Where do you stand on the Raygun break dancing fanfare?
For or against her inclusion in the games and performance.
Raygun - Legend or Letdown?
mr fox on 12/08/2024 - 11:33
Poll Options
- 83Fantastic, what a legend
- 346Self indulgent, disappointing
Comments
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maybe because her skill level or routine is not Olympic level. It was more like something anyone who doesn't mind embarrassment can do. To make it worse, it is displayed all over the world for everyone to see.
Seriously, Olympics is not your local dance competition. The bar was set too low.
Do we know that objectively? She is Australia's top-ranking breakdancer. In October 2023 she took gold in the B-Girls’ category of the WDSF Oceania Breaking Championships. Three other B-Girls turned to the Olympic Qualifier Series as an alternate route to Paris. Australia’s representatives: “G-Clef”, “Hannah” and “Holy Molly” - finished 37th, 38th and 40th in a 40-woman field.
Judging dance and art is always subjective. How can you even judge it objectively.
Just so happens that most people including the judges think it was bad.I am surprised she won all those. I guess in Australia the bar for break dancing is set really low.
@sumyungguy: Of course there is a big difference. You certainly would not send low level athletes to compete against world class level athletes and award them a consolation prize just for trying.
That is not the venue for Olympics. Again, let's set the bar higher for Olympics.
@Brakus: Not different to being selected by your country having met the qualification requirements but being beaten on the day of competition
@sumyungguy: A point system that is based on technique, musicality, stage presence and creativity and she failed to get a single point? I think the say that this is not different as the person who came last in the 100m sprint is wrong
@Brakus: So then is your issue with the IOC for giving Oceania a spot in the breakdancing, rather than with Raygun? Surely she's not to blame for getting selected?
@larndis: I think the issue is more about the routine she chose to compete at the world level.
Better yet, breaking shouldn't really be in the Olympics but more in Australia got talent type of competition since judging it is too subjectiveMeatyOne sums it up perfectly.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/reply/861180/15594574@Brakus: Thought the same myself, social media clipped her most cringe moments but she actually can breakdance she just needs someone else to make a routine for her.
@larndis: She has a Ph.D. in break dancing.
If anyone should have known that they were not at an Olympic level, it would be her.
It was the equivalent of someone entering the Marathon with a PhD in long-distance running, only they couldn't walk to the start line without needing a rest before the race.
The selection process or qualifiers were rubbish; I've seen better break dancing in my local high school or better dancing from drunken guests at the Hofbräuhaus Melbourne which isn't even a dancing venue.
Look at the 16-year-old boy we entered. At least he has some athletic ability.
@811b11e8: How is it the same as someone who couldn't walk to the start line of the race? She was there, she competed and she won?
Were there better B-Girls who entered but weren't selected? Or is the issue that no-one good entered?
@Brakus: exactly, so why is it even a sport? Events like these IMO devalue the medalists/contenders for other events given how heavily subjective preference plays in rankings (i personally think her performance was embarassing).
Surprises me why cricket isn't included in it (T20 perhaps) but this is. Would hopefully let one of the Subcontinental countries the chance at a gold haha
Realistically, the Olympics have quotas per country, and the best of the best are not always represented.
There are a few sports I can think of where the Australian representative is simply not at Olympic level. They're the best in Australia and so they qualified, but they're maybe top 200 or worse in the world. Watching the Australian compete is actually embarrassing and I feel bad for them as they are so low-ranked compared to the other qualifiers. So I think sumyunnguy's point still stands.
If she just did a standard break-dancing routine she'd have placed poorly like the rest, and noone would have cared. The way she's done it at worst she's done an incredible marketing campaign for herself and garnered a lot of views that most other athletes won't get. So it's actually pretty brilliant.
it's like making a mockery of herself to standout. I don't think this should be celebrated and encouraged or we will see Olympics become like a circus.
@Brakus: Ahh the good old slippery slope argument. If one person does it, then everyone's all of a sudden going to start doing it. The Olympics is going to fall apart because we supported this one person to do something different. Think of the children etc. etc.
I've read her views and other's, and her actions made a lot of sense. If you have no chance of hell in winning, why not have a bit of fun especially in a sport that is quite subjective and can be artistic?
If anything the Olympics would be crap if things like this didn't happen.
If you have no chance of hell in winning, why not have a bit of fun especially in a sport that is quite subjective and can be artistic?
Because there are many more breakers more talented than her who could have gone. Artistic doesn't mean anything goes. Skill counts too.
Imagine we just sent Shazza and Bazza instead of Molly O'Callaghan and Arianne Titmus. Why not have a bit of fun in the pool?
