Where do you stand on the Raygun break dancing fanfare?
For or against her inclusion in the games and performance.
Raygun - Legend or Letdown?
mr fox on 12/08/2024 - 11:33
Poll Options
- 205Fantastic, what a legend
- 1013Self indulgent, disappointing
Comments
maybe because her skill level or routine is not Olympic level. It was more like something anyone who doesn't mind embarrassment can do. To make it worse, it is displayed all over the world for everyone to see.
Seriously, Olympics is not your local dance competition. The bar was set too low.Judging dance and art is always subjective. How can you even judge it objectively.
Just so happens that most people including the judges think it was bad.I am surprised she won all those. I guess in Australia the bar for break dancing is set really low.
@sumyungguy: Of course there is a big difference. You certainly would not send low level athletes to compete against world class level athletes and award them a consolation prize just for trying.
That is not the venue for Olympics. Again, let's set the bar higher for Olympics.
@sumyungguy: A point system that is based on technique, musicality, stage presence and creativity and she failed to get a single point? I think the say that this is not different as the person who came last in the 100m sprint is wrong
@sumyungguy: Jayden lost to a former Olympic gold medallist and multiple time world champion in the first round, Yazdani would go on to win silver. In the repecharge Jayden lost against the current European champion, and that guy would go on to win bronze.
To qualify for these Olympics, both Jayden and Georgii won the African and Oceania qualifying tournament.
On paper it seems our wrestlers didn't do well, but you've no idea how hard it was for these guys to even get to the Olympics.
Don't talk about things you have no knowledge of.@sumyungguy: And you're a troll…
So Jayden didn't get any points on two elite champions - and Yazdani is practically a living legend. There's no shame in his performance at all.
2 current world champions, Sasaki and Musukaev, didn't even medal in this Olympics. That's how tough the competition is.
Jayden can hold his head high and all those who know the sport are proud of him.
For those who don't know:
To qualify for Paris he beat the best wrestlers from Africa - athletes from strong wrestling nations like Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Nigeria.
He won a Commonwealth Games bronze medal on a badly torn knee.
Normally I don't respond to trolls, but I want others to know how hard this sport is. No Aussie wrestlers were able to qualify for the Tokyo games btw.
It'd be interesting to see how you'd go on a wrestling mat here, let alone against the best in the world.
And you're comment about how men and women should be… geez it's 2024.
@Brakus: I'm not disagreeing with you, I was reninded of and want to give a shout-out to Eric Moussambani aka Eric the Eel from Equatorial Guinea at the 2000 Olympic Games. "…who had never seen an Olympic-sized (50 meters) swimming pool before, swam his heat of the 100 m freestyle on 19 September in a time of 1:52.72.This was the slowest time in Olympic history by far, and Moussambani had trouble finishing the race, but he won his heat after both his competitors were disqualified due to false starts. Although Moussambani's time was still too slow to advance to the next round, he set a new personal best and an Equatoguinean national record. He later became the coach of the national swimming squad of Equatorial Guinea." (Wikipedia)
@Brakus: So then is your issue with the IOC for giving Oceania a spot in the breakdancing, rather than with Raygun? Surely she's not to blame for getting selected?
@larndis: I think the issue is more about the routine she chose to compete at the world level.
Better yet, breaking shouldn't really be in the Olympics but more in Australia got talent type of competition since judging it is too subjectiveMeatyOne sums it up perfectly.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/reply/861180/15594574@Brakus: Thought the same myself, social media clipped her most cringe moments but she actually can breakdance she just needs someone else to make a routine for her.
@larndis: She has a Ph.D. in break dancing.
If anyone should have known that they were not at an Olympic level, it would be her.
It was the equivalent of someone entering the Marathon with a PhD in long-distance running, only they couldn't walk to the start line without needing a rest before the race.
The selection process or qualifiers were rubbish; I've seen better break dancing in my local high school or better dancing from drunken guests at the Hofbräuhaus Melbourne which isn't even a dancing venue.
