https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0Xg-XBBKTF/?igshid=MzRlODBiN…
For those who don’t watch this, Mary furiously confronts a tram passenger for not tapping her Myki.
Was Mary right here?
Myki Fare Evasion - Chaos in Tram - Who Is Right?
Keegz on 04/12/2023 - 14:26
Last edited 04/12/2023 - 14:40
Last edited 04/12/2023 - 14:40
Poll Options
- 395Mary is wrong - mind your business
- 157Mary is right - stealing is a crime
Comments
Don't forget the dailymail which is also full of garbage
If the news was related to a pornstar/only fans/ etc., news.com.au will be all over it.
Maybe Mary was advertising her onlyfans?
"green jacket, gold jacket…" 😄
🍿
Mary Christmas
Mary had made a great point about supporting public transport.
But then she got all upset- so right from the "f#!*ing don't ignore me, b$#@!" just gets written off as another angry white person beating up on someone for her own reasons (either some weird retired eshay, someone upset about ethnicity, or any one of a number of other unjustifiably angry motivations others won't respect)
No she doesnt.
Like most people Mary doesnt know or understand how to do maths.
Firstly public transport is about serving the community not about pretending to be a business collecting fares. IN AU, all public transport runs at a massive loss, the amounts from fares is a joke and a minor portion of the actual monies to run the buses, trains, etc. If the govs made public transport free, it would actually save the country a shitload of money. While public transport costs money, it costs far more money by many factors to support roads, tunnels etc.
Take the Rozelle intersection, thats $4B wasted because people want to drive cars. If trains and buses were free, most of those people could be on public transport. Because ubuses for example have to wait for people to line up and scan their ticket etc, this slows down the bus which means less people catch them. The smat thing would be to let everyone on buses for free, then they wouldnt need to build the rozelle interchange because buses would be twice as quick and there would be significantly fewer cars.
How do i know because when i caught a bus and the drivers refused to collect fares the bus took half the time to the city. Its a joke that the gov wastes time collecting the $2 from pensioners, just let them on the bus and train and leave them alone in peace.
If the govs made public transport free, it would actually save the country a shitload of money.
What's the logic to this?
@CrowReally: Read my previous comment and then correct any of my statements as you wish.
Its all true and the real waste of collecting fares is actually far worse in terms of money and time wasted.
I gave one example of Rozelle, there are many others all over the place.
@CowFrogHorse: The "collecting fares is slow" is basically irrelevant (it's all tap on with opal card/Myki now granddad).
Even if making buses free made them operate faster, that doesn't make them "cost less"? They still use the same fuel, have the same driver and still keep to the same timetable?
We can agree that public transport is a public good that runs at a loss (let's say fares only cover 70% of the entire cost). Why would reducing that % to 0 "save money"? It just means you lose even more money.
Now, on good faith, explain your argument/logic. I'm willing to be convinced but "if we stopped collecting fees entirely we would have more money" is counter intuitive.
@CrowReally: crow: The "collecting fares is slow" is basically irrelevant
cow: its slower than not collecting any fares at all.
Whats faster having a few gates or having the entire are open with no queues of any kind ?
~
crow: Even if making buses free made them operate faster, that doesn't make them "cost less"? They still use the same fuel, have the same driver and still keep to the same timetable?
cow: you arent looking a the BIG PICTURE.
Those machines, the contracts to service and run them are not free. Its easy to verify the true cost of this setup is actually barely covered by the fares they collect.
Secondly pissing people away from public transport means they will drive a car.
Guess how much expanding the roads and to support more cars costs ?
Every person you save driving on the roads and using public transport is MONEY saved. The gov in Sydney ( i m from there so i will use that as a reference) is spending tens of Billions on MORE roads, tunnels etc. They will never get that money back., simply because in another 5- 10 years the traffic will increase and there will be projects to build more of the same again costing more tens of Billions.
WHen you are wasting tens of billions on car stuff, what is actually cheaper ?
Making public transport free and losing a few million in fares or pissing people off and spending tens of billions on roads ?
~
crow: Why would reducing that % to 0 "save money"? It just means you lose even more money.
cow: Because you are concentrating on collecting a few hundreds million at most, when this same action is costing tens of billions on road projects.
Sometimes its not worth trying to be smart because you actually lose in the end.
