Is Anyone Even Buying Second Hand Teslas?

MaxPower1982 on 07/05/2024 - 11:30
Last edited 07/05/2024 - 12:58 by 1 other user

Have been tracking new Tesla price drops for Model Ys and also keeping an eye on second hand stock on CarSales. Though I see some price adjustments by private sellers, most of them are still priced too high for 2022, 2023 models with only a few thousand dollars price difference compared to new stock. Also under Price Insights on CarSales I can see that the cars have been repeatedly discounted and have been for sale for months (some of them even since 2022).

Not a EV hater but wondering is there really a market for second hand Teslas? The price that the sellers want in my view are too high when for few thousand more a brand new one is available and there are no long wait times. Just like a couple year old mobile phone, am i correct to assume that people want the latest model even though nothing much has changed (maybe Tesla compute hardware)….

Will be great to hear from folks who have bought second hand Tesla and how much did they save compared to a new model.

Automotive Car Electric Vehicle SUV Tesla Inc

Comments

  • MS Paint on 07/05/2024 - 11:44
    +16

    have been repeatedly discounted and have been for sale for months

    New Tesla prices seem to be dropping every other month so the second hand ones have to as well.

    • Gunnar on 07/05/2024 - 13:44
      +7

      This! The issue you're seeing OP is that sellers don't want to adjust their price to what the market is doing which is why you see the prices of used ones so close to new ones.

      • MaxPower1982 on 08/05/2024 - 09:45
        +1

        Seems like it, some have had their listing up for a long time.

    • JackFrost on 09/05/2024 - 14:15
      +1

      haha, local sellers are mostly kidding themselves. They won't be moving them at the prices they're advertising them for…

  • Cluster on 07/05/2024 - 11:50
    +21

    Sellers are not updating their prices. They'll have to eventually otherwise their vehicle will be on CarSales for years. Not only are sellers losing money by not selling now (Tesla keeps chopping the new price), they're losing a good 5% per year on top by not keeping the money in their bank account.

    EVs are only going to get cheaper from here. Better battery tech is around the corner and NMC based Teslas will see their value plummet in the coming years.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 07/05/2024 - 12:25
      +10

      More than the 5% they're losing on missed opportunity but they are paying rego, insurance and depreciation. It makes no sense to keep a car for 6months+ to get a few thousand extra, because you would have lost it in that time anyway.

      • Nugs on 07/05/2024 - 16:40
        +14

        Unless they are still using it? Some people who want top dollar are just ready to sell if an overpayer comes along
        .

        • H3R34TH4C0MM3NTS on 09/05/2024 - 09:48
          +3

          Some people are completely fudged in the head and have an over inflated value of thier own possessions, let the market decide and let them keep thier vehicles

        • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 09:19

          Unless they are still using it?

          True but they would have to program the price to go down like $100 a day because obviously they are consuming it.

      • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 09:19

        More than the 5% they're losing on missed opportunity but they are paying rego, insurance and depreciation. It makes no sense

        Non sensical people are everywhere.

    • Gdsamp on 07/05/2024 - 13:24

      Just wait till next year when they announce better battery tech/ new full self driving beta is only 5 years away

      • JownehFixIT on 08/05/2024 - 07:59
        +6

        I don't know whether this is speculation or based on some recent news, but I'll believe full self driving is coming when it's actually announced (preferably in the Tesla app, not from of Elon's frequently false statements).

        https://youtu.be/zhr6fHmCJ6k?si=4a2YYnWOORICObuE

        • drprox on 08/05/2024 - 13:24
          +19

          I'll believe it when the Australian government allows it. So never

          • Nomad2233 on 09/05/2024 - 13:37
            +1

            @drprox: The Australian government would power cars with coal if they could

      • BartholemewH on 10/05/2024 - 16:47
        +1

        … new full self driving beta is only 5 10 years away.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/05/2024 - 20:47
          +1

          The 10 muskan years or a reasonable person's 10 years?

    • klaw81 on 15/05/2024 - 15:12

      I absolutely agree. People aren't going to buy used if the new ones are only an extra few grand. There's plenty of interested buyers if the used price represents a real saving.

