Unofficial OzBargain Mortgage Stress Poll

Trying2SaveABuck on 07/11/2023 - 17:24
Last edited 07/11/2023 - 18:26 by 1 other user

So the basket case, house of cards, Ponzi scheme that is the Australian economy that is already in a per-capita recession has just been hit with its 13th interest rate hike - I'm sure this will be in economics text books in a decade or so from now about how over-leveraged borrowers took on way too much debt in a time when the cash rate was effectively zero and got caught in the biggest debt trap anyone who is alive today has ever seen.

HOWEVER - OzBargain is full of savvy individuals, with financially literacy - those of you with home loans I'm sure didn't borrow anywhere near to your max and have a large amount of financial armour to shield them in what is turning into a situation that will be very dire for many Australians.

But I ask the question, are you stressed about your home loan debt repayments/ debt levels?

I'll try to keep 'context' in the polls - let's keep this for PPOR - not investors.

The interest rates are the highest they have been in 12 years, essentially my entire adult life the cash rate has been lower…..I wonder if I'm not the only one….

Update - I'll add an extra layer for those trying to 'buy their own home' as 'somehow' prices are still rising but borrowing power is dropping.

Poll Options

230
Stressed have had a home loan less than 5 years
118
Stressed have had a home loan greater than 5 years
685
Not Stressed
141
I dont have a PPOR loan
58
I want to buy my PPOR this makes it harder

Financial Home Loan Loan

Comments

- - - - gromit on 08/11/2023 - 21:42
        
        +2
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: you are bloody awful with maths and charts. The minimum inflation for 1970 -1990 was 3.5%. The average was around 10% with a peak of just over 15%.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 08/11/2023 - 21:45
        
        @gromit: 'It eventually declined to average only 3.5 percent in the latter half of the 1980s.'
        
        https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/great-inflation
        
        i only go by what i read from sources boss
        
        gromit on 08/11/2023 - 21:47
        
        +5
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Then perhaps read australian instead of US data
        https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/inflatio…
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 08/11/2023 - 21:49
        
        @gromit: fair point
        
        https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/AUS/australia/inflatio…
        
        based on this graph i just found the average was probably around 8-9 percent
        
        however it would appear wage growth largely did keep pace with inflation over the period which was my original point - we currently have 6-7 percent inflation and 2 percent wage growth….on average we are all getting poorer faster than any of the current living generations
        
        gromit on 09/11/2023 - 15:32
        
        +1
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: the graph you just found? :-) anyway no the average is 9-10% or 9.47% if you want to be precise. Now you just have to go and find Australian wage numbers instead of the incorrect US numbers you are comparing it to. We don't have 6-7% inflation, we have around 5% inflation at the moment and if you are going to be fair you need to average that across a number of years which sends that number much lower (but yes current rate is crap). Regardless it means pay growth and inflation wise it is pretty much par for the course.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 09/11/2023 - 15:35
        
        -1
        
        @gromit: The rigged socialist fail to understand is we're going backwards compared to the 70-80s in which we were going forwards - per-capita we were getting richer and now we are getting poorer when stacked against inflation.
        
        This is not something the young generation should 'blame boomers' but they need to start blaming themselves
        
        NoisyMiner on 09/11/2023 - 17:27
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Try getting a generation to accept responsibility of everything happening today. Pollution, plastics, wage stagnation. Poor infrastructure. The list goes on
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 09/11/2023 - 20:59
        
        -1
        
        @NoisyMiner: Not everything - but some accountability and maurity would a good start
        
        The whinging and half baked chasing shadows quick fix solutions generally makes things worse
        
        Also have an idea about the facts instead of making judgements on 'feelings might help
        
        Eeples on 11/11/2023 - 20:16
        
        -1
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Irony.
- Brianqpr on 08/11/2023 - 18:37
  
  houses cost 25k ffs. How many multiples of income was a house back then?
  - thesilverstarman on 08/11/2023 - 18:55
    
    -2
    
    I wish they were! I paid 130k with a wage of 30k, and that was a good wage.
    - brendanm on 08/11/2023 - 19:27
      
      +3
      
      4 and 1/3 years of income. What is it now?
      
      Though I do agree with you about the new car/best area etc comment, house prices compared to wages are far higher now.
      - Trying2SaveABuck on 08/11/2023 - 20:36
        
        @brendanm: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-01/australian-house-and-…
        national mean house price 714k
        
        average weekly earnings for an Australian working full time is $1838, according to the latest statistics from the ABS released in August 2023. - thus 95k pa
        
        714/95 = 7.5years
        
        ill note in the 80s there was no maternity leave and women rarely worked after they got married - things like childcare didnt exist…..
        
        it is far more common to have two working people in a modern Australian house hold however usually one of the workers is part time
        
        if the part time worker earned half of the average salary 95k/2 = 47.5
        
        you add that to the orginal 95 = 142.5
        
        714/142.5 = 5 years
        
        hope that helps
        
        brendanm on 08/11/2023 - 21:34
        
        +1
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Man house price is actually $913k according to the ABS.
        