@soan papdi: Sorry but this is a hollow arguement. Seen so many people have a go at the girls skateboarding claiming their own kids or kids down the skate park can skate better. If they could then why arent they there representing Oz? Probably because they arent that good and more importantly they didnt go through the hard yards of qualifying. From my understadnding athletes have to attend meets and events to qualify for the Olympics. Those who are there have made the financial, physical and time sacrifice to get to represent their country. Anyone else who claims they can do better are kidding themselves until they go through the same process.
Anyone else who claims they can do better are kidding themselves until they go through the same process.
No one in this forum is claiming they can do better than her. I am saying there are better breakers than her out there, guaranteed. It's okay to be last but not with the skill she displayed. The Olympics is not a place for "aussie larrikinism", it's a serious competition. Raygun was apparently the "best" of 15 participants who participated in the qualifying tournament. FIFTEEN. That's all this country has to offer? Then maybe we should not have sent anyone at all.
https://www.smh.com.au/culture/celebrity/the-inside-story-of…
- so the athlete from Bhutan that ran the marathon in last place didn't deserve the cheer and encouragement of other athletes and spectators
- the African athlete that bravely swam at our 2000 Olympics (Eric the eel) doesn't deserve our praise of his courage and spirit of sport of having a go..
you are deceptively comparing her performance with those who competed properly but placed last. A better comparison will be if Eric the Eel dog paddled in the Olympics bec he knew he couldn't win and wanted to make headlines.
Imagine if this becomes the mindset of athletes in the next Olympics.
Simply participating may work for Bhutan and Equatorial Guinea but not for Olympic powerhouse Australia. Her performance was embarrassing.
It was more like Eric the eel drowned in the pool.
It was more like something anyone who doesn't mind embarrassment can do.
It looked just like a kid chucking a tanty
Why was this even an event?
Have you ever watched a first round of an event at the olympics? It's not about the best of the best getting there, it's representatives from all countries. Which means you occasionally get a Jamaican bobsled team or Eric Moussambani at the Sydney olympics. It's all part of it, the world is represented.
Raygun was the best Australia has and got a slot. It just turns out we suck at the sport.
to be completely fair, this is what ozzyman thinks of it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbVb6y4HHT8
Why is she being treated differently to every other athlete who qualified for the games but didn't place highly?
Citius - Altius - Fortius
Her performance was very fortis. Cringeus fortis.
She was quite obviously not the best we had in the country. Could have grabbed a random kid from a Westfield somewhere and they'd have done better.
Yep, at least someone saying "Can I check you bag?" with an air of bored resignation would be more authentic.
Because she not only performed disastrously, but also made a mockery of the discipline, her fellow competitors, her country, and the entire Olympic organization. She overshadowed the best Olympics Australia has ever had with her display of incompetence and buffoonery.
You should look up how she actually made it to the Olympics in the first place.
Raygun = Eddie the Eagle of her event.
Don’t forget Eric the Eel
Eddie was at least the best the UK had to offer. Sure, there were no other ski jumpers in the UK, but that's half the appeal - he did the best he could and didn't block anyone else from his country from competing.
no comparison. Eddie the Eagle, Eric the Eel, they were truly the best their country had to offer at the time. They put all the effort and got last.
Raygun was a disgrace
She surely can't be the best we have. A very sad selection
While the whole performance was ridiculous and embarrassing, it'll no doubt pass into the Australian meme hall of fame though.
it'll no doubt pass into the Australian meme hall of fame
Looking at Reddit the last few days it's an international meme of the moment, it may even become the meme of the Olympics.
It may have been indistinguishable from a joke routine but ok, so what? It did represent a unique Australian 'bogan' style and it is ok if it didn't go down well with the mainstream. In artistic events - which breaking definitely is - people having different takes and routines is to be expected. Good on her. She may not have represented 'prim perfect super athlete Australia', but in her way she did represent a lot of Australians. She made it to the olympics and should be proud, I can imagine she genuinely did have an infectious attitude and positive presence amongst the other athletes and that is also of worth.
Australia may have had more accomplished breakers that could have performed better but they didn't go, perhaps because not all of the breaking community believes the sport should be in the olympics.. but she is not to blame for that.
There are also plenty of athletes at the games, especially from less advanced sporting nations that place well behind their rival competitors from other nations and it is ok, it all adds to the occasion. Raygun added to the occasion and the event.
And to be honest most of the rounds, from most of the entries didn't really get to a higher standard than I could see at a local disco in my own city or a local meetup. It is a sport that has not yet truly professionalised with significant amateur talent out there in the community
Good on her for going out there and performing!!
