How Are People Affording Properties?

Ljam-donuts on 18/05/2024 - 21:29
Last edited 19/05/2024 - 10:45 by 1 other user

I am genuinely confused and wondering if someone can explain to me how people in Melbourne and Sydney are affording properties. I rent in the eastern suburbs in Melbourne and see a near 100 percent clearance of houses sold at auction for at least $1.7mil+ around me in the Monash area. That is 11k in repayments over 30 years! You wouldn't be able to afford that even with a salary of $250k.

Where is all this wealth coming from? Is the average income of an Australian $400k or am I missing something? And is the only possibility of homeownership for an average OzBargainer (with a salary of $200k -$250k) to buy a property in crime ridden suburbs on the outskirts of Melbourne or Sydney?

Financial

Comments

          • SydBoy on 19/05/2024 - 21:29
            -1

            @tonka: Where do you get $350k unit in Sydney? A car park cost more then that in Sydney.

            Unless you think people should live with junkies and high crime suburbs because Labor government is useless in removing capital gain tax benefits for investors?

            • tonka on 19/05/2024 - 21:48
              +3

              @SydBoy: I reckon it says something that us 'junkies' and 'criminals' can buy a home and you got no hope. Maybe if you wanna live somewhere eliteist you should work harder on being elite.

              • SydBoy on 20/05/2024 - 18:53
                -1

                @tonka: you still haven't said where to find unti for 350k without high crime ?

                working hard won't make you elite and you should have learnt that by now.

                • tonka on 20/05/2024 - 20:21

                  @SydBoy: Stop being a bigot and do your own searches, I'm not playing your games.. If you don't want to work hard and make sacrifices to purchase , then don't. But stop looking for a crutch.

            • gezza90 on 20/05/2024 - 13:03
              +4

              @SydBoy: Out west. Fairfield, Harris Park, Penrith, Warwick Farm etc.Up to $500k you can find something decent and that is manageable on a $120k salary. What one person sees as the norm may be perceived as a luxury for some. E.g. Purchase a phone outright (or second hand) with 365 day sim, avoid toll roads, avoid eating out too much, maximise use of rewards/points schemes like Flybuys/CC rewards, source cheapest fuel using PetrolSpy and use vouchers, buy groceries on special and from different places, avoid excessive shopping for clothing, avoid parking fees (use public transport) etc

              There's plenty things you can do to save. For example, my wife and I going out to the beach on a Saturday. My wife pre-packs fresh fruit in containers (fruit that we've purchased on special), we take protein/muesli bars which we buy on special/clearance, we grab 7-eleven coffee on the way ($3), we park further away for free parking and if we are going to grab lunch, we'll buying something cheap (maccas deal) or something we can both share. We also avoid buying drinks from fast food places as we take our own water bottles. Call us cheap but we are able to service our mortgages and have extra saved up for next property.

              • SydBoy on 20/05/2024 - 18:51
                +1

                @gezza90: Saving is something people try to do when they think of buying home not just now but 20 year ago when I was looking so it is nothing new. it is absurd to think that people need to start saving to buy because the argument here is not about how much you can save to afford to pay deposit of 100k (even 500k unit requires 100k deposit for 20%).

                Sydney median home prices were roughly 500k and average pay for those works in coles or woollies were 45k. So roughly say around 11 times wages. The houses in Penrith or other suburb you mentioned were roughly 350k and units even in blacktown that time was roughly 270k (2 Bed).

                Today, median prices are 1.7m with average wages of those working in coles/woollies roughly 60k so that is 28times.

                Hope you understand affordability gone out of the game and it will be more and more tougher moving forward unless we get strong leadership who act on it.

                I went out today towards Campbelltown outer most CBD in south and then went to see that houses around there the new builds like menangle park etc were tiny homes on 300sqm land with a price tag of $1.2m+ now that is a joke. The issue is that in past the house prices depends upon how far you are from various amenity and City in particular but now this area where it would take you to drive roughly 1.5hr if you wanted to go to city (if you are lucky and no traffic) and no direct bus to city unless you go catch train from Campbelltown still asking millions in price tag is absurd. This all because of negative gearing, capital gain tax benefit for investment property and not due to migration or foreigners buying home in Sydney.