        Median would be a better number to use for both house price and earnings anyway.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 08/11/2023 - 21:35
        
        @brendanm: your not comparing the median from the past your comparing the mean you cant pick and choose different data you want to compare it has to be like for like otherwise your just trying to fudge the narrative - which is something the media does a lot to trigger the younger generation
        
        i dare say the median house price in the 70s-80s would of been far lower due to land in unestablished areas being next to nothing - compared to now where new blocks for for a boat load in no where areas
        
        brendanm on 08/11/2023 - 21:38
        
        +1
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: I didn't compare anything, you did. You also used the incorrect mean house price, off by $200k, or an increase of about 28%. You are also assuming how many earners there are in a household, and how many dependants they may or may not have.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 08/11/2023 - 21:40
        
        @brendanm:
        
        4 and 1/3 years of income. What is it now
        
        you picked the mean data from the past not the median - i actually dont think the median data exist for that far back it would be interesting if you find it let me know
        
        brendanm on 08/11/2023 - 21:45
        
        +1
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: That isn't the mean, it's a single data point a single poster was using, I replied to it with no other data, just a comment. That single data point is actually a higher ratio than was usual at that time, most sources seem to indicate around the 3 to 3.5 times yearly income was about right. Whereas we are at approximately double that at the moment.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 08/11/2023 - 21:47
        
        @brendanm: i do think the gap for home ownership has gotten wider
        
        i'd argue back in the 70s-80s car ownership, holidays where FAR more expensive compared to wages then it is now but perhaps that is irrelevant
        
        ssfps on 09/11/2023 - 04:05
        
        +2
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck:
        
        it is far more common to have two working people in a modern Australian house hold however usually one of the workers is part time
        
        So essentially we need 2 people to work jobs now, and housing is still less affordable than it was in the 80s with 1 income earner, meaning an individual's purchasing power for housing is between half and a quarter of what it was 40 years ago.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 14:01
        
        @ssfps: Exactly all those people today are actually poorer than in the 80s.
        
        They may have more money on paper, but in the end their life is worse. They are wasting their lives in traffic or trains or whatever. Basically 5d a week the only thing they can do is goto work and come home and repeat the next day. THei mortgate and jobs own them, they are scared of leaving their jobs even if they hate them because of their responsibliities…
    - Brianqpr on 09/11/2023 - 10:40
      
      Percentage of income currently required to pay mortgages is at its highest ever level and higher than that period boomers always bang on about where rates were 15% or whatever. Its tougher now, fact.
      
      While there's some truth about people wanting more these days, isn't the whole point of an economy supposed to be that quality of life improves over time? Or should we be content with outside toilets or mud huts?
      
      Even 50km out in Western Sydney houses are going for $1 million, so the "best area" argument is irrelevant for most people who will just buy what they can afford.
      - Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 10:07
        
        @Brianqpr:
        
        While there's some truth about people wanting more these days, isn't the whole point of an economy supposed to be that quality of life improves over time? Or should we be content with outside toilets or mud huts?
        
        your 'quality of life' is going backwards - the reason is over immigration being used to avoid technically recessions but keep us in a per capita recession.
        
        Australia voted for this
        
        ssfps on 10/11/2023 - 16:44
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck:
        
        Australia voted for this
        
        No we didn't, any party would follow the same core policies. There is a reason all western countries are doing the same thing to their populations - see the Eu and NA - across all governments. The elections for "right or left wing this time?" are basically bread & circus.
        
        Remember that our immigration was still increasing under Howard, despite the public image that he hated immigrants. There were constant "boat people" stories about how much of a hard-ass the liberals were, meanwhile they pulled in a few million immigrants while running those stories.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 17:17
        
        @ssfps: Howard has a soft cap on migration around 70k
        
        it is Ruud/Gillard open removed this and now Albo who keep opening the flood gates even more
        
        funny how since we allowed more and more migration standards of living have dropped considerably…..but the left will never blame over migration they will continue to push for more and more people till we're a 3rd world country
        
        ssfps on 10/11/2023 - 17:38
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/82953f000e11b616…
        
        from https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-20/migration-figures-und…
        
        Can see here that while it dipped at first, he rocketed up immigration mid way through his tenure.
        
