A fantastic deal. East Digital is running a deal for the next 5 days. As per the previous deals warranty is 3 years via them.
Also ST12000NM001G Seagate 12TB Exos X16 512E 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s- (A$222.19) https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/276131162915
Just wondering with cloud storage these days what is everyone using there 16tb for?
I used to use a 4x2tb Nas but it's gathering dust now. Back in the day HD needed to be downloaded
Cloud storage options are getting expensive / cracking down on quotas (eg google drive just cracked down)
But I much prefer to have my own data locally. Unraid box with Plex / Arrs etc, Local backups etc
I host nextcloud and have wasabi for storage. $6.99/m for 1TB not too bad
But I don't have that much on storage these days. All streaming.
Photos and family videos I have 500gb~ local and cloud backup. Other than that I don't use storage that much
Can I ask if you're running any redundancies with your set up?
I used to use SHR 1x drive tolerance in a Gen 8 HP but that's broken now, but the error rate seems very high.
Looking for another set up.
Many people backup their cloud storage to a local nas, or on the other hand many people don’t trust cloud storage and host their own.
Some have too much data to put in the cloud, it may be uneconomical etc. Many reasons.
How do you backup your data?
interesting good deal.
Any dock recommendation to put these in to use a external hard drive?
pretty much anything that has a sata connection.
Yes but there are also good and bad ones.
not really they all use similar tech that is mass produced in china where they most likely get from the same suppliers, any of the good or bad made ones can still go wrong. its really up to what kinds of materials you want with your sata connection or enclosure. But I have always just got the cheap ones they havent' failed me yet.
Has anyone ordered from them before? Are they typically well packed?
Many hundreds of drives have been ordered from them via previous GB before they started sending Neology the drives to be distributed locally in the last few GB. Check the threads of those for peoples experiences.
When I purchased my HC550 16TB WD drives they came very well packed and were sent via Fedex which arrived in 5 days. This order was a while ago so please message them for latest shipping method.
I bought 4 X 14TB from them.
It came extremely well pack, I was very impressed.
Delivery is via FedEx.
Glad to see they still ship via Fedex. Nice.
Extremely well packed with plenty of padding and also fast shipping if you choose expedited.
Would ebay au gift cards work for this?
EDIT: Gift cards can only be used for items listed in Australian dollars
Mine eBay Gift Cards worked for it, automatically got converted to USD
Wonder if you can do anything similar via ebay US
The AUD restriction is definitely not enforced acording to my experience.
Any 18tb?
They are listed but aren't on special.
Yeah I'm after 18TB as well. But I have so many exos drives now, I feel like i need something different to hedge my bets.
I thought that's what RAID and ZFS was for
Yes and No, I'm not using ZFS at the moment and it will take quite a bit of effort to for me to get to ZFS since I have 108TB that I would need to manage - I haven't looked into this due to this but from what I've heard good things. But Raid itself wont protect you if you buy all HD at the same time coming from the same batch and multiple fail. Its generally still better to hedge your bets as a just-in-case - not sure how prevelent this is and it might just be tin-foil hat issue but that's probably the only thing I can do to be a little safer.
For anyone who has done a warranty with them, what is fee to I assume ship back to Hong Kong?
I remember reading from the GB buy threads that they have covered postage both ways in the past. (Best to message them to see if this still is the case) But Ill let someone else reply back with a more recent experience.
Would I be insane buying these instead?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/285472460920?hash=item42777c1078…
Currently have shucked WD 8TB drives I need to replace
I would steer clear of used and stick to the new ones personally. YMMV.
They’re probably both used, both this drive and the drive above will 90% be mining drives with similar range of DOM, with the difference being there’s no widespread tool to clear the smart data of Ultrastar drives
Well that's simply not true.
@Tacooo: Agreed.
This is the same supplier in the past for the past 5 Group Buys. Feel free to check out those threads. Everyone whom has purchased AFAIK have received new drives. If they were wiped I'm sure with the hundreds, upon hundreds of drives pushed through the GB people would have had there pitchforks out.
@Spizz: I bought the exact model from 5th GB. Was well packed obviously because it was done by our local GB organiser Neology. But the drives were new and working good so far with zero issues.
Edit: this price is better than what I paid in GB even, about 5% AUD and 10% USD. I'd jump again if I had the need but don't think I'll be needing until next BF :) hopefully by that time AUD will be stronger!
@WhatsTheBigDeal: I bought 8x 16TB Exos from the 3rd GB and have been running them 24/7 in RAIDZ2 with no issues either.
Wo cao!
We all know that WD White are shucked External drives.
EXOS are the best Enterprise drives available but they are seagate.
ok thanks - sounds like EXOS is the way to go
Hen hao Shi Fu!
but they are seagate.
And it's not 2013 any more. Nothing wrong with Seagate.
I got burned with Many seagate st3000dm001, st3000dm007 & st3000dm008
Never again seagate. I still taste ashes.
@barg99: And again, it's not 2013 any more. Everyone knows about the bad batches of 3TB drives. WD made a whole thing of having shitty Green drives back around the same time but people still love them.
@Tacooo: Yeah keep pants on, I'm just moaning about my experience.