Nobody is making money collecting $2 from pensioners, same for kids going to school and bus pases etc, its just stupid.
@CowFrogHorse: This is the sort of incoherence I've come to expect.
Faster or more frequest buses doesn't cost less, it costs more (more fuel for starters).
Also, the cost of buses isn't what's keeping people from using them.. they're using more expensive private cars because they want the freedom to go where they want, when they want. A $2.80 fare isn't the reason why people are instead paying $2.00 a litre for fuel for their own car.
You're also yet to show the "fare collecting costs" part of the equation is a significant part of the cost. How do you know how much is costs to have Myki/opal? Prove your work.
@CrowReally: crow: This is the sort of incoherence I've come to expect.
cow: big words considering your reply is full of inventing words i never claimed. What do you call a person who calls someone names, and then begins by lying about what they said ?
crow: Also, the cost of buses isn't what's keeping people from using them.. they're using more expensive private cars because they want the freedom to go where they want, when they want. A $2.80 fare isn't the reason why people are instead paying $2.00 a litre for fuel for their own car.
cow: did i said the cost of public transport is what is keeping them ?
All i said is if you make public transport easier and quicker more people will use it. Thats my point.
@CrowReally: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/myki-operator-lo…
The Andrews government announced on Monday that it had signed a $1.7 billion contract for US specialist Conduent to take over from current myki operator NTT Data and run the system for the next 15 year
Thats $120M a year just for the software ?
How much is it for the maintenance of the machiens ?
What about replacement of machines ?
When u actually write down all the costs against the income its just not worth it, and im not even trying to make a complete list.
@CowFrogHorse: There are 100s if not 1000s of people selling tickets, answering questions about fares on phones, trouble shooting myki probs etc…
Again at a cost of $100K for each, staff cost isnt just hte person, theres managers, HR, offices etc, thats tens of millions there, every year.
EDIT should be 150K for each.
@CowFrogHorse: So your theory is not only are the fares collected insufficient to cover the entire costs of the network, they're also insufficient to cover the costs of collecting the fares themselves?
Is that why external contractors are bidding to provide this service, because they're eager to get involved in an idea that's guaranteed to cost them money?
Have you found any adults that work in an office environment or with figures that agree with your ideas?
@CrowReally: crow: So your theory is not only are the fares collected insufficient to cover the entire costs of the network, they're also insufficient to cover the costs of collecting the fares themselves?
cow: i never claimed that at all.
Im simply stating its not worth the bother to collect them.
- Im saying the benefits of improved travel times and people movement through stataions and buses is of more value.
- Im also saying these improvements in travel times, will encourage people off the roads, which again saves the gov money because they dont have to build as many tunnels, roads etc.
These factors will save tens of billions compared to any tens mof millions in profit from fare collection.
@CowFrogHorse: In your head you're assigning values to things that don't translate to reality ("there's more value in having more free buses than collecting fares on the existing ones"), which I am basically fine with because those untested ideas can stay in your head with no harm done.
But: More public transport means less roads and less tunnels? How does that work?
Won't those roads and tunnels be needed by public transport to get the people to wherever it was they had to go?
@CrowReally: crow: Have you found any adults that work in an office environment or with figures that agree with your ideas?
cow: Do you know how to read ?
Next time you claim i said something how about you learn to copy and paste in your reply what i actually said.
Given all you can do is call people names, its hardly a shock you also lie not once but multiple times. Keep up the childish work.
@CowFrogHorse: Seriously, just some adults in a business setting.
Your ideas (like cars being boring boxes and no one needs managers and everyone should live next to where they work) are the sorts of things people who haven't experienced adulthood or the real world come up with.
It's impractical but it's also weird.
And also, in addition to those things, they're bad ideas.
@CrowReally: @Crow
For being so superior one has to wonder why your responses are basically all personal attacks and lies.
Surely someone as brilliant as yourself could actually attack my statements with facts, but no the best you can do is call me names.
crow: Seriously, just some adults in a business setting.
cow: So because you say so that makes it true ?
crow: Your ideas (like cars being boring boxes
cow: Prove me wrong. On the weekend, instead of staying home or doing whatever you like, go sit in your car ALL day both days.
crow:
and no one needs managers and everyone should live next to where they work)cow: More dishonety.
What did i actually say ?
QUOTE ME.