        It was also a lot more than 70k immigrants, regardless of what soft caps existed (and were changed through his tenure.)
        
        If you include temporary migrants, its more like >300k p.a by ~2000-2002
        
        it is Ruud/Gillard open removed this and now Albo who keep opening the flood gates even more
        
        I don't doubt it, but the point is this is not a partisan issue, the same thing has happened across the world in all western countries, regardless of the government being "left" or "right". Such a pervasive, ubiquitous policy is obviously not the result of only half the elected leaders of the world.
Brianqpr on 08/11/2023 - 18:36

+3

Still on 1.86% fixed for another 10 months, so not currently affected. A few costs disappearing next year (son finishing high school so no more school fees) plus forthcoming tax cuts (no way Labor will change them as Dutton and the media are waiting to pounce if they do) will largely offset the increased repayments by then.

RBA are making a hash of things though, the latest rise was basically a response to petrol prices (which are not impacted by interest rates), the new iphone release (temporary spike in sales) and the new governor wanting to show she has teeth. Ivory tower dwellers blinded by spreadsheets with a very simplistic and outdated view of things. Taking from one group and giving to another so a lot of the money is still being spent, just by different people.
Windows98 on 08/11/2023 - 18:40

+2

Pointless poll options imo.

"Stressed" could be anything from struggling to make ends meet and have made drastic changes to my life style so that I can survive to changing from Nutella to Coles Choc Hazelnut and I'm not happy about it.
TEER3X on 08/11/2023 - 20:13

+2

One of the key points noted by the RBA was rent inflation.

So to combat this, the RBA raise rates, which encourages investors to raise their rent to cover their mortgage repayments.
- mandelbrot on 08/11/2023 - 21:19
  
  +1
  
  That's not how free markets work
- plmko on 08/11/2023 - 23:20
  
  It's now law you can't raise rent that rapidly.
  - Extreme on 09/11/2023 - 20:21
    
    Not in the majority of states it isn’t.
    
    Most states, there’s actually no limit to how quickly rents can increase. Most states are limited to once or twice a year, but there’s no limitation on how much that increase can be. I’ve heard in some places, rent increases of about 30-40% yoy have been fairly standard for the past couple of years.
Minimum chips on 08/11/2023 - 23:38

+4

Stressed just because it feels like we're getting pushed backwards. Went from making good money and paying off at double the minimum repayment to barely making ends meet. Not all because of the mortgage - 9% pay cut to move to NSW, stamp duty/moving costs, insurance tripled, rego cost doubled, etc. But it's a kick when we're already down.

It definitely takes money out of the economy and puts it in the bank's pocket too. The money now going to pay off mortgage interest used to pay for all sorts of locally owned businesses and personal services. We had to cut back on all that, dog walker, PT, restaurants and more all lost a regular customer.
- Baysew on 09/11/2023 - 12:54
  
  It definitely takes money out of the economy
  
  Interest rate rises, as a tool used by the Reserve Bank to curb inflation, is therefore doing its job.
ssfps on 09/11/2023 - 04:00

-7

As a renter, i'd be interested to see the rates go to 20%.
- gromit on 09/11/2023 - 07:03
  
  +3
  
  So you would be happy losing your job and a massive recession?
- Brianqpr on 09/11/2023 - 10:33
  
  +5
  
  The landlord would pass on the increased costs to you and if you can't afford it they will kick you out. Be careful what you wish for.
  - ssfps on 09/11/2023 - 19:40
    
    I'm willing to play chicken with the landlord - they can't increase it in one hit, so we'll see.
    - Extreme on 09/11/2023 - 19:55
      
      +1
      
      Why can’t they? Most states, there’s actually no limit as to how much a landlord can increase rent. The only limit is it can’t be “excessive”.
      
      The definition of “excessive” takes factors such as market price & costs into account.
      - ssfps on 10/11/2023 - 00:33
        
        -1
        
        @Extreme: I'm still game.
        
        It's just wishful thinking anyway.
    - Cluster on 10/11/2023 - 12:46
      
      The landlord will pass on the interest costs to you, and you will lose your job as the economy crashes.
      
      20% interest rates are a boomer dream that will never happen again.
      - ssfps on 10/11/2023 - 16:54
        
        @Cluster:
        
        20% interest rates are a boomer dream that will never happen again.
        
