Is Anyone Even Buying Second Hand Teslas?

MaxPower1982 on 07/05/2024 - 11:30
Last edited 07/05/2024 - 12:58 by 1 other user

Have been tracking new Tesla price drops for Model Ys and also keeping an eye on second hand stock on CarSales. Though I see some price adjustments by private sellers, most of them are still priced too high for 2022, 2023 models with only a few thousand dollars price difference compared to new stock. Also under Price Insights on CarSales I can see that the cars have been repeatedly discounted and have been for sale for months (some of them even since 2022).

Not a EV hater but wondering is there really a market for second hand Teslas? The price that the sellers want in my view are too high when for few thousand more a brand new one is available and there are no long wait times. Just like a couple year old mobile phone, am i correct to assume that people want the latest model even though nothing much has changed (maybe Tesla compute hardware)….

Will be great to hear from folks who have bought second hand Tesla and how much did they save compared to a new model.

Automotive Car Electric Vehicle SUV Tesla Inc

Comments

      • ZloyKrys on 08/05/2024 - 12:02
        +1

        It's not worth it as you can't buy used exGST unless it's from a dealer

        • May4th on 08/05/2024 - 15:28

          depends on your plan - I would prefer doing a 1 year lease and then keeping the car (and selling or refinance), if I keep the car the I will be paying the GST then on the balloon anyway just minus the 35% depreciation, so if you can get a good price then it's still worthwhile.

          • apple2016 on 08/05/2024 - 16:54

            @May4th: You can get used, but the NL saving for used vs new is not enough to convince most buyers these days.

  • kalithreaver on 08/05/2024 - 10:48
    +8

    We just bought a new model Y. Would have been fine buying an appropriately priced used car but the current price of all used cars are bullshit overpriced.

    I'm not paying almost full price for a car that's 3 years old and done 60000ks. i would rather pay a little more for a longer warranty and less ks.

    • kaleidoscope on 08/05/2024 - 11:27
      +3

      Used car market is artificially inflated by owners that think they'll get anything they list it under. Most of them get sold for way less. Just because it's listed at a ridiculous price doesn't mean it'll get sold at that price. Only a sucker would pay such insane money without doing their due diligence and if they don't, they deserve to get ripped off imo

      • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:24

        That is the problem with our society now. Full of chancers. (Over advertise, low ball offers). All driven by social media (because influencers make money off you watching).

        Productivity is down because everyone is spending time trying to actually get to a narrow band where they can come to agreement on price. Not advertised a 5 yo Corolla for $30k and a low baller coming in with a $15k offer. Takes a long time to get both of them to be realistic when it once was getting only 1 person to be more realistic.

  • nizzkid on 08/05/2024 - 11:06

    I do wonder if all the cars on carsales are actually real??
    Or perhaps there are some fake cars that are listed with stupidly high prices in an attempt to pump up the market.
    I only wonder this as some of the cars I have in my watch list have been there for upto two years in some cases with no price drop at all.

    • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:25

      New drop shippers. You happy to buy an overpriced car I'll find a yard that will sell it for me for $2k less. Great idea I'll pump out a course tonight and charge $499 per person.

  • tessel on 08/05/2024 - 12:41
    +1

    Check out the Nissan Leaf prices. 10+ years old with a realistic range of less than 100km. Very interesting prices people are asking.

    • plmko on 08/05/2024 - 20:38

      It's because the Nissan Leaf can be refurbished for $10k-15k, you have an EV that can run 300km for less than $20k.

      • tessel on 09/05/2024 - 08:32

        Interesting. Point me in the direction of anywhere that does it for $10k?

  • coregti on 08/05/2024 - 12:58
    +3

    I've been tracking 2022-23 Tesla prices on carsales as well. Many are starting above 50k then lowering to just below 50k then 45-46k which seem to be the price point they sell at. I recently inspected a 2022 model 3 rwd at a dealer which was for sale at about 48k. When I suggested 45k he said it was unlikely he'll reduce to that price. I notice the car is still for sale. I'm hoping for a 40-45k price point but not there yet. I do note that at they're current price it's equivalent to a 2022 Toyota Camry . I already own a model 3 and previously owned a Camry and can say that the model 3 is a way better car.

