Where do you stand on the Raygun break dancing fanfare?
For or against her inclusion in the games and performance.
Raygun - Legend or Letdown?
mr fox on 12/08/2024 - 11:33
Poll Options
- 205Fantastic, what a legend
- 1013Self indulgent, disappointing
Comments
If you just wanna have fun go compete in local competions wtf is this logic
I would love to see her Oceania Championship routine
lol. she looked like my Roborock trying to get out of a tight space
Wow, that was dreadful. But i'm no professional so I can't really comment on why its bad.
Had to wash my eyes with the gold medal match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nrOQjNTXKgDid you hear she's changed her name??? Now she wants be know as Walter White… Breaking Bad… Badum tissh!
Video not available.. hmm
Absolutely atrocious.
its even worse
Dats way too many exclamation marks
and downvotes lol
everything aside i can admire the enthusiasm / energy
Energy? You mean lack of? Coz that's what I saw.
Its Olympics. I'd expect better. Did you see how awesome other dancers (athletes) were. If you compare her dance with others, you will have the answer. Some of the moves were …….. She was seen struggling to improvise steps on the rhythm.
For those who are sayign its unique, yes I agree within Aus its good. great i must say, but on world stage?
She wasnt the only one to score lowly. There were 2-3 that scored zero points. I think she just got lost it the weeds and didnt know how to compete at the level of many of the other dancers.
Whats funny is breaking is cut from the next olympics anyways. And for what its worth might not ever return.
Let's hope so
When you smash two bottles of prosecco and want to have a boogie
Ill say this the 'sport' of breaking in general was a let down
Her performance was terrible but in the end of the day it is not too different to the swimmer/runner/cyclist etc that goes to the games and finishes last in the 1st heat
Her performance was terrible but in the end of the day it is not too different to the swimmer/runner/cyclist etc that goes to the games and finishes last in the 1st heat
I'm guessing those swimmers/runners are still a lot better than your average 12 year old.
She got zero points. That suggests to me she didn't understand the requirements of the competition.
But, she;
- has Phd in breaking.
- is a judge on breaking competitions
- won WDSF Oceania
- she has funds to participate in competitions.
Macquarie be giving out phd to anyone now
She is also a lecturer, so more like she is an academic who lacks practicality/skill. Or one of those ppl, I got PhD, don't argue with me :)
has Phd in breaking.
Goes on to get 0 points at the Olympics.
If that's not damning of the PHD system at Macq Uni I don't know what is.
DO we pile on every athlete that comes last in any other event? Dont think so!
@hazzad: The difference is that those athletes are still a lot better than the average 12 year old . This "breaker" is not.
You can read her PhD here. I'm not smart enough to understand the language used:
https://figshare.mq.edu.au/articles/thesis/Deterritorializin…
@RedHab: It's a bit long, so only had time for a quick skim, but essentially seems to be questioning why breakdancing is so heavily male-dominated, particularly because most dance styles are heavily female-dominated. Also about challenging the breakdancing "norms" to potentially make it more accessible to female participants.
I'm not sure if this was what she was doing with her Olympic performance, and if it was how successful it was. I will say though, I did not even know breakdancing was an Olympic sport until this stuff came up, so maybe even if it didn't go as planned it will bring in more women attempting to qualify and thus improve the quality of our competition at the next Olympics.
so maybe even if it didn't go as planned it will bring in more women attempting to qualify
Given how cringeworthy the performance was I severely doubt it will make it more popular for more women to enter the sport.
Sports become more popular when the country's entrants do well, are admired, or win gold medals. Not when they score a string of zeros and make the country a laughingstock.
I was in Hong Kong when they won their first gold medal ever (windsurfing). The sport exploded there for the next several years.
and thus improve the quality of our competition at the next Olympics.
The quality of our competition could have easily been improved already, simply by selecting more skilled competitors from the beginning.
