EV Price Wars: Are Legacy Brands Running out of Gas?

BuddhaBoy on 08/06/2024 - 14:45

Hey everyone!

EV prices are taking a nosedive! It’s like a clearance sale on wheels. Maybe there’s an oversupply, or maybe brands just want to play “How low can you go?” Take Tesla, for example. Their super-efficient manufacturing means they can sell EVs cheaper than my grocery bill and still make bank.

So, how are the old-school car brands going to cope with this EV stampede? I mean, I was eyeing the Volvo XC60 Recharge, and it starts at $100,000! Even the regular XC60 is starts above $80k. Who’s shelling out that kind of cash when you can snag a BYD, Chinese brand, or Tesla for way less? It’s like choosing between a gourmet meal and an all-you-can-eat buffet.

What do you think? Can legacy brands keep up, or are they headed for the museum next to the horse-drawn carriage?

Automotive Electric Vehicle

Comments

  • May4th on 08/06/2024 - 15:04
    +42

    There's plenty who still swears by their horses "what are you going to do when your car runs out of petrol" I will still have my horse that runs on hay and a good whipping

    • Sinnerator on 10/06/2024 - 08:33
      +6

      I used spurs on a tesla, didn't improve performance at all, but atleast the gouges blended in with the hap hazzard panel gaps

      • spiderbite88 on 10/06/2024 - 14:21
        +6

        Find me a panel gap photo from a Shanghai produced Tesla

      • iDroid on 10/06/2024 - 19:45
        +3

        Clearly you weren't using a Tesla spur adaptor - you need one for them to work. $3399 in the Tesla store.

        • serpserpserp on 12/06/2024 - 11:45

          You forgot the on going subscription cost of that one

        • derrida derider on 12/06/2024 - 19:29

          Which version? Make sure you get one with Version 16.32 - its a simple OTA update from there.

      • blitz on 11/06/2024 - 17:22
        +1

        the gouges

        you mean the speed holes?

    • Windows98 on 10/06/2024 - 20:18
      +4

      Horses can go anywhere. There's hardly any roads for these "motor vehicles" to drive on.

      • Aleigh123 on 11/06/2024 - 05:54

        Skyrim horses truly can go anywhere.

  • randomusername2017 on 08/06/2024 - 15:08
    -2

    Small window..price wars will be over by 1/7…

    • BargainMe on 10/06/2024 - 17:44
      +3

      It won't be, people aren't magically going to find money to buy overpriced EVs just because it's a new financial year.

      • iDroid on 10/06/2024 - 19:46
        +1

        You don't understand how quickly and cheaply China can pump these out..

        Think $29 Android phones versus the iPhone…

        • webtonmoy on 10/06/2024 - 21:59

          True, each has its own market… iPhone price has actually increased over the past 10 years…

          • Jackson on 12/06/2024 - 14:06

            @webtonmoy: "artificially" increased, deliberately by Apple

            • webtonmoy on 12/06/2024 - 15:19

              @Jackson: I guess they calculate how much the customers are willing to pay for iPhones, even when they have cheaper alternatives. The same would happen for cars…

      • randomusername2017 on 14/06/2024 - 13:26

        Demand is only part of the equation.

  • jetabe on 08/06/2024 - 15:16
    +42

    There is a lot of paid marketing in the media for ICE cars.

    I think some will still want to keep the dino juicers going.

    Tesla do not have a PR team so odds are always stacked against them.

    The next wave of Chinese EV's xpeng and Polestar 4 are just too tempting to resist.
    There will come inflection point and no looking back from there.
    Even now the Tesla Model 3 Performance is a supercar beater renders M3 irrelevant but the media reviewers will never say that.
    The quality is always getting better and better, yet the reviewers say
    Does not make the right sounds.
    Is not practical enough     (same reviewer gives Porsche full marks - 2 doors and negligible storage)
    The thing has zero service requirements. This kind of shift hurts established economies and world order.
    On top of that lasts longer than any ICE car.
    Therefore the misinformation is going to last a long time.