    • vorsprung on 09/05/2024 - 08:14

      Red book agrees with those amounts too.

      Private sale price for 2022 RWD: $44,300 - $48,200

    • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:28

      The model 3 is a way more expensive car from new.

      You can't expect a $40k car to be same as a $60k car. That is like spending $40k on a bathroom and getting $60k of value, I haven't even seen a ponzi scheme that gives that kind of return. Scams maybe.

  • SteveD on 08/05/2024 - 13:35
    -3

    I wouldn't even buy a new one forget buying a second hand Tesla.

    • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 14:00

      Apart from who the boss is, do you have any misgiving about the cars?

  • rickdwp on 08/05/2024 - 14:43
    +2

    No one is buying used Tesla's because no one is selling used Tesla's - they've delivered well over 30,000 Model Ys and there is a grand total of 125 on carsales. Meanwhile Hyundai have delivered abit over 1,000 Ioniq 5s and there is 58 for sale.

    The people that are selling are likely either underwater, ordered multiple cars thinking they could "flip" them or are delusional and think they should get basically what they paid.

    Regardless of price drops before COVID it was a pretty well established fact that you lost 20-30% of a cars vale in the first year. High inflation and COVID have distorted this to an extent, but right now you can buy most cars with little to wait times and the used market is completely flooded was people look to offload high depreciation assets that don't provide them with housing

    • D3HUN on 09/05/2024 - 07:32
      +1

      …and current Tesla owners on expiring leases might sell it through Tesla's own certified-pre-owned programme when getting their next one, rather than playing around on Carsales.

  • bigticket on 08/05/2024 - 15:21
    -1

    I don't see the rationale in buying EV's. If its to save the planet from climate change, certainly not. The cost to the planet by mining ores to manufacture the batteries for EV's is vastly higher than that of ICE vehicles. Environmental break even points may not even be realised as the energy mix is predominately fossils fuels ie, coal.

    The same applies to financial break even points; the initial cost offset will take many years to claw back. The market demand for EV's has tanked (new car prices are falling in response) and rightly so as many consumers realise the hype is just that, hype.

    The Tesla second hand market is saturated due to owners attempting to offload their vehicles after realising their mistake, but are somewhat delusional by asking high prices in a saturated new and second hand market in an attempt to minimise their losses. EV's are disposable type cars, much like many other items in modern society and are clearly overpriced whether new or old. They are not easily repairable and if battery replacement required, its a write off as the battery forms a large chunk of the cars value.

    Even a minor accident can lead to unknown battery integrity that is currently undetectable by any form of inspection. Second hand buyers are hopefully aware of this fact and seriously factor it in when trying to save money. The exorbitant second hand asking prices for Teslas will eventually plummet due to financial market forces, and more importantly due to the unknown battery condition of second hand EV's.

    • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 16:29
      +5

      The cost to the planet by mining ores to manufacture the batteries for EV's is vastly higher than that of ICE vehicles.

      It is higher, but the cradle-to-grave analysis shows that EV's CO2 cost is better than ICE by 2 to 8 years of driving, depending on how much you drive and how green your energy source is.

      The same applies to financial break even points; the initial cost offset will take many years to claw back.

      This was my hesitation around EV when it first became commercially available 3-4 years ago. Even though I liked it, I didn't see it as financially worthwhile. Novated lease with FBT-exemption, if appropriate and applicable, changes this significantly. For me, when all relevant costs are considered for 5-year ownership, I got a "free upgrade" from my previous 25,000 dollar petrol car to a 81,400 dollar electric car. Depending on how much you drive, what you currently drive, your tax bracket, your job situation, etc, NL undoes a lot of these financial barrier for EV. In fact if you drive HUGE amount (say more than 20,000km), there is already a case to make for EV even without NL. Also, if you are able to go for a cheaper ones (many can be had for 40,000 now) that will help with the financial aspect too.