Look at the 16-year-old boy we entered. At least he has some athletic ability.
@811b11e8: How is it the same as someone who couldn't walk to the start line of the race? She was there, she competed and she won?
Were there better B-Girls who entered but weren't selected? Or is the issue that no-one good entered?
@811b11e8: Her PhD is in gender studies relating to breakdancing:
Deterritorializing gender in Sydney's breakdancing scene: a B-girl's experience of B-boying
"I conceptualize the breaking body as not a 'body' constituted through regulations and assumptions, but as an assemblage open to new rhizomatic connections. Breaking is a space that embraces difference, whereby the rituals of the dance not only augment its capacity to deterritorialize the body, but also facilitate new possibilities for performativities beyond the confines of dominant modes of thought and normative gender construction"
https://figshare.mq.edu.au/articles/thesis/Deterritorializin…
She has a Ph.D. in break dancing.
Her PhD is in in cultural studies, when graduated in 2017.
Her PhD thesis focused on "the intersection of gender and Sydney's breaking culture".
@Brakus: exactly, so why is it even a sport? Events like these IMO devalue the medalists/contenders for other events given how heavily subjective preference plays in rankings (i personally think her performance was embarassing).
Surprises me why cricket isn't included in it (T20 perhaps) but this is. Would hopefully let one of the Subcontinental countries the chance at a gold haha@JDMcarfan: I agree. Art forms are very subjective and to objectively evaluate it on a uniform scale is very hard. Interpretation of art very subjective.
There has to be a clear differentiation between sport and art . I feel like we do no justice to the artist when the judges think that there is a set way to perform. Art cannot be judged like that.At the same time, I can see why people were upset about raygun and her performance. Because she is an artist whose performance was viewed as a sports performance.
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAH What mentality you have for thinking what she did was at least OKAY
it's like making a mockery of herself to standout. I don't think this should be celebrated and encouraged or we will see Olympics become like a circus.
@Brakus: Ahh the good old slippery slope argument. If one person does it, then everyone's all of a sudden going to start doing it. The Olympics is going to fall apart because we supported this one person to do something different. Think of the children etc. etc.
I've read her views and other's, and her actions made a lot of sense. If you have no chance of hell in winning, why not have a bit of fun especially in a sport that is quite subjective and can be artistic?
If anything the Olympics would be crap if things like this didn't happen.
If you have no chance of hell in winning, why not have a bit of fun especially in a sport that is quite subjective and can be artistic?
Because there are many more breakers more talented than her who could have gone. Artistic doesn't mean anything goes. Skill counts too.
Imagine we just sent Shazza and Bazza instead of Molly O'Callaghan and Arianne Titmus. Why not have a bit of fun in the pool?
@soan papdi: Sorry but this is a hollow arguement. Seen so many people have a go at the girls skateboarding claiming their own kids or kids down the skate park can skate better. If they could then why arent they there representing Oz? Probably because they arent that good and more importantly they didnt go through the hard yards of qualifying. From my understadnding athletes have to attend meets and events to qualify for the Olympics. Those who are there have made the financial, physical and time sacrifice to get to represent their country. Anyone else who claims they can do better are kidding themselves until they go through the same process.
Anyone else who claims they can do better are kidding themselves until they go through the same process.
No one in this forum is claiming they can do better than her. I am saying there are better breakers than her out there, guaranteed. It's okay to be last but not with the skill she displayed. The Olympics is not a place for "aussie larrikinism", it's a serious competition. Raygun was apparently the "best" of 15 participants who participated in the qualifying tournament. FIFTEEN. That's all this country has to offer? Then maybe we should not have sent anyone at all.
https://www.smh.com.au/culture/celebrity/the-inside-story-of…
@soan papdi: "No one in this forum is claiming they can do better than her."
"It was more like something anyone who doesn't mind embarrassment can do." - Brakus
@Lurk Hartog: I can't speak for what @brakus meant but you saying we're all shameless? I draw the line at churning credit cards and tapping my card 5 times at Coles. I'd never be able to do a family dance in front of a crowd.