      I bought a 18-month old used Tesla (at a price considerably lower than RRP) and couldn't be happier with my purchase.

  • mini2 on 07/05/2024 - 12:13
    +5

    There's always a market for cars, so long they're priced correctly.

    I guess people will need to be realistic with their pricing, based on what it costs to replace it now, not when they've purchased it.

    If they can accept that some of these EVs are tech and not cars, they might be able to swallow the steeper-than-usual depreciation.

  • rambutann on 07/05/2024 - 12:23
    +6

    A novated lease on an EV makes them so damn cheap that it's going to take a very competitive price to entice people.

    That's the whole reason why there have been articles claiming that the depreciation is so high on EV's.. the reality is that in the real world people are paying significantly less than the list price on these websites.

    • leiiv on 07/05/2024 - 14:17
      +1

      Why is it so? What makes it different than novated lease on an ICE car?

      • yabol on 07/05/2024 - 15:38
        +14

        EVs are FBT exempt

      • rambutann on 07/05/2024 - 16:57
        +6

        What yabol said. FBT exempt, so you're essentially paying actual list price minus 10% (GST) minus your tax bracket (for most people that's 32.5%).
        It essentially makes a $70k vehicle $42.5k before accounting for the interest charged on the novated lease loan, which isn't an awful lot.

      • changyang1230 on 07/05/2024 - 19:23
        +58

        I have a spreadsheet that does every single calculation about novated lease.

        https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CtpBXmuhRW3HrBjqJqnP…

        There is a page on EV novated lease, and another page on ICE novated lease. For the EV page it was the real figure I got when I got my Tesla Model 3 last August (81,400 driveaway), and for the ICE page I put in an imaginary ICE car with the same price tag.

        In my situation (top tax bracket, 5 year lease, stable job), because of the FBT exemption (plus saving from using electricity vs fuel), the overall lease payment for the Tesla is a full 45,500 dollars LESS than an ICE car with the same price tag.

        • CantonasKungFuKick on 07/05/2024 - 22:32
          +4

          That is one in depth workbook

          What do you do after the 5 year lease? Pay the balloon payment?

          What interest rate are you on for the lease?

          • changyang1230 on 07/05/2024 - 22:37
            +4

            @CantonasKungFuKick: The analysis is based on paying the balloon at the end of the lease to own outright, so that you can do Apple-with-apple comparison with other methods eg cash or loan.

            8.6% for my Tesla (effective rate - I explain it in section 4 and the FAQ).

          • SydStrand on 08/05/2024 - 12:03
            +1

            @CantonasKungFuKick: Pay balloon, or re-lease it and hope the interest rate has dropped.

        • lachhelix on 07/05/2024 - 23:14
          +4

          Wow - that's a detailed spreadsheet, good work! - I do however can't imagine a residual value of 50% in on any EV, especially Teslas, after 5yrs at this stage

          • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 00:30
            +2

            @lachhelix: Yeah 50% is probably optimistic.

            It won’t change the EV-via-NL vs EV-via-cash analysis (since the 5-year-car value will be the same for both pathways) but indeed will change the EV-via-NL vs keeping-old-car comparison.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 08/05/2024 - 09:55
          +1

          , 5 year lease, stable job

          Isn't this a really big point though? What happens if you leave the job?

          • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 10:18
            +2

            @coffeeinmyveins: Yeah I kinda wrote this there for the implication of "it needs to be appropriate for your circumstances". People need to work out if their job stability is good enough for the potential headache of changing employer etc.

            Supposedly some people have done it if they change employer, there is some paperwork involved i.e. to get the new employer to take over the lease, however I have also heard of cases where the new employer won't or can't support novated lease and they are forced to pay out the remaining lease as a lump sum.

            There are other caveats to be considered whether NL is good for you; it's all included in my spreadsheet document which I designed to be almost an all-in-one exploration in this topic. I am not financially affiliated with anything (I am merely a doctor who loves maths), I wrote this initially for myself but over time this has evolved to be a generic document that I have shared to help people out.

            • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 09:35

              @changyang1230: That is why people would rather put the money towards a negatively geared investment. I mean you can sell that investment and not on the hook to your current employer and contingent on another employer.

