Possibly Faulty Traffic Light

Rawrkun on 26/01/2024 - 00:49
Last edited 26/01/2024 - 10:14 by 2 other users

My partner and I was just driving home after dinner earlier, when we came to a red traffic light.

It's a quiet road that we are very familiar with, and normally the light wouldn't take too long to change but this time we waited for more than 7 mins and it's still stuck in red. Thinking that the light was faulty when the road is practically empty for so long, my partner decided to just drive through it and we were caught in the camera, which really suck considering that the double demerit just started.

We have video recording from our dash cam. What are the chances to contest this. Is there any way to check if there's actually something wrong with the light, otherwise we'll just cop it.

Automotive

Comments

  • grog on 26/01/2024 - 00:54
    +38

    Report the fault with the video to your state cops or whoever looks after the lights.

    They will see the 7 minutes and make a decision for you.

    • infinite on 27/01/2024 - 23:41
      +4

      They'll 100% ignore the letter and enforce the fine.

  • jv on 26/01/2024 - 01:05
    +13

    Possibly Faulty Red Camera

    That's why I only buy Black Cameras.

  • MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 01:09
    +62

    Not a chance in hell of getting out of this one.

    I suspect the lack of traffic kept the green lights active for the statistically dominant road and your car failed to trigger the sequence change sensor under the road.

    You should have reversed back (assuming no one else around and safe to do so) to trigger the inductive wire loop under the road.

    If your dashcam provides evidence that you safely attempted this or couldn't because of traffic then you might have a case.

    • Neoika on 26/01/2024 - 06:28
      +1

      This is the correct answer but negged by many.

      Maybe the traffic lights in some other states are not associated with sensor?

    • HeWhoKnows on 26/01/2024 - 08:37
      +10

      Fair call however…..
      Even at night, traffic lights will change automatically after a certain amount of time.
      7 mins is definitely out of the ordinary.
      Usually no more than 3 mins which in itself would seem a long time when waiting at night.

      OP should make a "complaint"
      If no satisfaction elect to get the matter heard in court.
      A judge will see the "common sense" of your actions

      • dcash on 26/01/2024 - 16:17
        +11

        Not true, at least in NSW. A lot will ONLY change based on the induction loop being triggered (or pedestrian crossing being activated).

        • HeWhoKnows on 26/01/2024 - 17:20
          -1

          You dont drive much at night.
          Plenty of times I have been stopped at lights which changed red with nobody waiting.
          Asd I said, you could be waiting for 3 mins if the sensor is not triggered.

          • ATangk on 26/01/2024 - 18:43
            +1

            @HeWhoKnows: As a motorcycle rider, I’ve waited longer. Nothing you can do either, I just avoid routes I know which are like this as much as possible.

            • HeWhoKnows on 27/01/2024 - 10:56
              +1

              @ATangk: Correct
              Quite often motor cycles dont register

          • Bren20 on 26/01/2024 - 20:18
            +12

            @HeWhoKnows: Nah, you're wrong in this one - or at least partially

            Traffic lights will generally not cycle through each phase at night, they will sit on one phase, which is typically the dominant movement at peak times. They will change to service a side road or a turn, then they'll return to the main phase even if there's no demand. This is what is happening when you're seeing lights change for no one, they're returning to their default state.

            • smartazz104 on 27/01/2024 - 18:52
              +1

              @Bren20:

              Traffic lights will generally not cycle through each phase at night, they will sit on one phase, which is typically the dominant movement at peak times

              So op was sitting at a light, with no cars at the other lights, and the system is configured to ignore him basically? Seems stupid.

              • Bren20 on 28/01/2024 - 06:50

                @smartazz104: No

                They will change to service a side road or a turn, then they'll return to the main phase even if there's no demand.