The original values of Olympism as expressed in the Olympic Charter were to “encourage effort”, “preserve human dignity” and “develop harmony”. Over time, they have evolved and are now expressed in more contemporary terms as: Striving for excellence and encouraging people to be the best they can be.
No where in the values is "Win".
Also, she qualified for the olympics by going through the qualification tournament fair and square.
"In October, 2023, the inaugural WDSF Oceania Breaking Championships were held at Sydney Town Hall. Thirty-seven B-Boys and 15 B-Girls from the Pacific region competed for the incredible prize of a chance to be an Olympian. The event was broadcast around the world live on the Olympic Channel.
Sixteen-year-old Jeff “J-Attack” Dunne won the B-Boys’ competition, while Raygun took gold in the B-Girls’ category.
After missing out on top spot, three B-Boys and three B-Girls turned to the Olympic Qualifier Series as an alternate route to Paris.
Australia’s female representitives - “G-Clef”, “Hannah” and “Holy Molly” - finished 37th, 38th and 40th in a 40-woman field."
She will now forever be in the same category as Eric the Eel.
If anything, it raises questions about the qualification process. Should we be sending athletes who are the best in the country (as per whatever criteria that sport has); but are nowhere near world class?
you must be someone who values the "participant" medal more than the gold one.
The point of the Olympics is to gather the best athletes in the world, and the best athletes from each country, not someone's drunk aunt on a Friday night at the RSL.
Yeah I pointed this out earlier, but the whole process is entirely flawed with selection in the first place.
There's plenty of other sports where Australia is allowed to be represented but it's embarrassing as our athletes are just nowhere near Olympic level. Good on them for trying, but if Australians are scoring close to 0 and the best are close to 200 then it's not great.
If you really wanted the best athletes in the world, you wouldn't have quotas on countries - you'd just select the top 20 or whatever and send them in.
Might as well have some fun with it/do some social media promotion for yourself if you know you're not the best.
I would love to see her Oceania Championship routine
lol. she looked like my Roborock trying to get out of a tight space
Wow, that was dreadful. But i'm no professional so I can't really comment on why its bad.
Had to wash my eyes with the gold medal match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nrOQjNTXKgDid you hear she's changed her name??? Now she wants be know as Walter White… Breaking Bad… Badum tissh!
everything aside i can admire the enthusiasm / energy
Its Olympics. I'd expect better. Did you see how awesome other dancers (athletes) were. If you compare her dance with others, you will have the answer. Some of the moves were …….. She was seen struggling to improvise steps on the rhythm.
For those who are sayign its unique, yes I agree within Aus its good. great i must say, but on world stage?
She wasnt the only one to score lowly. There were 2-3 that scored zero points. I think she just got lost it the weeds and didnt know how to compete at the level of many of the other dancers.
When you smash two bottles of prosecco and want to have a boogie
Ill say this the 'sport' of breaking in general was a let down
Her performance was terrible but in the end of the day it is not too different to the swimmer/runner/cyclist etc that goes to the games and finishes last in the 1st heat
Her performance was terrible but in the end of the day it is not too different to the swimmer/runner/cyclist etc that goes to the games and finishes last in the 1st heat
I'm guessing those swimmers/runners are still a lot better than your average 12 year old.
She got zero points. That suggests to me she didn't understand the requirements of the competition.
But, she;
- has Phd in breaking.
- is a judge on breaking competitions
- won WDSF Oceania
- she has funds to participate in competitions.
Macquarie be giving out phd to anyone now
She is also a lecturer, so more like she is an academic who lacks practicality/skill. Or one of those ppl, I got PhD, don't argue with me :)
has Phd in breaking.
Goes on to get 0 points at the Olympics.
If that's not damning of the PHD system at Macq Uni I don't know what is.
DO we pile on every athlete that comes last in any other event? Dont think so!
Maybe the AOC had too much weighting on Raygun’s written application?
I had a quick scan of her PhD thesis abstract at the weekend. It was about the social aspects rather than "how to". You can be an expert in a subject without being able to do it. Just imagine if those with PhDs in subjects like the mating habits of Himalayan mountain goats had to be good at it too.
But she got a Phd and we don't 😅
@boomramada: Well you know how to fix that - get jiggy with some mountain goats! No, hang on… not sure that's what I meant.
it's basically a highschool social sciences essay gilded with cash that's bought from MQ
Exactly. She is taking the piss to use as fodder for a thesis.
What's with all these names….from now on you can call me "Tbone".
