Office Jobs and WFH Policies: Early 2024 Status Check

jrowls on 01/02/2024 - 15:06

My employer is currently heading toward a full-time return to the office. I keep hearing from the higher-ups that 'everyone is doing it now'.

For reference, I'm a consultant in a relatively small company, 99% of the time our jobs are desk work only (occasional fieldwork). We were previously 3-4 days office, 1-2 WFH, which I much preferred.

Thought I'd reach out and do a little vibe check with the fine and frugal folks here on OzB. First time doing a poll here (I think?) but not my first time conducting a poll. Hopefully this works correctly.

Discussion starters:

  • What's your workplace doing?
  • Has it changed recently?
  • What's the vibe among the staff?
  • In [present time], would you look to change jobs if required to be in the office full time?
  • What industry are you in? What's your role?
  • What would your ideal scenario be?

Poll Options

  • 493
    A. My employer/boss/team is completely flexible (office attendance at employee's discretion).
  • 92
    B. My employer/boss/team requires minimum 1 day per week office attendance.
  • 259
    C. My employer/boss/team requires minimum 2 days per week office attendance.
  • 390
    D. My employer/boss/team requires minimum 3 days per week office attendance.
  • 38
    E. My employer/boss/team requires minimum 4 days per week office attendance.
  • 115
    F. My employer/boss/team requires full time office attendance.
  • 72
    G. My employer/boss/team doesn't have a set approach, determined per individual agreement.
  • 8
    H. My employer/boss/team doesn't have a set approach, determined by seniority/position.
  • 102
    I. The question doesn't apply to me whatsoever; but I wanted to participate in the poll.
Education & Work

Comments

    • PeelThis on 05/02/2024 - 15:52
      +1

      I think it depends on the persons home situation.
      I get plenty of socialization with a wife and kid home 2 days a week (big benefit working from home), gym during lunchbreak, sport 1 night a week, dinner with the in laws and my family twice a week + events on weekends with family and friends.
      The two people I speak with most at work each day as well as my manager are all interstate.

      The office culture at work even precovid for me just doesn't lend itself to great solcialization for me, mixed with hot desking with other departments etc and I can happily do without and not something I need my workplace to be concerned about.

      • whatgift on 05/02/2024 - 17:13

        Socialisation with people you wouldn't spend time with outside work is quite different from spending time with family and friends, and video calls are not the same either. I understand why people don't see value in it, but it's an important part of society that we are fast losing through technology.

        I'll admit that I'm not a big social person, but I get a lot out of conversing with random people in the office, even one's that have nothing to do with my work.

        • PeelThis on 06/02/2024 - 22:02
          +1

          Something else to add, the conversations I have on calls one on one with close colleagues can go for a good hour and the best part is that it is unfiltered and we can really speak our minds.
          Speaking to the same colleague while I'm in the office and all of a sudden we're both stiffs and have to mind our Ps and Qs.
          I've defintely noticed relationships with closer colleagues have deepended as a result, but there has been less conversations with people I don't talk to as often.

          I agree with what you're getting at RE random conversations, I think sometimes it can be good to have those water cooler conversations with people from the company you otherwise don't have much dealings with but for me the personal benefits of WFH far outweigh those brief interactions along with the effort, cost, and convenience of getting to work.
          If only I could cut out the commute and cost and teleport to the office, I would enjoy it a lot more!

          One might say that the business doesn't care about the personal benefits but it is a huge perk (I would take it over a company car) and I think that it is a big draw card these days with employee retention and hapiness, for me having to go 3 or more days a week and I would resent my workplace and want to find another job with WFH.
          We're also considering looking for a new place further out from the CBD now that is cheaper with more land as I don't need to be so close to a train line.

          I would almost liken WFH to online shopping and social media in a lot of ways socially, the convenience and efficiency it offers is massive and the genie is out of the bottle, but it's not lost on me the reduction of face to face and they way it's heading with technology isn't great either and it needs to be suplemented with other face to face interactions in other ways.

