove some props, perhaps the fence would no longer be standing. If so, is the fence really in good condition?

    • pjetson on 17/08/2024 - 17:09
      +5

      I read the OP's post that way at first, but then I wondered if perhaps they meant the fence on the other side of the neighbour's property.

  • holdenmg on 17/08/2024 - 17:03
    +1

    You can look up whatever the Fencing Act is in your State or Territory.

    Assuming the fence benefits both of you, your neighbour may seek Emergency repairs, so get a Quote of your own and consider your options from there.

    Look @ https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/ways-to-get-help/guided-path…

    • jaimex2 on 19/08/2024 - 00:32

      But it doesn't benefit him in any way, his side is fine. That's his issue.

  • try2bhelpful on 17/08/2024 - 17:06
    +7

    Presumably there is a contact number on the letter. I would ring them up and find out why they think the fence needs to be replaced. You might be able to get someone to come onsite to have a look at the fence with you.

  • Tech5 on 17/08/2024 - 17:08
    +4

    Your post is unclear - are you saying the your neighbour's other fence is falling down? Or are you saying their side of your shared fence is falling down?

    • 82norm on 18/08/2024 - 08:27

      @Tech5 the other side of the neighbour fence sharing with another neighbour needs a definite replacement…..

  • loulou1 on 17/08/2024 - 17:12
    +32

    i think what OP is trying to say that the neighbour's house has two side fences, one shared with another neighbour that requires repair, and one shared with OP that does not require repair. Neighbour may be wanting to replace all the fences at once for uniformity. If fence is fine, tell neighbour that you aren't interested.

    • Unacceptable on 17/08/2024 - 17:23
      +10

      This. I think they want the uniformity with colorbond all around (it was timber fence joining each side with neighbours including mine)

      • apsilon on 17/08/2024 - 18:35
        +30

        Take detailed photos just in case there's a dispute later. You could also write back so there's a record of you refusing and enclose the photos as proof no work is required.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 17/08/2024 - 19:32
        +11

        In that case they can sod off

        Take photos ASAP of the condition it's in because they may damage it to show it needs to be replaced

      • DoctorCalculon on 17/08/2024 - 20:15
        +10

        Surely, in that letter they have given you there are some contact details.
        Call the REA, and inform that under the Fences Act you are not obligated to pay for any costs in replacing a fence that is is not in a state of disrepair.

        Best to do this in writing with supporting evidence.

      • 82norm on 18/08/2024 - 08:30
        +6

        You’re not obligated to go to colorbond unless you agree to. It just needs to be like for like. If they’re desperate they can pay at they’re expense.

        • pebee47 on 19/08/2024 - 02:16
          +1

          In WA the diving fence Act says an unwilling neighbour can only be forced to pay 1/2 the cost of a basic fence.

      • Zapwap on 18/08/2024 - 12:34
        +5

        I think they want the uniformity with colorbond all around

        Ok then what about your remaining fences that you share with other neighbors and overall uniformity? You may reject their proposal based that.

    • brendanm on 17/08/2024 - 18:24
      +6

      Thankyou for the translation. OP tell them to shove their fencing quote.

  • fatherchicken on 17/08/2024 - 17:21
    +38

    this post should be removed as it may cause a fence.

    • Garry044 on 17/08/2024 - 17:30

      Be careful, it could be a gateway to further claims

      • cuteseal on 18/08/2024 - 22:50

        I dunno I'm kind of on the fence about that one…

    • reactor-au on 18/08/2024 - 08:41

      Thanks for the translation, much clearer

    • valuer on 18/08/2024 - 10:05
      +1

      No, fences are always posted.

  • TEER3X on 17/08/2024 - 17:33
    +8

    Which state are you in?

    If there's nothing wrong with the existing fence, you shouldn't have to pay anything.

    • oscargamer on 17/08/2024 - 19:32
      +4

      Correct, but you might have to respond to the letter saying you disagree.

    • jackspratt on 18/08/2024 - 15:12
      +2

      Which state are you in?

      Confusion, I suspect.

  • oscargamer on 17/08/2024 - 19:31
    -1

    Which state are you in?

    You need to read the legislation that applies to you. Ignoring the request might have implications.

    • Unacceptable on 17/08/2024 - 19:44
      +1

      NSW, that's the reason I was asking for orb opinions.

      • oscargamer on 17/08/2024 - 20:55
        +2

        What are orb opinions?

        • WhyAmICommenting on 18/08/2024 - 13:08

          I’d be more interested in zorb opinions.

  • Unacceptable on 17/08/2024 - 19:58
    +1

    Ok, now I re-read the letter sent to me.