                • tonka on 20/05/2024 - 20:25
                  -1

                  @SydBoy: Yep, and I know someone in their 20's just bought a second property on a supermarket wage and 2nd part time job. Stop making excuses, if you don't wanna make the sacrifices then don't.

                  • SydBoy on 21/05/2024 - 13:38

                    @tonka: stop making fake stories !

                • tonka on 21/05/2024 - 13:37
                  -1

                  @SydBoy: Rubbish, 30 mins to city with no traffic. It can take you an hour and a half to drive just across the city in traffic. Traffic is everywhere in Sydney.

                  • SydBoy on 21/05/2024 - 13:40
                    +1

                    @tonka: read and understand the comment. traffic is everywhere but public transport isn't accessible from everywhere. the longer people need to travel the more impact it has on country's economy. study this in uni if you want to learn how !

                    • tonka on 21/05/2024 - 15:54
                      -1

                      @SydBoy: I suggest at this point you get a life coach. You are way too determined to lose at life.

                      • SydBoy on 21/05/2024 - 18:43
                        -2

                        @tonka: I suggest you finish school and then talk about economy and social well being and property !

                        • tonka on 21/05/2024 - 21:19
                          -1

                          @SydBoy: I probably will, now that I've made enough money I don't need to work anymore. You'll be contributing to that income of course.

      • Brianqpr on 19/05/2024 - 14:06
        +1

        Great holidays especially with kids are precious memories. They grow up so fast and those memories stay with you forever. I would absolutely not trade the fantastic holidays we've had for a bigger/more expensive house.

        I'd hate to have an existence that was purely to pay off a house. Sure maybe you can do things when you're in your 70s, but will you have the health and energy?

        • tonka on 19/05/2024 - 14:30
          +4

          Agree, but I think the issue is people want the fancy house and all the lifestyle perks. And they think that's what homeowners in the past enjoyed, but it's simply not true.

          • Brianqpr on 19/05/2024 - 22:32
            +1

            @tonka: But shouldn't quality of life improve over time? Otherwise what is the point?

            • tonka on 19/05/2024 - 23:40
              +3

              @Brianqpr: Bit of a loaded question mate. Science tells us a lack of adversity equals extinction. When you look back do you remember the challenges you overcame or the challenges that never existed? Lots of people I know are dealing with young adult offspring that won't do a thing besides play video games and shout down a gaming microphone, is that quality of life?

            • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 21:40
              +1

              @Brianqpr: Your quality of life will only ever improve if you live your life with realistic expectations and realistic goals.

              Fancy houses, lifestyles & perks is something only the hardest of hard working will ever have & they'll only really likely have that in their retirement years anyway.

              The number of people who ever have even some of those things during their child-rearing years is very small and almost all of them only have those benefits, because hard working grandparents and parents worked their entire lives to be able to hand those life lessons and investments down to their next generations & give them far better foundations to build their own lives from.

        • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 21:19
          +1

          A great holiday is worthless compared to supporting the kids throughout their early lives with a better quality home and having access to better quality schools, from living in a better quality area.

          A much better idea is to take the kids on holiday when they finish high school and give them some real-world experience in the months before they start Uni. It's a fantastic way to help prevent them from getting brainwashed at Uni by ideological zealots who have never worked a job in their lives, or seen first hand what socialism and communism do to a society, country and economy. We took our adult-kids from North Africa across to Russia, then the US down to Venezuela, then Japan across to Cambodia on the way home. We got them not to just plan out the trip, but to budget it as well so they could see where the money was being spent and get an idea of what money was worth in different countries. Then once in those countries, see how the political systems and cultures in those places strengthened or ruined the value of finances and standards of their lives there.

          Was a real eye-opener for them to experience first hand how women are treated in an Islamic country, what remains of the old Berlin wall from communist Germany, socialist reading material the Germans left in one of the concentration camps we visited in Poland. Seeing the utter disaster zone that most of San Francisco had become, compared to the amazing people and places we encountered going from Texas to Florida. Discussing what west coast American's considered the "poor" (who were just people that made poor life choices and chose to actively avoid taking the ample opportunities they have at their disposal), to watching people who worked 12 hour days every day just to survive carrying around literal shopping bags of cash in Venezuela to pay for food in the markets. Then seeing the amazing culture and standard of life people have in Japan currently thanks to enforcing strict limitations on their borders, migration policies and keeping undesirable types & foreign cultures out of the country - fantastic stuff. Especially given the entire country was effectively only reconstructed two or three generations prior to that. Then Cambodia…… just…. yeah. Life lessons to be had all around. All far more beneficial at that age compared to family trips as young kids when they don't care and won't take any real life lessons from it.