I do have a couple of shucked helium WD 14TBs which are plonking along ok. (thumbs).
Actually apeaking of not 2013, you are right, I raid0 everything with the price of hardware these days it's reasonable to physically mirror storage. I.e. server with some shucked drives x 2 and rsync. Considering rebuild time and size
@barg99: I wish it was cheap enough to mirror my storage. My 8x 16TB are running low on space so I need to upgrade to 16x 16TB. Then I need to buy another 16x 16TB to put in another server I've got ready which I'll run offsite as a mirrored node. Looking close to $10k worth of drives.
@Tacooo: Sounds like those 50TB drives can't come quickly enough. I was sure they were meant to be out by now but a quick google search puts them at a 2026 release.
What hardware are you using for the 8x16TB setup?
@xentar: Shit I hadn't even heard of 50TB drives. Think I'll let the rest of the data hoarders test them first before I put them into production.
Dell T620 w/ 16 bay SAS backplane. H730 Perc for the RAID card.
Synology folks would say no to WD now.
Sorry to downvote you, just to stop people for a sec before quick buying without checking it is a second hand HDD.
If you have a large collection of pr0n material, then it would be an adequate storage, but for anything more valuable (i.e. video footage, data. etc) I would not trust second hand HDDs.
That last sentence is the wrong way around, no?
Thanks! Ordered
If anyone needs manufacture dates best to message them to see and ask for the latest dates as recently they have been from a 2022 batch I beleive.
Random 2021 / 2022 drives according to the seller
Ordered ST16000NM002G from here https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/285412739660 as they are AU$265.96. Paid with gift cards too.
Aren't SAS encrypted drives?
Oh no
LOL
Check your order. There is an option to cancel it.
If it's too late you just need a HBA and a free 4x PCI slot.
AFAIK SAS drives actually perform better but since they are made for server environments they can be louder.
SAS use a different interface to SATA and are usually only found in servers.
OP is going to have a bad time
Yep but you can get a SAS pci card.
what is problem with encrypted drives?
Can't you just format it?
also what is SAS encrypted drives used for?
Sas drives are not encrypted, all my hdds are sas, you can use sata drives on a sas controller but not sas on a sata controller.
Sas drives are faster depending on generation, and alot more reliable
Sas drives are faster depending on generation
Marginally. For most workloads, there's very little performance gain - drive speed is vastly more dependent on the mechanicals inside the drive, than the interface it runs on.
and alot more reliable
This is not correct.
The interface does not affect drive reliability to any meaningful degree - when the same enterprise drives are available in SATA and SAS variants, there's no reliability improvement from the SAS version.
@Nom: Incorrect Sas drives donot have the same internals as sata, and always have a much higher mtbf than sata, why the hell do you think we use them in server environments hell sata drives are much cheaper new..
As to speed umm yeah sorry once again way way incorrect.
Here is very basic n I mean basic comparison from Intel SAS VS SATA
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000…
Sas drives donot have the same internals as sata
Yes they do, when a SATA variant is available.
https://www.seagate.com/au/en/products/enterprise-drives/exo…
See for yourself - when I order a 10TB 7E10 it comes in SATA or SAS options. They're both the same drive.
I think you're confusing the fact that SAS drives are always Enterprise models, whereas SATA drives include Enterprise models and Consumer models - with SAS, you can't choose a Consumer drive. With SATA, the choice is up to you to make.
why the hell do you think we use them in server environments
Because SAS supports switching natively. You can run many drives from a small number of ports, with the right expanders. Each SAS port can generally talk to 255 drives.
Any large array will always use SAS because you can't natively control large numbers of drives with SATA controllers - port-multipliers are absolutely not a substitute for SAS expanders.
@Nom: Honestly you believe what you want one day you may actually work in an enterprise environment maintaining these servers n you will learn a thing or 10 like i said believe what you want..
Here is very basic n I mean basic comparison from Intel SAS VS SATA https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000…
That link is explaining the difference between a 15000rpm SAS drive and a 7200rpm SATA drive.
Not sure why you've posted it - the mechanicals of the drive are what determines it's performance and reliability, not the interface, which that article illustrates perfectly.
What do you think the same comparison looks like when you compare the same drive in SATA and SAS variants ? The answer is https://www.seagate.com/content/dam/seagate/migrated-assets/…
Honestly you believe what you want
🤷🏼♂️ This has absolutely nothing to do with belief, I've explained in great detail why your assertion that SAS drives are faster and more reliable is not true, and I've even linked to the manufacturer specs for a particular drive to show they don't list a higher performance or MTBF for the SAS variant.
SED (self encrypting drive) is an encrypted drive (or rather, self encrypting). It means you can't take the platters out and move them to another controller board, or replace the controller board with a compromised one for pulling data, as the encryption key is stored on the controller board.
SAS is just another interface like USB.
Copying what I typed a while back:
A problem with seagate oem drives afaik is a lot of them are older and have dates that are pre 2022 and those ones are probably mining drives with the smart data cleared, it’s a big issue in Chinese forums.