              • changyang1230 on 10/05/2024 - 10:57

                @netjock: Yup for sure - employment situation is a huge part of the consideration when one takes up a lease, which sadly many people don't think hard enough about. As a specialist in a public hospital this is a virtual non-issue for me, but for someone who is semi-unhappy with their workplace, they need to think hard and deep about how tied up they want to be.

          • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 09:33

            @coffeeinmyveins: You mean like how Tesla laid off their workers and they all had Tesla subsidized leases? heheheheh

        • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 09:27

          The problem here is you compare car of the same price and assumption there is FBT.

          • changyang1230 on 10/05/2024 - 10:59

            @netjock: Not sure why you are calling it "the problem here" when comparing FBT impact?

            I did that to demonstrate exactly how much cheaper FBT-exemption is making a NL arrangement.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 07/05/2024 - 12:27
    +4

    with only a few thousand dollars price difference compared to new stock

    This pricing structure only works when supply is not keeping up with demand. There is no demand issue with Tesla's and they've reduced prices as you've seen.

    I suspect a lot of these that you're seeing will literally sit there for 6 months or more because the sellers have anchored themselves to selling close to RRP. In reality, no-one will buy it.

  • Dollar General on 07/05/2024 - 12:39
    -1

    Tesla will have to buy them back and put them in their certified used car program as not manny people want to take the risk

  • techno2000 on 07/05/2024 - 13:16
    +3

    Used EV is just like a used smartphone and similar battery degradation/old tech issues.It will have to be significantly cheaper than a new one for people to buy it.

    • Tomcruise on 07/05/2024 - 13:43
      +1

      Spot on.

    • shxhshzhz on 07/05/2024 - 13:49
      +10

      The real deal will be when they pop up in 20% off refurbished tech ebay sales 😂

    • changyang1230 on 07/05/2024 - 19:29
      +17

      Old tech yes; battery degradation is really an overblown concern for people with outdated understanding about the current state of EV battery technology.

      On average, Tesla's OLDER batteries have 88% capacity left after 320,000 km according to their published info.

      The current LFP batteries (found on all the base models in the current offer) are good for 2 to 3 TIMES this distance before they reach similar degradation.

      This is greater than 20 years of driving for most people's average driving habit.

    • Euphemistic on 07/05/2024 - 19:35
      +10

      Battery degradation in Tesla is virtually a non issue. They are lasting a lot longer than expected. Like 400,000k woth decent life left.

      600k km:
      https://youtu.be/wOFfKQ7SxEg?si=FpUosW_NToEpk8Wf

      Id be more worried about their reputation for poor quality control and fast engineering practices where they push beta testing to customers. Things like suspension and interior parts more likely to be a problem - or Ol Musky disabling software stuff just because.

      • Jackson on 09/05/2024 - 00:42

        While we are on the topic, I have heard LFPs in the BYD e6 in use as taxis in Singapore are doing 700-1M km over 7 years and still have 75% of their capacity at least

        • Euphemistic on 09/05/2024 - 05:55

          And Nissan have said they arent getting enoigh feed stock for their battery recycling plant because the batteries are lasting longer than expected

    • edvoon on 09/05/2024 - 10:42
      +3

      I got a 2nd hand Tesla Model3 - in fact the oldest 2019 model.
      Old tech - it's got almost the same functionality as a brand new Model3, bar the ones that need actual hardware like matrix headlights and boombox. Doesn't feel old at all, and in fact it still feels newer than any other car I've owned or ridden in an Uber.
      I did a quick battery calculation before buying it and it was just above 90% of original which is normal for a car at this age. And it hadn't degraded noticeably since.
      I still made a trip to Port Macquarie with no issues and will be heading out to Coffs Harbour later in the year.

      2nd hand Teslas and in fact 2nd hand EVs are now excellent value for what you get, mainly because people are listening to the FUD thrown around by fossil-fuel-funded influencers and news media, and are too afraid to invest in one. Bad for owners but great for new EV drivers.
      Just the fact I don't have to go to a petrol station anymore or queue up for discounted petrol is worth getting an EV.