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 20:30

        Well done mate.

    • filmer on 19/05/2024 - 18:11
      +1

      When i bought a very modest place in geelongs outer suburbs it took me about 1.5 years of going with very little (no tech, games, streaming services) i went out once a month and probably dinner / movies once a month It would take me 3 years for the same % deposit now and loan would be less serviceable.

      Colleague at work once spoke like you then slipped he got his first place working part time for 9months. Would have been over twice the land also.

      At some point you have to recognise how much worse it is now.

      • JIMB0 on 19/05/2024 - 20:10
        +1

        I only bought my first house during covid lockdowns in my mid thirties. I'd been working lots of hours and saving like crazy for the previous 11 years. Ended up with a bigger and better property than I'd hoped for as I was paying cash.

  • Sye on 18/05/2024 - 21:59
    +4

    Professional OzBargainers.

  • MS Paint on 18/05/2024 - 22:40
    +22

    Just wait for the inheritance from your boomer parents then you'll be sweet.*

    *Assuming they don't spend all their new cash on Pacific island cruises when they downsize to a retirement village.

    • smartazz104 on 19/05/2024 - 13:04
      +2

      Then you find out that for every boomer that got theirs, there are 10 boomers that were left behind…

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 21:42
        +2

        They were only "left behind" though as a result of poor life choices and electing not to work hard.

    • SydBoy on 21/05/2024 - 18:45
      -1

      Most people commenting on thread to say property is affordable in Sydney or they cost $350k to buy in Sydney are one of the category you talked about.. entitled !

    • WhyAmICommenting on 18/05/2024 - 22:55
      +3

      The hardest thing about making 20-30k a month is selling your body to randoms online. Good for her lol.

      • str1k34 on 19/05/2024 - 01:08
        +10

        The hardest thing is counting the money…

      • MrThing on 19/05/2024 - 01:59
        +3

        "hey mummy is this you i am watching on the computer"

        ye nah no thx

        • skittlebrau on 19/05/2024 - 09:56
          +2

          By the time her kids grow up, all porn will be AI generated and the web will be flooded with exponentially more porn anyway.

      • umyeahokay on 19/05/2024 - 09:44

        Selling photographs. Not quite the same thing.

        • WhyAmICommenting on 19/05/2024 - 10:17

          True, but then it can/will leak and be out there for whoever to see. And more money is probably going to those simulating or doing certain activities.

        • cfuse on 19/05/2024 - 14:27

          The real money is always in the whales, and in this case the whales will want prostitution.

      • justworld on 19/05/2024 - 13:48
        +1

        Or go to uni, get a job that pays the same or more, and can still pay you after you turn 30.

        • cfuse on 19/05/2024 - 14:36
          +1

          She is probably dumb as a rock, but cunning enough to recognise that selling herself is skill free and doesn't require any qualifications.

          If she stays off the drugs and doesn't do anything dumb with her money then she could easily invest enough to ensure that she never has to work a day in her life after 30.

          There are plenty of problems that come from being a harlot but earning potential isn't one of them.

          • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 21:45

            @cfuse: She'll be doing that by age 25 at her current rate of earning.

    • tsunamisurfer on 19/05/2024 - 00:27
      +4

      I am ashamed of other men.

      They will part with money for anything

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 21:47
        +1

        Morons of both genders will always be easily parted from their money.

        It's just a fact of life.

    • umoddbro on 19/05/2024 - 10:55

      Whats the lifespan of an onlyfans career? one or two years? Then what happens next?

      • capslock on 19/05/2024 - 12:07

        Retire? Buy a business?

        • umoddbro on 19/05/2024 - 12:16
          +1

          Let's say they make 30k per month for two years…. Not exactly retirement money… And surely someone who has an onlyfans will know how to run a business.