We already have a @Tbone
But you can be Koko the monkey.
I feel like her performance was the one time armchair experts probably have justifiably been able to make an accurate judgement on an athlete’s skill in a sport they have never participated in or know anything about.
I’m sure she probably is a very good break dancer, but that routine didn’t display it.
The real question is, who supported her and told her that was a good routine?
Was almost like a dare/joke gone too far.I’m sure she probably is a very good break dancer, but that routine didn’t display it.
Of the few videos that have come to light of her dancing, there isn't a single one that would rank as high as "good".
After hearing and reading more about it, the situation seems to make more sense.
I feel like @Meatyone summed it up nicely below too.
Ok, I've really wanted to weigh in on this one at some point as someone who was, and still is, heavily into the scene both here and overseas (i.e. 25 years in the scene). The first thing that frustrates me the most, especially from her as a supposed 'expert', is it is NOT called breakDANCING. It is called Breaking. That is it. Anyone in the culture knows this. She acts as a gatekeeper of the culture and doesn't even understand the vocab of the culture itself. The event itself is also called Breaking, not breakdancing. As an academic that has studied it for years, the fact that she keeps referring to herself as a 'breakdancer' really riles me.
Secondly, objectively and subjectively her performance was bad. Breaking is made up of several elements, the 2 most well known of which are top-rocking (footwork standing up) and power-moves (think big moves like flares, etc). Her top-rocking was absolutely dreadful. She has no style. She has no rhythm, and she is so far off her timing it is ridiculous. Her power-moves were literally non-existent. They weren't bad. They didn't exist. Everything else she did was some interpretive dance garbage. Her husband and 'coach' is a joke in the scene, as is their crew.
I've been in cyphers with some of the best in this country, and overseas including BC One winners, and her being in the games was the absolute pinnacle of nepotism. Even in the qualifier itself she was the worst competitor of the lot. I know of at least a dozen B-Girls in this country that would ruin her without breaking a sweat, and the fact that she is a self-indulgent twat just rubs me the wrong way, especially when she turned it into a gender wars argument and male competitors wouldn't be criticised like she was.
Back to my first point though, her knowledge of the culture, and the elements of breaking are basic at best, and she got caught lacking on the world stage. J-Attack held his own, and was never going to beat the likes of Wizard, but he still actually ripped and wouldn't look out of place in a cypher. Ray Gun wouldn't be able to hold her own in a cypher with 10 year olds learning their first top rocks.Great insight.
I'm not an expert but it doesn't take one to realise it was a bad performance.
My question is, how/why she was chosen to represent Australia?
I do feel sorry for the Aussie girls who should have represented us.
Curious, did any of the
at least a dozen B-Girls in this country that would ruin her without breaking a sweat
participate in the qualification tournament in Sydney? If not why?
I get that she wasn't a great choice, but did they actually pass over better B-Girls to send Raygun to the Olympics? If so why (and how/who was responsible)?
It seems like Raygun is coping the blame but surely she didn't judge herself the winner, or determine who her competitors were?
One possible reason is that the "inaugural" championship was held by World DanceSport—whom up until 2023, never had anything to do with breaking/breakdancing. And all of a sudden, they're claiming to be the peak body for a scene that has had multiple smaller organisations, but no combined national peak body to speak of. So I guess that may have pissed off a fair few legitimate breakers from even wanting anything to do with this.
But that's just my very shallow, 2-min google research. I don't have a PhD in break dance or anything.
Yes that seems to be the popular theory. But if the 'legit' B-Girls didn't enter the qualifying tournament by choice (for whatever reason), then what was the alternative to sending Raygun? Sending one of the other girls that couldn't qualify wouldn't have had a different result.
@larndis: Did the legit dancers even know there was a qualifier?
We need a royal commission to find out where this went wrong. Feels like somebody misused some public funds somewhere for this to happen.
@811b11e8: A Royal Commission into this whole debacle definitely sounds like a most Australian thing to do in this scenario.
@811b11e8: Honestly, it sounds funny when you first read it. But if all of this is true, it is actual corruption. It needs to be investigated.
And, if one cannot see the irony of a middle-aged white woman using her privilege to buy a ticket to represent Australia in breaking…well, that says it all.
@Bobby Hill: It seems to me the problem is with including Breaking in the Olympics without it being an organised sport with a recognised international body. World DanceSport Federation saw an opportunity and were granted responsibility for overseeing the selection processes without any experience in or connection to Breaking. So the Breaking community shunned the Olympics.
If there is a misuse of power it is with the IOC/WDSF. Raygun et al just worked with the processes in place. Who would you have sent instead, who actually attended the qualifier?