        You're probably right (as I already said, unlikely), but i'm going to laugh so hard if they do.
  - CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 09:18
    
    +2
    
    You arent looking at the big picture. Sure the short term effects would be bad, but it would balance the inequality of the market for the benfits of the common or average person.
    - ssfps on 10/11/2023 - 13:41
      
      -2
      
      Exactly. All these people talking about it being unethical having high rates are absolute morons and selfish. They have benefited from stealing wealth from hard workers who save money, yet take the high ground as though currency inflation is a virtue.
      - CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 13:47
        
        +1
        
        @ssfps: Of course they are, they think they are winning but they are actually losing in the long run. This stupid rat race where people think they are getting richer is actually stealing them of something far more precious… their time. Time they could be spending with kids or friends or family…instead they are wasting their life thinking they are having a career or getting rich etc.
        
        STeve jobs was a billionaire, and then he got cancer and died. Real smart…truth is he was a (profanity) areshole and idiot.
      - itsme56 on 10/11/2023 - 20:51
        
        @ssfps: You think people entering the market today who have saved for 15 years are stealing. Interesting.
        
        ssfps on 11/11/2023 - 02:23
        
        -2
        
        @itsme56: Do you know how the money market works? Do you realize the act of taking out a loan with a bank creates new money stock, which enters circulation, thus devaluing the currency?
        The bankers made it this way as it increases their wealth, but their system only works because every day people participate (and gain a % of the rewards for doing so).
        
        Those people entering the market today have been getting robbed while saving a deposit, and now they are taking their turn in devaluing the currency, robbing other people with cash savings.
        
        I'm not even saying it's evil to do so, what i'm saying is it's incredibly moronic, hypocritical, and selfish to think that high interest rates are somehow unethical when in participating a system that is essentially a race to the bottom in selling out our fellow citizens and especially our kids.
        
        This sounds crazy to most people, because there is a surreal and pervasive ignorance of what money is and how it's created. This sort of corruption of the system is a large part of what those "occupy wall street" protests were about a decade ago - they weren't just vague complaints about the rich being too rich - many of them were people saying the banking system is fundamentally corrupt and impoverishing us by design.
        
        Is this elaboration interesting to you, too?
NoisyMiner on 09/11/2023 - 08:38

+4

Tbh, I am not stressed, just annoyed. I just wanna buy some bargains but my conscience says save your money and pay the bills.
I don’t know why the boomers keep saying the younger generation has to walk their path of hardship and pain of 17% interest rates. Do they actually wish that on others? I don’t think they want a recession but a regression of new wealth, bcoz the generation after them are “entitled”.

They grew up with no HECS debt, credit ratings non existent , one income to pay all the bills and mortgage. Must be nice.
- gromit on 09/11/2023 - 14:22
  
  +1
  
  I don't think the boomers are saying that, that is usually a response to current millennials and Gen Z that claim the boomers had it easy. You even see it in this discussion where they only talk about house prices or wage growth and completely ignore the insane interest rates and inflation. It is definitely harder to purchase a house in a premium location nowadays, but boomers definitely did not have it easy.
  - NoisyMiner on 09/11/2023 - 15:57
    
    Define easy in this context
JakeyJooJoo on 09/11/2023 - 21:43

+1

Bought both sides of a duplex on 1 title as our ppor right before the COVID price boom. The leased half of the duplex covers more than half our total repayments.

Would be nice to have a bit more space, but not feeling mortgage stress while both working 3 days a week, worth it 100%.
[Deactivated] on 09/11/2023 - 21:49

How can you be offended when no longterm fixed mortgage rates exist?
CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 07:50

People bring it on themselves…

How many people think the new sydney airport is a good idea….the same airport that will bring many things that push prices up, bring more pollution and traffic and so on..

People are being played for fools and they cant see it and activtely encourage the system which creates the environment.
CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 09:17

There should be an inheritance tax, where the governement gets first take at reclaiming the some cost for th epensions and medical care they have gtiven away for free.

The money has too come from somewhere, if pensions dont contribute they are only stealing from future and current generations.
- Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 09:21
  
  It isnt a bad idea any and all money given out in wealth fare to a individual should be claimed as an inheritance tax on their assests
  
  the issue would be this would only hurt poor/poorer people but i would support it - it would certainly reduce the amount of people from ripping off the system - esp those who have 'hidden' there wealth
  
  I like this idea
  - CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 09:26
    
    Let me clarify - im not saying the government should keep a tally im saying they should figure out a number and make everyone contribute back when they can. Just like medicare levy etc, most people pay far more than they get back in medicare services etc.
    - Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 09:29
      
      Let me clarify - im not saying the government should keep a tally im saying they should figure out a number and make everyone contribute back when they can. Just like medicare levy etc, most people pay far more than they get back in medicare services etc.
      
      i personally think they should if the government over ones life gives out 150k and when the person dies they have a 10m dollar house the 150k (plus CPI) should be paid back - if the person doesnt have assets then the debt is written off
      
      The beneficiaries could 'sell' the asset or pay off the debt themselves and keep the asset
      
      id have HECS, all welfare, and stimulus into this - it would mean people who have assets are less likely to rip the system and the money only goes to those who really needs it
      - CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 09:55
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Your maths is broken, if people only pay what was spent on them the government will still be missing significant billions from those that dont or cant pay for their costs.
        