I did not actually say those words.
You obviously dont appreciate how to actually read something accurately, you yet again misrepresent what is said.
Heres i made a comment and yet again you lied three times, making statements i never said. I asked you to actually address my thoughts, and like a coward you run away.
WHy cant you actually address my points above ?
Because you cant.
crow: It's impractical but it's also weird.
cow: Yet again like a child you demand that your point of view is correct because you say so.
No numbers, facts from anywhere or reasons.
Just a little kid jumping up and down…
crow:
And also, in addition to those things, they're bad ideas.cow:
THey are bad because ?Can you actually write fully formed sentences like an adult giving actual reasons.
Come back when you can.
@CowFrogHorse: You've always come across as confused and either wilfully misunderstanding (or lacking the ability to understand) the points people made.
Earlier this year during "cars are boring boxes: the novel" I (among others) challenged the black and white thinking and it's always ending up in something like
Oh YEAH well if CARS ARE not boring WHY NOT SIT IN IT ALL WEEKEND FOR 40 HOURS
Something a (slightly deficient) kid would probably yell out. As though everyone has been saying things like "oh yeah, I want to spend every single possible moment of my life doing this".
And ignoring the obvious error in the assumption (alright buddy, you spend the entire weekend on a bus and let us know how great a time you had, if cars are boring but buses are not).
And then you accuse other people of misquoting you or personal attacks, as though that isn't your default (I'm assuming you referring to me as a 'little kid jumping up and down' isn't a suggestion I have a lot of youthful energy).
Maybe it's time for you to take accountability for your words?
@CrowReally: I gave you some numbers like you said… how about you do the same ?
Show us the maths and benefits do a reasonable benefits and costs analysis….
Dont reply with i think its bad, try and write something with actual facts and links and summaries.@CowFrogHorse: Fair enough, let's make some assumptions and see how your proposed system holds up.
Taking revenue as only meeting 70% of transport costs and we will say collecting fares are 15% of total overall costs.
Let's say fares are $70m revenue, total transport costs are $100m (but that is split $85m core-transport costs and $15m "fare-collecting" costs).
Right now the transport system is running at a $30m loss ($70m revenue minus $100m costs).
What happens if we cut out the fare collection and associated costs?
We're now running at a $85m loss (zero revenue minus $85m bus costs).
Look at that, we've (almost) tripled how much the public transport system costs. And we aren't going to triple the amount of users because it's still not as convenient as being able to drive wherever you want, whenever you want.
People aren't avoiding the bus because $2.80 is too much, they're avoiding it because the bus isn't going where they want to go when they want to go.
And that's why it's a bad idea.
@CrowReally: crow: Let's say fares are $70m revenue, total transport costs are $100m (but that is split $85m core-transport costs and $15m "fare-collecting" costs).
cow: have you even tried to google some numbers ? Its almost like your not even trying. Your numbers are not even remotely realistic.
https://www.zoominfo.com/c/sydney-trains/405956021
Website
transport.nsw.gov.au/sydneytrains/about-sydney-trains
Sydney Trains Revenue
Revenue$1.6B
https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/staggering-cos…
The report states passengers fares and other revenue covers just 10 per cent of the cost of providing some of the state’s transport services. Even the best performing mode of transport, ferries, still relies on Government funding to cover half its operation cost.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/myki-operator-lo…
The Andrews government announced on Monday that it had signed a $1.7 billion contract for US specialist Conduent to take over from current myki operator NTT Data and run the system for the next 15 years.
Thats $120M just for the software each and every year.
…
Thats right the fares only cover 10% of the cost. I shared real numbers of exxamples of the costs and revenues. Im asking you, given free no fares of any kind means significantly faster buses and faster more efficient train stations why bother even worrying about the 10% ?
Less cars on the road means less tunnel, road costs for the gov. The gov is spending tens of B on roads. If we cut this in half, by giving free faster public transport isnt that smart ?
50B saving vs $500 cost of free fares ?
Which is smarter ?
@CowFrogHorse: My numbers were percentage based…if anything your quoted numbers prove my 15% farecosts are way too high (remember you are comparing mIllions of costs with bIllions of revenue)
Guess what happens when you stop collecting 1.6 billion in fares to save (say) 160 million in fare collection costs? You have an additional billion dollar loss.
Well done.