      They are not easily repairable and if battery replacement required, its a write off as the battery forms a large chunk of the cars value.

      Fair. This is reflected in higher insurance premium - with NL it is also discounted but without NL it should form part of one's calculation.

      The market demand for EV's has tanked (new car prices are falling in response) and rightly so as many consumers realise the hype is just that, hype.

      I am not sure EV sales are actually falling. The new car price falling is due to cheaper battery, economy of scale plus competition between multiple manufacturers, not because no one wants it.

      • apple2016 on 08/05/2024 - 17:03

        In fact if you drive HUGE amount (say more than 20,000km), there is already a case to make for EV even without NL.

        High kms, would mean you are spending $$$ at supercharging. ICE would be more economical than cost of supercharging these days.

        • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 17:21
          +1

          Not necessarily. I know a doctor who drives up to 200km per day working at regional areas while staying in Melbourne suburb, and he simply charges at home. He has already done >250,000km in 4 or 5 years. He also charges a bit at work for free but he could have done all the charging from home too.

          Using a wall connector (can be roughly 40-50km per hour for single phase or 60-70km per hour for three phase electricity), you can easily do 350-400km of driving per day all from your home electricity charger, if that's your use case.

      • bigticket on 08/05/2024 - 17:39
        -1

        It is higher, but the cradle-to-grave analysis shows that EV's CO2 cost is better than ICE by 2 to 8 years of driving, depending on how much you drive and how green your energy source is.

        These analyses are invariably funded by those pushing EV uptake and can not be soley relied on. Generally speaking though, the average km and energy mixes are not favourable. Cradle to grave analysis focuses soley on carbon emissions and there is so much more to it.

        NL undoes a lot of these financial barrier for EV. In fact if you drive HUGE amount (say more than 20,000km), there is already a case to make for EV even without NL. Also, if you are able to go for a cheaper ones (many can be had for 40,000 now) that will help with the financial aspect too.

        Is that an apples to apples comparison. What is the difference if the upgrade was to an ICE vehicle costing say 50k. I suspect you would be better off with an ICE unless your km's are high.

        I am not sure EV sales are actually falling. The new car price falling is due to cheaper battery, economy of scale plus competition between multiple manufacturers, not because no one wants it.

        Its a simply supply and demand. Yes, its true competition is a factor, especially from China. China is already producing substantially cheaper EV's and in a few years the quality with surpass other manufactures. In reality the sales of EV's is slowly declining, and yes some people do want them, but the demand is lower.

        • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 17:42

          About the NL cost, check out my spreadsheet.

          https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CtpBXmuhRW3HrBjqJqnP…

          Yes it is fully apple with apple. There is a bit of controversy though as to how much an EV is worth in 5 years, I have used roughly 50% of new in this calculation but people can modify this for their own calculation.

          Personally my deal is “a free upgrade from 25,000 dollar worth of 4-year-old Mazda 6 to a 81,400 dollar worth of EV”. I go through the exact cashflow, asset and liability analysis in the spreadsheet.

          Granted I have a stable job on top tax bracket therefore stand to benefit the most from this, however you would be surprised that even at lower tax bracket and shorter lease period it may still end up advantage EV say if you are comparing a 40k BYD dolphin vs a new Toyota.

        • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 17:45
          +1

          As for the EV vs ICE’s footprint, yes there are additional minerals involved, but I wouldn’t say it is at all advantage ICE when you consider the global geopolitical concentration of fossil fuel in Middle East. People like to forget about all the issues with fossil fuel extraction when they are drilling into the issues of rare metal mines.

        • us3rnam3tak3n on 14/05/2024 - 10:53

          In reality the sales of EV's is slowly declining, and yes some people do want them, but the demand is lower.