    It will be interesting to observe for sure!

    • MaxTravels on 09/06/2024 - 10:16
      +12

      Couldn’t agree more. NRMA recently published an article with the same sentiment. I feel that a lot of this recent hype is sponsored by fossil fuel companies.

      • gbarlett on 11/06/2024 - 08:43

        Do you have a link to this article?

    • Antikythera on 09/06/2024 - 23:36
      +1

      some will still want to keep the dino juicers going.

      once service stations start closing it will be interesting.
      I doubt they'll all be switching over to charging points.

      LPG deserts already exist.
      I wonder if petrol or diesel pumps will be first to go.

      once retailer locations start to reduce, the price will go up until its a luxury to keep a classic on the road.

      • greatlamp on 10/06/2024 - 19:29
        +4

        Definitely petrol. Diesel will hang around servicing trucking needs. Ironically the dirtiest fuel is the last to go.

        • Euphemistic on 10/06/2024 - 20:07
          +5

          Possibly, but the other part of that equation is that truck fleets wear out vehicles quicker than private owners. Theyll also see a quicker return on investment not paying for diesel and moving to battery. Long haul trucking will probably hang on longest, but may match private owners hanging on to petrol cars.

          • Tleyx on 11/06/2024 - 14:49
            +4

            @Euphemistic: Also truck maintenance is a big part of costs, if they can get that down using EV tech.

            Trucking is about money not ideology, if it makes sense it will be quick

        • beach bum on 12/06/2024 - 09:04
          +1

          And most efficient !

    • Viper8 on 10/06/2024 - 10:25
      +11

      "…Tesla Model 3 Performance is a supercar beater renders M3 irrelevant…"

      1. You know that there's more to a supercar than great straight-line acceleration, right? Tesla's are notorious on track for the battery overheating after a couple of laps (almost all EV's do) resulting in power loss, having lots of body roll in corners and brakes that fade away after just a couple of corners. Even the S Plaid - hence why they created the optional Track Pack (which still doesn't fix the overheating battery). If you were talking about the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N then I would have agreed with you. Good suspension, and brakes and battery cooling that are up to back-to-back laps on the track, all topped off by insane levels of drivetrain customisability with the ICE emulation added in as a sweet bonus.

      2. A BMW M3 is not a Supercar…

      • jetabe on 10/06/2024 - 11:45
        +6

        1. TBH the standard acceleration on m3p is enough for 99.9% applications. Teslas used to be good in straight line acceleration only. New model 3 performance has changed that with its driving dynamics.
          Hyundai Ionic 5 N is an amazing vehicle as well. I haven't looked into it in detail only because its over the LCT threshold so doesn't work for my situation.

        2. Yes Bmw m3 will never be a supercar and currently Bmw dont make supercars, their sports cars are just as good. M3 is the nearest competition price wise to the model 3 performance.
          The retail on bmw m3 is twice that of model3 performance. I like the bmw m3 a lot, that was till I test drove the tesla.
          I still say m3 ice is rendered useless when you take everything else into consideration.

        • The servicing requirements on m3
        • Ongoing fuel costs
        • Tax Incentives on model performance

        Lets see what future brings!
        BTW: I do have m3p on order.

          • jetabe on 10/06/2024 - 18:43

            @dogboy: It's not my job to convince you my lord

            Dare I say I happened to add the word
            'currently' which of course your keyboard heavy hands forgot to mention.

            I'm not looking for your affirmation.

            All I said is it'll be interesting to observe the EV landscape.
            Just go your own way!

          • Eeples on 11/06/2024 - 02:43

            @dogboy: I negged you. No i8 since 2000 and none until late 2025 or 2026.

            Your lack of knowledge makes me doubt your other points.

            • dogboy on 11/06/2024 - 10:29
              -3

              @Eeples: You are embarrassing yourself by being completely ignorant of the facts. BMW created i8s in 2017-2020 models. Maybe you should spend a minute doing some research before sprouting incorrect facts and trying to be funny or whatever you call it. https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/i8

              • Eeples on 12/06/2024 - 20:06

                @dogboy: 2000, should be 2020 obviously. And to be clear YOU are the one embarrassing yourself by claiming BMW do make a supercar (they don't). You have even admitted it.