          • dcash on 26/01/2024 - 23:10

            @HeWhoKnows: I'm talking predominantly about night, where lights can sit for half an hour (or more) unchanged, until someone finally comes along to trigger to the induction loop. During the day it's harder to realise this, as there's usually enough traffic that the loop will get triggered at least every few minutes.

            • HeWhoKnows on 27/01/2024 - 10:59
              -1

              @dcash: So actually depends on the road from which you are entering.
              If its a quiet side street then perhaps yes, lights only change when triggered.
              For intersections of more busy roads they run through a time cycle as well.

              • Bren20 on 28/01/2024 - 06:49
                +2

                @HeWhoKnows: No they don't

                • HeWhoKnows on 28/01/2024 - 08:25
                  -2

                  @Bren20: For intersections of more busy roads they certainly do run through a time cycle as well. so I wont argue the point any more because obviously you dont drive at night

        • BargainCowboy on 29/01/2024 - 07:38
          +1

          Depends on the SCATS configuration of that specific intersection. The are higher chances at night this is timed.

          • HeWhoKnows on 30/01/2024 - 12:17

            @BargainCowboy: Correct!
            Its often a bike or lightweight motor cycle dont tigger the sensor.
            or if a car doesnt cross it correctly or stops short of it.
            So there must be a default time for lights to change automatically

    • 7ekn00 on 26/01/2024 - 14:23
      +15

      Or the OPs partner is one that stops 500 feet from the line / sensor :P

      • illusion99 on 27/01/2024 - 05:47
        +1

        How much is that in metres?

        • RSmith on 27/01/2024 - 07:18
          +5

          152.4

        • kaitoivan on 28/01/2024 - 22:14

          About 20 Bunnings sausages

      • Antikythera on 27/01/2024 - 13:18
        +9

        i once sat behind a moron sitting too far back to trigger the right turn arrow for two cycles of the lights.
        not sure how long they had been sitting there before i arrived.
        first cycle i didn't realise.
        second cycle i tooted to try and get them to move closer.
        third cycle i gave up, pulled out of the turning lane, drove through the intersection and did a u-turn instead.
        they were till there as i turned left.
        some say they are still sitting there waiting for the right turn to trigger.

        • poboy on 28/01/2024 - 01:27
          +3

          Can confirm. Camry is still there.

    • dcash on 26/01/2024 - 16:16
      +3

      Speaking of my experience living adjacent to a set of traffic lights in NSW, I can say with authority that sometimes the control systems DO go haywire and completely refuse to change lights for a particular direction, no matter how many times somebody attempts to activate the induction loop. Despite RMS supposedly having a back-to-base communication system for the set of lights in question, it took someone from RMS to physically come and reboot the system before the lights would start changing again. This wasn't a once off. There are also times when it goes haywire and completely ignores the induction loop, and just cycles the lights every 5 seconds or so (i.e. only gives 5 seconds of green to the main road irrespective, when normally it would give at least 30 seconds or longer if nobody had triggered the loop). OPs case may well be that they simply didn't trigger the loop (especially likely if it was late at night when the lights might not change at all without the loop being triggered), but it's also entirely possible the lights were (temporarily) "faulty".

    • Assburg on 26/01/2024 - 17:26
      +3

      The alternative is to go backwards, the wrong way down a road? Terrible advice.

      OP was caught between a rock and a hard place, and did one illegal thing instead of the other. No special knowledge of induction loops is required to drive.

      Worst case scenario, show dashcam footage in court, it'll show you were patient and didn't do anything dangerous. Necessity is a valid defence.

      • MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 17:32
        +6

        Reversing back 1 or 2 Metres when there is no other traffic around (OP's words) is hardly a hazard.

        Road rule 296 makes provisions for reversing when safe to do so and within a reasonable distance.

        FFS

        • Assburg on 26/01/2024 - 19:35
          +4

          Going through an intersection you've been observing for 7 minutes and fully absent of traffic… also going to be safe on grounds of necessity.