          Not sure where you're getting your figures from. BEV sales are steadily growing in Australia - Q1'24 sales were triple that of Q1'22.

          Source:
          https://data.aaa.asn.au/ev-index/

    • surg3on on 08/05/2024 - 23:38
      +1

      And the cost of mining all that oil for fuel is…. Zero? No.

    • surg3on on 08/05/2024 - 23:46

      I actually own an EV. BYD atto 3
      - charge at home. Cheap. About 10c on average. Solar is great.
      - Comprehensive insurance is similar to my Hyundai hybrid.

      I would never recommend an EV to someone who can't charge at home. If they can it's a no brainer unless they enjoy funding dealer service departments and Saudi Arabia

      • FrugalFranky on 10/05/2024 - 13:11

        Hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions:

        What size solar do you have (and battery?)
        Do you try to only charge on sunny days when your solar is pumping? or do you not care as much?
        Is there a way to "smart charge" your EV, so when ex: your home is using 2kw, solar is generating 7kw, you can send 5kw to the car. As opposed to drawing more than 5kw from your energy, meaning you need to draw from the grid?

        (I have a 10kw solar system no battery, looking at an EV very soon)

        • surg3on on 10/05/2024 - 15:35
          +1

          Options for smart solar charging are many. Id recommend one that your solar system supports if that's an option (it probably isn't). I have the Zappi which slows down and speeds up the charge depending on the solar systems output (it uses CT clamps to measure power in/out). Make sure your installer is confident with whatever system you pick as it was a PITA getting it all working on my three phase home as the installer sucked and I was stuck googling how to figure out where the clamps were supposed to go. Single phase home or newish home, probably wont be a problem.

          Combine the smart charger that goes from 1kw to 7kw with the timer your car will have and you are golden. If you want to go cheap you might be better off just plugging it in to a dumb charger and setting the in car timer to 10am to 4pm. Im a perfectionist and a nerd though so the smart charger is the way I went just because I wanted to stick it to Ausgrid as much as I could.

          If its been raining all week you hit the 'go fast now button' if you are worried about the cars charge level.

          If you are out all day all week solar charge isnt going to work well! Maybe switch to offpeak/peak times and use the cars timer or just give up and use the trickle charger that comes with the car as overnight ends up being a lot.

          P.s. sorry my writing skills suck.
          PPS. 10kw solar. 9kw battery. Battery sucks up the juice before the car gets it.

          • FrugalFranky on 11/05/2024 - 13:14

            @surg3on: Amazing, thank you for your insight. I've become a bit of a solar nerd since i've gotten it installed, so will definitely look into all of this!

        • vorsprung on 14/05/2024 - 18:40

          Depending on what EV you buy and how much of an IT nerd you are…

          I do this with my Tesla via Home Assistant. I’ve just got the charger it came with, on 15A, and an automation in Home Assistant that adjusts the charging amps every 30s via Tesla’s API to consume only excess solar.

          ChargeHQ basically does the same thing, however it costs money and for my Sungrow inverter it’s not realtime enough.

    • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:33
      -1

      I don't see the rationale in buying EV's. If its to save the planet from climate change, certainly not.

      Would work in narrow user case. You can charge during the day (peak solar), you have solar at home (surplus into grid + no battery). You also need to have an EV battery that lasts (Tesla right now). They figure out a way to recycle everything and cheap way to move the long lasting battery into a new body and upgrade modular bits (people are going to argue with me on this one but think you can replace parts extremely easily and cheaply not take 5 days at $1k a day of labor cost to replace all the worn out parts, basically new car same battery)

      Problem is if you buy it and use it like the regular person then right now the answer is no.

  • Drakesy on 08/05/2024 - 16:28
    +2

    Given you can buy a decent brand new MG with similar range and a better warranty it's a no brainer. I feel those with Tesla's though aren't exactly skint and can afford to keep them for longer not realising that their prices are a joke (a bit like boomer house owners).