    • dogboy on 07/05/2024 - 15:45
      +2

      Look out - there are a lot of Musk fanbois here for some reason.

      • dealsucker on 08/05/2024 - 16:03
        +2

        New rule on ozbargain - put the name of the ceo in the deal and the biography so that we can decide whether to buy it or not irrespective of how good or bad the product is.

        • fatpizza on 09/05/2024 - 13:27

          When the CEO is as petulant as Musk is, and has shown a willingness to change things on a whim to suit his own personal interests. Yes, I will avoid Tesla cars like the plague.

          • dealsucker on 09/05/2024 - 14:41

            @fatpizza: I did not know publically traded companies should be run as a charity

            • fatpizza on 09/05/2024 - 16:25

              @dealsucker: I'm not sure exactly what your statement has to do with what I said. Personal interests do not necessarily equate to the best interests of the company. The way Musk runs twitter is evidence enough of that.

    • thrillhouse on 08/05/2024 - 07:37
      +11

      I don't like Musk, but love my Tesla. I'm able to dissociate the megalomaniac from the car (that many other brilliant people had a hand in).

      • payless69 on 08/05/2024 - 07:59

        _megalomaniac ?

        There was a time when I had prejudice against Jack Dorsey. I was wrong.
        Then Elon paid peanuts for Twitter so I looked up for the definition of MANIAC.
        There is still a good chance that them 2 lads have more braincells than me.

        • stjep on 08/05/2024 - 14:11
          -2

          They don't need too many to have more than you, and can still be idiots. Musk is almost definitely the dumbest person in any room he inhabits.

        • johnno07 on 08/05/2024 - 14:38
          +5

          In what world is $44b USD for an unprofitable company peanuts??

          • payless69 on 08/05/2024 - 15:49
            +1

            @johnno07: Before the Twitter deal I had high admiration for him. After all showing the world that EV's are truly feasible.
            Paying for a comms company one would thing he was having a business plan. Paying a fantasy price well that was the point he went from genius to maniac inside my head. Giving a new name to a bad horse is not making it faster.
            Apple could be run without Steve Jobs. If something happens to Elon one only wonders how it would end up.

            • johnno07 on 08/05/2024 - 17:10

              @payless69: FYI "peanuts" is a slang term meaning "almost nothing" or "extremely cheap".

        • Lockieasy on 08/05/2024 - 19:08
          +8

          Elon paying $44bn to become a Twitter moderator will never not be funny

      • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:09

        I don't like Musk

        That is why they are dropping prices. If he keeps his mouth shut and keeps on making good products.

        Some of this talk about better products coming actually stops people buying now and pushes down prices.

        Why would I buy today when in 12 months something else better is coming.

        • Euphemistic on 11/05/2024 - 06:27
          +1

          Why would I buy today when in 12 months something else better is coming.

          Theres always something better coming "real soon now", especially in a tech world. At some point you just have to bite the bullet and purchase. Admittedly EVs are in a different part of the development phase to phones and computers, but if youre always waiting for the next, better version youll never buy anything.

  • fredz0r on 07/05/2024 - 14:03
    +2

    You won't see the cheaper ones because once they are listed they sell. Once they are sold it comes of the platform. I guess your the dude that clicks on every ad asking "is this still available"

  • TheBilly on 07/05/2024 - 14:06
    +5

    I know MANY people who have bought a new Tesla. I don't know a single person who has bought one used. It may be too early to tell how strong the used car market is for these as I don't think they have even rotated a full lease cycle. Alot of people lease these for 3-5 years then upgrade the lease which creates a steady supply of used. At the 5 year mark there will be more for sale and potentially motivated sellers.

    • bobs burgers on 09/05/2024 - 17:58

      Tesla has been around for quite a while now, not to mention, the model 3 has been around since 2019 in Australia. There is plenty of second hand ones being bought

      Edit: model y since 2023 only, but you don't imply any model

    • Gdsamp on 07/05/2024 - 16:13
      +22

      Let's see Volkswagen's history between 1934 and 1945

    • thrillhouse on 08/05/2024 - 07:41
      +8

      Look around your home, and I guarantee you have no idea about who leads the brands of many things you own.
      It's just because Musk is such a prolific figure, that we all get to (unfortunately) learn about him.

