Car Stolen, Alarm Didn't Go off. How to Prevent? Also, How to Defend Home in Australia?

900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:12
Last edited 02/12/2023 - 15:13

Had my 2010 Xtrail get stolen out of my driveway in Hobart last night, bit of a shame. 4 weeks living here so it was a nice welcome to the state.
It had a pretty touchy alarm, like if I mucked up locking it and using the door it would go off, so definitely worked. How did they manage to steal it without breaking any glass or setting off the alarm? I still have the keys.

Cops said another 2010 Nissan (Navara) was stolen nearby the night before. Thinking maybe there might exist an electronic tool that beats them? Kinda want to learn more since I'm stuck in this house for 12 months more and figure it's a target now (dark, dirt laneway).

So, what's the Ozbargain countermeasure if alarms apparently are worthless? Samsung/apple tags? GPS? Bikies?

Second question, how are we supposed to protect family in this country? Genuinely looking for advice here. I work away from home and the police recommended a cricket bat for my now scared partner. She's like 4 foot, it won't do a thing. They've even banned pepper spray which is about the only 'weapon' that can't be used without all parties being messed up, surely making it the ultimate defence.
All cameras are going to do is let me watch it happen, if the worst arises.

Feels very frustrating when the recommended way to defend your family is to wait for them to be assaulted and then lodge a police report. I love Australia but it feels lousy being both nanny-stated and unprotected.
I can buy a new car but you can't undo the effects of a genuine home-invasion, which is now a somewhat warranted concern.

Automotive

Comments

  • nocure on 02/12/2023 - 15:18
    +39

    How to Defend Home in Australia?

    Fly spray & ciggy lighter

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:29
      +1

      really not sure I back a scared gf to pull that off at 2am haha

      • DangerNoodle on 03/12/2023 - 17:00
        +15

        Can't buy pepper spray, but you can head down to Coles and buy some Carolina reaper chillis and infuse it into water, oil, or vodka and then fill up a spray bottle with it. I've got some in an oil sprayer. Good for adding a bit of a kick to some meat on the barbecue. Also handy if your spray bottle lets you adjust between spray and stream.

          • DangerNoodle on 03/12/2023 - 22:39
            +12

            @CowFrogHorse: OP was recommended by the police to buy a cricket bat. Dunno about you, but a cricket bat involves getting close to whoever you want to use it against, and OP mentioned that they don't believe their partner would be able to use it defensively. Better to not get close to the person breaking into your house.

            Comparatively, if you could spray them from a distance, it might just buy you enough time to get out of your house and call for help.

            My other recommendation is check if your phone has any security/emergency features. A lot of newer android phones have features where you can press the power button five times or something similar to alert your emergency contacts. Worth familiarising yourself with, it's silent and gives you more options in an emergency situation.

            • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 17:10
              -3

              @DangerNoodle: danger: OP was recommended by the police to buy a cricket bat.

              cow: no they werent, thats complete bullshit.

              Secondly theres a difference between what one random person even if they are a police person said and what the actual police forces of the country recommend.

              danger: Comparatively, if you could spray them from a distance, it might just buy you enough time to get out of your house and call for help.

              cow: And what if you arent ?

              Homes are not always open spaces, there are many narrow passages like hall ways or corners etc.

              Stop talking bullshit ifs and maybes the truth is its a random game of chance that you manage to spray someone before they get you coming around a corner etc.

              danger: it might just buy you enough time to get out of your house and call for help.

              cow: or you could do what the plice recommend and just run out the first door, rather than wasting time trying to stalk the bad guy and spray them. Secondly not every one has a spray in their hand ready to use.

            • dbmitch on 04/12/2023 - 18:52
              +4

              @DangerNoodle: A cricket bat also requires being able to wield it effectively to stop a crim, who is just as likely to get even more aggressive and bull rush you directly.

              Pepper spray however you obtain it, they can't see. Which basically renders 99% of actions they will take useless once you retreat.

          • OzBarAnon on 04/12/2023 - 14:07
            +6

            @CowFrogHorse: "There's a good chance you will have your own weapon used against you." So what? If a violent home invader is strong enough to overpower you and take your weapon, they were going to overpower you if you didn't have one. Either way, you're at their mercy. The only difference is that in the former situation, you at least had a better chance at the beginning.