    • kaleidoscope on 08/05/2024 - 21:20
      +1

      people do it because of trend…

    • lachhelix on 08/05/2024 - 23:25
      +1

      You're right @Drakesy, this big brown land, which is sometimes red with bits of green is no place for hipsters in electric vehicles

    • ratoloko on 09/05/2024 - 17:05

      I feel those with Tesla's though aren't exactly skint and can afford to keep them for longer

      When Tesla was the new thing, in the US folks were replacing their Tesla every year to afford having it within warranty.
      That tells you a lot.

    • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:34

      not realising that their prices are a joke

      It is only a joke when they tell people they can't afford it. The millionaire Corolla drive is like… WTF

  • Wasabi Ninja on 08/05/2024 - 17:06
    -2

    Second hand Tesla over 5 years old is such a bad idea. The battery will be cactus in another 5 years and you’ll either have to dump it in the ocean or pay for a new battery $$$
    Tesla guarantees its batteries for eight years.

    • mirz on 08/05/2024 - 20:55

      Spot on, you have to be crazy to buy a 5 years old EV. China is planning to release 100 plus EV model yearly. This will crash secondhand EV market even more.

      • Euphemistic on 08/05/2024 - 23:34
        +3

        Good news. Ill be able to pick up a used one for cheap then.

    • furyou on 08/05/2024 - 22:46

      wait What are you supposed to do with your ev after eight years? Buy new car?

      • Euphemistic on 08/05/2024 - 23:32
        +2

        Well, you could buy a new one but signs are that theyll last 400,000km without too much loss of range.

        • Wasabi Ninja on 09/05/2024 - 11:10

          Im on my second now. I just get a new one every 3 years. But 💯 the Aussie sun in Perth kills the batteries faster than a EV in cooler climates.

          • changyang1230 on 09/05/2024 - 14:17

            @Wasabi Ninja: Hey. Fellow Perthian here. How much faster was your battery degrading?

            • Wasabi Ninja on 09/05/2024 - 14:34
              +1

              @changyang1230: It was already at 86% when I sold it. To get a new battery under warranty it has to be below 70%. Hopefully it hits 70% before 8 years old for the new owner.

          • Euphemistic on 09/05/2024 - 16:06

            @Wasabi Ninja: You mean the heat right? Being under the car they dont get a lot of sun plus they have active temperature management.

            I wonder if yours is typical or normal for higher temps. Pretty sure california isnf a comd place and theres plenty of telsa there.

            • Wasabi Ninja on 09/05/2024 - 20:42

              @Euphemistic: Car sits in direct sunlight at the station. The road is 65°c when it’s 38°C. The year I got it we had a week of 45° days. Love my Tesla’s though. Its not an issue for me as I replace cars every three years. But it’s not good value, I’d never buy a second hand one. Ive got a few cars including a 20 year old tray hilux which just keeps chugging along on one of my properties. That’s been really good value.

            • Wasabi Ninja on 09/05/2024 - 20:56

              @Euphemistic: Seems to be documented. But really no one’s buying a Tesla expecting to get decades out of them. Buy new and upgrade before the warranty expires is the go.

              “The “generally accepted” threshold for accelerated battery degradation is around 86 degrees Fahrenheit (30°C), according to Recurrent.”

              https://fox59.com/automotive/ev-batteries-degrade-faster-in-….

              • Euphemistic on 12/05/2024 - 15:43

                @Wasabi Ninja: We are in the early stage of teslas. Its really only now that the earliest models are getting 'old'. Early adopters are going to turn over vehicles every couple of years looking for the new next best thing, as they do.

                Its a litle bit unknown as to how EVs will handle aging, but well find out in the next few years as more long term owners start to hang onto them or second hand buyers pick them up.

                Elsewhwre i said id be more concenred with other componenets of the vehicle compared to battery and motor. IMO both those parts would be fairly reliable while the rest is probably not as robust as a Toyota.