      • Miami Mall Alien on 10/06/2024 - 17:42
        -1

        Pretentiously smug EV cultists have never been to a race track with their laptops-on-wheels. If they had, they'd have left with their egos as bruised as their tyres and brakes.

        Obviously the Nevera/Evija and purpose-built EV race cars are a different story but pedestrian EVs against much lighter, much better handling ICE sports cars on twisty circuits? It's like seeing a bunch of nimble Lotus Exiges racing against bigger, heavier, unwieldy muscle cars; the Lotuses will smoke them 9 times out of 10 just like they would against some Teslas.

    • jetabe on 10/06/2024 - 19:33

      misinformation being called out already.

      https://youtu.be/3qzateoFSrc?si=24nHoDdamm2NTZjF

    • salad ass on 11/06/2024 - 14:46
      +2

      I'm glad someone else has noticed this also. In many of my news feeds i keep seeing anti ev articles with super general and click-baity titles… so much so, its impossible not to think that there is some agenda being pushed here (why all of a sudden are EVs now bad, unsustainable, not the panacea they were purported to be..etc) . I thought the market sentiment was changing, but (and i understand this is anecdotal) after speaking with a varied few groups within my circles, this is no where near the case. If anything, its swaying more to EVs.

      As you say, it will be interesting to see where this goes, the next 18 months will be a rapid change imo.

      • beach bum on 12/06/2024 - 10:24

        There’s some elections on the way , politicians are straddling this as an issue so support fades and the Petro lobby fills the dead space in their very long last gasp .
        Everything hopefully will keep on the right path once the polies hav secured their jobs for another 3-4years .

      • netjock on 12/06/2024 - 10:31

        there is some agenda being pushed here

        Think you might be more concerned with people believing what they are fed rather than doing research.

        It is like the crowd that believes planes are spraying chemicals therefore the chem trails.

        Now come only a single truck pulls up to put fuel into the wing tanks? Where is the other tank for the chemicals.

        I am very concerned that people who can't work out their transport requirements. I've done the math to death between EVs and ICEs. There is instances where ICEs work out cheaper but the argument is you can't get a similar car for the price. I also can't get an EV at the same price as a Piccanto. A lot of EV owners are just talking it up to keep up the resale value.

    • serpserpserp on 12/06/2024 - 11:47
      +1

      Have you seen the price of the Polestar 3? Can't imagine how out of market the polestar 4 is going to be here.

      And I really like polestar cars. But they too are heading in the wrong direction price wise.

  • Drakesy on 08/06/2024 - 16:06
    +12

    Its like nokia
    Once the pioneer and did all the heavy lifting only to be overtaken by newer, more innovative brands.

    • netjock on 12/06/2024 - 10:35

      Most Tesla owners weren't born when Nokia was a thing that is why they don't know about it.

    • richadam on 10/06/2024 - 09:34
      +3

      Just remember people who review cars are car people. EVs dont exactly give car people hard ons

      I'd imagine that people who reviewed thoroughbred horses didn't get excited over ICE's either, yet here we are…

    • Euphemistic on 10/06/2024 - 09:41
      +4

      Just remember people who review cars are car people. EVs dont exactly give car people hard ons

      Tell me you havent seen any EV reviews without telling me.

      Plenty of petrol heads loving the instant acceleration, plenty enjoying the handling becaus the weight sits so low.

      Then theres the Ioniq 5N…

      • JimB on 11/06/2024 - 15:20

        Apart from the Ioniq 5N and Taycan, the vast majority of petrol heads dislike the handling of EVs due to the overall weight.

        I look forward to see what Porsche can achieve with their fully electric Boxster/Cayman

        • Euphemistic on 11/06/2024 - 16:31
          +1

          While its true they are a bit heavier than ICE, the low and centred centre of gravity does help handling.