If she just did a standard break-dancing routine she'd have …
Surely you understand that she was not capable of any kind of 'standard' routine.
you are deceptively comparing her performance with those who competed properly but placed last. A better comparison will be if Eric the Eel dog paddled in the Olympics bec he knew he couldn't win and wanted to make headlines.
Imagine if this becomes the mindset of athletes in the next Olympics.
Simply participating may work for Bhutan and Equatorial Guinea but not for Olympic powerhouse Australia. Her performance was embarrassing.
It was more like Eric the eel drowned in the pool.
No, Eric the eel doesn't deserve our encouragement for "having a go".
The Olympics is not about "having a go" it's about the best of the best competing to find out who is the strongest, fastest, most skilled in given events. If you can't even swim, you should NOT be able to enter an Olympic swimming event.
This isn't your local little athletics/soccer club/feel good sporting event at the park with "every ones a winner" it's the bloody Olympics and shit like Eric the eel cheapens then entire premise that it was originally founded on.
Australia is not Equatorial Guinea. We have wealth and training programs fuelled by oodles of taxpayers money. No Australian athlete is a hard luck story for the world to golf clap.
-Eric the eel was a charity case from the IOC
-World athletics qualification standard through points is already a heavily criticised method. But ultimately she qualified through bonus points awarded to high level national comps for winning with little competition. She's from a country with a small population, with few competitors but there was an accessible and reasonable path of qualification. She's much faster than an armature.Both of these charity cases don't compare to the equivalent of your favorite crazy aunt who's fun but your parents understand her life is a mess and really hope you don't stray down her wild path of life. She wasn't a charity case, her path of qualification was through similarly minded performing arts whackos who think pulling a kangaroo pose earns top points for creativity/originality and turned up to a performing arts competition with moves comparable to that of fish continuing to flop around after death.
It was more like something anyone who doesn't mind embarrassment can do.
It looked just like a kid chucking a tanty
Why was this even an event?
Have you ever watched a first round of an event at the olympics? It's not about the best of the best getting there, it's representatives from all countries. Which means you occasionally get a Jamaican bobsled team or Eric Moussambani at the Sydney olympics. It's all part of it, the world is represented.
Raygun was the best Australia has and got a slot. It just turns out we suck at the sport.
to be completely fair, this is what ozzyman thinks of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbVb6y4HHT8
Why is she being treated differently to every other athlete who qualified for the games but didn't place highly?
Citius - Altius - Fortius
Her performance was very fortis. Cringeus fortis.
She was quite obviously not the best we had in the country. Could have grabbed a random kid from a Westfield somewhere and they'd have done better.
Yep, at least someone saying "Can I check you bag?" with an air of bored resignation would be more authentic.
Because she not only performed disastrously, but also made a mockery of the discipline, her fellow competitors, her country, and the entire Olympic organization. She overshadowed the best Olympics Australia has ever had with her display of incompetence and buffoonery.
The Olympics is a joke anyway. It's taken way too seriously because it's a dick measuring contest for the countries who care enough. I think she seems like a dolt but I dont mind because of my opinion on the olympics haha.
I could not disagree with your comment more. All countries care enough otherwise they would not send anyone to the olympics lol The only countries who are absent are the ones barred from participating, everyone else sends their athletes, spend the money to do so and if any medal come through, it's a big deal in that country. And the smaller the country, the bigger the deal.
Olympics are the absolute pinnacle of sports. If you think that's dick measuring, then for you every sports in the world is dick measuring.You just obviously dislike sports and that's fair enough but you are part of a tiny small minority.
@liongalahad: Nah. Competitions like FIFA, NBA, tour de france are the pinnacle. Olympics makes even good sports boring to watch. And the others are already boring. People think Raygun trashed break dancing.. watch the real break dancing. Its crap. I guess we definitely disagree. Yes all countries send people, not all countries spend the same amount of money.