            "…all the heroes are never to be seen." Greenwood Park mall shooter was stopped by an armed bystander, which was a very high profile incident last year.

            • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 17:15

              @OzBarAnon: ozbar: "There's a good chance you will have your own weapon used against you." So what? If a violent home invader is strong enough to overpower you and take your weapon, they were going to overpower you if you didn't have one

              cow: because you will make them more determined to use that weapon against you because you have proven to be a violent threat to them.

              ozbar: …all the heroes are never to be seen." Greenwood Park mall shooter was stopped by an armed bystander, which was a very high profile incident last year.

              cow: How many massacres where there in the USA ?

              Hundreds, i wouldnt call 1 in 100 a good result. I wouldnt goto a doctor where only 1 in 100 paitents survived an operation. I also wouldnt catch a plane where 1 in 100 actually landed safely.

              Given 20x more americans died from guns, i wouldnt call trading Australia's significantly less gun deaths against a maybe 1 in 100 example of stopping a masscare. We only had 2 or 3 massacres last year, America in a similar sized state would have had 50+, i wouldnt call saving one massacre but costing 48 a good trade.

              Some people really dont know how to count or what a safe bet is.

              • OzBarAnon on 04/12/2023 - 17:30

                @CowFrogHorse: You seem to think that the mass shootings in the US are all Columbines or Virgina Techs. The vast majority of mass shootings in the US are actually gang related, and mass shootings in gang warfare are hits and drive-bys that involve illegally obtained firearms, which you wouldn't exactly expect a bystander to get themselves involved in. You're also acting as if every mass shooting actually has armed bystanders nearby, or that the victims are armed to begin with. Most often, this isn't the case. America may technically have the highest firearms ownership per capita, but that's not evenly distributed across the country. Some individuals own many firearms, while many own none.

                • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 18:10
                  -2

                  @OzBarAnon: oz: You seem to think that the mass shootings in the US are all Columbines or Virgina Techs.

                  cow: Did i actually give an observation or are you just making shit up ?

                  Dont make claims about what i said, QUOTE MY WORDS, dont make shit up.

                  oz: The vast majority of mass shootings in the US are actually gang related(nytimes.com),

                  cow: nytimes.com is not. proper quote, give a proper link to a REAL article not some random domain name with a zillion articles.

                  Seconly so wht if they are gang related ?

                  There are still often many members of the public, and given half of americans have guns, where are the heroes ? Where are the heroes who stop the gang members ?

                  Or perhaps lets pretend half of massacres are non gang related, again where are the heroes ?

                  Stop making excuses gangs or no gangs, theres a lot of gun massacres in america, and like i said there are basically zero heroes. I wouldnt call 1 or 2 examples of a hero and 99 examples where they did nothing a good showing.

                  The only heroes are the police, so your claims and statgements recommedning guns are bullshit.

                  • OzBarAnon on 05/12/2023 - 11:38

                    @CowFrogHorse: The link I posted is an article. It doesn't go to the NY Times home page. Did you try clicking on it? It's also obvious why random people don't get involved in gang-shootings. They don't want to get embroiled in gang-activities that otherwise don't involve them. It's not like a single spree killer where, if you off them, that's the end of it. If you shoot a gang member, you can expect their allies to target you or your family in the future. It's also much harder to stop something like a drive-by because the whole thing is over in seconds.

                    Firearms distribution matters because you can't argue against the efficacy of armed bystanders/citizens by bringing up instances where no armed bystanders to begin with. How can you ask "where are the gun-wielding heroes?" for an instance like with Randy Stair, where he murdered his co-workers, none of whom were armed? Maybe it would've turned out differently if they were, but we don't know.

                • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 18:12

                  @OzBarAnon: oz: America may technically have the highest firearms ownership per capita, but that's not evenly distributed across the country. Some individuals own many firearms, while many own none.

                  cow: I didnt claim they were, another red herring. Again i never said anything like this statement in any form.