                Software is also a concern. We all know how phones start to glitch when they get old, then the manufacturer stops updates and the get unreliable. I suspect tesla will be similar. Perfectly good drivetrain, but wont allow you to accelerate when turning left or something equally stupid that makes the car undrivable.

    • Drakesy on 08/05/2024 - 22:56
      -2

      Youre right
      The batteries are only good for 200,000 miles…

  • mirz on 08/05/2024 - 20:53
    +1

    EVs have hardly any secondhand market. These cars are like disposable machines.
    This is not just the case with Tesla but all other brands are going through same dilemma.

    Checkout 2-3 years old Audi Etron and you’ll see the depreciation rate. Main problem is that out of warranty a faulty battery will cost you more than the car’s price.

    Govt is giving all FBT exemptions on EVs on cost of tax payers but for how long this crazy model is sustainable?

    • jason101 on 09/05/2024 - 08:09
      +1

      I’d always assumed the FBT exemption was in place to further incentivise higher income individual taxpayers to buy new evs on novated leases, not so much to benefit those folks but with a longer term govt view to accelerate the supply of used evs at more affordable prices to all the plebeians in 3-4 years time. I’m keen to watch it play out, in 2-3 years time from now I think we’ll see huge volumes of used ex novated lease ev cars hit the market bringing prices down significantly.

      • ZloyKrys on 09/05/2024 - 08:58

        Yes that was the intention the trouble is, it anchors pricing expectations at a fairly low level (comparatively to what can be had outside of FBT-free leases) and middle-class welfare that subsidised $60+k new car purchases does not look great when plebs are struggling with cozzie livs

    • miicah on 09/05/2024 - 12:16

      These cars are like disposable machines.

      Just as disposable as any other luxury euro on a 3 year lease.

      Checkout 2-3 years old Audi Etron and you’ll see the depreciation rate.

      Checkout 2-3 years old Audi SQ8 and you'll see the depreciation rate

      • mini2 on 09/05/2024 - 12:49

        You should have a look at Taycan's…

    • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:38

      Govt is giving all FBT exemptions on EVs on cost of tax payers but for how long this crazy model is sustainable?

      Long as they can get rich migrants into the country to spend money and raising taxes

      Not increasing tax brackets, keep digging raw minerals out of the ground and the global markets believing they will pay back money borrowed and guaranteed by current and future tax payers.

      Politicians are just trading in your future to pretend they are doing something.

  • JimB on 09/05/2024 - 14:21
    +1

    Call me crazy, but I'd be happy to buy a used EV as a run about.

    I would Novate Lease an secondhand one (post 1/7/2022 model according to changyang1230) in a couple of years time.

    As new EVs are becoming cheaper, the used EV would have to be significantly cheaper for me to consider it.

    I still plan to buy one last fun ICE car as a last hurrah.

  • Brick Tamland on 09/05/2024 - 14:54

    The problem with used Tesla's is that most of them have never been serviced either. Tesla market them as service-free but do you really want to buy a car thats never been checked over or has been totally neglected. That and buying a new one can be cheaper with incentives and taxes built in to drive away prices. I think alot of sellers cant stomach the current market value and refuse to price it accordingly. Apparently Hertz in USA cant even sell their used Model 3's at $22k USD. So their used value is closer to around $30k here which is hard to realise when you paid $60k for it.

    • JimB on 09/05/2024 - 15:32
      +1

      "Tesla market them as service-free but do you really want to buy a car thats never been checked over or has been totally neglected'

      EVs don't need preventative servicing like ICE cars.

      Get it inspected via a PPI to see if there are any issues or if it's been abused.

      EVs still need maintenance like cabin filter, wiper and shock absorber replacement. But not replacing it won't further damage the car.

      You don't really service an electric lawn mower the same way you service an petrol powered one.