(profanity) obvious, isn't it? Well, to everyone but you.
@CrowReally: crow: My numbers were percentage based…
cow: Yes but WHERE did you get the percentages ?
YOu didnt even take the time to google and share a link which shows you are talking bullshit.
~
crow: if anything your quoted numbers prove my 15% farecosts are way too high (remember you are comparing mIllions of costs with bIllions of revenue)
cow: How ?
Try and put some effort in making a statement, make your point, share evidence, and give reasons. You have done nothign here. Stop being a slacker and put the effort to write more then 10 words.
~
crow: Guess what happens when you stop collecting 1.6 billion in fares to save (say) 160 million in fare collection costs? You have an additional billion dollar loss.
cow: Wow some people cant read.
I told you yes i accept losing fare collection is a loss. You completely ignore the fact thaat by moving people from cars to public transport the gov saves tens of billions in road projects.
Again lose $500M in fare collection and save $50B in more road projects.
Try and deny this basic fact, i already shared the example of rozelle interchange in Sydney and how public transport costs a few millions but saves billions in the stupir project.
@CowFrogHorse: If you think there's $500million in fare revenue that can be dumped to save $50billion in road costs you're clueless and likely innumerable.
@CrowReally: Crow: If you think there's $50million in fare revenue that can be dumped to save $50billion in road costs you're clueless and likely innumerable.
cow: Because ?
I gave the example of Rozelle, you haven t even tried to refute that.
Look how paathetic your reply is, again back to you are wrong because i say so. You cant even write two sentences because youa re a slacker and lazy. Too slack to google and share links for anything, and too lazy to actually give a reason, all your reasoning is a stupid insult.
@CowFrogHorse: You know what? If it's that simple, write it in a two or three paragraph letter to the transport Minister.
If I see your name on the news in a month as the hero of the state who just saved us all $50billion a yea, we will both know you were right.
If we dont see that, we can file it in the bin with the rest of your ideas.
@CrowReally: crow: People aren't avoiding the bus because $2.80 is too much, they're avoiding it because the bus isn't going where they want to go when they want to go.
cow: The rozelle intersection goes straight to the city. there are buses on the same road going to the same destination. Buses waste a lot of time because of people tapping on and off. Take away this slowness and you gain many patrons. Extra buses cost millions, building tunnels and interchanges to service the equivalent load of people in cars, cost Billions.
Of course there are places the buses and trains dont go, but there are many examples of large portions of people that do goto the same palces that public transport can take them. I have shared one example where tens of thosuands of people could be taking public transport but take cars.
Case closed.
Of course there are places the buses and trains dont go, but there are many examples of large portions of people that do goto the same palces that public transport can take them.
Alright, let's take them on a case by case basis and see where the savings on roads and tunnels you've been telling us about comes from
People going places the buses don't go: nope, they're still going to need to go to those places, so those roads and tunnels will still be used exactly as much
People going places where buses do right now: yup, they will continue to use the same roads. You might get a small amount convert from cars to buses but the only thing you have changed are people previously had to decide "my own car or $2.80" are now offered "my own car or free".
This is a vanishingly small number. Because if it suited these people to sacrifice the freedom and autonomy to use the bus to go to where they heading anyway… They would be heading there on the bus anyway.
No one is swapping that freedom for a saving of $2.80
The only people your idea would suit would be people lacking autonomy. Maybe the sort of person who has a lot of the important decisions in their life made for them, and they see cars (that they are driven in) as boring boxes because they're stuck in the passenger seat. The sort that likely lives in a group home, and doesn't get much interaction with real people so they don't understand how things work.
Someone sheltered and dim and clueless and incoherent.
Do you know anyone like that? Because I do.
@CrowReally: crow: People going places the buses don't go: nope, they're still going to need to go to those places, so those roads and tunnels will still be used exactly as much
cow: You dont appreciate numbers. A lot of people of course goto places that public transport cant help, but a lot of people goto places public transport can help.
Im talking about getting wins and reducing road and related infra structure costs for duplication that can be served by public transport.
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crow: No one is swapping that freedom for a saving of $2.80
cow: How about you address my focus of replacing roads with public transport where possible. Why cant we help those cases.
~
crow: Someone sheltered and dim and clueless and incoherent.
cow: Big words considering you cant grasp thge concept of googling and share links with quotes to actual facts.