@Miss B: break dancing isn't an Olympic sport, this was a one off thing, each host nation picks some events to trial at the Olympics and thankfully with her performance I think it puts the nail in the coffin of it ever returning.
Maybe the AOC had too much weighting on Raygun’s written application?
I had a quick scan of her PhD thesis abstract at the weekend. It was about the social aspects rather than "how to". You can be an expert in a subject without being able to do it. Just imagine if those with PhDs in subjects like the mating habits of Himalayan mountain goats had to be good at it too.
But she got a Phd and we don't 😅
@boomramada: Well you know how to fix that - get jiggy with some mountain goats! No, hang on… not sure that's what I meant.
it's basically a highschool social sciences essay gilded with cash that's bought from MQ
Exactly. She is taking the piss to use as fodder for a thesis.
Her PhD is in Cultural Studies, PhD (2017)
Opinions are fine but let's stick to the facts yeah? The abstract of her thesis I believe was submitted for her Cultural Studies PhD.
The subject of the thesis was about gender bias in breaking from the quick skim I did, nothing to do with a "Phd in breaking" or even anything dance for that matter.
She doesn't have a PhD in breaking. There is no PhD in breaking. She has a PhD in cultural studies. Breaking made up part of the topic for her cultural studies thesis..
I.e.
My mother in law is doing her PhD in English Lit. Her thesis is on something to do with professional choirs (sorry MIL i tried to pay attention).
When she gets her PhD she will not have a PhD in choir. She will have a PhD in English Lit.
IDK why even news outlets are saying she has a PhD in breaking.. it makes so little sense..
"IDK why even news outlets are saying she has a PhD in breaking.. it makes so little sense."
Last 5 years or so the quality of journalism has degraded incredibly. Things that are simply not factual and spelling and grammar mistakes in articles my kids wouldn't make.
Seems to be if it's written on social media it must be true?
Or they're using ChatGPT to write an article for them and it's scraping incorrect information?
Mind you we don't pay for news anymore really (who stilll gets a paper paper or even a digital one, who still watches FTA news?), so maybe there's no more peanuts to pay the monkeys sadly.
@Ramrunner: Hah.. true.. I guess I'm stuck in the old mindset of journalists going to uni, so thought they'd at least know the difference..
She earnt zero points combined total from 3 battles.
Or she did and did it on purpose as a ‘F*** you’ to someone.
Getting zero on anything is a skill.Her commutative score over 3 battles was zero points.
What's with all these names….from now on you can call me "Tbone".
We already have a @Tbone
But you can be Koko the monkey.
I feel like her performance was the one time armchair experts probably have justifiably been able to make an accurate judgement on an athlete’s skill in a sport they have never participated in or know anything about.
I’m sure she probably is a very good break dancer, but that routine didn’t display it.
The real question is, who supported her and told her that was a good routine?
Was almost like a dare/joke gone too far.I’m sure she probably is a very good break dancer, but that routine didn’t display it.
Of the few videos that have come to light of her dancing, there isn't a single one that would rank as high as "good".
After hearing and reading more about it, the situation seems to make more sense.
I feel like @Meatyone summed it up nicely below too.
The music is random and the competitors don't know what music they'll get on the day. So everything is improvised.
She can’t do a windmill.
Ok, I've really wanted to weigh in on this one at some point as someone who was, and still is, heavily into the scene both here and overseas (i.e. 25 years in the scene). The first thing that frustrates me the most, especially from her as a supposed 'expert', is it is NOT called breakDANCING. It is called Breaking. That is it. Anyone in the culture knows this. She acts as a gatekeeper of the culture and doesn't even understand the vocab of the culture itself. The event itself is also called Breaking, not breakdancing. As an academic that has studied it for years, the fact that she keeps referring to herself as a 'breakdancer' really riles me.