If you get a 2021 or earlier drive it’s almost certainly a mining drive with its smart data wiped. Which doesn’t mean it won’t work fine but might as well buy a used drive at that point and save a few extra dollars
Price of 16tb exos drives with their smart data cleared in China: ~A$200, price of an oem exos drive from an authorised distributor ~A$330, these numbers are without gst and shipping prices to Australia.
I was going to buy but now I'm not sure.
but they are advertised as NEW with 0 hours on them?
can you elaborate on mining drives?
google “ 希捷清零盘 site:nga.178.com” (seagate drives with cleared smart) click into some links and use google translate, bunch of threads talking about seagate drives with smart data being cleared
some threads for reference:
https://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=38263028
https://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=38096062
https://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=35851346
https://nga.178.com/read.php?tid=36416868
Just had a quick look at those threads. People again posting assertions yet where is the proof in those threads?
Mining drives is when hard drives are used to mine cryptocurrency, kinda like how peole use GPUs to mine cryptocurrency, except this is with hard drives, very bad for the drive obviously and the trend now is that they wipe the SMART data from the drive so there's no history at all, then re-package and sell it as new drives.
Honestly, i see these kind of prices for these kind of enterprise drives, it's too good to be true.
except this is with hard drives, very bad for the drive obviously
Let's just be very clear here that it's not "bad" for the drive.
It just makes it a used drive - it's been used for reading and writing. That's all.
There's no difference between a mining drive and any other ex-server drive. Usage is usage.
So you think this is likely a mining drive?
I was wondering why there's so many 'zero hours' 'as new' drives that seem to get sold out of China/HK, with the listings all saying 'check CrystalDiskInfo to see hours are low'. Couldn't see how so many drives would be popping up with zero hours use and 1 year+ manufacture dates.
Makes sense now..
This is the same supplier in the past for the past 5 Group Buys. Feel free to check out those threads. Everyone whom has purchased AFAIK have received new drives. If they were wiped I'm sure with the hundreds, upon hundreds of drives pushed through the GB people would have had there pitchforks out.
To quote Neology in the group buy threads when somebody was asking about the 2019 manufacturing dates: “In terms of @Moi 's doubt on if the HDDs are "refurbished drives that have had their SMART values reset". East Digital has no clue if it is the case. ED comments "We have no technique or expertise to reset the SMART values. We simply repack and resell hard drive from stock provided from their wholesaler which has been working for many years.”
they have no clue if their drives are new or not? If they were working with an actual distributor it should be a pretty easy question to answer
Again If they were wiped I'm sure with the hundreds, upon hundreds of drives pushed through the GB people would have had there pitchforks out.
@Spizz: How do you prove a wiped drive? Also you’d assume Chinese prices would be similar to this store if these drives were new, however the only “new” drives around this price bracket in China are those wiped drives with pre 2022 manufacturing dates that is memed on in Chinese forums
How do you prove a wiped drive?
Your assertion that nobody can prove the drives are wiped, doesn't really help your position.
Assuming that nobody can prove a wiped drive, because they're identical to a new drive in every way, then … is there even a problem ?
If the drives are as reliable as new drives, and indistinguishable from them, but the price is way cheaper, then isn't everyone winning ?
@Nom: No because they’re essentially overpriced used drives, it’s like clearing the odometer in the car, if you believe a 2018 car with 0 miles driven, good on you
Don't buy them then
Just informing other potential buyers about this issue since nobody talks about this issue outside of Chinese forums
Wouldn't it be obvious if a drive has been used?
I am aware of the ability to wipe the S.M.A.R.T data but screw sockets can be inspected for scratches.
I suspect the drives they are selling are actually recertified which isn't that bad.
Also they come with a 3 year warranty but this could be a rugpull if they get too many RMAs.
Still the price is similar to local sellers parting out disk shelves with little (3month) or no warranty so the risk is not that bad provided the seller has a good history IMHO.
warranty meaningless if the store disappears
"Also they come with a 3 year warranty but this could be a rugpull if they get too many RMAs."
I agree, something suss about this. Manufacture date should be same year if they are selling in bulk. Especially out of HK, I dont expect to see stock from 2021.
The vast majority of nerds using a NAS won't care so long as the drive works.
But with the right tools, its absolutely possible to reset low level drive data and make a drive look new again.
Thanks OP, bought a couple. Bought two IronWolf drives from these guys before (should have gotten four, but was short on money) Been waiting for this price for a while, finally I can upgrade from Raid 1 to 5 on my NAS.
This is a Seagate drive. I wouldn't trust Seagate drives with their reputation of failing within years.
I'm normally in the same boat at you. Years ago I lost data from multiple sudden Seagate drive failures.
However according to Backblaze these drives have a 0.81% yearly failure rate. Not that bad compared to some drives. But also worth mentioning the worst drives on this list are Seagate and this was in an enterprise environment.
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q3-…
That was then, this is now. They've improved. But after a catastrophe I wouldn't blame you for not trusting them.
All drives fail within years. Seagate's reputation is no different to the other brands.
Plan for drive failure - it happens !
Would love a deal on an 18TB!
Need three to fully populate the NAS, but looking at Boxing Day sale.
Been watching them drop all week, think this is about as good as its going to get
Excellent value IMO