          • JimB on 11/06/2024 - 17:13

            @Euphemistic: Low centre of gravity does definitely help handling but doesn’t fully offset the extra weight for handling.

            The best handling cars are always lighter.

  • Cluster on 08/06/2024 - 16:19
    +2

    While I doubt Tesla can make a car for less than the OP's grocery bill, it will be interesting when EV batteries become cheap enough that worries about whether they'll last a decade will be irrelevant as a replacement will be cheap. Legacy car makers can't make a petrol or diesel drivetrain 50% cheaper this year, but that's what's already happening in the battery field in 2024.

    But comparing a BYD to a Volvo and asking why someone would want a Volvo is like comparing a KIA to a Mercedes and asking why anyone would want the Mercedes.

    • CheapandUsed on 08/06/2024 - 18:55
      +34

      like comparing a KIA to a Mercedes and asking why anyone would want the Mercedes.

      Exactly! Kia every time.

      • aranciata-oz on 09/06/2024 - 09:16
        +3

        Gold - you take the smart comment prize for this post. One’s a (largely) well engineered machine, the other is a 3 point sw%%ti*a badge.

      • xavster on 10/06/2024 - 18:40
        +1

        LOL, he walked right into that one…

      • kaleidoscope on 10/06/2024 - 20:54

        Exactly! Kia every time.

        username checks out 💪

    • May4th on 09/06/2024 - 09:20
      +8

      except you are comparing Kia to Hyundai. Volvo EV is just another rebadged chinese EV like MG, it's owned by Geely.,
      I would also prefer a Kia for the record, having just sold a Merc after 2 years of ownership which I'll never buy again

  • andrew229 on 08/06/2024 - 16:44
    +2

    Yes, i have a tesla M3. and love it… a great car.
    The M3 performance sounds like a fun car, but the practical part of me says to keep the M3
    The porsche and Merc ev's are great cars, but not worth the 2x or 3x the price of the M3P

    • serpserpserp on 12/06/2024 - 11:51

      With the M3 quickly approaching 50k, the merc EVs are over 4x the price

    • BuddhaBoy on 08/06/2024 - 16:54
      +6

      These words are of EV hater.

      • elgrande on 09/06/2024 - 04:29
        +3

        My comment was targeted at Tesla.

        EV's will be around, Tesla won't.

        • max900 on 10/06/2024 - 16:42
          +4

          Why? I thought Tesla has the highest margin per EV sold. A lot of manufacturers have very little or negative margin for every EV sold. I think the only EV around in the future will be Tesla and chinese brands.

    • GordonD on 08/06/2024 - 18:15
      +1

      Tesla is kept afloat nicely thanks to the other countries that have adopted the same scheme the Australian government has of REQUIRING car manufacturers to sell a certain percentage of zero pollution vehicles, or pay a fine. To achieve that they pay Tesla for the right to count Teslas as being manufactured by them. Its making Tesla billions every year, and allowing it to sell its cars as cheaply as it is, and still make a nice profit. Euro and US manufacturers could hardly pay BYD or other Chinese manufacturers to do that, so Tesla gets that big boost to its finances.

      • serpserpserp on 12/06/2024 - 11:53
        +1

        Link for this? I doubt Ford and Toyota are paying Tesla to sell cars in Australia

        • Euphemistic on 12/06/2024 - 12:30

          Not yet. But once the emissions standard come in to play theres a good possibility that tesla will offer 'offsets for cash'

    • andrew229 on 08/06/2024 - 18:31
      +2

      No, if have owned toyota's, mercs, volvo's, etc and now a Tesla
      They are a great car to drive and use, and they are getting cheaper due to economies of scale
      If you dont understand that, then just wait 5 years, even more ev's will be around, and getting more popular

      • Euphemistic on 09/06/2024 - 06:58
        +3

        Its not just economy of scale. They are also suffering from increqsed competition and an economic down turn. They are dropping prices to sell stock.

        Wasnt that long ago that buying an EV in Australia had 2-3 choices and the Tesla was virtually the only option.