Secondly, objectively and subjectively her performance was bad. Breaking is made up of several elements, the 2 most well known of which are top-rocking (footwork standing up) and power-moves (think big moves like flares, etc). Her top-rocking was absolutely dreadful. She has no style. She has no rhythm, and she is so far off her timing it is ridiculous. Her power-moves were literally non-existent. They weren't bad. They didn't exist. Everything else she did was some interpretive dance garbage. Her husband and 'coach' is a joke in the scene, as is their crew.
I've been in cyphers with some of the best in this country, and overseas including BC One winners, and her being in the games was the absolute pinnacle of nepotism. Even in the qualifier itself she was the worst competitor of the lot. I know of at least a dozen B-Girls in this country that would ruin her without breaking a sweat, and the fact that she is a self-indulgent twat just rubs me the wrong way, especially when she turned it into a gender wars argument and male competitors wouldn't be criticised like she was.
Back to my first point though, her knowledge of the culture, and the elements of breaking are basic at best, and she got caught lacking on the world stage. J-Attack held his own, and was never going to beat the likes of Wizard, but he still actually ripped and wouldn't look out of place in a cypher. Ray Gun wouldn't be able to hold her own in a cypher with 10 year olds learning their first top rocks.Great insight.
I'm not an expert but it doesn't take one to realise it was a bad performance.
My question is, how/why she was chosen to represent Australia?
I do feel sorry for the Aussie girls who should have represented us.
Curious, did any of the
at least a dozen B-Girls in this country that would ruin her without breaking a sweat
participate in the qualification tournament in Sydney? If not why?
I get that she wasn't a great choice, but did they actually pass over better B-Girls to send Raygun to the Olympics? If so why (and how/who was responsible)?
It seems like Raygun is coping the blame but surely she didn't judge herself the winner, or determine who her competitors were?
One possible reason is that the "inaugural" championship was held by World DanceSport—whom up until 2023, never had anything to do with breaking/breakdancing. And all of a sudden, they're claiming to be the peak body for a scene that has had multiple smaller organisations, but no combined national peak body to speak of. So I guess that may have pissed off a fair few legitimate breakers from even wanting anything to do with this.
But that's just my very shallow, 2-min google research. I don't have a PhD in break dance or anything.
Yes that seems to be the popular theory. But if the 'legit' B-Girls didn't enter the qualifying tournament by choice (for whatever reason), then what was the alternative to sending Raygun? Sending one of the other girls that couldn't qualify wouldn't have had a different result.
@larndis: Did the legit dancers even know there was a qualifier?
We need a royal commission to find out where this went wrong. Feels like somebody misused some public funds somewhere for this to happen.
@811b11e8: A Royal Commission into this whole debacle definitely sounds like a most Australian thing to do in this scenario.
@811b11e8: Honestly, it sounds funny when you first read it. But if all of this is true, it is actual corruption. It needs to be investigated.
And, if one cannot see the irony of a middle-aged white woman using her privilege to buy a ticket to represent Australia in breaking…well, that says it all.
@Bobby Hill: It seems to me the problem is with including Breaking in the Olympics without it being an organised sport with a recognised international body. World DanceSport Federation saw an opportunity and were granted responsibility for overseeing the selection processes without any experience in or connection to Breaking. So the Breaking community shunned the Olympics.
If there is a misuse of power it is with the IOC/WDSF. Raygun et al just worked with the processes in place. Who would you have sent instead, who actually attended the qualifier?
@Bobby Hill: Aw man, that's the most hurtful thing I've read here. Middle aged in her thirties. Look, I'm a couple of decades older than her. Don't do this to me.
then what was the alternative to sending Raygun?
Sending nobody would have been the better alternative.
Australia is an absolute Olympic sporting powerhouse. We don't need to send sub-standard participants to make a mockery of the Olympics and the country. There's no 'wow they really tried despite everything stacked against them' kudos to be recognised like the Jamaican bobsled team.
@rumblytangara: Agree they definitely could have sent no-one. I wonder how often countries do turn down sending competitors? I still don't think Raygun is responsible for the bad decisions of others, and I don't think she meant to make a mockery of breaking or the Olympics, but certainly in hindsight it's not looking like sending her was a good choice.