          You assume the sensor coil was working, the driver knew how to operate it, and/or they didn't have to reverse far to get out of their predicament.

          Me? I would've got out and pressed pedestrian crossing then got back in but…. 7 minutes is a long time.

    • CommuterPolluter on 27/01/2024 - 15:20
      +9

      In which state are drivers expected to know the correct troubleshooting steps for a faulty traffic light? It wasn’t part of the materials in the state in which I learned to drive, nor covered in the state in which I taught my wife to drive. Seems OP waited long enough to ascertain there was a fault and then crossed safely.

      If this doesn’t get thrown out then OP is being taken for a ride.

      • MS Paint on 27/01/2024 - 22:32

        Genuine questions because I'm legitimately curious.

        Have you ever wondered what triggers a light sequence?
        Have you ever wondered what the grooved squares in the road in the front of every set of lights you approached are?
        Are you a naturally curious person?

        • CommuterPolluter on 27/01/2024 - 22:55
          +3

          Not a particularly curious person, so I was probably a teenager by the time I learned how induction coils are used to detect cars. I’ve never driven over a coil and had it not go off but as a child I’ve heard claims it can happen to bikes. If you’re parked even reasonably close to the line, an operating coil should detect you.

          These coils are just a technology used to operate the lights. It’s not up to road users to diagnose and troubleshoot their failures, especially if that involves reversing on a highway. If it were incumbent on road users to do such, it would be part of the road rules or the driving curriculum.

          If the light isn’t operating properly, and there’s no traffic, you should just proceed with caution.

    • furyou on 27/01/2024 - 22:25

      Yeah, is op one of those that stops way too far back from the line to trigger the sensor?

    • Cave Fire on 28/01/2024 - 13:40

      Yep, very rare but you can find a dodgy one.

  • Sye on 26/01/2024 - 01:20

    Need a MS Paint diagram.

    • MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 09:56
      +44

      🚗 🚦 📸 ⚡ 🎫 💰

      • IpGem on 26/01/2024 - 23:07

        That's too neat for an MS paint work

  • ihfree on 26/01/2024 - 01:22
    +11

    That's one hell of a risk given the camera. I would be choosing a different route if I couldn't trigger the sensor.

    Let us know how you go with reporting the faulty sensor, asking for leniency, or court.

    • Marty131 on 29/01/2024 - 00:36

      How could OP choose a different route once they’ve encountered the stuck red light?

      • ihfree on 29/01/2024 - 00:39
        +2

        Good question… if cars could only move in one direction.

        • Marty131 on 29/01/2024 - 10:14

          So you’re saying reverse + u-turn? What if there was a traffic island in middle of road? I guess unlikely to get caught which is the main objective.

          • ihfree on 29/01/2024 - 10:17

            @Marty131: Only OP would know if that or choosing another route was practical.

            Anyway, as mentioned in this thread, there are solutions other than running a red.

  • hasher22 on 26/01/2024 - 01:28
    +11

    IMO I think you should contest considering if your dash cam is has the evidence of you waiting for more than 7 minutes and you went through when it was safe. But you never know until you try contest.

    I remember it was around 11pm and I waited I recon 6 minutes for a light to go green in a quiet street and I kept creeping up to the point my car was over the line. I just decided to go through the red, ain't nobody got time to wait 6 minutes.

    But if I knew there was a red light camera or speed/red light camera, I would have reversed and look for another route. The time and headache to contest is just so damn annoying.

    • AustriaBargain on 26/01/2024 - 03:20
      +3

      I would have just turned left and done a uturn. Money and points are precious.

  • AustriaBargain on 26/01/2024 - 03:05
    +14

    Did you drive back and forth slightly to trigger the sensor under the road?

  • Davo1111 on 26/01/2024 - 03:31
    +22

    are you one of those drivers that stays back 6m from the line?

    • Neoika on 26/01/2024 - 06:23

      Or the first car before OP stayed too far from the line. I find at several crossroads that the green light will be skipped when there is no vehicle waiting to turn right.