@gakko: you are telling me that the the Athletics, volleyball, swimming, Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps etc , it's all bs and boring? and NBA is the pinnacle? lol I dont even know how to describe your view of sports..maybe bogan..Sorry to say but you are the equivalent of someone who calls himself a cinephile and their favourite movies are the Marvel universe lol
@liongalahad: That is indeed what I am telling you. The Olympics is boring, and for boring people. Not sure what you are on about re. cinephiles and such but go for it.
@gakko: Im just saying you're an idiot, that's all. The fact you don't get what I'm saying just reinforces it.
You should look up how she actually made it to the Olympics in the first place.
Yes, very interesting stories coming out.
My difference in opinion isnt her fault per se. She's clearly not as good as any other competitor, let alone i dont think shes even the best in Australia or her own state. Raygun has even said in interviews that she knew she couldnt compete cos everyone else was young and had power moves. The representative for the olympic committee in Australia has even gone out and said she was the best female breakdancer in Australia and that all her hate is misogynistic. So a few things to break down. Shes definitely not the best in Australia, how she won her events, I have no clue. However her husband is her coach and was a part of the judging panel for the Olympic selection. So im a touch suspicious there. Is this issue I also dont agree that the issue is misogynistic. I dont think the issue was ever that she was a female, it was that she did really awful.
To me the difference is, if she came last but performed well and was just straight up, outclassed. I can understand. But having a pretty poor routine compared to everyone else and scoring flat 0's across the board, thats a bit embarassing. I dont have any hate towards her really, its more so the people who selected her and went "yep thats a great routine, youre amazing, now go represent our country"
I think I was more annoyed at this issue because I have female friends who have been breakdancing their entire lives and have created studios and classes to teach it. Now they didnt compete in the olympic competitions, but seeing Raygun being called the best. No chance.
However her husband is her coach and was a part of the judging panel for the Olympic selection.
Not trying to defend her selection as she was terrible, but I've seen this thrown around a lot and it's not true. I googled the Oceania World Championship event that she won Olympic selection by winning, and her husband was not one of the judges.
https://www.worlddancesport.org/Competitions/Officials/Ocean…
100% agree.
Everyone is entitled to opinion in fact I love reading comment but can we please stick to the facts? @EdenKai please prove the garbage you're spouting about her husband being part of the judging panel (he IS her coach not denying that). I'm happy to read factual articles.
As for stuff you're making up please stop it it's very immature and there's no respect for that.
@Ramrunner: Okay hold on, im absolutely happy to admit i was ill informed about the Olympic Judge panel, i can accept fault there, but I dont know what you mean about the other garbage.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/i-love-her-australias-ol…
The Australian Olympic chief likened her criticism to misogyny. Is there some misogyny? Sure, im more than willing to accept that there are people who hate her for just being a female, its unfortunate that there are billions of people on earth with too many varying opinions, but again, i dont think the main criticism is that shes female, its just that she didnt do particularly good. Hell I loved Ami Yuasa's performance, she was amazing.
@EdenKai: Never said anything about any of your other statements. Most of those are opinion and I make it very clear I enjoy reading what other people think.
"@EdenKai please prove the garbage you're spouting about her husband being part of the judging panel"
As I mentioned happy to read people's opinions, and factual statements but have no time for people repeating rubbish without research and fact checking. My statement was particularly about bringing her husband into the conversation as a judge - which is simply untrue.
I actually agreed with other parts of your comment. It was the "ill informed" part that annoyed me. Everything else is all good.
@Ramrunner: The garbage started from this guys post https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=8187105074661704&set=p.… It caught on that people thought her husband was a judge.
@emblurr: Thanks mate. I still can't find any articles from reputable sources regarding Jacques's statements either. Another keyboard warrior.
Ausbreaking has just broken their silence (pun intended)
https://7news.com.au/sport/olympics/ausbreaking-issues-state…
The competition she won and allowed her entry to the Olympics was judged by a panel of NINE international judges, a head judge and chairperson to see it was all above board.