          • capslock on 19/05/2024 - 14:56

            @umoddbro: That's $720k of income earned in 2 years which will take an average person 8 years to earn. They will be able to afford to live a life of leisure for 6 years - plenty of time to learn another skill or trade.

      • dvsbastard on 19/05/2024 - 16:48
        +2

        Then you move over to OnlyGrans.

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 21:48

        Most of them are gonna be replaced by AI thots inside of 5 years.

        They better extract all the money from their financial cucks while they still can.

    • Cluster on 19/05/2024 - 14:11
      +6

      It's worth mentioning that the vast majority of Only Fans girls make very little money for selling their dignity. The market is saturated, and the media only reports on the extreme outlier cases of people making vast wads of money. It's like the media will report on the 25 year old with eight properties and how you can do it too.

      • cfuse on 19/05/2024 - 14:29
        +3

        Their dignity is being sold at the market rate. The market will price something of little value appropriately.

        • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 21:59
          -1

          It already does.

          Only a fraction of the top 1% of Onlythot accounts earn anything more than $10K a year & the platform takes 20% to 30% of that, then the thot's pay tax on what's left. Add on to that they have to spend more time spamming advert's on social media and re-creating new accounts to get around being persistently banned for advertising, than they spend whoring themselves out on OF - their earning basically nothing for their time.

          The average active OF account earns less than $5 a month. They may as well just play the lotto each week instead and just work a checkout at Colesworths in the mean time. At least working at Colesworths isn't going to limit their employability or limit their personal partner-options for the rest of their lives.

    • cfuse on 19/05/2024 - 14:28

      How much does a stealth onlyfans ad cost these days?

    • alexdagr8 on 19/05/2024 - 21:14

      I considered it (only fans) and realised that I’m middle aged man with a gut… and because of that it wouldn’t be fair to the young women that rely on the platform for income. They just can’t compete with all of me. So I’ve held off the platform for now..

      • May4th on 20/05/2024 - 10:20

        I'm sure there's enough kinks for that to go around to sustain a reasonable lifestyle

    • whyisave on 21/05/2024 - 02:32

      Not in a couple of years, when wAIfus become more accessible.

    • May4th on 24/05/2024 - 14:50

      stunning and brave.

  • capslock on 18/05/2024 - 22:59
    +10

    Yeah I don't get it either. Average house prices should not be this high given average wages. Yet here we are.

    • Ade99 on 19/05/2024 - 07:45
      +2

      supply and demand (in certain locations) ……

    • smartazz104 on 19/05/2024 - 13:05
      +4

      Once households started having dual incomes, it was game over. Then you get competition from immigrants, overseas investors and people who earn a lot for doing very little…

    • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 22:01
      +2

      With the state of supply and demand our current government have caused, house prices are actually under-valued at the moment.

      It's only going up from here too, unless we have a change of federal and state governments.

      My wife has family spread out through Europe and it's already been the case for multiple generations now that home loans for even sheeet Soviet-style block apartments within an hour of any major city are usually multi-generational loans in terms of their repayment time and cost. They come to Australia and can't believe how good we have it, living in big "new" 70-yr old brick houses with our own back yards.

    • whyisave on 21/05/2024 - 02:42

      US Fed Reserve & Central Banks knew when they were printing money during covid years,
      that all they had to do is raise interest rates, to recoup the money back.
      They raised rates, … so the whole world follows.

      That process of "returning" the money back through interest,
      is what keeps the hamsters running inside the wheel…a little bit faster,
      because the goalposts have shifted, eg. a $1M house is about $2M now in some places.

      Debt is what drives the economy, because it's based around debt,
      ie. the idea of "owing" something to someone….at ALL times.

      I remember seeing a property's contract locally in a suburb here,
      and it showed JimBob gave/sold it to his friend for £1000+
      That was around 1910.
      Fast foward to 2012, and that house sold for $800K.
      So, it took about 100+ years, for that property to go from £1000 —> AU$800K.
      OK, fair enough.
      100 years to get to AU$800K .

      From 2012 - 2024 … I observed that same property to be worth probably $3M now,
      (ie. you can check property reports, etc.),
      ie. that property grew AU$ 2.4M in 'value' or 3 x 100 years of growth… all inside 10 years.