                  How about you actually address my statement instead of diverting attention with bullshit. The only eaon you bring up these non questions is because you cant actually refute my basic statement.

                  Wow you really are dishonest, you just keep making up lies that i have never said How about you actually address my only statement not questions and words that i have never ever said.

          • stealthpaw on 05/12/2023 - 15:48

            @CowFrogHorse: There is not a single reasonable argument against pepper spray for home defense, unless you are a crim.

    • HeWhoKnows on 03/12/2023 - 09:28
      +7

      Alternatively
      Car insurance, home insurance, contents insurance

      • psdillon on 03/12/2023 - 14:28
        +10
        • life insurance
        • doctordv8 on 03/12/2023 - 15:18
          +25

          Insurance insurance.

          • Thorn69 on 04/12/2023 - 09:44
            +4

            @doctordv8: ahh yes for when insurance wont cover you. how do people think insurance works i mean 75% of the time they will not pay out people that say things like car insurance or home insurance have no clue how it works

          • poohduck on 04/12/2023 - 18:03

            @doctordv8: I assume you mean "insurance for insurance", because insurance itself is an unknown until you get the money in your hand. It's a gamble.

      • nocure on 03/12/2023 - 15:42
        +8

        How do any of those "protect" you from a home invasion?

        • RiseAndRuin on 03/12/2023 - 20:57
          +1

          I guess there's only one way to know…

    • CalmLemons on 03/12/2023 - 21:32
      +9

      Just get a big arse dog. Or two.

      Honestly who steals a 2010 Xtrail?!?!

      Has to be just teens.

      • Drakesy on 04/12/2023 - 17:02
        +14

        Wouldn't of made it 100m down the road before the CVT Transmission exploded

        • samba on 06/12/2023 - 11:40

          heh

          • resisting the urge on 06/12/2023 - 13:45

            @samba: The plastic door handles are a critical vulnerability, however to start the car they'd need key, (there is a chip in it that exchanges a rolling code (with its embedded transponder chip) with the vehicle's ECU/security system. Only way there is to drive it rather than push it, that doesn't involve some hard to do switheroo-ing of the ECU/security module.

            IIRC the filth (cops) and dirtier philth (insurance) tend to expect this common feature to work flawlessly, and thus treat the theft as an 'invited guest' (someone known to the owner who managed to collect the actual key). Insurance companies all threaten to avoid coverage when keys are 'mislaid' or left in the car/home somewhere they can be found by the thief.

            They'd need a car-carrier otherwise, and winches… yea, nah

      • poohduck on 04/12/2023 - 18:05
        +1

        I'm guessing it's because it was an easy steal? They (the thieves) appear to have a way get older nissans - that's what the op and supposedly the police are suggesting.

      • Gaz1 on 05/12/2023 - 16:07
        +5

        Buy a manual car & the teens probably won't know how to drive one….

    • Pinchy on 03/12/2023 - 22:54
      +3

      Watch Fargo S5 recently too?

      • Baysew on 04/12/2023 - 17:19

        Yes - She's like 4 foot, it won't do a thing lethal.

  • barge-in hunter on 02/12/2023 - 15:28
    +47

    It must be really frustrating having your car stolen and disconcerting to have been the victim of a crime on your property.

    Having said that, getting an old car stolen is a different level of crime to a home invasion. I know it feels really raw right now, but you and your partner are pretty physically safe in your home.

    Hope you both starting feeling more at ease soon

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:30
      +4

      Thanks. I get that, but it would be far easier to break into this house than the car. Both are equally exposed and out of public eye as we are the only ones that are stuck on this laneway access. If I was a thief and pulled of the car steal last night I would absolutely mark this house as an easy future target.

      • bargaino on 02/12/2023 - 19:57
        +25

        It isn't about how easy, but the consequences. Jail time actually works as a deterrent, so home invasion is rare. Same with stealing a car from a person who is in it. That counts as robbery, and the cops actually take it seriously. Because the courts will actually lock them up. Sometimes.
        But crims know that there is much less chance of being pursued for stealing from cars, or outside homes. And a slap on the wrist even if caught. Burglary is somewhere in between.