          • whatgift on 06/02/2024 - 23:24
            +1

            @PeelThis: Good points there - I think WFH for a majority of the time is fine, I just don’t think never interacting with work colleagues in person is a good trend though.

  • totom on 03/02/2024 - 15:04
    +1

    Time for you to head to seek.com.au mate.

    I'm a developer. WFH 3 days a week, 2 days at office. Zero chance I'm going back to office full time. I keep myself ready. The moment boss wants everyone to head to office full time is the moment I go for job hunting.

    • liongalahad on 04/02/2024 - 04:37
      -6

      enjoy while it lasts. Next recession will make WFH a weird thing of the past

      • PeelThis on 05/02/2024 - 15:55

        WFH has been a thing even precovid, it just brought it to the forefront for people and businesses resistant to change as a necessity during covid and no suprise that people enjoy the flexibility and work life balance after trying it.

        • The Hawk on 06/02/2024 - 14:28
          +1

          Agreed, Most of my team were doing at least one day WFH pre-COVID and we were talking about expanding that to two days. It was still considered new and strange to allow WFH so it was a struggle to get it approved, but it was happening slowly. COVID shattered businesses' misconceptions that the world would stop turning if they allowed people to WFH at all (let alone full-time). So many changes in so many corners of business that people were fighting to get were forced by COVID and it's been the step change we needed.

          That said, I think there is still a lot of learning and things that can be done better by both employers and staff, but I would like to believe that regular WFH is here to stay.

  • mousie on 03/02/2024 - 16:14
    +1

    I have better internet at home than what my office has.

    I can work faster with a proper setup.

    My boss is interstate so catch up face to face means one of us flies.

    A mandate to 3 days a week from 2 won't materially change things on my side.

    The senior managers who pushed for the increase don't do this amount of time in the office at all. We are going to hot desks and will run out of space.

    I would take a 10k pay cut to work 100% from home… This based off my value of time and costs of commuting saved.

  • kaleidoscope on 03/02/2024 - 16:47
    -1

    How’s this?
    The more you keep pushing for full time wfh, the more you and the entire team are likely to get replaced by off shore team because its lot cheaper

    • freefall101 on 03/02/2024 - 17:09
      +2

      That’s why post covid the unemployment rate dropped to the lowest rate in 50 years, because they just moved everything offshore?

      No manager worth their salt wants an offshore team, all it would mean is their budget is slashed and their productivity goes down the toilet.

      If the c suite wants to move it offshore, then being in the office won’t be a concern to them. I saw far too many projects offshored only to go to shit pre-covid. If no one overseas is offering a viable product with quality assurances, it won’t go offshore. If they are, it’ll go regardless of whether I work from home.

    • jrowls on 04/02/2024 - 12:06
      +1

      Mmk, good luck doing that for my job, but you keep thinking that.

    • PeelThis on 05/02/2024 - 16:01

      If it's a lot cheaper and beneficial to the business they would have done it already.
      Offshoring has been around for decades and WFH vs working in the office doesn't change the primary driver for businesses offshoring roles.

  • misterpotatomato on 03/02/2024 - 17:31
    +4

    Anyone after a WFH software developer? Send me a DM 😂

  • NervousValuable on 03/02/2024 - 17:47
    +1

    I work at a global financial services company (13000+ employees). Currently 3 days in the office and 2 days WFH

    Our HQ is based in the UK and banks over there are moving to 4 days in the office - so unfortunately we will also move to 4 days.

    I work more efficiently whilst WFH (less impromptu meetings and distractions). However, I understand the need for building rapport (distractions) and agree that we should work in the office at least once per week.

  • jmc787 on 03/02/2024 - 18:49

    I work one day a week in our CBD office, its voluntary attendance. If I had to go in 3 days it wouldn't bother me as I live close. I would not be keen at all on ever doing 5 days onsite again. I've been doing the same role in the same company pretty much for 10 years. I work with both interstate and offshore teams every day, so the location of the chair my bottom is sitting on is irrelevant. It's much more about being accessible/contactable/responsive than where you are physically located.

    I can see that for new people and juniors having more in person facetime would be beneficial but once you're established in a role it does not matter where you are imo.