      That's not even a gradual rise, with a gentle slope.

      This shows that the whole Anglo-Capitalist economic system is imploding on itself,
      and they learnt nothing from their greed from the 2008 GFC,
      so that's why you see a constant stream of news of conflict and wars,
      because all banks that finance wars,
      uses crises (or actually funds them) as it's their way to "balance" their books,
      eg. through lending to both sides of the conflict
      (ie. the weapons companies and the construction companies who will rebuild a country).

  • AustriaBargain on 18/05/2024 - 23:45
    +8

    My college roommate has given a property by his parents, and a second unit that he had to let visiting family use if they wanted. So my best advice is for your dad to own a large medical practice. Seems to be a surefire way to get you multiple properties. He showed me his trust once, named after him. Had millions in it. He told me he was just studying nursing to placate his dad into thinking he was interested in medicine, until he could inherit it all.

    • MS Paint on 18/05/2024 - 23:55
      +4

      Wow! Your roommate was Gaylord Myron Focker. Get outta town.

    • ribze1 on 20/05/2024 - 13:55

      Lucky [Intensive English Language] college friend of yours. Unless you meant 'uni'?

    • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 22:37
      -1

      GP practices are indeed an excellent investment to get involved with, even if you aren't a GP. It's what I've done with my brother. He's a paediatric specialist working out of a general practice facility with other GP's and specialists. My background is property law, but I invested into the business when they begun.

      A private practice will have a near infinite demand for it's entire existence as a business as Australian's are becoming more lazy, fat, unhealthy and entitled by the generation & it's only getting worse with the culture being imprinted on kids by our current educators and news/media outlets. The goal is to secure a loan to purchase the commercial property the business is going to operate in as an ownership group/trust, then repay the building loan from rent that your separately incorporated medical practice pays for. It'll take about 12 years to repay the building loan while operating as a medium sized GP practice, then you just expand the practice into near-by areas and repeat the process again with new buildings, bringing in additional doctors or investors as you see fit to grow the business. The GP's and those involved through the practice earn a great level of income over the years from the practice itself, but the real payout is the rent that the commercial property generates for everyone (or the sale value of it down the line if everyone chooses to sell up and go their own way).

      • whyisave on 21/05/2024 - 02:51
        +1

        Do you mind sharing which city this was in ?
        I could even send a PM.

        I'm interested in what you're selling
        and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

        • infinite on 21/05/2024 - 11:04
          -1

          I'm not selling anything.

          I own a part share in a small number of practices in NSW. Soon to be expanding to SA with a new branch as well.

          • whyisave on 21/05/2024 - 19:24
            +1

            @infinite:

            I'm not selling anything.

            No, no…that. is. the. joke.

            It's just an (in)famous Internet saying,…or wanting to 'subscribe' to your ideas.

            I own a part share in a small number of practices in NSW.

            This is what I wanted to know more about,
            but you've said it's NSW, so I have some idea now.

            PS:
            I did not neg you.

            • infinite on 21/05/2024 - 20:14

              @whyisave: It's fine, internet points and votes are meaningless.

              • whyisave on 21/05/2024 - 22:14
                +1

                @infinite: It can affect reputations,
                eg. eBay ratings ,
                but yes…not where there are OzB pot-stirrers !

  • Subere on 19/05/2024 - 00:34
    +17

    This is not their first house. They are constantly flipping houses every 5 years because of the increase in value until they can afford where they want to live. Live in those places and you don't pay CGT.
    They're prob dropping 1M into the deposit.

    • chickenchipsgravy on 19/05/2024 - 11:47
      +2

      you may avoid CGT but if you're churning every 5 yrs, you're being (profanity) by the state Govco stamp duty, f'sure

    • JIMB0 on 19/05/2024 - 12:11
      +5

      This strategy works well if you buy an old dump and fix it up in your spare time while living there. Then sell it and buy another run down house in a better area. It's like working tax free.

      Downsides are you're always living in a construction site which can be hard with a wife and kids.

  • p1 ama on 19/05/2024 - 01:16
    +12

    crime ridden suburbs on the outskirts of Melbourne or Sydney ?

    As someone who's lived in the outer suburbs of Melbourne my entire life from childhood into adulthood, you are a closed-minded bigot and part of the problem.