      I look forward to the 2 year old $30k Tesla's. Better than paying $40k for a new Toyota Yaris/Corolla

      • Brick Tamland on 09/05/2024 - 16:10
        +2

        I don’t think $30k used teslas are that far away. Cheapest ones are just under $40k now. Give it another year and a few more brand new price drops and we will be there.

        The cheap Tesla that has been promised is looking more like it will be a stripped out model 3 too. So that will impact used prices of all 3’s.

  • ratoloko on 09/05/2024 - 16:08

    Of course the price is dropping, who is crazy enough to spend thousand of dollar in a car that:

    1. Isn't yours, Tesla can and will take its features away. It is not a matter of it but when.
      There are cases and more cases of features being removed from the Tesla cars coz f you. It is a computer after all and Tesla just want your money.
      You don't owe it but Tesla owners refuse to see it.
    2. Technology isn't mature enough. Sure, Tesla has somewhat more chargers than other EVs but still not enough and takes ages to charge and you cannot go anywhere without planning the charging stops.
      BONUS: If you are a no-brainer, you can go even cheaper buying a BYD as long as you don't mind its car catching on fire more than Australia bushfire season.

    I wanted an EV so bad before, I test drove a Polestar 2 which I felt in love with but let's be honest, spend 20-30 minutes to charge "some amount of charge" keeping in mind the next stop you have to do?????
    Hybrid is so much better imo, I don't need a car to go from 0-100 within 2s, you can barely go above 60km/s almost anywhere anyway.
    I need a car to go from A to B without charging dramas.

    Lithium stock market that was sky high a year ago, it is worth nothing now.
    Read the room, the push for EV is no longer what it used to be for a reason, dropping the price is a way to get rid of pile of dead waste.

    Ah no less important, EV is just like a smartphone regarding the battery, if you don't take care of the battery properly, it is a RIP.
    I would never buy a second hand EV knowing how some folks have zero idea how to charge things properly.
    Save $10k only to spend $15k later with a new battery, suuuuuuuuuure.

    • JimB on 09/05/2024 - 16:32
      -1

      I think that Plug in Hybrid is the best of both worlds currently.

      Having said that, the risk of buying a EV with a dud battery is no different to buying a ICE that has not been looked after by the previous owner.

      At least you can check the estimated battery life of the EV. Caveat emptor when buying a old ICE.

      The risks of needing to replace the battery of a 10yo EV is less than needing a need engine of a 10yo ICE car.

      I don't own an EV and aren't looking at getting one but I am looking forward to the days of cheap secondhand EVs. Would make for a good runabout.

      • ratoloko on 09/05/2024 - 16:39

        You shouldn't buy an ICE without taking it to a mechanic anyways so that already excludes surprises.

        The ICE I have been looking into, you can find some with logbook with years worth of maintenance documented and etc.
        I would never trust a second hand EV, unless you open it to test every single cell, there is no way of knowing how well it is still.

        • JimB on 09/05/2024 - 16:43
          +1

          So you believe every 2nd hand ICE car as long as it has been logbook serviced and has been inspected won't have future problems?

          Both 2nd hand ICE and EVs may have problems as it gets older.

          • ratoloko on 09/05/2024 - 16:55
            -1

            @JimB: Nothing is perfect, an ICE with logbook ( some since the car was 0KM ) means the car has been looked after so the likehood of you having an engine failure, a transmission failure is very low which are the most expensive parts.

            I am not saying that a car without logbook isn't trustworthy. I bought my 700cc motorcycle from a dude's wife since she wasn't driving and the motorcycle was still like new. Know what to look for, engine noise, gear change, etc.
            My second 2013 700cc motorcycle was the same, bought it from an old couple which had logbook and all since new and it has been flawless since I bought it in 2016 IIRC

            Like I said, have common sense and an ICE is a must take to a mechanic no matter what.
            I trust 2nd ICE far more than 2nd EV, you can easily identify a timing bomb before taking an ICE to a mechanic.
            You cannot do what with an EV other than trust the system showing you that everything is "health"

            Yeah, sure…… but that is me, it is okay with you don't agree :)

            • JimB on 09/05/2024 - 22:45

              @ratoloko: I think we’ll agree to disagree

    • Euphemistic on 09/05/2024 - 16:56
      +4

      I think id rather have an EV from someone who has no idea than an ICE someone who has no idea but just blindly followed the service schedule.