I gave you a real example about rozelle and you completely refuse to mention or critique my analysis, because you cant. You are too small minded to see the big picture.
@CowFrogHorse: No worries champ, phone up the transport minister and share the big picture with them. It's clearly beyond my scope and paygrade (but not yours, thankfully).
If you're right, they'll agree with you and it'll happen.
Alternately they'll tell you you're useless and have no idea what you're talking about (and they'll agree with me).
@CrowReally: crow: Wow.
Its amazing how intellectual you are..
Every single answer is the same a childish insult, because of course you are a god and everything you say is right without evidence naturally.
You are so pathetic you couldnt even google to get the numbers for Sydney or Mel or any other train system in AU. Then agin it myst be difficult to read those reports, even when the answer is in the first two paragraphs. Everything is just too hard for little crow, kind of strange he would have such low gutter standards considering crows are actually pretty smart and rarely
hang out in the gutter where they can get hit by a car.@CowFrogHorse: Your transport ideas are so coherent and correct you can spend hours arguing on a forum about them to me, someone who doesn't work in the industry
But it's not worthwhile spending ten minutes asking the experts if they will work/to go and do them?
Is it because you know they know what they're talking about?
Don't worry, they're a government department, they're not going to send you a letter saying disdainful things like "$50 BILLION??? do you even know how much we spend on roads, you dipshit?" or "cool ideas, professor, we will let you get back to your expert subjects (masturbation/drooling)".
They're going to be very professional and thank you for your interest. You won't even get a whiff of them thinking you're a crank. I can guarantee the first words in the letter won't be "Dear Under-Medicated (profanity)".
It'll be fine. Now prove to yourself that you think your ideas aren't shit and tell an adult in the government about them.
@CrowReally: Assume that the idea is that the cost of collection and enforcement of fares exceeds the value of the fares collected.
Idk good on Mary
Somewhere in the middle - we do live in a society and it is important to call out anti social behaviour. On the other hand, she is going over the top.
There's also probably an argument around funding for public transport and making it appeal over other forms of transport.
She claims in the video she had already hit the max fare for the day so it wouldn't make a difference. The tram operator would probably still want people to tap though so they can know how many people actually use that route at that time.
But I think all public transport should be free. Most commutes are going to and from work or the shops, so just tax businesses to pay for the public transport, and use an AI camera to track usage. There's too much traffic on the road and not enough cars to go around which is inflating even beater car prices, so the more people who catch public transport the fewer cars there needs to be, which makes things better for drivers.
In NSW public transport is heavily subsidised already (my understanding is the government makes a "heavy loss").
Public transport can never be "free" (it's never free, the taxpayer pays, what we mean would be "no out of pocket"), otherwise people will just abuse it, use it for the fun of it because it's no out of pocket for them. My understanding is it happened once that they made one Sunday a completely free day for ?Sydney Trains quite a few years ago and the system shat itself with the inability to cope with the huge influx. (Don't quote me on it)
God forbid people leave their own homes for fun. And catching a tran for fun has to be better than driving around for fun.
@AustriaBargain: It's about the psychology of people using something unessasarily because they're perceived to be "free". You're missing this original argument. Another example would be: The government is allowing petrol to be "free" for a day, so everyone would just fill up and drive on the streets for the fun of because they perceive it as "free" and "no cost to them". You can't counter that argument by saying "God forbid people leave their own homes for fun, and driving around for fun had to be better than staying at home and playing video games for fun". You're not really attacking the argument.
The government is allowing petrol to be "free" for a day, so everyone would just fill up and drive on the streets for the fun of because they perceive it as "free" and "no cost to them".
I wonder how many people would spend the whole day on public transport just "because it was free". Public transport keeps running regardless if there's 1 person in the carriage or if there's 100 people in the carriage. There's been a lot of push to get people out of cars and onto public transport as well, so would it be a bad thing to encourage more people onto PT?
@Deridas: But how is someone driving their car by themselves for fun better than them catching the bus or tram for fun? Surely getting the car off the road is better for society.
It's about the psychology of people using something unessasarily because they're perceived to be "free".