As far as I'm concerned the discussions on fairness of her getting to the Olympics can now stop. I won't be weighing in any more it's in the article black and white written by reputable organisations and reporters.
Happy to keep reading comments about everything else but her getting there was legit and above board.
@Ramrunner: I thought this was a lot more telling in terms of context.
Someone posted this on the second page of this thread.
TLDR the selection pool was kept tiny at 15 people, she was in the prime position to be funnelled into it and only got involved in qualification activities in the past couple years once the Olympic sport had been announced. There was zero effort at broadening the net to include people with genuine talent, if anything they were excluded either by omission or by choice.
@rumblytangara: Yep I agree I especially think the article here:
https://www.hpnfooty.com/?p=33773
In that Reddit thread explains it perfectly and I enjoyed watching the "winning routine" to get her there.
Thanks for sharing that! It DOES sound like people are hating the player not hating the game though. She did everything she needed to do to get there through legitimate and recognised ways of doing so. We can't rag on her now about better B-girls because if THEY had competed in the qualifier and beaten her than THEY would have represented Australia. It really is that simple.
Good reddit thread and good analysis. Thanks again.
@Ramrunner: Thanks for sharing that! It DOES sound like people are hating the player not hating the game though.
The player was a key part of the organisation that controlled the game. That's one significant part of the problem.
Had she and the tiny organisation involved in selection been serious about putting the best athletes forward she would never have been selected. This embarrassment would never have happened, and truly skilled athletes would not have been excluded.
Instead, this was the equivalent of the 'old boys club' for women. Keep it small, keep it secret and under the table.
@rumblytangara: Not really the qualifier was an open event. Although I agree with you that selection should perhaps not have been based on that event (hence my hate the game quip), and PROBABLY really should have really been based on something a bit more world class like Red Bull BC One as an example, but the Red Bull BC One sits outside of the World Dancesport Federation. i.e. Not recognized as a body that can run qualifier events.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13733711/…
Unless for example someone like Scar was not allowed to compete or intentionally blocked from the comp (would be interesting to get her take on this actually) then it is up to others to compete if they want to represent Australia, no?
Wonder how well it was advertised? I mean we now all know about it because everything is under the microscope and it's all come out but I wonder if other B-girls actually knew about the qualifier? I can't seem to find anything in the media it keeps taking me back to the same articles but maybe your Googling skill are better than mine.
@Ramrunner: Seems like almost nobody even knew that breaking was going to to be in the Olympics until it happened. I don't imagine that it was well publicised.
But who knows?
"The representative for the olympic committee in Australia has even gone out and said she was the best female breakdancer in Australia and that all her hate is misogynistic. " That's a cheap shot. If she'd been a guy I'd bag him out too. Raygun looks like the result of knowing how to work the system and having the resources to do what you want. We're being told a load of lies.
We're being told a load of lies.
That sounds very conspiratorial - so please enlighten us with the (your) truth.
its amazing that certain news media thinks being a woman can just make you immune to any and all criticism at all times no matter what you do because you can cry about misogyny
Because they actually tried lols
The smirk on her face after losing and spending tax payers' money for no particular good reasons tells me there's little humility in this one. Others who qualified must have practiced day in day out and sacrificed part of their lives. Can't see the same with her but only the mockery.
💯 correct. She is a POS and needs to be held accountable.
Raygun = Eddie the Eagle of her event.
Don’t forget Eric the Eel
Eddie was at least the best the UK had to offer. Sure, there were no other ski jumpers in the UK, but that's half the appeal - he did the best he could and didn't block anyone else from his country from competing.
no comparison. Eddie the Eagle, Eric the Eel, they were truly the best their country had to offer at the time. They put all the effort and got last.
Raygun was a disgrace
She surely can't be the best we have. A very sad selection
I heard she actually won breakdancing events over her 12 year career. The problem is, those judges somehow took her absurdly uncreative moves to be 'art', and over the years she progressed through the thanks, when she should have been thrown out after her first year of 'performing'. It's such a shame because Australia had such a good performance at these Olympics, but this is all the country will be remembered for.