    The subject of the letter (unclassified in red font) says "Notice to carry out fencing work - Dividing fences ACT 10991 - Section 11)"
    - Section 12 of the Dividing Fence ACT 1191 provides that adjoining owners may attend a Community Justice Centre in an attempt to reach an agreement concerning the carrying out of fencing work. If adjoining owners do not agree to the fencing work within 1 month after the service of this letter, either owner may apply to a Local court for an order determining the manner in which the fencing work needs to be carried out….

    Now it sounds serious..

    • Settero on 17/08/2024 - 20:22
      +17

      still sounds like they are trying to get you to replace a fence that is not damaged

      "Normally, the law says that you and your neighbor must equally share the cost of:

       building a dividing fence, where there is not one, or
repairing or replacing a dividing fence which has been damaged, destroyed or has deteriorated.
repairing or replacing a dividing fence that is not a "sufficient" dividing fence."

      https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/my-problem-is-about/my-neigh…

      most houses have up to 3 adjoining neighbors, 1 on ether side 1 behind, you are only responsible for the part between you and the adjoining neighbor, if 1 of their fences is damaged, this does not make all 3 adjoining neighbors responsible for upgrading all 3 dividing fences so that your 1 neighbor has a uniform fence.

      https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/whole/html/inforce/curre…
      In this Act:
      adjoining owners means the owners of land on either side of a common boundary.
      dividing fence means a fence separating the land of adjoining owners, whether on the common boundary of adjoining lands or on a line other than the common boundary.

      • Unacceptable on 17/08/2024 - 20:48
        +1

        mm… the thing is I don’t want it replaced as it’s not needed and how to stop them from pursuing it further.

        • brad1-8tsi on 18/08/2024 - 08:34
          -5

          Talk to the people that sent the letter rather than faff about here.

          Tell them you have no money and your credit cards / borrowing ability is maxxed out.

          There isn't much they can do but don't be upset if the fence on your side looks like poo.

        • infinite on 18/08/2024 - 19:05
          +9

          Send them back a letter with images of the fence in issue via registered mail, advising that as your fence is in a perfectly good state of repair, there is no reason to replace or alter it in any shape or form and as such you now consider the matter closed.

          That's it.

    • Bravado on 18/08/2024 - 00:21
      +10

      I think you're being railroaded because just one part of this guy's fence is falling over and he's being greedy and wants to upgrade to something "better" in the process.

      Don't be put off because you've been issued with a section 11. That's the requirement for formally asking neighbours to pay for a fence. Section 12 comes into it if you don't come to an agreement.

      If you're hoping it won't come to justice centre involvement, knowledge of the act and having documentary evidence of the whole situation (and getting a few free quotes yourself for your section of fence should it be actually damaged) will be the best weapons you have. You shouldn't have to pay for a colourbond fence if yours is unrepairable though. All you should be required to pay is equal share on a replacement timber one in the same design and with the same materials. If the neighbour wants a "prettier" fence, he's required to pay the difference himself.

      • andrek on 18/08/2024 - 08:02
        +3

        In addition to what @Bravado said, the other language for "adjoining owners may attend a Community Justice Centre" is "mediation". If two owners can't come to an agreement about what needs to be done and who's paying for what, they can involve Community Justice Centre to help them make that decision. So it's not that scary, at least not until "either owner may apply to a Local court".

        I'm in a similar boat, I was on the phone with council and justice centre last week.

    • Minimum chips on 18/08/2024 - 16:31
      +1

      Tell them to sod off because you're in NSW not the ACT.

      They might decide it's too much work just to explain it to you.

  • Porker on 17/08/2024 - 20:16

    Get a quote of your own for a wood pailing fence, if that's what's there and on assumption it actually needs replacing.

    Pailing should be cheaper than colourbond. At that point let them know that that's the half amount you'd pay and if they want better quality that they pay the difference.

  • R1ngSt1nger on 17/08/2024 - 20:19
    +4

    In Victoria, if your neighbour sends you a 'Notice of Fencing', and you don't respond within 30 days, they are entitled to do the proposed works without your permission and recover costs from you afterwards (via Magistrates court)

    Perhaps just look into the NSW fencing laws and make sure there isn't a requirement that you must respond… if there is, make sure you respond with 'no'.