        • LFO on 03/12/2023 - 13:12
          +24

          Also minors will get Scott free when stealing a vehicle, in particular indigenous minors.
          Too sad but too true.

        • Speckled Jim on 03/12/2023 - 14:55

          Don't mind the Logical Fallacy Organism.

        • infinite on 03/12/2023 - 15:26
          +7

          Home invasions happen all the time (394,600 Australian homes in the 2020/2021 financial year) and there is no deterrent, because the police and the media refuse to go after the offenders committing the crime.

          They instead choose to get their knickers in a bunch and nit-pick how the victims of the crime defended themselves and their property against the violent offenders who broke into their homes.

          • bargaino on 03/12/2023 - 17:05
            +9

            @infinite: You mean burglaries, right? Huge difference.

            • unhuman on 03/12/2023 - 19:13

              @Gekov: Can’t tell if sarcasm lol

            • Ruddaga on 04/12/2023 - 10:06
              +1

              @Gekov: Except then the likely hood that the person who is breaking in has a gun increases as well, and they have a gun while you're sleeping and your gun is locked away in a safe somewhere while you're naked in your undies.

              Unless you sleep with it in a holster around your waist.

          • CowFrogHorse on 03/12/2023 - 20:47
            -1

            @infinite: The media ?

            Wasnt aware the media was part of the judicial process.

            Are there special media courts and media jails ?

            • infinite on 03/12/2023 - 21:58

              @CowFrogHorse:

              Wasnt aware the media was part of the judicial process.

              Are there special media courts and media jails ?

              Worked excellently for Brittney Higgins with her false rape claims, until the facts were presented in an actual court………..

              • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 17:07
                -1

                @infinite: You obviously dont understand the law.

                There is only one authority who determines facts, that is the courts, the police are agents who arrest people for the courts to try. No where is the media a part of this, they may influence people, but they are not directly part of the system.

                One example isnt a valid example. Once a week theres a winner of Lotto, that doesnt mean every person who buys a lotto ticket is winner. You need to study what probability means and what is the actual majority case not some very rare event.

          • CowFrogHorse on 03/12/2023 - 20:50

            @infinite: Find those numbers hard to believe, 400k homes ? Whats that one in 20 homes is home invaded every year in AU ?

            • infinite on 03/12/2023 - 22:02

              @CowFrogHorse:

              Whats that one in 20 homes is home invaded every year in AU ?

              3.5% of Australian households (394,600 homes) in the 2020-2021 financial year, as per Federal Govt crime stat reporting & ABS (https://www.dsh.gov.au/news-and-media/did-you-know-35-austra…).

              • nigel deborah on 03/12/2023 - 23:25
                +5

                @infinite: Lots to unpack there but you're conflating home invasion with break in. Home invasion is when the occupants are present, and this is incredibly uncommon in Australia and almost only happens when the parties are known to each other or by mistake.

                Secondly, 3.5 percent includes 'attempted break ins' which could be as little as someone trying a door to see if it's unlocked. That accounts for more than half of that figure.

                And thirdly, these burglaries tend to be much more common in certain areas. Hobart is going to be way down the list compared to, say, Broome.

                • Lunarboogie on 04/12/2023 - 16:48
                  +2

                  @nigel deborah: Good point. Though on the flip side, most crimes go unreported. So even the 3.5 per cent figure is unreliable and probably a lot lower than the true incidence of home robberies.

                  • nigel deborah on 04/12/2023 - 17:31
                    -1

                    @Lunarboogie: That's from census data I think. Further down it says only 66 percent of those burglaries were reported to police.

                    If you look at the numbers, it says 116,000 of those 394,000 total (attempted and actual) were reported to police. So the figure for burglaries reported to the police is actually about 1 percent.

              • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 17:18
                -1

                @infinite: https://www.dsh.gov.au/news-and-media/did-you-know-35-austra…

                A home theft is not a home invasion. They are clearly two very different events. Its one thing to rob some item and actually take people hostage.

                You really are dishonest.