  • Davo1111 on 26/01/2024 - 03:32
    +6

    the fine will say time on red, ie 420 seconds

    • John Kimble on 26/01/2024 - 14:52

      Wouldn't they not issue the fine if it was that long?

      • altomic on 26/01/2024 - 16:03

        the fine will only be $69

        • MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 16:24
          +3

          Still tough to swallow.

      • Davo1111 on 26/01/2024 - 17:44

        Maybe.

    • spaceflight on 26/01/2024 - 23:36

      That doesn't mean the car sat there for the whole time.

      They could have just driven through without trying to stop.

      • Davo1111 on 27/01/2024 - 02:40

        I agree, It would support OPs argument with the dashcam.

  • gomertose on 26/01/2024 - 04:11
    +10

    Why would a "quiet road" have a red light camera?

    If you were very familiar with that road then surely you knew a red light camera was there.

    And the red camera wasn't faulty - sounds like it was working to catch you. =) It's the light change sensor which is the issue.

    I think you have a good case to appeal if you do have the video evidence to back up what you've said.

  • churningNburning on 26/01/2024 - 04:53
    +13

    Post to footage please :D

    • AustriaBargain on 26/01/2024 - 06:35
      +11

      Will be hilarious of OP was stoned and thought 7 seconds was 7 minutes, or fell asleep for 7 minutes and the lights changed 15 times while sleeping.

    • original15 on 26/01/2024 - 08:22
      +8

      Footage paused for exactly 7 mins, car somehow accelerates to 60km/h instantly

      • djones145 on 26/01/2024 - 11:08
        +2

        waited 420 second to accelarate to 69km/h to head to kmart to buy australia day items he saw on kmart mums facebook page, while on the radio to complain about the stage 3 tax changes

  • Euphemistic on 26/01/2024 - 05:49
    +3

    If you actually have 7 minutes of footage at the red light maybe you might be let off. Are you sure it was 7mins and not just an exaggerated perception?

    • cloudy on 26/01/2024 - 23:42
      +2

      exaggerated perception

      That would be 15 mins or 20 mins, 7 sounds like OP rechecked on his dashcam

      • Euphemistic on 27/01/2024 - 06:39

        Yeah. Does sound like they rechecked dash am, which is why I asked. But you might be surprised how many driver cannot guess how long they were waiting. I worked on roads for a while and soo many drivers would tell us they’d been held up for such a long time when we knew it was 2-3minutes. 5e guesses were often rounded to a 5, but often random other numbers too.

        It’s possible the check the clock when they went though, but forgot what time they arrived or a myriad of other things.

        • cloudy on 27/01/2024 - 22:19

          But you might be surprised how many driver cannot guess how long they were waiting

          yea thats why i said 15 or 20 mins, time perception is hard when you're sitting doing nothing but stare at a red light.

  • Zippy135 on 26/01/2024 - 06:36
    +20

    I wouldn’t have risked it. I’ve gotten out and pressed the pedestrian crossing button before to trigger the traffic lights to change.

    • lachhelix on 26/01/2024 - 18:14

      Ingenious

    • illusion99 on 27/01/2024 - 05:50

      What if the intersection didn’t have a pedestrian crossing?

    • kawinuyo on 27/01/2024 - 11:14

      I've done this before! But I was the passenger in the car.

  • mapax on 26/01/2024 - 06:49
    +1

    Good luck OP.

  • randomusername2017 on 26/01/2024 - 07:44

    just drive through it

    Special🎖️

  • elgrande on 26/01/2024 - 07:45
    +8

    I wouldnt have driven through - I would have pulled over to the side of the road and placed a for sale sign on my window and walked home.

  • JIMB0 on 26/01/2024 - 07:51

    There's a law about being able to run a red light if it doesn't change after 10 minutes. Looks like you're getting a fine.