    EDIT: Just read your comment above… sounds like you will need to respond. Worst case for you is that you'll need to pay half of the cheapest fence. If your neighbour wants the la-di-da Colorbond, then they will have to pay the entire amount above half the cheapest. Best case is they will pay 100% as your fence is in good repair.
    Example:
    Cheapest wooden pailing fence = $3000.
    Colorbond fence = $7000.
    You will pay $1,500, your neighbour will pay $5,500 if they insist on Colorbond

  • Unacceptable on 17/08/2024 - 20:59

    If I disagree with the replacement and the agent sends a fencing order and I need to be called in Local Court, will there be legal fee (lawyer?) involved?

    • Settero on 17/08/2024 - 21:06
      +10

      not a lawyer, this looks to have good info for you - https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/my-problem-is-about/my-neigh…

      but this looks like a scare tactic as its coming from a REA - sounds like they didn't speak to you first, they are making it sound legal and threatening which could be a scare tactic to trick you to accept to reduce their costs before selling to increase their commission .

    • Slinky0111 on 17/08/2024 - 21:14
      +25

      Sounds like you're not really listening to the advice thats given OP.

      1) take photos of the fence in question incase they damage the fence to make it irreparable.

      2) get another fencer out and ask for his professional opionion. Or even a landscaper. Is the fence in immediate situation that it needs to be pulled down and rebuilt? What is wrong with the current fence? Is it likely to last another 5 years etc? Get it in writing, even consider paying for his time.

      After you do number 2 (hehe) you will know what you need to do next.

    • kaleidoscope on 18/08/2024 - 15:55
      +6

      Whatever it is you do, do not ignore the letter. If you do, they have the right to carry out the works after certain number of days and you will be liable for your half of it. If you think your neighbour is trying to re-do the entire fence around their perimeter and even the parts that does not require repairing, you do not need to agree to this. Just investigate the matter further and

      1) try to confirm what they're doing exactly
      2) if the shared boundary between you and them does not require repairing, you can justify it
      3) if some parts require repair or replace, but not the entire fence, then propose that
      4) if you find out that the works are needed, but the quotes are unreasonable, then counter their quotes with yours.

      Also finally, say the shared border is 20m long and you find just 3-5m of that needs replacing, but the neighbour wants to do entire fence for aesthetic purposes, you are only liable for the shared cost of the said 3-5m. The remaining parts will be fully liable by your neighbour as it's their wish to do so and not a requirement.

      good luck!

    • Cheap Gamer on 18/08/2024 - 18:38

      Worth going just to hear the judge blast them for wasting the court's time. But it'll never reach court and they know that.

    • morebunnings on 19/08/2024 - 05:58
      +1

      Had friends go through this with their neighbor. There are no costs. It's more of a mediation then a court hearing. No lawyers involved.

      Have a chat with them and ask them why your side needs replacement. Walk on their property with them and take some photos of the fence from their side and your side, and also the broken fence at the back.

      If it goes to court, you have photos showing your side is fine, and as soon as you show them they're doing this becuaee the back fence needs replacing, the court will just throw it out.

      Rather than go to court, They might try to damage the fence to make it need replacement. If you have photos of before the damage, then you can show the court that the neighbour's damaged the fence because they want all 3 sides replaced. Then they will have to fix the damage or replace the whole fence.

      Either way, you can draw this out to about 3 to 6 months. 1 month before they apply for court arbitration, a few months to get a court date, then 1 month after court before you have to pay.

      • cadwalader on 19/08/2024 - 13:02

        This walk the ground with them idea is great. I would add that its better to take a video, with you chatting nicely with them (and hopefully them chatting nicely back). But mainly to show the state of the fence during which this discussion is taking place.

  • snappy1234 on 17/08/2024 - 21:47

    Surely erection of a new fence will stop the local Numbat/Possum/Bandicoot having access ;)

    Tis a thing.

    I know due to a family member having to >make< special access for possible Bandicoots in area

    • WhyAmICommenting on 18/08/2024 - 13:11
      +1

      ‘Hehe hehe. You said “erection”.’ ‘Yeah yeah!’
      - Beavis & Butthead

  • Aap Ke Papa on 17/08/2024 - 21:59
    +2

    If it's the fence with your neighbour and their other side of the neighbour, then it's their and their neighbour's problem and I am confused as you why you have been involved with this.

  • running on empty on 17/08/2024 - 22:03
    +8

    I think its clear that the owner is trying to screw you over. If it's a fence that is not shared by your property I would not pay a cent. Take video and photos of your fence, with clear reference to the date the photos are taken. If there are contact details on the letter then contact them and just ask them if they meant to send the letter to the other neighbour, as your fence is in good condition. Document everything, contact in writing (email) so you have evidence of trying to discuss this with them (if it goes to court).