    • Cherry12 on 19/05/2024 - 13:42
      +1

      Agree, but that's part of the problem, many people don't want to compromise. I know people who have average income jobs and prefer renting a shoebox in the city than moving to outer Melbourne suburbs and buy.

      • p1 ama on 19/05/2024 - 14:30
        +1

        I know people who have average income jobs and prefer renting a shoebox in the city than moving to outer Melbourne suburbs and buy.

        Which is understandable - I'm sure there are plenty of valid reasons why one may wish to live in a shoebox in the inner city - reduced travel time, closer to friends and families, availability of amenities. In fact, that's how most people in cities around the world live.

        However, labelling suburbs on the outskirts of Melbourne and Sydney as "crime ridden" is laughable.

        • SydBoy on 19/05/2024 - 21:34
          -1

          Nothing laughable in there .

          Go checkout st Mary, my Druitt in Sydney or even Bankstown.. !

          • p1 ama on 19/05/2024 - 21:54
            +7

            @SydBoy: How about looking at some statistics instead of making dumb-dumb assumptions?

            https://redsuburbs.com.au/suburbs/bankstown/

            Now, how about a trendier suburb, maybe Bondi Junction?

            https://redsuburbs.com.au/suburbs/bondi-junction/

            Which suburb has higher crime rates?

            I'm not making an argument "for crime" - obviously crime is bad, however, crime is also everywhere.

            This idea that somehow the outer suburbs (or more realistcally, immigrant suburbs) are crime-infested is a long-running political stunt. The more conservative side of politics has always found it difficult to find in-roads in lower-class, more immigrant heavy outer suburbs. This is no surprise, these voters care more about economic issues, which are naturally more aligned with the left side of politics.

            The only way that conservatives can try and find support in these areas is to drum up these myths of danger and crime, with the underlying sub-tones being that "your community is dangerous, vote for us, and we'll fix it up". It's just a way of buying support without delivering anything for the people in these areas.

        • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 22:40
          +2

          However, labelling suburbs on the outskirts of Melbourne and Sydney as "crime ridden" is laughable.

          In many of the areas they are describing, that is just a fact. Unfortunately some specific places have just attracted certain groups of immigrants that brought their backwards third world cultures with them that aren't at all compatible with Australian customs, lifestyle and laws. Not all of them are like that, but those that are have been allowed to move in large numbers together to those places for the specific purpose of being able to continue living the lifestyles they did in their places of origin that caused the very problems they are fleeing from as economic migrants, by taking advantage of what Australia has to offer them financially through our tax payer funded government & welfare services.

          • p1 ama on 21/05/2024 - 09:33
            +1

            @infinite:

            In many of the areas they are describing, that is just a fact.

            So where are the statistics and the numbers? How can you say something is "just a fact", whilst going on to provide no facts and just hypothesising on what may be happening?

            Not saying that you are wrong - just that none of what you are saying is actually factual.

            Unfortunately some specific places have just attracted certain groups of immigrants that brought their backwards third world cultures with them that aren't at all compatible with Australian customs, lifestyle and laws.

            Which places? Which certain groups of immigrants? Which certain cultures aren't compatible with Australian customs, lifestyle and laws? Be specific with the facts.

            Not all of them are like that

            So what percentage are? Is it 0.5%, 1%, 99%?

            those that are have been allowed to move in large numbers together to those places

            Which places? What numbers are considered "large"?

            purpose of being able to continue living the lifestyles they did in their places of origin that caused the very problems they are fleeing from as economic migrants

            What are their places of origin, and what lifestyles are they bringing, and what problems is this causing?

            taking advantage of what Australia has to offer them financially through our tax payer funded government & welfare services

            What makes them "taking advantage" of government and welfare services? What exactly is the bar for "taking advantage"? Obviously government services exist to be used, so is everyone who uses them "taking advantage"?

    • cfuse on 19/05/2024 - 14:39

      Since when do you get internet access in prison?

  • tonka on 19/05/2024 - 02:47
    +1

    People get a mortgage and pay it off over their lifetime, depending on a rise in income as they get older to make it one day feasible. The same as it has always been done.