As an academic that has studied it for years,
Studying Breaking is a job for an Academic?
Give me a break.
That's literally her job. Tax-payer dollars hard at work.
Why would the taxpayer be paying her?
especially when she turned it into a gender wars argument and male competitors wouldn't be criticised like she was
If a dude had danced like she did, he'd be celebrated as an Aussie larrikin
doubt it remember Corey Worthington? larrikin behaviour isnt really celebrated male or female, especially at something which the nation prides itself over like the olympics.
The first thing that frustrates me the most, especially from her as a supposed 'expert', is it is NOT called breakDANCING. It is called Breaking.
I used to do a bit of breakdancing/breaking and there were plenty of people in Victoria at least who referred to it as both breakdancing and breaking. Wickid Force were referred to as breakdancers back in the day and they probably called themselves that too at some point. Have things changed and does it really matter what it's called? Because people are still moving their bodies to the rhythm of music at the end of the day and isn't that still "dancing"? I don't see why it can't be called breakdancing and breaking, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal if people refer to it as breakdancing IMO.
Breaking is made up of several elements, the 2 most well known of which are top-rocking (footwork standing up) and power-moves (think big moves like flares, etc).
The way the judges scored the competition seemed to be more about style and hitting the beats rather than straight-up powermoves. The commentators mentioned that competitors had to also have "concepts" (or something) in their rounds. Although the men's scoring seemed to be all over the place, Shigekix was destroying his opponents with powermoves (although he was hitting beats too) yet J Attack who is obviously more capable than Raygun still scored poorly against his opponents when he was easily busting out windmills, 1990s, elbow airflares, airchairs etc. I was really shocked he scored so poorly especially against the Ukrainian guy.
You didn't mention downrock but Raygun's was freaking weird, she didn't seem to bust out a single six step and she did so many weird things like joining her hands together so she was like an eel, sliding around like she was Homer Simpson etc. Whatever she was doing it definitely was not breaking or breakdancing and it totally makes sense that she got to the Olympics through nepotism rather than actual merit. I saw clips of her on YouTube battle other people who had more style and could actually do powermoves, it was evident that Raygun can't even windmill lol. It seems the closest thing to a powermove she could achieve was that weird double-elbow two-leg swipe lol. Really sad that she was the one who competed for us when there definitely would be more capable b-girls around. People in this country fkn love nepotism.
I watched the J-Attack vs “Wizard” match .
Honestly I thought J-Attac’s routine was much better ,
maybe I’m old now and more traditional about breaking
and what I understand it to be ,
but the wiz was too subtle for me inside a baggy track suit ,
all rep and no substance and no power moves that I could see .
Go watch the heat again and see if you agree .
J-Attac for the Win .And Also
I think the battle format was the letdown.
Look at the skateboarding ,
you had a go then cheered on the next competitor ..
The dance fight is beyond cringe for the athletic type audience .But there are a few other “sports” that really should dropped from the Olympic’s , like syncro swimming , hand ball , equestrian , golf ,
but not the triple jump ,
I was good at that .You seem to have fallen into the trap of attributing what others have reported, i.e. using the term breakdancing, to her. To the best of my knowledge, she uses the term breaking, or has since perhaps as early as 2016. When did breaking overtake breakdancing as the preferred term?
You can have a look at how she refers to it at what time here - https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/rachael-gunn/public…
Breaking sounds cooler when someone asks what you’ve been up to .
Or
It could have something to do with the titles of the movies in the 80’s that pushed along breakdancing / breaking into a thing .
And then there was MJ with the Moonwalk .
There has always been the outlier performances from people in the breakdancing sphere ,
People love to dance , whether they’re good or not .
I can attest to that .It was always called Breaking. Old heads going back as far as the Bronx era would never be caught dead calling it Breakdancing because that's not what it was called. The 4 pillars of Hip Hop are Breaking, DJing (more specifically Turntabling), Graffiti, and Rap. Breakdancing was a 90s term given to a 70s style. Breaking is after all done to the literal break in a song. Breakdance is what the media called it, you've got it backwards. Breaking or B-Boying was always the preferred term in culture, never breakdance.
Ok , but it is dancing to music , and there are movies that popularised breaking called breakdance that came out in the 80’s so ..
The songs at the time refer to it in both terms ,
Listen to the music .
Not having a shot but McQ call it breakdancing.
https://figshare.mq.edu.au/articles/thesis/Deterritorializin…
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Why is she being treated differently to every other athlete who qualified for the games but didn't place highly?