While we (Sydney) had Sunday Funday - $2.50 cap, what I suspect you were referring to when you said
My understanding is it happened once that they made one Sunday a completely free day for
we would more than occasionally go for a trip to town, get the ferry to anywhere, etc. The end result was were were getting out, living a healthier Sunday than just vegging on the couch on the phone, spending money at retailers on our journeys, etc. Sure, we still go out when we want to, but there is just that lesser enticement to do so, we're burning more fuel to do it, we're not making impromptu connections with others, etc. That's not abuse, that's just good use.
@Deridas: The government basically makes 90% of all roads to be free, and look at the disaster that is.
But people are dumb and they dont see how much of their lives they are wasting sitting in a car.
@Deridas: @Deridas
You completely ignore the much bigger freebie the government gives too big businesses and cars.
WHy is the gov spending tens of billions on trains and train stations and tunnels to bring people into the sydney cbd ?
Central station = $2B
Each metro station $500M
Tunnels for metro $5B
renovations in various cbd stations an other $1B.Why is the gov spending $10B in trains to bring in workers and customers into the Sydney CBD ? I havent even mentioned the cost of road projects into sydney which are more billions.
WHy are those businesses get such a freebie ?
How many people work in the CBD ?
Is it smart to spend $10B to give 10k people a job ?
How much is each city job costing tax payers ?
Yea the weekend where the Government made public transport free wasn't due to abuse, it was because made a trip out of it to the city and surrounds that they otherwise wouldn't have, which lead to increased economic activity after COVID. IIRC it was only the ferries that had a meltdown, but tbh they're always having a meltdown.
Have you been to Luxembourg?
Free public transport throughout the entire (small) country.
@movieman: Absolutely.
Public transport is a hell of a lot cheaper without ticketing.
No ticket:
Inspectors, so staff can do higher duties like security, maintenance, cleaning, customer service.
Sellers
Offices
Ticket machines
Management, financing and administrationAdd to that no time wasted waiting for people to pay on buses, tap on/off, queuing, all time wasted every day in every place
No costs running and managing 24/7 tracking of customers
No collection, 'securing' or abuse of private data (breadcrumbs, tracking, opportunities for behavioural analysis, etc.)NSW transport spent a decade trying to implement the predecessor to Opal, all of it (Millions) written off after which they spent up big on Opal!
Apart from making the service faster, safer, and better, could perhaps run more buses and trains! And increases happiness, and tourism, access, personal freedoms (esp for the young), etc.
@resisting the urge: THere was a story about the ticketting machines in the paper about a new contract for the provider. It was something like over a $100M per year just to run the damn machines. There are many other costs which are also not listed, like the hundreds of managers who give themselves pay rises because they are managing those damn machines.
No machines means faster movement of people and that also means people have time for better things in life.
The government is basically losing lots of money by running ticketting systems. Sure its collecting a few dollrs, but the cost to collect that money is not worth it. For example every single station on the wollongong line is most deinitely running at a loss. Its plain dumb to have a machine worth tens of thosuands and paying thousands a week to collect a few dollars in coins.
Another example of waste is renovations of town hall. All that nosnense of rearranging exits etc is only necessary because the gates slow people movement. Town hall costs hundeds of millions all the ticket sales for 20 years involving Town Hall wont even cover that cost. Same story for Redfern, Central and more.
@CowFrogHorse: Good perspective, thanks @CowFrogHorse.
The fact that this happens in nearly all aspects of public administration at a State, Federal, and International level, should be enough to shake the nation/humanity to its core.
Why leave our institutions the way they are if they continually fail to do the stuff that needs doing and just spend all their (our) resources on doing things that don't need doing or should be done differently, plus improved again over and over instead of incrementally turned into slow-moving siloed bureaucracies- without expecting our leaders to drive improvement and modernisation, these become black holes collecting all of our initiative. And are literal money pits, increasing leaching energy and resources, and partly why the young are being denied access to resources (especially public data as it shows this).
Of course it can be free, you havent actually given a reason except a one off example. One offs are not how things are measured or can be judged. Just because a car blows up doesnt mean all cars blow up, one needs more samples.
But I think all public transport should be free.
Agreed.
As long as government continues to use PTV as a public employment service instead of a public transportation service we will have over inflated ticket prices and a very shit service.
How does Mary know that the passenger hasn't tapped on somewhere else (or already hit the daily fare limit)?
this is whats wrong with society, guess more people need to strike to get a pay rise while the few f*k around
what? (Is your reply meant to be for another comment?)