      CEO's are - in general - narcissistic people. I'm confident there are many brands that you buy into that are just as evil on a holistic level.

      Musk is awful, but Tesla make a great car. I'll be happy to see the day he is voted out, but until then I'm not going to avoid my car because of him.

    • R4 on 08/05/2024 - 15:36
      +2

      I quite like him. In a world of identikit, woke (and wealthy) pricks, he does and says his own thing - sure he often talks a pile o sh1te but plenty of other 'acceptable' people do too. I do like that he's right-wing but that's by the by as there's some raging socialists that I like too. I like that X is basically anything goes. That's how it should be.

      • dealsucker on 08/05/2024 - 16:06
        +6

        How on earth is he right wing? Like seriosuly. The extreme left is so far down on the spectrum that anyone even someone who would be center to left would look like a rank right winger. These terms have literally lost their meaning

  • Euphemistic on 07/05/2024 - 18:19
    +2

    Dont forget that even used, these cars arent cheap. Cost of livinf pressures mean people arent upgrading for the sake of it now, they are minding their pennies and so probably not buying much at all, especially if its overpriced.

  • changyang1230 on 07/05/2024 - 19:31
    +16

    Re: the supposed rapid depreciation of EV.

    I highly suspect this is the result of market distortion due to the effect of novated lease reducing the effective cost of EV dramatically.

    Check out my spreadsheet on EV novated lease if you haven't, but the summary is that owning 81k new EV via novated lease for 5 years can be similar in overall cost with owning a 25k used ICE for 5 years, when all financial impacts are considered. It may sound crazy but the hard number is there, especially for people in top tax brackets.

    One of the main rules about NL is that only EV first owned after July 2022 and under luxury car tax threshold would qualify.

    So if you are given two options. One is to buy an 2021 EV worth 45,000, another is to own a new EV worth 81,000 via novated lease. The latter will work out cheaper overall when you do the maths - which one would you get?

    It's heavy market distortion like this that greatly reduces the demand for even slightly older EV and drives down the price significantly.

    Now, in a few more years, this market distortion will likely lessen for two reasons:
    - in year 2026, for example, you can NL either a new 2026 EV, but you can also NL a used 2023 EV. So the price differential no longer favours the new EV as much as the current situation, where new 2024 EV is dramatically cheaper than the 2021 EV when NL's "discount effect" is accounted for.

    • in 2027, FBT-exemption for EV NL (what makes EV NL so cheap) is up for review, and I highly suspect the FBT exemption will end by then. This will also end the market distortion effect.

    Outside this economic force, I think there is a lot of unjustified fear and uncertainty around EV batteries at this stage, especially the older generation NMC batteries. Now in a few more years, as we get older batteries and statistics on their reliability, I think people will have renewed confidence to own an EV which is a few years old when they realise that the current generation batteries do last for more than 10 years and the depreciation after hundreds of thousands of kms will be around 10% region which is still perfectly serviceable for most people especially as charging infrastructure matures even further.

    TIP: For best of both worlds, do seriously consider novate-leasing used EVs that qualify, i.e. never been under LCT, and first held and used after 1/7/2022. If you manage to find a car with good price tag, go NL it and you will be amazed by how cheap you can have it for.

    • Gotchas on 07/05/2024 - 21:11
      +2

      NL is about 5 k cheaper for an EV than paying for it outright for a 12 mth lease

      5 year NL on an ice car is like comparing to a pay day lender

      • leiiv on 08/05/2024 - 00:38

        Did you include the FBT exemption in your calculation?

        • Gotchas on 08/05/2024 - 09:15
          +2

          Yes all included

          Repayments plus balloon vs outright price

          The longer the lease the worse it gets

          Also included interest income benefit from not paying capital upfront

          Another disadvantage of NL is you are not able to claim car tax deduction for the duration of lease

          The real winners are the lease company at the tax payers expense

          • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:16

            @Gotchas:

            The real winners are the lease company at the tax payers expense

            Now you know why they made it FBT free. Not just GST free like fresh food available to everyone.