    • NMC on 10/06/2024 - 23:08
      +2

      The Tesla model Y was the highest selling car in the world last year. They are incredibly efficient.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 08/06/2024 - 17:52
    +4

    Media (and likely ICE makers) are beating the drum that EVs are not the way to go.

    I am one of many contemplating the switch to an EV and $50k right now for a BYD Seal is a steal. If BYD or Tesla comes down a further 10%, I would jump on the EV bandwagon immediately.

    • richadam on 10/06/2024 - 09:42
      +4

      Been eying off the BYD Dolphin for cheaper. We're building a house and it come with solar and a free EV charge point. Seems like a no brainer.

  • GordonD on 08/06/2024 - 18:10

    Both the US and EU are going to solve the problem of the Chinese building cheap EVs and undercutting them. They are going to put huge tariffs on them. The US its 100% added to the price. US manufacturers will be able to compete with double price Chinese EVs. The good news is for the rest of the world, like us. We don't have a car manufacturing industry any longer - thanks a lot Keating - for the Chinese to compete with, so we'll keep paying the Chinese price.

    • Daabido on 08/06/2024 - 23:19
      +2

      Ok, I'll bite. How exactly did Paul Keating kill the Australian car manufacturing industry?

      Sometime paying the Chinese CCP subsidised price comes at another price.

      Burn Your Dreams / (Air)Bags You're Dreaming

      • aranciata-oz on 09/06/2024 - 09:20
        +3

        Exactly. How much was it costing us the taxpayer to prop up a locally made car? Look it up …

        I was passionate and still am passionate about local manufacturing but it cannot come at the expense of poor use of taxpayer money.

        Denmark and Norway do not manufacture any cars and they’re not exactly sitting at the bottom of the human index scale … something to consider.

        • AlexF on 10/06/2024 - 09:24
          +1

          I was passionate and still am passionate about local manufacturing but it cannot come at the expense of poor use of taxpayer money.

          It’s great that you like local cars but that wasn’t the reason to have (subsidised) local manufacture. Rather, it was the flow-on effect - it was a stepping stone - employing engineers who’d go on and use learned knowledge to create new innovations, companies and employment. That path is now irreversibly lost.

          • greatlamp on 10/06/2024 - 19:35
            +2

            @AlexF: We will keep telling young people to study STEM, while telling older people trapped in casual employment that we have a "service" economy now and they need to upskill.

            A couple I know recently immigrated, one a chef, the other a chemical engineer with a phD in polymer science. The chef was employed in a week. I told them immediately that there is no job in science for you here. They lasted a year and left.

            • serpserpserp on 12/06/2024 - 14:20

              @greatlamp:

              I told them immediately that there is no job in science for you here.

              Well with that attitude there won't be

              • greatlamp on 12/06/2024 - 17:34

                @serpserpserp: Not sure what you are implying. It shouldn't take over a year for someone with experience to find a job.

    • panos on 09/06/2024 - 11:22
      -1

      and thank goodness they were making crap cars for so long and getting away with it….

      • serpserpserp on 12/06/2024 - 14:23

        Ssshhh you'll offend the people who worked at Ford and Holden Australia that were on obscene wages and conditions, that then went on to get obscene payouts when the industry collapsed. If only they had made world leading cars we could have exported to other countries and sell a million of, something like a Tesla…..

        • greatlamp on 12/06/2024 - 15:17
          +1

          The wages were high but not obscene.

          In 2015 a technician at Toyota was paid a salary starting at 60k, an engineer starting on 90k.

          The idea that their wages is what caused the plants to close is bootlicker nonsense. They would have closed anyway just like they did in the USA and Germany. Wages would never be low enough to compete with Thiland, Mexico or Poland.