Mary like most people here are small minded and not asking the real question… why not make the public transport free.
It doesn't matter if she hits the daily limit, the fare isn't valid unless you have tapped on for that trip as that's how Miki distributes funds to the individual private operators.
If an inspector jumps on and scans your Miki and you haven't tapped on for that trip, you don't have a valid ticket.If an inspector jumps on and scans your Miki and you haven't tapped on for that trip, you don't have a valid ticket.
If what you're saying is correct, I would've been fined every time an inspector checked my myki….(…but my record is clean!).
I know that the brochure says that you should tap on, but most people know that once a ticket is activated, it's valid. This goes back to the days where you could buy individual paper tickets and dip it into the machine once at the start of the trip to activate it. There was no point queuing at the machine to dip it in again on the next 'vehicle".
Some ticket inspectors are just nice and let it slide, but you are meant to.
Keep in mind, daily caps can change, such as travelling into another Zone, or the 2 hour cap or daily cap.
Eg, Zone 2 daily cap is $6, you can use it all day in Zone 2, but this can change to a Zone 1 + 2 daily cap of $10 as soon as you travel into Zone 1 and if you didn't tap on they really can't know this, hence why it's better to just always tap on (obviously this isn't so true if you are travelling in Zone 1 and have already tapped on and hit the Zone 1 + 2 daily cap).
There is also the 2 hour cap or daily cap, so it's not activated for the whole day on any number of taps within 2 hours.
It's also a great way for them to allocate more or less PT in certain areas, as they know how many paying passengers are travelling on each route.
Imagine I have been travelling all day on Metro Trains, then suddenly I board a bus and don't tap on, the bus operator gets nothing for my trip, even though it didn't cost me any more.
Anyway, glad you haven't been fined :)
Mary should mind her own business, it's not her job and no body owes her an explanation.
What if the individual is an employee and get's free Public transport services etc, or other reasoning, either way, not required to explain to some random
she's not though
Wow. Mary used profanity on train and on the record too. Hope this won't be used against her.
She’s probably a retired Authorised Officer….
Husband is a tram driver more likely
That'd be more 'fun'.. she's lost that little power she had before to demand ID, so she can stand there yelling and screaming as much as she wants.
jv?
Mind your business, Mary.
She could have maybe pointed it out once, but to keep going on and start swearing and hurling abuse makes Mary the aggressor here.
Also, you never know what other people have going on in their lives. Maybe this person just walked on without thinking because a family member just died, maybe they need to go somewhere for a medical appointment and cannot afford it and are feeling shameful enough already.
Everyone elses lives is just as complex if not more so than yours. They don't need some Karen, sorry, Mary, to pick on them.
Guarantee Mary also yells are people who cross the road not at the cross lights.
people who cross the road not at the cross lights.
This is not an offence?
IIRC it's not an offence if it's beyond a certain distance from the lights, like 50m.
But in any case, who cares? It's not your business to police other people. Don't get involved in what others do unless doing so would help in some way or prevent an actual crime. Just jog on, it's not like you can say you've NEVER crossed somewhere other than the lights.
A functioning society requires a set of rules and people obeying the rules. A society breaks down if the rules holding a society are not respected.
For example, we are not to murder, so that's a rule, if we see a murder we (in theory) call out on it, because the world "may" be a safer place if the murderer is not on the streets. The rules are we should tap on at a tram, so if we see someone not tap on, we (in theory) call out on it, because for every person who doesn't tap on, the taxpayer has to fork out the shortfall. It doesn't matter if they're going to a medical appointment, or a family member just died, they should be tapping on and off.
To what stage we police it or to turn a blind eye is a matter of discussion, but regardless of how we police it, we have the right to expect people to tap on and off because that's the rules. Whether we want to exercise that right is the discussion, it still doesn't invalid that we have the right (and in the right) if we choose to call it out.
doesn't invalid that we have the right (and in the right) if we choose to call it out.
So you are perfectly fine with the expletive laden screaming from this woman brought against the other person for not tapping on?
A simple comment would have sufficed, this took it a step further.
because for every person who doesn't tap on, the taxpayer has to fork out the shortfall.
Oh yeah yeah. That few dollars is really breaking the budget compared to the millions being skipped out on by large corporations, why not lay that sort of energy at their feet? Oh wait, it's easier to just yell at some poor sod on the train and feel all high and mighty..