            • changyang1230 on 10/05/2024 - 11:00

              @netjock: A much more equitable way to incentivise EV would have been to provide a plain rebate; by providing tax incentive they are giving more saving to people who already make more, which is absolutely regressive.

              • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 12:18

                @changyang1230: It is actually a wealth transfer.

                I am surprised you took and deal. Obviously want to keep the regressive thing going. Imagine if nobody took the deal out of principle?

                A much more equitable way to incentivise EV would have been to provide a plain rebate

                On a $60k car? It isn't going to close the gap for someone who can only afford a KIA Piccanto. We all need to eat (that is why some fresh food is GST free) and we need to travel but getting rebate on a $60k car but not a $20k car is regressive too.

                • changyang1230 on 10/05/2024 - 13:34
                  +1

                  @netjock: There are plenty of things in the world that are not perfectly equitable.

                  Any tax deduction is also unfair - people on 60k salary get a lot less when they claim deduction on their printer compared to when I claim my printer while being on top bracket. But recognising this nature should not stop me from optimising my finance and quality of life using tools available to me.

                  • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 15:49
                    -1

                    @changyang1230:

                    people on 60k salary get a lot less when they claim deduction on their printer compared to when I claim my printer while being on top bracket

                    It is actually equitable because the average tax rate is lower on $60k. You can't allow 47c per $1 of deduction when you are on the 32.5% MTR. That would be a wealth transfer not equality.

                    I hope you don't work in finance industry.

                    • changyang1230 on 10/05/2024 - 17:16

                      @netjock: I don’t know whether you misunderstood me or are just trigger happy to throw thinly veiled insult even without making sure you first understood the person you are criticising.

                      I am going to use an actual figure to illustrate it for people who need help understanding me.

                      Let’s say a doctor on top bracket (ie 45 MTR and 2 Medicare levy) and his secretary (on 32.5, soon 30 plus 2 Medicare levy) both need to buy a printer for 100% work related use, hence tax deductible.

                      They have both decided to go for a 400 dollars model as something they need.

                      The doctor, after claiming the 400 tax deduction, gets 400x(0.45+0.02) = 188 dollar reduction in tax. The secretary, on the other hand, gets 400x(0.325+0.02) = 138 dollar reduction in tax.

                      So in effect, the generic “allow people to claim tax deduction for work purpose” policy allow people with higher income to benefit more, compared to people with lower income.

                      It is precisely the same mechanism when we talked about novated lease benefiting people on higher tax bracket to a larger extent, when they use pretax money to fund the lease.

                      So I am puzzled as to why you could understand NL unfairly favouring higher income people, but not generic tax deduction favouring higher income people, when the mechanics are precisely the same save for difference in magnitude of money involved? Why do you hold two different opinions about tax deduction and novated leasing, when the mechanism of tax saving is similar?

                      Do you actually work in finance industry?

    • jhaley3180 on 08/05/2024 - 08:00
      +2

      Absolutely spot on. Furthermore, the market distortion you are referring to is deliberately being created to drive the price of used EVs. There are two forces at work, first is somewhat early adoption of newer technology, as the technology matures and scale increases it will naturally become more cost efficient. Second is the EV FBT exemption, this will drive used prices down for several years. Why? The entire FBT EV policy is to create a pool of affordable EVs within the market over the next 2-4 years.

      • changyang1230 on 08/05/2024 - 12:40
        +1

        I have heard this "intention" a few times - do you know if the government / ATO has specifically stated this "produce cheap pool of second hand EV" as the explicit intention when they introduced it? It would be the effect, for sure, but I am just curious if it's something that's stated explicitly.

        • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:19

          ATO only applies government policy and they can make recommendations.

          I can guarantee it is some fun pollsters who try to put a positive spin on a scheme to enrich their corporate mates.

          Don't forget salary is a company expense, if companies can pay less GST and FBT (as part of salary, because you don't want to give people a $2k raise so they can stretch to a Tesla) then enrich their corporate rates making a killing doing novated leasing (novated leasing companies get their funding from the banks who charge interest, then they charge interest margin and fees on top too).