  • qwijibo on 03/02/2024 - 18:52
    +2

    The managers that I've seen that want to go back to full office work are either:

    1. "people" persons. They truly miss the social aspect of work. Not surprising as most managers are on the "extrovert" end of the spectrum.
    2. zero-trust managers. They believe if they can't see people grinding away, then they're slacking off.
    3. have no way of motivating a remote workforce and measuring impact to see if it's actually working or not.

    Sometimes you get a combo of the above.

  • liongalahad on 04/02/2024 - 04:32

    WFH is the opposite of productivity in my industry, useful only for management to sort things that require concentration and no teamwork (such as budget/financials etc)
    So my company's policy is 0 days/week WFH generally, 1 day/week WFH for management (but not every manager does it).

    WFH by default will be a thing of the past after the next recession.

    • jrowls on 04/02/2024 - 12:05

      What industry is that? Why is WFH 'the opposite of productivity' in it?

      • liongalahad on 05/02/2024 - 17:26

        Engineering consultancy. because it requires continuous team work, prompt communication, requires a manager to walk around and check progress to make sure everything is on track and people, especially juniors, are not going on a tangent, drawings reviews… It's just obvious when someone is at home, things get done much more slowly and inefficiently, it's just the way it is. Has been done during covid and it was absolute cr*p. Also, people enjoys the work environment and generally prefer to be in office rather at home. We run anonymous happiness surveys which highlight there is no complains about this and in 3 years we had only one person saying they'd want to work from home. The no WFH policy is in people's contract and it's well explained during interviews. If one is not OK with this policy they won't take the job.

  • YoursTruly on 04/02/2024 - 04:32
    +1

    Personally can’t WFH even if I wanted to…
    Have a fully set office at home even.

    Need a transition feel between work and home mindset and vibe transition - otherwise it feels like either fully work time or fully home time (very hard to balance the two)

    And since wife is now also a full time homemaker it can be tempting to do ’stuff’

    Working from office solely for that transition/ mindset break

    • WorstAgreeableRadish on 05/02/2024 - 07:38
      +2

      Getting that transition right took some time, especially since my main hobby is PC gaming. I would finish work, then switch off the work laptop, turn on my gaming PC and sit at the same desk and game. Now I do chores or go for a walk for at least 30 minutes before going back to gaming at that desk.

      I also move the laptop away from the desk when I'm done to get a better separation.

  • nobro25 on 04/02/2024 - 11:42
    -3

    People complaining about a cushy job in the office and complain about traveling to work. Entitled much? Look at the end of the day if you're unhappy.

    A. Find another company that is WFH.
    B. If you're diligent enough build your own company and be the boss to make the rules.

    There's plenty of people out there happy to take your position. It may sound unreasonable but life is unfair for the most part. If nothing else solves your problems and you'll just continue wingeing than maybe wear a helmet life is short.

    • Jolakot on 04/02/2024 - 16:02
      +2

      Mate you lose out too, every extra person forced into the office is another car on the road.

      Took me 20 mins to get into the CBD during covid at peak times, now it's about 40 mins if I leave early enough to miss the school rush, or closer to an hour if I don't.

      I'd much rather the cushy job people stay at home and save me 10-20 mins of driving than not. Why the hell would you want more traffic? Roads are bad enough as is.

  • haemolysis on 04/02/2024 - 21:21

    One thing I find interesting is people saying WFH has proven equally or more productive, and the majority of the sources/studies/anecdotes come during or shortly after the pandemic: an era of the lowest cash rate in history and mass economic boom. Well of course “productivity rose” haha.

    But I think that was probably “in spite” of wfh. Not because of it. Highly unlikely it was such a positive influence.

    That said, the impact is probably small. And the benefits large. Employers should just view it as the cost of working now and get used to it.

    Besides, many of us have to work virtually regardless of an office. I’m sure we are all accustomed to the single conference room being “booked” or have a client or two overseas.