          • Birdseye on 05/12/2023 - 16:12
            -1

            @infinite: Stop making things up. This link from the ABS shows that 2020-21 actually had the lowest rate of break ins in years, at less than half the number you quoted. Also saying 'home invasion' instead of break in is using deliberately inflammatory language. For most break ins there is no-one home, very few end in any sort of violence.
            https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/break-ins….

      • Protractor on 03/12/2023 - 14:14
        -2

        Firstly your fantasising about what 'might happen' , secondly you claim to know the workings of crims minds.
        You had a car stolen. That's it.And probably because the alarm wasn't the firewall you expected.Find your own way to disable you cars. It is not that hard

    • HeWhoKnows on 03/12/2023 - 09:29

      2 of the same car stolen in close proximity
      They are after parts

      Its known as "Midnight Spares"

      • ozboygsl on 05/12/2023 - 09:24

        is that cannibalising one car for parts for the other?

    • 811b11e8 on 04/12/2023 - 12:53

      Pretty similar the burb over us was targeted for cars, they just smashed the front door of the house and took the keys off the hook.

      About 20 cars in a couple of weeks.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/12/2023 - 15:31
    +11

    At home?

    Just install better locks and shutters. Need a police tank to get into my place.

    Out of about?

    Tae Kwon Do lessons.
    Better running shoes and fitness
    "Legal" pepper spray https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/71416/deep-heat-spor…

    • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:33
      +2

      Just install better locks and shutters.

      Rental

      Tae Kwon Do lessons

      Not going to help a 4 foot female.

      Better running shoes and fitness

      Same as above plus no way of getting out of the house but the front door, and therefore past intruders.

      "Legal" pepper spray

      Now we're talking! Good shout thanks :)

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/12/2023 - 15:37

        Rental

        Ask the LL. Bet you they agree.

        Tae Kwon Do lessons

        Not going to help a 4 foot female.

        Yes it would.

        • Morien on 02/12/2023 - 15:42
          +1

          Yes it would.

          It helped Bobby Hill, and he can't be much more than 4 feet!

        • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 15:43
          +22

          Yes it would.

          Heavily disagree. Had an ex that was state champ of full contact Karate. Asked her one day to go full effort on me and I swear she couldn't land a single unchecked shot. That's not me being badass, I literally had no fight training and was just a big gumby male. Ended in tears when she realised the training is basically worthless in Male vs Female.

          I get no pleasure from that BTW. I would very gladly accept a great equaliser like pepperspray being widespread. Forfeit our advantage over women in return the ones I care about being safer.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/12/2023 - 16:24
            -6

            @900dollaridoos: Karate is crap. Sorry.

            Former tae kwon do instructor was 5 foot nothing weight anatomically. Unstoppable and unbeatable.

            • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 16:30
              +8

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

              Karate is crap. Sorry

              I mean you might be right but the funny thing is I even have a tae kwon do example on hand.
              Our very fit highschool PE teacher was pretty invested in that art and had a mock fight (light spar) with a student, even there she was embarassed against what would have been probably a 16 y.o boy.
              There is just no chance the average women is going to be able to marial arts their way out of a late night home invasion, especially if weapons or multiple assailants are involved.
              Maybe at instructor level it starts evening out but thats a pretty high ceiling to reach in less than a decade.

              • mapax on 02/12/2023 - 16:50
                +16

                @900dollaridoos: I have had similar experiences with multiple women from different martial arts. There’s a reason why weight divisions exist and why men don’t compete against women.

                • 900dollaridoos on 02/12/2023 - 17:05
                  +15

                  @mapax: Exactly. Its a shame but its reality.
                  No question every woman on the ufc roster is murdering me without sweat, but thats a lifetime of training and genetic perfection.

                • ozboygsl on 05/12/2023 - 09:21
                  -2

                  @mapax: uhh, not any more. have a look at all the "men" with mental illnesses { gender dysmorphia} who think/ pretend to be women so that they can get some attention.

              • gromit on 04/12/2023 - 06:54
                +4

                @900dollaridoos: Self defense training isn't about being bigger or overpowering your opponent. It is about how to land a short sharp hit to the eyes, the throat or crown jewels and then escape before the opponent can respond, You aren't trying to physically dominate them.