  • Hardlyworkin on 17/08/2024 - 23:18
    +1

    Get a fence contractor to inspect your fence and quote $50 for some nails to repair / advise that it is fine.

  • AustriaBargain on 18/08/2024 - 01:58
    +3

    You could work out the expected depreciation of your fence, how many years you think it has left. But then your fences won't match unless you replace all your own fencing. When does it end, does it do a whole lap around the block until the neighbour is asked to update his own fence again?

    • Embaloo on 18/08/2024 - 11:57
      +1

      Lol this.

      Yeah i think the neighbour hasnt considered that everyone else's fences wont match.

      The neighbour can just paint the inside of their non-matching fences so that they match for uniform colour when their precarious fence section is repaired, but wear the cost of the painting themselves, as it's an aesthetic thing. It is rare these days to have matching fences, unless everything was built at the same time, even then you have everyone's personal preferences.

  • 82norm on 18/08/2024 - 08:17
    +6

    Have you thought of the possibility that some numbnut dropped the letter to the wrong neighbour, ie you?

    • bbinc on 18/08/2024 - 09:25
      +1

      Seeing it’s come from an REA that’s what I’ve been thinking.

  • Robz on 18/08/2024 - 08:29
    +3

    Fencing laws differ from state to state In SA need 3 quotes & fence needs urgent repair/ replacement
    Generally estate agents DO NOT KNOW THE LAW & push the envelope. Technically only needs to be a 6 foot high basic fence. Do nothing if it is in reasonable order take both sides of fence pics & go to court They will need to initiate proceedings & issue formal legal notice attendance to court & no lawyers are involved as it is civil court Let the magistrate decide

  • 82norm on 18/08/2024 - 08:37
    +7

    Take photos. Speak to them and try to reach an agreement. If that fails and they take you to tribunal you’ve got evidence to back your side of the argument. Document emails, phone calls, conversations.

    • So Was Red on 18/08/2024 - 09:21
      +1

      +1 for take photos

  • 2esc on 18/08/2024 - 09:37
    +1

    If you do have to replace the fence the cheapest quote may cut corners.

    Such as using rapidset ive seen dozens of fences at new subdivisions leaning over.

    Pine rails breaking when the first kid climbs on it.

    Green palings warping.

    I wouldnt agree unless its clear in the quotes.

  • Dubsys on 18/08/2024 - 13:18
    +5

    Post pictures

    • john_conner on 18/08/2024 - 15:54
      +6

      Also Paling pics

      • kiitos on 18/08/2024 - 16:08
        +3

        Good joke, nailed it!

  • McFly on 18/08/2024 - 13:45
    +3

    Ignore any legalese/threats. Simply tell the estate agent the fence does not need replacing, therefore you will not be contributing to its replacement.

  • AnotherRedLight on 18/08/2024 - 15:25
    +7

    Easy peasy to reply to. (Not ChatGPT)

    Hi,

    Thank you for your letter requesting half of the fence replacement.

    As the fence located between the boundaries of x location and x location is currently in good condition, i am unfortunately unable & not required to pay for half due to tight cost of living pressure at the moment.

    Please see enclosed photos dated xx/xx/xxxx of fence in good standing and condition. I will keep these on file for reference of future fence upgrade requirements.

    If you still did wish to proceed paying the full cost to match your other fence upgrade, please advise at least 1 week in advance a date of replacement so i can ensure safe access for workers as i have pets that could escape.

    Thank you,
    Unacceptable

  • kiitos on 18/08/2024 - 16:12

    How have you checked that your fence is in good condition? I ask because in our house, the previous owner had all fences replaced and as a result the palings were all facing inwards, so it looked nice from his point of view. It all looked good.

    Years on, a neighbour approached saying the fence we shared was wobbly. Even though it looked fine from our side, it was wobbly (not yet leaning though). Annoyingly the cause was the neighbour piling dirt and mulch against the fence, rotting the posts and bottom rails.

    • kiitos on 20/08/2024 - 19:45

      Wonder why this was negged?

    • Unacceptable on 20/08/2024 - 19:51

      Interesting, and what happened next?

      • kiitos on 20/08/2024 - 20:00

        A kind gesture from someone kind.

  • grr1701 on 18/08/2024 - 17:24
    +2

    He’s going to take the opportunity to replace ALL his fences with matching ones since he has to replace one lot. Ignore the request.

  • Cheap Gamer on 18/08/2024 - 18:25

    The nerve of them trying to make you to pay for their upgrade. If your fence stands on it's own, they can go to hell.

    "UNACCEPTABLE!!! ONE MILLION YEARS DUNGEON"

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