I can't speak to this but I know a very similar thing happened in the parkour world. The International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) somehow bought/won the rights to parkour, and started holding parkour competitions. They had no clue about the culture, and no real athletes wanted to participate.
You had a farcical situation where gymnasts would enter these comps, basically doing gymnastics on a "street" course, basically doing very little that resembles parkour.
This was a few years ago and the situation seems different now, as I just googled and top parkour athletes like Elis Torholl are now competing in (and winning) FIG competitions.
This seems very similar to what I've read about this whole Raygun situation.
@Lurk Hartog: Well good that they seem to have worked it out for parkour! Maybe there is still hope for breaking, if it ever gets another shot at the Olympics.
I read on socials that apparently IOC picked only one "breaking" organisation of just 20 members (she & her husband are in it) of which 15 members entered the competition. No other competitors were allowed. From there, you have this "winner" selected. So it wasn't a nation wide search for top breakers.
As an academic that has studied it for years,
Studying Breaking is a job for an Academic?
Give me a break.
That's literally her job. Tax-payer dollars hard at work.
Why would the taxpayer be paying her?
doubt it remember Corey Worthington? larrikin behaviour isnt really celebrated male or female, especially at something which the nation prides itself over like the olympics.
it's celebrated only if you make an effort, not take yourself too seriously, and not display a sense of entitlement and have humility. so not many boxes are ticked hence the backlash.
The first thing that frustrates me the most, especially from her as a supposed 'expert', is it is NOT called breakDANCING. It is called Breaking.
I used to do a bit of breakdancing/breaking and there were plenty of people in Victoria at least who referred to it as both breakdancing and breaking. Wickid Force were referred to as breakdancers back in the day and they probably called themselves that too at some point. Have things changed and does it really matter what it's called? Because people are still moving their bodies to the rhythm of music at the end of the day and isn't that still "dancing"? I don't see why it can't be called breakdancing and breaking, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal if people refer to it as breakdancing IMO.
Breaking is made up of several elements, the 2 most well known of which are top-rocking (footwork standing up) and power-moves (think big moves like flares, etc).
The way the judges scored the competition seemed to be more about style and hitting the beats rather than straight-up powermoves. The commentators mentioned that competitors had to also have "concepts" (or something) in their rounds. Although the men's scoring seemed to be all over the place, Shigekix was destroying his opponents with powermoves (although he was hitting beats too) yet J Attack who is obviously more capable than Raygun still scored poorly against his opponents when he was easily busting out windmills, 1990s, elbow airflares, airchairs etc. I was really shocked he scored so poorly especially against the Ukrainian guy.
You didn't mention downrock but Raygun's was freaking weird, she didn't seem to bust out a single six step and she did so many weird things like joining her hands together so she was like an eel, sliding around like she was Homer Simpson etc. Whatever she was doing it definitely was not breaking or breakdancing and it totally makes sense that she got to the Olympics through nepotism rather than actual merit. I saw clips of her on YouTube battle other people who had more style and could actually do powermoves, it was evident that Raygun can't even windmill lol. It seems the closest thing to a powermove she could achieve was that weird double-elbow two-leg swipe lol. Really sad that she was the one who competed for us when there definitely would be more capable b-girls around. People in this country fkn love nepotism.
I watched the J-Attack vs “Wizard” match .
Honestly I thought J-Attac’s routine was much better ,
maybe I’m old now and more traditional about breaking
and what I understand it to be ,
but the wiz was too subtle for me inside a baggy track suit ,
all rep and no substance and no power moves that I could see .
Go watch the heat again and see if you agree .
J-Attac for the Win .And Also
I think the battle format was the letdown.
Look at the skateboarding ,
you had a go then cheered on the next competitor ..