                • Miami Mall Alien on 04/12/2023 - 14:56
                  +2

                  @gromit: Even something as simple as landing a good eye gouge/throat strike that could seriously incapacitate someone requires a hell of a lot of training before it becomes muscle memory to the point that you're able to reliably pull it off consistently, especially in unexpected attacks and especially when you're at a massive height/reach disadvantage.

                  Hollywood has completely distorted the laymen's perception of what's realistically plausible for the average Joe to pull off in a self-defence situation.

                  Self defense training isn't about being bigger or overpowering your opponent.

                  Any instructor worth their salt would say to their students that if you're vastly outnumbered or outmatched by an opponent/s, you should do absolutely everything in your power to avoid engaging with them and are much better off either defusing a situation (in the context of a drunken argument), running away (especially if you're lighter/more agile), summoning help or putting as many obstacles/barriers between yourself and an attacker.

                  Knowing when to fight and when you have a good probability of winning a fight is vastly more important than knowing how to fight for the average person. Most people simply shouldn't be fighting anyone in unarmed combat because the probability of them losing or suffering serious injuries in the process even if they "win" are ridiculously high.

            • Miami Mall Alien on 02/12/2023 - 18:27
              +10

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

              Former tae kwon do instructor was 5 foot nothing weight anatomically. Unstoppable and unbeatable.

              Against who? Other TKD practitioners in tournaments with rules? Cool story.

              Now put him/her on the streets against a good MMA fighter who's been doing kickboxing/Muay Thai/wrestling/BJJ for a few years and see how well that TKD stuff works in the real-world with no rules and the overwhelming probability that the fight goes to the ground in about 20 seconds or less. Add in a weight/height/reach disadvantage to compound the fun.

              No offence but if you think Karate is a joke but TKD is somehow mythical, you just haven't done enough combat sports/different styles of martial arts yet.

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 02/12/2023 - 23:17
                +1

                @Miami Mall Alien:

                Now put him/her on the streets against a good MMA fighter who's been doing kickboxing/Muay Thai/wrestling/BJJ

                Do trained MMA fighters regularly participate in home invasions and car thefts?

                • munecito on 03/12/2023 - 07:33
                  +4

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: No but people high on drugs do. Even less effective against those.

                  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/12/2023 - 13:50
                    -3

                    @munecito: I suppose these drugged up MMA fighters are professional locksmiths too?

                    • munecito on 04/12/2023 - 07:52

                      @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Lack of reading comprehension?

                      No, trained MMA fighters don't regularly participate in home invasions, but, people high on drugs do.

                      No mention to junkie MMA fighters.

                      Even less mention to locksmiths.

                      Burglars are also not usually locksmiths, although anecdotally they could learn some locksmithing much easier than they could become proficient MMA fighters.

                      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 04/12/2023 - 16:30
                        -1

                        @munecito: No, a clear case of taking the piss. Apparently I pissed off some Karate competition participants and MMA fans. Majority of karate taught these days is for competition and not self defence. At least from what I've seen here in Melbourne.

                        Just look below at all the peeps swinging their MMA unmentionables around. Hilarious.

                • infinite on 03/12/2023 - 15:40
                  +3

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                  Do trained MMA fighters regularly participate in home invasions and car thefts?

                  UFC champ Jon Jones certainly does !

                • Miami Mall Alien on 03/12/2023 - 19:28
                  +6

                  @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                  Do trained MMA fighters regularly participate in home invasions and car thefts?

                  My point was that if you're going to seriously invest the time and energy into becoming proficient with a martial art, look at what actually works.

                  There are almost no, elite-level mixed martial artists that are TKD purists or even come from a TKD background (especially today and the only notable exception that I can think of is Anderson Silva who is a 5th dan BB in TKD but even then, he was anything but a purist in competition). The same goes for kickboxers. At best, some fighters incorporate some TKD kicks into their style.

                  The overwhelmingly majority of successful MMA fighters and especially those ranked in the top 10 in their division are either elite-level wrestlers/grapplers who learned how to strike very well or elite-level boxers/kickboxers who learned how to wrestle or submission grapple very well.