      • ratoloko on 09/05/2024 - 17:00
        -4

        I think id rather have an EV from someone who has no idea

        Like some Tesla folks having to replace the entire brake system because they were using the EV motor to do the breaking because they didn't know better??
        Which caused the entire brake system to basically be useless/jammed. Okay then :)
        In case you don't know, a Tesla brake system isn't a bargain.

        • Euphemistic on 09/05/2024 - 17:59
          +1

          WTF are you talking about? I see you have been fed plenty of lies from anti EV mobs.

          oure supposed to use regenerative braking. You are meant to use the electric motor to slow because it generate electricity to use when you want to move off again. Ita one of the big benefits of electric cars.

          Tesla brakes are jist the same as any other car, except for the electric brake booster.

          • ratoloko on 09/05/2024 - 18:50
            -3

            @Euphemistic: You clearly didn't read a thing!!!

            Anybody knows about the regenerative breaking, but folks are using the motor and the motor only to "break/stop" the car meaning the actual breaking system isn't being used at all jamming the whole system which on a Tesla isn't cheap.

            • changyang1230 on 09/05/2024 - 19:01

              @ratoloko: A brake pad that is used less will get jammed?

              That’s a bizarre argument. Can you show us an exact source of this story?

            • Euphemistic on 09/05/2024 - 19:18

              @ratoloko:

              • brakes.

              And no, the 'entire' system doesn't need replacing. Probably just need a fluid flush and a few usage cycles. Source: old cars that haven't had much maintenance

            • surg3on on 10/05/2024 - 15:41

              @ratoloko: Did you know all hybrids also use regenerative brakes? They have been around since the Prius days (90s?)

              • [Deactivated] on 16/05/2024 - 08:50

                @surg3on: Ouch, truth hurts.

            • klaw81 on 16/05/2024 - 10:29

              @ratoloko: This is absolute garbage and smacks of misinformation.

              On a Tesla, the user has zero control over how braking is achieved - the car's braking systems use regenerative braking first, and then friction brakes as a secondary measure, to achieve the required results. The user has zero control over which braking method, or what blend of the two, are applied.

              The rear wheel's friction brakes are applied as a "handbrake" every time the car is put in Park.

              • howcan on 16/05/2024 - 11:01

                @klaw81:

                On a Tesla, the user has zero control over how braking is achieved

                The user has zero control over which braking method, or what blend of the two, are applied.

                Track Mode

                Regenerative Braking - Drag the slider to choose how much regenerative braking is available. You can choose any value, in 5% increments, between 0 and 100%. Tesla recommends the 100% setting to prevent overheating the brakes.

                • klaw81 on 16/05/2024 - 11:15
                  +1

                  @howcan: You're right, Track mode is the exception - but it is only available on Performance / Plaid models.

                  Outside that, the only way you can ensure your friction brakes get any real use is to brake heavily from highway speeds.

                  There are plenty of stories of Tesla vehicles going well beyond 150,000km on the original brake pads, simply because regenerative braking is so effective at slowing the vehicle. If you don't like in a snowy area, Telsa's only recommendation for brake servicing is to check the brake fluid once every 24 months and replace if necessary.

  • Eeples on 10/05/2024 - 17:19

    If 2nd hand teslas aren’t being sold then their value is unknown.

    The market determines the value of 2nd hand teslas; not their owners sticking a price on them (and not the price of new ones).

    If the OP will not meet that price then there is simply no market. And we still don’t know the value of 2nd hand teslas.

  • figarow on 12/05/2024 - 15:21

    Can always mod it out not happy with the interior.

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