    • SlickMick on 19/05/2024 - 15:00
      +2

      and if sufficient cashflow they might remortgage and buy a 2nd with the equity, so next generation sorted.

    • mrvaluepack on 19/05/2024 - 16:27
      +1

      Those 20 years ago didnt have to pay more than 10 times their income for a house near the city.

      • ZloyKrys on 19/05/2024 - 16:37

        yeah sure and 200 years ago you'd probably even get an acreage by the bay. Compare the population then and now, check how many new cities were established since 20 years ago (big fat zero?) and understand the concept of finite resources of land in existing city centres, surely in a market economy these blocks are competed for so the prices could only go up.

        • Antikythera on 19/05/2024 - 18:56
          +3

          1860 get off the boat, walk up the Yarra River to the Diamond Creek, follow that a few kilometres toward Kinglake.

          Put down pegs to mark out 10 acres and you can keep the land for free as long as you turn it into a farm.

      • tonka on 19/05/2024 - 17:42
        -1

        Yep, they did. Unless you count 40kms away as close to city, then it was six times, for a fifty year old, original un-renovated, 3 bed fibro, one bath on noisy road.

        • mrvaluepack on 19/05/2024 - 19:28
          +1

          No they did not, check your facts and stop making shit up.

          • tonka on 19/05/2024 - 20:34
            -2

            @mrvaluepack: Check my facts? I have contracts of sale for proof? Unless you want to specify a freaken city and annual salary you're the one just talking gobblygook.

            • mrvaluepack on 20/05/2024 - 05:58
              +1

              @tonka: Australia as a whole, the average wage and salary income in 2006-07 was $42,0811. Data from ABS.

              Based on the available data, a rough estimate for the median house price in Melbourne in 2004 would be around AUD 250,000 to AUD 300,000. This estimate is derived from historical trends and available public data sources.

              https://data.melbourne.vic.gov.au/explore/dataset/median-hou…

              https://www.proptechnow.com.au/wp-content/uploads/uploads/ho…

              Your turn? Unless you are the one spewing gobblygook…

              • tonka on 20/05/2024 - 08:01
                -1

                @mrvaluepack: 'Melbourne' to me does not equate to 'near the city'. No point comparing 'average' wages to 'median' housing. In Sydney it has been well over a mil for any house near the city for for a long time. Give me stats in a 10km range of cbd and average price or median wages if you're trying to back your point. Also Corelogic data shows median Capital prices closer to $500k in 2007, which hits your 10x metric.

      • richrichie on 20/05/2024 - 11:09
        +2

        People like to complain and compare about our affordability vs a generation before us, but it is not like we can turn back the time. The cost to build a new house is now more expensive, so it is very unlikely we'll ever go back to the old days.

        And if we like to compare, what about the technology advancement that we enjoy now vs what they have in their days? Remote working is now more readily available, opportunities to earn income online, improved communication to stay connected to family members that live far away, etc etc. My point is, we live in a different era, and sadly, we have to play with the new rules.

        • tonka on 20/05/2024 - 12:00

          My parents bought in the 70's, and I remember the price of some things was outrageously expensive compared to today. Travel and electronics in particular. I've got some old Atari cartridges and prices on them are $100, so half a weeks pay. A TV set was maybe a month's pay. Same for fridge or washing machine. They were things you took a personal loan for.

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 22:58

        Those 20 years ago weren't buying houses near the city………

    • AustriaBargain on 20/05/2024 - 15:11
      -1

      But do house prices just keep rising until only the millionaires of the world can afford it? What’s the endgame of this scheme. There’s a hard limit on how much renters can pay and that is their income level.

      • infinite on 20/05/2024 - 23:03
        +1

        As cities grow, so do the reach of the suburbs & then outer-suburbs, satellite suburbs & so-on. Business and resources expand outwards with them. Every new generation starts a bit further out & works their way in, their kids then get a better base to grow from and move forward. Most Australians have clearly never worked or lived in bigger places overseas, if they don't know how this functions. There are the equivalent of outer-rim satellite suburbs in other places around the world that dwarf major Australian cities. They all get along just fine & have way more opportunities than we do.