The dance fight is beyond cringe for the athletic type audience .But there are a few other “sports” that really should dropped from the Olympic’s , like syncro swimming , hand ball , equestrian , golf ,
but not the triple jump ,
I was good at that .Dude are you writing
a haiku?You could say he is
Writing a haiku of sorts
At least that needs skills
You seem to have fallen into the trap of attributing what others have reported, i.e. using the term breakdancing, to her. To the best of my knowledge, she uses the term breaking, or has since perhaps as early as 2016. When did breaking overtake breakdancing as the preferred term?
You can have a look at how she refers to it at what time here - https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/rachael-gunn/public…
Breaking sounds cooler when someone asks what you’ve been up to .
Or
It could have something to do with the titles of the movies in the 80’s that pushed along breakdancing / breaking into a thing .
And then there was MJ with the Moonwalk .
There has always been the outlier performances from people in the breakdancing sphere ,
People love to dance , whether they’re good or not .
I can attest to that .It was always called Breaking. Old heads going back as far as the Bronx era would never be caught dead calling it Breakdancing because that's not what it was called. The 4 pillars of Hip Hop are Breaking, DJing (more specifically Turntabling), Graffiti, and Rap. Breakdancing was a 90s term given to a 70s style. Breaking is after all done to the literal break in a song. Breakdance is what the media called it, you've got it backwards. Breaking or B-Boying was always the preferred term in culture, never breakdance.
Ok , but it is dancing to music , and there are movies that popularised breaking called breakdance that came out in the 80’s so ..
The songs at the time refer to it in both terms ,
Listen to the music .
Not having a shot but McQ call it breakdancing.
https://figshare.mq.edu.au/articles/thesis/Deterritorializin…
Your not helping me with that reference.
Thank you for this. Her inclusion in the Olympic team just screams nepotism. It just kind of tone deaf and gross when wealthy, privileged people appropriate a form of expression and art that has roots in marginalised communities (at least in the US) and then become self-proclaimed "experts" in the culture. Hope this experience humbles and educates her, rather than allowing her and her apologists to strawman sexism and deflect the criticism.
Fugging thank you. I'm so sick of the "but she tried her best and that's touching" "It's art and she expressed herself that's all that matters". What an international embarrassment at an international event for elite athletes. Actually, it's more than an embarrassment, it's outright disrespectful to all athletes around the world.
From what I'm reading, Raygun and her friends run the AusBreak competition which was the qualifier for the Olympics. AusBreak is a small Sydney based Breaking competition that sees 10 or so people show up regularly.
Since their members have links with DanceSport Australia (an entity that runs Ballroom dancing competitions) they became the officially recognised Breaking body by the IOC.
So essentially her small group of friends selected her for the Olympics rather than the position being earned on merit (i.e. by being one of if not the best female break dancer in the country).
Thanks I was looking for this. Seemed weird to me since every sport usually requires qualifying and some board or competition for the selection process to work out who goes and who doesn't. So I wondered whether that somehow didn't happen in this case, or something odd went on in the selection process.
Ah nepotism, the cornerstone of our nation. I'm not surprised if she has her own little group that operates outside of other governing bodies, it makes total sense that's how she'd get to the Olympics rather than all the other capable b-girls out there. I wonder then how J Attack qualified?
If you go to the AusBreak website you can see that J Attack is part of her dance troupe.
Ah nepotism, the cornerstone of our nation.
Technically, cronyism. But yeah, point stands.
I also heard this, but have not been able to find any evidence of it. Only thing I can find is this page debunking it:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/fact-check-are-raygu…
Do you have any evidence for this claim?
Yes. Her Facebook and AusBreak facebook pages.
As more information comes out it seems to be more a case of the qualifier in Sydney was just too short notice and/or too far/expensive for most B-girls to travel. They may also not have realised it was happening due to lack of advertising.
Resulting in a lowly participated tournament of which Raygun was deemed the winner.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/aug/…
Unfortunately Ozb doesn't let me edit to update my original comment.
There was no "preserve human dignity" or "striving for excellence" in that routine.