    • WorstAgreeableRadish on 05/02/2024 - 08:40

      The last time I was at the office 100% I was part of a pretty social team with interruptions galore. I definitely still get more done at home now than I did then.
      I'm pretty sure I get more done at home than on my single office-day. I have better equipment at home, my internet is fast, there are still less distractions, and when it's 5pm and I'm on the cusp of finishing something, I finish it instead of packing up so that I don't miss my train.

      If I were to work from the office for 5 days a week again, productivity will most likely plummet. I will spend more time commuting, which means less relaxation time at home. Better rested employees are more productive employees.

      • ChemicalMan on 05/02/2024 - 09:58
        -1

        Why do you personally care about the company's productivity? If they are happy with people coming into the office with interruptions galore that doesn't really affect you. If your company gave you 2 days off every week would you complain that you aren't being productive?
        I'm just not sure why people keep obsessing over their master's productivity.

        • WorstAgreeableRadish on 05/02/2024 - 11:13

          I care about my own productivity in my work. I feel good when I accomplish something at work, and I don't feel good when I spend day after day accomplishing less than I think I'm capable of.

          More relevant to the discussion at hand is that claims are sometimes made that people are not more productive at home than at the office, and therefore everyone should come back. This will mean that I will waste more time on a train that could be spent doing other things. The option to work from home is a win-win situation. I get more free time, and the company gets higher productivity.

  • plastererJazz on 05/02/2024 - 07:30

    My employer is pushing 3 days in the office for better communication.

    I have been in the office couples and ended up working alone and having video conference calls with colleagues and clients from home.

  • zanzir on 05/02/2024 - 08:46

    no requirement to go to office, i take trips overseas and work from wherever i want. just came back from 2 weeks in thailand working from there and holidaying.

  • ChemicalMan on 05/02/2024 - 09:49
    -1

    My entire team (except me) used to be based interstate. After meeting them in person our dynamic changed, collaboration improved, better working environment in general.
    People who never want to come into the office think they are productive when in fact they are not. Also, I don't know why they keep complaining that they are 'more productive' at home, you're a slave worker for a faceless company going against logic and maybe against their own employer just to be 'more productive' lol no one cares
    Most people don't need to be in the office all the time. But people who don't venture our of their rooms are as bad as the boomers who need to be in the office walking around adding no value.

    • WorstAgreeableRadish on 05/02/2024 - 11:36

      I agree some face to face time is good. I personally like 1 day a week in the office, and if I lived closer to work, even 2 days could be good. I'm not against a hybrid model. I'm against forced excessive time in office or doing it in a way that doesn't make sense.

      At my previous company we did 1 day a quarter, but that was a team who was 90% the same as it was before covid, so we all knew each other well. Everyone would come in on that one day. Those who lived out of town would fly in etc.

      Where I work now, everyone comes in on the day they want to. Not that it really matters, since I've never collaborated with any of the people at my location anyway. I go in once a week just to get to know the people.

      Since we had to WFH 100% of the time, my home office setup is also better than my setup at work.

  • ThadtheChad on 05/02/2024 - 10:34
    +5

    I keep seeing some really interesting takes - especially by a lot of folks in here and on reddit. I may be reaching here, but I genuinely feel like these people tend to be the older lot running small business with very antiquated views or just blue-collar tradesfolk who are upset that they don't get to WFH.

    Take 1: If your job can be done remotely, it can be done overseas.

    Rebuttal: In 2024, if one is in a trivially offshored admin role, it very likely would have already been pushed overseas. Furthermore, the risk for higher skilled/education professionals is minimal. Typical offshoring destinations like India are no longer as price competitive as they used to be. Philippines is great, but largely for BPO, admin support. Still, there are data sovereignty considerations that need to be negotiated first.

    Take 2: Business relationships/team collab needs face to face interaction.

    Rebuttal: This is largely dependent on the age/demographic and ability to operate with virtual tooling. For the most part, I'd say the 20-mid/late40s demographic is able to perform admirably. With good management making sure team cohesion is maintained and there is opportunity for periodic face-to-face interaction, productivity is likely much higher than in-office only teams. Ofcourse, this is dependent on the type of role - and the sad fact is, some roles will always need a portion of in-office days. This should be driven purely by role requirements however.