          Ask yourself why Toyota and Kia can afford to make cars in Japan/Korea, it's not wages, it's plant automation that makes it possible. If GM and Ford refuse to invest in manufacturing it's not the workers fault for being paid too much

          • serpserpserp on 12/06/2024 - 17:30

            @greatlamp:

            it's not the workers fault for being paid too much

            They were heavily unionized and for over a decade the could see the writing on the wall. But the just kept putting out their hand despite not making a lot of money in Australia. How can you invest in automation when the union will step in and grind the place to a hold the minute any jobs might be lost? That isn't a thought piece, they actually did automate some of the plants which means job loses and people striked over redundancy payouts not being at the astronomical level they wanted.

            an engineer starting on 90k.

            That works be 90k + super. I knew guys that were 5-7 years in as engineers and pushing over 200k + super + a car at Holden. No overtime, wage increases every year above CPI. Can't remember if they got bonuses. Trust me, it was a good wicket for the amount of work they put in. I remember one of their payouts was going to be in the order of 500k and they were crying poor! How will I ever get another job? Even though they had employed people from Holden and the government bending over backwards to get them jobs. But they wanted their cushy 200k job! Nothing was ever good enough. They had years to think about their next move and they basically say there and whinged about it until the day came and they "couldn't believe it".

            • greatlamp on 13/06/2024 - 06:24

              @serpserpserp: Workers don't strike over redundancy payouts unless they aren't getting what they are entitled to. Don't be ignorant, strikes cost workers money too.

              I did a tour of the FCA plant outside Milan in 2018. Heard the same thing from the general manager "we can't automate because unions".

              The unspoken part was that being Italy, union pressure went much further than striking workers.

              Nevertheless their upcoming flagship turned out a huge disappointment because they were unable to keep up with modern manufacturing standards. Beautiful design let down by poor build quality.

              Unlike in Australia where people forgave the poor build quality of Holden and Ford because they were so much cheaper (and the vast majority never sat inside a 90s BMW or Mercedes), Italians don't support the local brand because it has a poor reputation.

              https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey-most-reliabl…

              https://www.giuliaforums.com/threads/giulia-qv-poor-build-qu…

              https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/alfa-romeo/giulia/103038/long-…

              • serpserpserp on 13/06/2024 - 12:18

                @greatlamp:

                Workers don't strike over redundancy payouts unless they aren't getting what they are entitled to

                We aren't talking about the nurses union where they are incredibly under paid. The auto workers industry knew they were on a good wicket and refused to negotiate on anything because previously they never took a step back and always got what they wanted. It is a classic example of unions making an industry untenable. No the workers didn't put the auto industry out of Australia on its own. There are similar factors to the Italian example you raise. But when a big part of your expenses are human related, it is a massive deal if they are constantly walking off the job and wanting more money

                • greatlamp on 13/06/2024 - 15:02

                  @serpserpserp: I don't see why you view that entitlements can be ignored when workers are paid more. Why is the employer allowed to abuse their power?

                  Nurses are paid well because they walked off the job on many occasions. Many other health professionals are paid far less for jobs that are just as stressful and important as they work in fragmented industries where unionisation is ineffective and the employer is able to abuse their power and get away with it. Just have a look at what carers get paid in nursing homes.

                  You talk like you are jealous that workers are paid well, or you just hate unions. Why is it better for more profits to go to the CEO and shareholders? Aren't they far more overpaid?

                  • serpserpserp on 13/06/2024 - 17:13

                    @greatlamp:

                    You talk like you are jealous that workers are paid well, or you just hate unions.

                    Not at all. What I didn't like was the entitlement that they demanded. They didn't strike because they weren't getting their entitlements, they did so because they didn't feel like what they were entitled to wasn't enough. They were very out of touch with the rest of the Australian job market on this one.

                    Why is it better for more profits to go to the CEO and shareholders? Aren't they far more overpaid?

                    I didn't say this.

                    Also: what profits? The industry was under water. Also was it better that taxpayers pay these wages and entitlements? Effectively in the end, all the tax payers in this country ended up subsidising the payouts.

                    • greatlamp on 13/06/2024 - 21:26

                      @serpserpserp: Multinational companies with Australian operations tend to report little to no profit in this country, and pay little to no tax. This isn't new.