@Deridas: People don't have the right to abuse or harass others tho. Call out is a new concept and shit. You can say something, but don't presume to be all knowing and try and loudly say it in a way that also includes others witnessing. Do you think calling out happenings in private and one on one situations? I doubt it. Noone there to help you hear the crowd clapping in your head.
Society needs rules AS WELL AS understanding, exceptions and flexibility.
It would matter if their family member just died or medical issue, you should be able to empathize with those situations to understand why that should provide understanding, not rule adherence and call outs.@Deridas: Nah mate, in this country if you call out injustice then you get thrown in prison for whistleblowing.
It's frankly unaustralian to call out injustice, just turn a blind eye and pretend it never happened like everyone else.
@Deridas: @Deridas
You need to ask why do we need a ticketing system ..?
You need to question the actual benefits of doing so, especially the question of money.
A simple analysis and look at government numbers will show ticketting systems actually cost far more than the money they supposedly collect.
I think there's a million other reasons for calling out people in public instead of the heinous crime of not touching on a myki.
This person's $3-5 (whatever it is) not being spent on her Myki isn't really hurting anyone. Ticket Inspectors exist for a reason sure, but I'd let them do that job.
I hope she went after the 10 people who got on who didn't touch on either, otherwise seems like a targeted attack.
Ticket evasion hurts everyone indirectly. Higher prices, less upgrades to network and paying more money for ticket inspectors who generally can barely scratch the surface of fare evasion.
Yeah na, Kamco / NTT Data can suck a fat one.
Nearly 2 decades of BS and they pocketed $2 billion.
As opposed to now, where many people do pay and the network is constantly being upgraded and prices are falling…
Public transport should be free
You really have been brainwashed by the bullshit managers who run the transport systems of AUstralia.
It does not hurt the government at all. Collecting fares is a stupidity that costs more money than its worth.
Do you know how much those machines cost, the upgrades, the cost of collecting monies, fixing the card reader on a rregular basis etc ?
9 out of 10 stations barely get 50 people a day, it costs MORE to service the machine than the value of the fares sold. Secondly those stupid machines mean the government is constantly wasting money renovating stations trying to put more machines or make the rush to get in and out more efficient. If there were no machines these renos wouldnt be necessary half the time. Do you know how much it costs the gov to renovate Town Hall in Sydney ? Hndreds of millions just so they can play musical chairs with the gates.
If there are no gates, the movement of people is significantly quicker and theres less need for stupid renos as they try and make it faster but at the same time they are making exits slower because of gates and problems with card readers happening or peopl efumbling to find their phone or car detc.
We dont need more upgrades to the network.. the upgrades are part of the problem..
The REAL solution is for people to travel less. Thats the real problem. Its moronic that people travel hours from home to sit in a computer which they could do from home in the first place.
The answer is to tax companies and make them pay for wasting peoples time commutng, then you will see over night that they come up with innovations like working from home.
Take the Sydney CBD, how many tens of billions is that costing tax payers ?
4B for rozelle, 1-2B for central stations, 500M for each station, 3 -4 for the tunnels for the metro.. over 20B .. just to send peopl eto the CBD.
Thats madness spending 20 - 30B to send a few thousand people ot the CBD ? WHY ? It woudl be cheaper to close the place down and pay everyone a million dollars.
Feel free to challenge me on the maths. happy to share links to the gov about the metro etc.
Its basic stuff problem is people are brainwashed and dont have a brain to think a little differently.
Mary is the new Karen.
I have it playing on a loop. So don't feckin' ignore me batch!
Mary has some spunk and attitude but needs to direct that energy to other bigger issues like "what do you mean you can't promise not to see prostitutes" dude.
Or…"Where did this lip balm come from?"
Plot twist, the tram was travelling within the free tram zone
"Not driving, traveling."
everyone is wrong
GAME OVER MAN
GAME OVER
A simple case of "Mind your Own Business, Mary"
Did someone do a swticheroo of the poll options…
Yep.
The poll options went from:
Mary is wrong - stealing is a crime
Mary is right - mind your businessto
Mary is wrong - mind your business
Mary is right - stealing is a crime
You're missing the option for "Who gives a shit, this belongs on news.com.au"