                  That combination of disciplines has time and time again rendered most other martial art traditions irrelevant in both professional competition and in the real-world, when all other factors are equal (gender, size, experience, etc).

                  It's also why hand-to-hand combatives training in law enforcement and the military today revolves around stuff like BJJ, wrestling, Muay Thai and kickboxing exclusively. It's tried and tested and trusted by people whose lives depend on it.

                  Also, you leave out a massive caveat with the concept of attempting to use martial arts training in self-defence situations: you need years and years of experience and constant full-contact, realistic sparring with training partners that don't go easy on you before you have a hope in hell of defending your life against violent criminals in a completely unexpected attack, especially if you're not genetically-gifted and at a major height/weight/reach disadvantage against the average person.

                  The stereotypical McDojos/Belt Factories that will run through the same scripted drills in every class, pass students in gradings like it's a special needs sports carnival and almost never have full-contact sparring sessions will do absolutely nothing but foster a false sense of security that will only set people up for failure should they ever have to rely on their so-called skills to defend themselves with.

                  It's just not practical for the average person to invest a lifetime into becoming skilled enough at combat sports to the point where they could reliably neutralise an attacker in even 50% of real-world scenarios when a small-calibre handgun will put anyone on the planet on equal footing with any criminal and it requires a few months of training at most to become competent enough with a firearm to defend your life with it.

                  Your anecdote about the TKD instructor is an outlier and not at all representative of the average martial arts student, most of whom quickly lose the interest/motivation to stick with combat sports once things get serious and blows/techniques are being thrown that could lay out a horse or rupture an ACL.

              • ozboygsl on 05/12/2023 - 09:25

                @Miami Mall Alien: Absolutely! - well said.

            • Assburg on 03/12/2023 - 21:26
              +2

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I (male) recreationally box, and have jumped in as a sparring partner with a few female Commonwealth games/national level competitors.

              Every single one of them opened with something to the effect of "Hey I know I'm getting ready for a match but please just remember there is a huge difference between men and women and I don't want to get injured."

              OP is 100% right - a trained female might catch someone off guard at first but…the longer it persists the less likely her success is.

            • OzBarAnon on 04/12/2023 - 14:19
              +1

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Karate is not crap. Lyoto Machida became a UFC champion off of a karate background. Andy Hug had a karate background too and became a K1 champ. It depends on what you're taught, and your physical abilities/training. If your black belt came from a McDojo and training for 2hrs a week, it's not worth a whole lot, and if you're facing someone who has 100lbs of muscle on you, you're in for a rough time no matter how skilled you are. Just saying "TKD good, Karate bad" is dumb and shows that you don't know all that much about fighting.

              • Miami Mall Alien on 04/12/2023 - 15:28

                @OzBarAnon: There's also GSP, who's a 3rd dan BB in Kyokushin.

                That being said, neither Machida nor GSP were anything close to Karate purists in competition and they were both black belts in other arts like BJJ on top of having decades of well-rounded MMA experience.

                Karate can be a good base to start out with when someone is dipping their toe into combat sports but anyone relying on a singular martial art in today's combat sports landscape is going to be at a major disadvantage if they have to use that in a self-defence scenario.

                Machida's, GSP's and Andy Hug's heydays were a long time ago now and I'd argue the barrier to entry and skill ceiling in MMA is so high now that anyone coming from a martial arts purist background is going to have to diversify into many other disciplines if they want to be remotely successful.

                There are very few long-time karatekas in the Top 10 of any UFC division today. Robert Whittaker would be one example but again, if you watch him fight he doesn't move or throw attacks anything like a typical karate practitioner and certainly nothing resembling Machida's style, who was probably the closest to a purist Karate fighter in UFC history.

                • OzBarAnon on 04/12/2023 - 15:36

                  @Miami Mall Alien: Of course being rounded is better, but I was talking more specifically about @zeggie saying TKD is good and karate is bad, which is just silly. As far as self defense goes, the best skill is probably parkour and a good sprint to gtfo of there, but training a hard and fast kick between the legs isn't too bad either, be it karate or otherwise.

                • montorola on 05/12/2023 - 10:57

                  @Miami Mall Alien: Muay Thai FTW!!!