                      Meanwhile you are upset that workers are clawing back a small portion of those profits for themselves.

                      • serpserpserp on 13/06/2024 - 21:45

                        @greatlamp: Your argument makes no sense. Holden and Ford didn't close down here because they were making money and sending it back to the US. They weren't making money.

                        Entitled workers were part of the reason they didn't make money. Then those workers ended up a burden on tax payers while making out the had their livelihoods ripped from them by the evil corporations out of the blue.

  • Euphemistic on 08/06/2024 - 18:21
    +2

    All i know is that the bots ans haters love to kake up storiea about EVs. Rhetoric is strong in relation to EVs and sales.

    Otherwsie, there are a bunch of factors affecting the car market. EVs are moving into a new phase in Aus. Early adopters who will pay good money to early adopt have already adopted. Now we are moving toward having a wide variety of models and a wider range of customers. Yes, the BYDs etc are changing the market coming in cheaper to buy market share. Legacy makers are dragging the chain a bit too. But Aus is also 3-5y behind Europe in implementing EVs and having a cost of living crisis so that affecting sales.

    Tesla has done itself a disservice by cutting prices. Yes, its good for new customers, but it is devaluing their 'prestige' status and affecting resale prices. Its like they are advertising theyve been ripping us off for years becasue they are cheaper now.

    • andrew229 on 08/06/2024 - 18:35
      -2

      I think Tesla dropping prices is just the reality of prices dropping as more ev's are built
      and its good for consumers

      I dont care that new Tesla's M3's are cheaper than my M3, i will give mine to a family member anyway
      and it just makes my next car cheaper
      All of my previous cars dropped i price after i bought them….

      • Daabido on 08/06/2024 - 23:21
        +34

        I let it go the first time. You do not own an M3, you own a Model 3.

  • andrew229 on 08/06/2024 - 18:32
    +1

    Yes, BYD's are great value
    I prefer tesla, but BYD's are very good value for the price

  • masterqur on 08/06/2024 - 18:47
    +11

    We need more affordable EV. Tesla and BYD in my opinion is still overpriced.

    • Euphemistic on 08/06/2024 - 22:37

      I think they are coming. If only 'we' could see that city commuter cars don't need 300km of range.

      Many housholds have more than one car. Quite often one is only ever used for local commuting amd garaged overnight. This type would be perfect for a smaller battery and minimal whiz bang features. Sure, keep the safety tech but keep the rest old school simple to cut costs.

      • DashCam AKA Rolts on 09/06/2024 - 01:51
        +1

        Waiting for the BYD Seagull for this exact use. Already built in RHD, being sold in Thailand. Discussions re a BYD plant in Thailand to build the Seagull.🤞

      • ColtNoir on 09/06/2024 - 09:59
        +3

        We really need the standard to be 500km minimum. As someone who was considering an EV recently, the 450km models and below killed it for me.
        I like aircon and don’t want to have to worry about if I accelerate too fast when I drive to Sydney from the CC and back.
        I also think we should make it illegal for Tesla chargers to only charge Tesla vehicles. (Unless that’s changed/I got that one wrong).
        I’ve shelved the idea of a new car until interest rates/inflation normalise hopefully next year.

        • MaxTravels on 09/06/2024 - 10:19

          I believe that tesla chargers are able to be used by all evs in Australia (could be wrong, new EV owner and haven’t done a lot of public charging). My Kia EV6 can do 480km on a full charge, the 2WD goes even further. They aren’t a bargain price though, but a beautiful car.

          • quick-dry on 10/06/2024 - 03:24

            @MaxTravels: so long as they have the same connector, afaik it won't work with chademo connector.

            (have charged a Kia Niro EV using Tesla charger)

        • Euphemistic on 09/06/2024 - 12:08
          +3

          We really need the standard to be 500km minimum.

          Rubbish. I was talking about city commuter cars,cars that average 30km per day. SOME people need 500km minimum. MOST people would rarely drive that far in a day more than once a year. Then when most people do travel that far, theyll have a decent length meal/rest break and will be able to charge, especailly as the charge network improves.