    • Baysew on 26/01/2024 - 09:34
      +1

      Have you got a source for that law?

      • JIMB0 on 26/01/2024 - 10:27

        Nah. I remember reading about it years ago when I looking into why the traffic lights don't activate when riding a bike. Thinking about it further it may have been on a US website, but I'm sure they'd have something similar in Australia.

        • MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 10:42

          There is a law in Australia that says you can proceed (when safe to do so) if the traffic lights are flashing or simply not on.

          • CommuterPolluter on 27/01/2024 - 15:35

            @MS Paint: Yes that’s Victorian regulations. Not operating or partly operating. Also not operating or flashing yellow. It’s unclear if this is deemed not operating by the regulations but I would assume so.

        • GordonD on 26/01/2024 - 10:56
          +1

          when I looking into why the traffic lights don't activate when riding a bike

          Years ago I had a light motorcycle that didn't have enough magnetic metal in it to be detected by traffic light sensor loops. Regularly had to get off the bike, and go press the pedestrian button.

          • JIMB0 on 26/01/2024 - 11:29
            +1

            @GordonD: It doesn't need to be magnetic. Just position your wheels on the edge/corner of the loop and lean the bike slightly into it. Worked everytime once I figured this out.

            • TEER3X on 27/01/2024 - 08:48

              @JIMB0: That's a life hack that needs to be posted on Reddit or somewhere

      • R-Man on 26/01/2024 - 22:00
        +3

        It's right under the law about how you can leave your class if the teacher doesn't turn up in 5 minutes

  • pegaxs on 26/01/2024 - 08:13
    +20

    You’ll get the ticket, just write a letter outlining what happened and that you took all precautions before crossing after waiting 7 mins and you have video proof of you waiting if they wish to view it.

    They will reject your letter because the government needs their slice of your revenue contributions, so your next step is to go to court and plead your case to a magistrate. Plead guilty, but with a reason (because you did it), and the magistrate will hear you out. Take your evidence with you. Explain that you waited 7 mins and there was no sign that the lights were ever going to change, it was quiet and you took all the precautions you would as if it were a stop sign. You stopped, waited (7 mins) assessed that no cars were coming and you proceeded across only when safe to do so.

  • John Kimble on 26/01/2024 - 08:29
    +1

    I almost did something like this a few years ago. Was about to go through the red after waiting a few minutes and noticing both directions were red…turns out it was a motorcade for Prince William and Kate and they changed the lights! Close call!

    I wonder if one of the many police motorcycles or cop would have bothered to stop to book me though…

    • MS Paint on 26/01/2024 - 10:11
      +5

      That would have been 2014

  • skid on 26/01/2024 - 08:57

    u wot, m8?

  • Dollar General on 26/01/2024 - 09:02
    +5

    Go back to the scene of the crime today and see if the lights are functioning correctly today. We can’t tell you based on the lack of info provided

    • xuqi on 26/01/2024 - 14:41
      +5

      Please, no, op may likely end up with a 2nd fine….

    • Nebargains on 28/01/2024 - 13:31

      It could very well be fine today.

      An intersection near me occasionally stuffs up and you can end up sitting there through 4-5 sets of lights before getting a turning arrow. Then seemingly will just work fine after that. Happened a few times, one time I probably sat there for 8-9 mins before leaving the turning lane, driving up further and doing a U-Turn. Probably would have done it sooner but it was peak hour and a busy road .

  • payless69 on 26/01/2024 - 09:06
    +5

    You should have walked behind the car obscuring your plates?

    • TEER3X on 27/01/2024 - 08:49

      Which car?

  • EightImmortals on 26/01/2024 - 09:08
    +2

    Wait, so you knew there was a camera there and you still went through?

    I have no problems going through lights that don't change but never if there is a camera around. Try reversing your car over the road censor, or getting out and pushin the cross button, anything to get things moving.

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