Well as stupid as that performance was by that gender studies professor who ‘woked’ her way into the Olympics… I don’t think coming 4th in the Olympics overall for a country of 26M is a bad result. Hoping that’s more what we’ll be remembered for.
Those judges were affectionately known to Raygun as Mum, Dad and Hubby.
Who hurt you dude?
While the whole performance was ridiculous and embarrassing, it'll no doubt pass into the Australian meme hall of fame though.
it'll no doubt pass into the Australian meme hall of fame
Looking at Reddit the last few days it's an international meme of the moment, it may even become the meme of the Olympics.
It may have been indistinguishable from a joke routine but ok, so what? It did represent a unique Australian 'bogan' style and it is ok if it didn't go down well with the mainstream. In artistic events - which breaking definitely is - people having different takes and routines is to be expected. Good on her. She may not have represented 'prim perfect super athlete Australia', but in her way she did represent a lot of Australians. She made it to the olympics and should be proud, I can imagine she genuinely did have an infectious attitude and positive presence amongst the other athletes and that is also of worth.
Australia may have had more accomplished breakers that could have performed better but they didn't go, perhaps because not all of the breaking community believes the sport should be in the olympics.. but she is not to blame for that.
There are also plenty of athletes at the games, especially from less advanced sporting nations that place well behind their rival competitors from other nations and it is ok, it all adds to the occasion. Raygun added to the occasion and the event.
And to be honest most of the rounds, from most of the entries didn't really get to a higher standard than I could see at a local disco in my own city or a local meetup. It is a sport that has not yet truly professionalised with significant amateur talent out there in the community
so what?
So… don't disrespect other participants who are not there to joke around?
She wasn't the equivalent of someone coming last in a race. She was the equivalent of a runner who not only comes last, but deliberately runs in a comical style because by their own admission, never expected to win.
Good on her for going out there and performing!!
The original values of Olympism as expressed in the Olympic Charter were to “encourage effort”, “preserve human dignity” and “develop harmony”. Over time, they have evolved and are now expressed in more contemporary terms as: Striving for excellence and encouraging people to be the best they can be.
No where in the values is "Win".
Also, she qualified for the olympics by going through the qualification tournament fair and square.
"In October, 2023, the inaugural WDSF Oceania Breaking Championships were held at Sydney Town Hall. Thirty-seven B-Boys and 15 B-Girls from the Pacific region competed for the incredible prize of a chance to be an Olympian. The event was broadcast around the world live on the Olympic Channel.
Sixteen-year-old Jeff “J-Attack” Dunne won the B-Boys’ competition, while Raygun took gold in the B-Girls’ category.
After missing out on top spot, three B-Boys and three B-Girls turned to the Olympic Qualifier Series as an alternate route to Paris.
Australia’s female representitives - “G-Clef”, “Hannah” and “Holy Molly” - finished 37th, 38th and 40th in a 40-woman field."
She will now forever be in the same category as Eric the Eel.
If anything, it raises questions about the qualification process. Should we be sending athletes who are the best in the country (as per whatever criteria that sport has); but are nowhere near world class?
you must be someone who values the "participant" medal more than the gold one.
You must be someone who's never invited to parties
ok, I am going into the corner and start to cry now. Haha.
The point of the Olympics is to gather the best athletes in the world, and the best athletes from each country, not someone's drunk aunt on a Friday night at the RSL.
Hahaha brilliant way to put it
Yeah I pointed this out earlier, but the whole process is entirely flawed with selection in the first place.
There's plenty of other sports where Australia is allowed to be represented but it's embarrassing as our athletes are just nowhere near Olympic level. Good on them for trying, but if Australians are scoring close to 0 and the best are close to 200 then it's not great.
If you really wanted the best athletes in the world, you wouldn't have quotas on countries - you'd just select the top 20 or whatever and send them in.
Might as well have some fun with it/do some social media promotion for yourself if you know you're not the best.
sumyungguy on 12/08/2024 - 11:40 Comment score below threshold.