          If the government want to spread the good evenly they could have just made EVs GST free like fresh food.

    • Gotchas on 08/05/2024 - 11:48
      +1

      Also used EV unless from a dealer won’t have GST component to claim

  • pegaxs on 07/05/2024 - 22:24
    +5

    Because most buyers bought in during peak Covid. Added to that, they are all up to their gills in the Musk flavoured Kool-aid and still think the Ponzi scheme that is used Teslas is actually a thing. It isn’t… it may have worked when supply was contracted and demand was high, but not now that the market is flooded with them.

    • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:21

      It is only a ponzi if you end up carrying the bag when are left with a big fat loss!

      Remember some of Bernie Madoff investors that cashed out early before it was found as a ponzi. They didn't think it was fair they should share some of the losses through a clawback.

  • sonicentropy on 08/05/2024 - 07:28
    +2

    2025 is going to see a lot more options for ev's. Sodium ion evs are also just around the corner they are not the revolution in battery tech we are waiting for but bring the cost down a lot. I just order some for my 7kw ebike. but first generations will have lower energy density. Likely to see these in a lot of Chinese ev. Japanese will have cracked ceramic battery tech in the next 12 months this will be likely the game changer.

    • GordonD on 08/05/2024 - 10:15

      Sodium ion batteries are now available. But with their much lower energy density they aren't viable for powering battery electric vehicles. But with their much lower material costs, and their much longer life they'd be great for a lot of other purposes. Home batteries. Hybrid vehicle batteries. Hopefully they'll quickly start being used for those purposes they are more suitable for, and leave the supply of the next generation of lithium ion batteries to EVs.

    • AustriaBargain on 10/05/2024 - 08:36

      Unless YOLO, then yeah may as well wait. China must make more EVs than our whole population every year, that's going to spill over to lower EVs here eventually.

  • payless69 on 08/05/2024 - 08:08
    -6

    Carsales is a public company mostly in the hands of American investors.
    To use them as a measure is like claiming Murdoch knows the mind of every stockman.

  • Windows98 on 08/05/2024 - 10:26
    -3

    Yes they are. People are paying those prices.
    Its high demand therefore high prices.

    Like with iPhones, the secondhand market is almost the price of new. But there are people who want it and want to save a few bucks.

    Plus some people can't wait the few months for a new one to arrive.

    Personally I'd buy the latest one available, because they change a lot with each new model. Better efficiency, connectivity, cameras etc.

    • pegaxs on 08/05/2024 - 10:50
      +9

      That’s the thing, though, people are not paying those prices, hence why there are so many Tesla vehicles for sale on Scamtree, Fartbook and Crapsales. Demand is not high for a used Tesla, certainly not for an overpriced one, and even less when Tesla keep dropping the price for new ones.

      A lot of Tesla owners are cult members who bought their Tesla on the misinformation that Tesla prices only go up. It’s the same mindset of Harley owners, Apple device owners and Pokémon trading card owners.

      The only people that buy into this shit that they are worth more used, is other brainwashed and gullible idiots. Once that market is saturated with cult member owners, there is no one else left to prop up the Ponzi scheme.

      So no, your information is about 2~4 years out of date. When Covid was a thing, or when Tesla Model ? Was new, sure, demand peaks, but now Covid is over and all the fanbois have their cars, the demand is all but gone and to off load, they need to start looking outside their pool of “kool-aid” sippers, and people outside the Tesla cult just don’t buy into the hyped up Ponzi scheme bullshit.

    • ZloyKrys on 08/05/2024 - 12:01
      +4

      Yeah but why they sit unsold for many months if they are in a such demand, anyone who tracks prices noticed that

    • netjock on 10/05/2024 - 10:21
      +1

      Like with iPhones, the secondhand market is almost the price of new

      LOL

  • apple2016 on 08/05/2024 - 10:43

    Yeah the used Tesla prices are quite high. not sure who is buying them at these prices.
    The problem is many still prefer new tesla as its mostly novated lease and new car works fine for that.
    Will have to wait and see after couple of yrs when all these NL is ending.

    • May4th on 08/05/2024 - 10:59

      but you can NL an used car as well, it's just a hassle

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