          Of course there are people who will WANT AND USE 500km range regularly, but the majority will not need it.

          There is no need to standardise on a battery that is 2-3 times as bigger than what is needed.

          • ColtNoir on 09/06/2024 - 15:05
            -3

            @Euphemistic: Mate. With the way urban sprawl is going it’s probably going to be more prevalent than people like yourself believe.
            Additionally, there’s 30% of the country who rent so they currently won’t be able to top up daily with ease. Add to that the amount of homes with street parking only and that’s now a larger amount.

            Or are EV’s only for homeowners with driveways/garages? We’ve just removed half the country by this stage.

            There’s max capacity vs actual usage and deterioration. These are my reason why 300km isn’t enough, unless people should have a second car/rent one when they need to go further than 100km.
            The max capacity from my understanding also doesn’t take into consideration air conditioning and electronic device usage.

            • Euphemistic on 09/06/2024 - 18:47

              @ColtNoir:

              Or are EV’s only for homeowners with driveways/garages? We’ve just removed half the country by this stage

              I never said you cant have more range. I just said there neednt be a mininum range for cars. Some people need want 500km.range. most would bever use it.

              If i bought 2 EVs id only want one to have a long range. Otherwise its a waste of $5k or more worth of battery. Our second car currently uses less than a tank per month. Thats under 200km per WEEK. Why would it need 500km of range when it can get charged every night.

              • ColtNoir on 10/06/2024 - 08:54
                -5

                @Euphemistic: ‘I can charge it every night’ - did you not read my point?
                Why would you need two EV’s? Obviously having a 2nd car reduces the burden.

                Minimum standard for capacity are needed for real world variables like cold, heat, broken infrastructure eg chargers. Yes, in an ideal world you wouldn’t need more than 300km but there’s more people out there that don’t live in your situation.
                Its also pretty clear if we don’t put requirements on manufacturers they’re not going to do it themselves.

                • Euphemistic on 10/06/2024 - 09:19

                  @ColtNoir: You still dont get it either. Just becasue you say YOU need 500km of range does not mean that the market should not cater for those who do not. The marekt IS catering for long range usage. Sure, its not at 500km yet, but its working towards that.

                  Most families will have two vehicles. Many already have one large 'family holiday' car and a smaller round town commuter car. There are plenty of EV users still using old nissan leafs with diminished battery capacity. When you can recharge every night, you do not need stupid amounts of range for a city EV.

                  Yes, i recongnise that not everyone can recharge every night and a small range battery does not suit those people. Theyll still have the option to buy something with a larger range. Why not reduce the cost of an EV by putting a smaller battery in. Make cheap EVs a thing so more people can buy one.

                  Again, our second car would likely not EVER use more than 200km range in a day. Many people are the same. Why would i want to pay for a battery size that YOU need when i clearly do not. Putting a stupidly big battery in EVERY car is wasting resources.

                  Im saying give people a choice. Range is a real issue for some buyers, price is a big factor for others.

                  • ColtNoir on 12/06/2024 - 08:26
                    -1

                    @Euphemistic: A 500km battery day 1 used like a regular car might get 400-420km. After 8 years maybe 250-300km. I’m talking about lifetime value not day 1.
                    What’s a 250km capacity car going to do in 8 years? 100km?

                    We don’t want cars to become like phones, we want a solid second hand market that doesn’t require battery replacements as often as low capacity ones would require.

                    • Euphemistic on 12/06/2024 - 10:36
                      -1

                      @ColtNoir: The battery warranty is 10 years with more than 80% capacity for most makers. The only batteries with that much reduced capacity are ones that dont have good thermal management - Nissan leaf, Mitsubishi imiev.

                      Theres a tesla getting around that had its first battery changed out under warranty at over 600,000km. There are plenty more with massive kms that still have a good percentage of capacity remaining ma y of these are predominantly fast charged too.

                      Again, there will be a market for cheap city commuter cars with short battery range, usable 100-150km.

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