        • AustriaBargain on 20/05/2024 - 23:14
          -1

          And then what, outer slums, away from the opportunities where all the wealth is concentrated? How are we all meant to have a fair shake of the sauce bottle when 95% of the sauce is in the middle of a sea of million dollar houses. And if the housing bubble can be controlled by increasing supply, why not just pop it? If we started increasing supply and controlling migration 10 years ago, there could be no more housing bubble today. 10 years should be enough time to import enough materials and construction workers. 10 years is enough time to train our own young people how to do it.

          • infinite on 21/05/2024 - 10:58
            +1

            @AustriaBargain:

            And then what, outer slums, away from the opportunities where all the wealth is concentrated?

            Wealth is mostly generated, it's not static & stored. It can be generated anywhere, any time, by literally tens of thousands of different methods. Australia's most valuable companies do their work 100's and sometimes 1000's of KM's away from any major city via resource management & mining.

            Greek, Polish, Japanese, Italian, Vietnamese, German, Chinese, Irish and countless other nationalities/ethnicities have all been moving to Australia for any number of generations now and they've all literally moved here with nothing but the clothes on their back - many escaping from the horrific results of civil war, communism & socialism. They've all moved to what you describe as "outer slums" around Australia and in less than a single generation have worked their asses off to put their kids in a position to get an education, establish secure employment, create families of their own and become first home buyers. How on earth are you in here pretending like you don't have opportunities?

            The problem here isn't that you "aren't getting a fair shake of the sauce bottle", it's that you clearly haven't even attempted to shake of the sauce bottle yourself.

            • AustriaBargain on 21/05/2024 - 11:16
              -1

              @infinite: But even mining we are being shafted on, compared to countries like Norway. We keep what, 22% of our mineral value, maybe less. In Norway they keep over 70%. We are giving away our sauce for free. That sauce could have gone to the bottles of people all over the country. Just imagine a poor boy in a single income household in a poor area. He squeezes his sauce bottle and only a faint red liquidy spray comes out, the sauce bottle was mostly emptied before it was even handed to him. Are you going to tell that boy that he isn't shaking his empty bottle hard enough?

              • infinite on 21/05/2024 - 20:22
                +1

                @AustriaBargain: How are you being shafted? WA keeps 100% of their mining export income and they aren't even required to pay GST to the Federal Govt.

                Also, the boy in the scenario you just mentioned needs to do nothing else other than continue his free schooling paid for by the tax payer & once he finishes, he can go and earn bank in any of the 100's of available mining jobs you just discussed.

                Once again, the only issue here is you projecting your lack of motivation on others. Generations of poor people from single income families have had absolutely no issues at all finishing public school, then working hard, establishing careers for themselves and forming a family & becoming first home owners in affordable outer suburbs. Every poor kid in Australia has the opportunities and capacity to have happy and successful lives - they just need to work hard and be sensible with their finances like anyone else.

                • AustriaBargain on 21/05/2024 - 20:25
                  -2

                  @infinite: Free schooling is the opiate of the masses. So why do boys from private schools end up with more sauce in adulthood than boys from poor suburb public schools? They should all end up with the same amount of sauce if all it takes is a free education (I'm assuming private school kids have their parents pay for their schooling). And what's your excuse, why don't you have a giant sauce bottle by now worth 20 million? Did you drop out of your free school?

                  • infinite on 22/05/2024 - 22:17
                    -1

                    @AustriaBargain:

                    Free schooling is the opiate of the masses. So why do boys from private schools end up with more sauce in adulthood than boys from poor suburb public schools?

                    Because public schools teachers and administrators are a dumping ground for the mentally ill who work in the public service. That of course combined with the writers of the public education system being more interested in how to push political agendas and alphabet soup indoctrination on primary school kids than they are just providing a good quality education.

                    The private sector doesn't have to worry about that because they hire people based off merit and experience, they couldn't care less about your skin colour or imaginary genders. So yes, of course you will be getting a better education in the the private, religious and independent schools. Even home schooled kids are coming out way ahead of public school kids, currently.

                    The main difference of course though is not money or power, it's that independent schools have a high density of parents who value teaching their kids discipline, critical thinking, STEM skills, how to be motivated, physical education and fitness for life, finance skills & functional life skills. Those are really core skills and values anyone in any field of employment or life will need for success & those are all things the public system educators are not interested in teaching kids any more.

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