          • Protractor on 03/12/2023 - 14:17
            -1

            @900dollaridoos: You seem to be seeking validation to weaponize? and use them. Why not just say that directly rather than water it down in the original post.

            "Forfeit our advantage over women " You have a problem Houston

          • CowFrogHorse on 03/12/2023 - 20:58

            @900dollaridoos: Pepper spray is not an equalizer, its very easy for the spray to be used against the defender. Theres a reason why police have training and only use it in certain circumstances. Only morons think they know how to fight or use weapons in the heat of the moment.

            • 900dollaridoos on 03/12/2023 - 23:21

              @CowFrogHorse: The police version is like silly string and I agree can be targeted and weaponised. The actual spray version I have tested in the army (and that is the one self defence states sell) is a nuclear option that ruins the day of everyone in the vicinity without a mask.

              I don't want to be crass, but the latter basically rules out male on female assault that I'm concerned about.

              • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 17:59

                @900dollaridoos: lets see, who am i going to believe, some random person on the internet or basically every police force of the free world.

                You are free to say whatever you wish, but in a rational world you have zero proof for your claims except stories.

                The safe option is to believe the authorities they have the experience, research and studies to back their recommendtions.

                THe chance you are right compared to them is basically zero.

          • Poor Ass on 04/12/2023 - 10:03

            @900dollaridoos: it's like men vs women in sports

            if you are talking about pepper spray any aerosol would work as well like deodorant

        • 900dollaridoos on 03/12/2023 - 23:27
          +12

          Of this entire post you're comment might be the worst I've come across…

          Stop having a victim mindset

          Me enquiring about protective options for loved ones is literally the opposite of a victim mindset. Is that just a term you throw around?

          As someone said the car being stolen is still rather raw right now

          Funnily enough I'm genuinely not that worked up about the car. I have always stuck to relatively cheap cars to limit exposure.
          My primary concern is protecting loved ones.

          How about stop undermining your partner
          …in times of need a person has to do wat a person needs to do.

          This is such a pointless statement. So all the women that are assaulted didn't "do what they needed to do"??

          • CowFrogHorse on 04/12/2023 - 18:02

            @900dollaridoos: The safe option is to not try and fight back, guns dont save lives they actually cost many more.

            Dont ask random nobodies on the internet, this answer has already been given by our police forces many times over.

            Its no different to asking a real doctor about medical matters or asking a fake doctor writing fake health food books with bullshit content that is all basically lies with no independent witnesses. The safe and smart option is to ask REAL doctors from REAL authorities .

        • ssfps on 04/12/2023 - 02:35
          +2

          top having a victim mindset, and just find legal ways to protect yourself and your home.

          Victim blaming and calling OP to a legally impossible action. Terrible post.

        • munecito on 04/12/2023 - 07:55
          +1

          So all the people and more specifically women that get assaulted are but doing what needs to be done?

          That's the most delusional statement I have ever read. Find the super Saiyan in you when attacked even if you are small or weaker and have never trained for these situations.

        • SpainKing on 05/12/2023 - 17:45

          Honestly not sure how you could have come up with such a poor interpretation of events. Perhaps it's you projecting your previous experience/biases on to OP due to your own experiences with a break-in while you weren't at home

          OP is not undermining his partner by saying she would struggle to physically defend herself as a result of her size, that's just reality

          Unless u look like u have something worth stealing, i highly doubt u will be targetted again

          If the area has 2 cars stolen in a week, that means there are criminals in the area. Your high levels of doubt don't offer any comfort or make them any less likely to suffer a home invasion. Large assets like cars being stolen means the criminals are obviously a step above shoplifters and OP shouldn't gamble his/his gf's safety over your rambling

          I had one neg left today and couldn't think of a more deserving place for it to go

    • Rahonui on 03/12/2023 - 13:01
      +12

      Tae Kwon Do lessons.

      Thanks for the laugh 🤣.. the doubling down just made it better. Tae kwon do is flashy and good for impressing people with the board breaking, but in the real world it's pretty useless.

      A baseball bat beside the bed would be better defense.

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