    Take 3: WFH folks are just taking the piss and just jerking off/watching netflix/playing videogames/<insert strawman>; while the rest of the in-office staff are working their arses off.

    Rebuttal: This is actually a classic symptom of very poor operational management. In fact, I will suggest that a manager who is unable to get their team to perform, while WFH, is likely a poor manager. WFH is the prime95 of an ops team. It really brings to fore any and all weaknesses within a team and it's immediate management. Poor managers are revealed as are shit employees. Getting rid of/performancing coaching both are the actual solutions to this, not doing away with WFH.

    =====================

    Onto the points asked by OP:

    What's your workplace doing?
    Mandated 50% in office - unless there are formal agreements worked out. Vast majority of my team has opted for the latter and with supportive line management, we've worked out a split that is best for our circumstancs.

    Has it changed recently?
    Nope. There is a realisation that there is a real risk of losing high-skilled staff; remember Australia has a very constrained labour market with fairly middling wages for high demand professions. The cost of backfill/role readvertisement and recruiting is absolutely enormous.

    What's the vibe among the staff?
    If WFH is abolished, the team will very quickly lose staff. I can see a fair few organisations in the space who have constrained budgets, offer full remote to gain a competitve advantage to take advantage of the missteps of the big orgs (e.g. the big 4 banks).

    In [present time], would you look to change jobs if required to be in the office full time?
    At the same pay, yes. For me to be in the office full-time, my salary would have to increase by about 20%. My team/role has always been working an unofficial WFH split well before COVID. We also work flex hours based on individual situations.

    What industry are you in? What's your role?
    Specialised IT (Cyber security). Operational management

    What would your ideal scenario be?
    I am living it.

  • wudsapp on 05/02/2024 - 16:40

    I moved to a startup business that didn't have a permanent office as my previous place didn't offer WFH at all (we got called back to the office full-time after the COVID shutdowns).
    One of the reasons for the move was full WFH availability as they didn't had an office.

    They recently got office space and mandated full-time in the office. One of the reasons was to justify the office rent. We are a small team, and everyone now tries to be in the office even though most prefer to WFH 2-3 days.

    I still can't justify wasting 2 hours on the road + the cost of travel every day of the week. We were working full-time from home and can perfectly do it now.

    I feel pointless to argue with my manager, might change to a more flexible place when it starts really bothering me.

  • lainey13 on 09/02/2024 - 13:20
    +1

    Fully flexible and have zero desire to go into the office. Last year I went in for two office Christmas functions and that was it. "All* roles flex" is the policy and is in my top 3 reasons for staying.

  • welcomeUniverseWorld on 11/02/2024 - 08:52

    My workplace asking us to go to office 1 day in every two weeks. I hate it. Life is so much better working from home. I casually wake up. Drop my kid to Child Care. Come back. Take shower. Start early around 7:30. Finish off by 4 to pick my kid form child care. I can also put my clothes to washer and dirty dishes to dishwasher on time. I can have home cooked meal. And, I get all office work done on time. What is the use of going to office?

    If i have to go to work 1 day every 2 weeks, I am just going to chitchat and do no work on that day. Productivity goes down. And, I lose tons of money due to commute and parking fees. FREAKING STUPID IDEA!

    • kerfuffle on 11/02/2024 - 08:55

      One day a fortnight and you’re still complaining? Be grateful it isn’t one day WFH a week.

      Can always change jobs if going in one day a fortnight is that painful for you.

  • sandman20104159 on 14/06/2024 - 09:15

    i have always and even when covid was around i was always at the office. loved it. no one around but then it became hard to help everyone remotely with their shitty internet at home. i think since 2020 i have worked from home a total of 10 days. and i did not like it at all. all the annoying noise from all the neighbours, cutting grass, digging, cutting trees, kids playing outside and birds… omf god the amount of bird noise during the day… can not stand working from home.

  • PhilosophicalTurtle on 15/06/2024 - 13:30
    +2

    I run a business and it saves me commercial rent money and associated costs including employee satisfaction. I am myself able to look after my personal health better. We are fully remote.

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