        Im not sure of the numbers but less than half of pensions even have a house, so your system is broken, who is going to pay for the hundreds of billions from the pensions that cant pay for their pension and medical care ?
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 09:57
        
        @CowFrogHorse: the point isnt to recover all cost - the governments job is to serve the people it adds another arm of tax collection that is equitable and creates better accountability in the system
        
        it would certainly help repay some of our welfare bill- Australia spends around 40% of all spending on welfare
        
        CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 10:00
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: How is the government going to serve the peopel if it doesnt have enough money. Grow up the books have to balance otherwise the country will be destroyed.
        
        Pensions cost a lot of money, the pension is actually a small component, the medical side is far larger. Over a lifetime each pension in just medicare care is approaching hundreds of thousands. THe government can tafford to keep money like thatand expecting no repayments.
        
        Australia spends around 40% of all spending on welfare
        
        Exactly to spend money the government needs to get money from somewhere. Being in government is about making tuff decisions - you cant just keep printing money and giving it away because then you end up with nothing.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 10:05
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        Exactly to spend money the government needs to get money from somewhere. Being in government is about making tuff decisions - you cant just keep printing money and giving it away because then you end up with nothing.
        
        last government tried to reduce welfare spending via debit cards for essentials and work for the doll (that works well in Singapore) - socialist dont want welfare reform ALP and Greens oppose any kind of reform that actualy might fix all the wastage
        
        CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 10:11
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: not sure how that addresses my points that there needs to be an significant inheritence tax to help pay for all the goodies.
        
        But i do agree people are stupid, and thats why the big cities are already a failure today because stupid people accept their fate w/out question.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 10:31
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        significant inheritance tax
        
        the issue i have with inheritance taxes is 2 fold
        
        people get double taxed
        
        rich people have set up trusts and shell companies to avoid said taxes so only regular people end up paying the tax
        
        i personally would remove all income tax and have a very high point of sale consumption tax (GST) and a very high tax on corporations
        
        i think we have it the 'wrong way around here' i prefer places like Dubai and Monaco - rewards hard workers and attracts wealthy people/investors but ensure business/profits done in the country are taxed efficiently without loopholes in the country
        
        CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 12:03
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Stop trying to nit pick, nothign in this world is fair or equitable.
        
        Lots of people like you and me, pay shitloads of tax and get significantly less in terms of financial benefits. Shutup and do your duty and contribute because you can.
        
        2) rich people have set up trusts and shell companies to avoid said taxes so only regular people end up paying the tax
        
        with that attitude then nobody should pay tax because others dont. thats childish, because if we followed that line of thinking the gov would have no money, and there would be no schools, or hospitals.
        
        ~
        
        trying: i prefer places like Dubai and Monaco - rewards hard workers and attracts wealthy people/investors but ensure
        
        cow: Really ?
        
        The reason Dubai has a different tax program is because instead of tax, they enslave indians and other poor people as basically nothing more slaves ?
        
        Do you really prize paying no tax built on treating people worse than animals ?
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 12:19
        
        -1
        
        @CowFrogHorse: The retirement age in Dubia is 49
        
        They have some of the highest net incomes in the world
        
        They have a better healthcare system then us as long as you work/worked
        
        Please tell me why a nation should care about citizens that are not their own?
        
        Australia is poor becuz we hand money to everyone whilst we got people living in their cars and sleeping in the streets…
        
        CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 13:44
        
        +2
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: trying: The retirement age in Dubia is 49
        
        They have some of the highest net incomes in the world
        
        They have a better healthcare system then us as long as you work/worked
        
        cow:
        
        Not if you count the poor slaves they capture.
        
        ~
        
        trying: Please tell me why a nation should care about citizens that are not their own?
        
        cow:
        
        Its called human dignity and being a good person.
        
        Just because a person isnt from your country doesnt mean you can treat them like shit.
        
        Wow you havent realised how much evil you have justified with your crap, from pedophiles to death camps and a lot of other horrible things.
        
        I want money but i dont want money that bad that i will cause human misery to people who are unfortunate. You have to be real scum bag to kick a person who is poor down even more just because you can.
        
        ~
        
        trying: Australia is poor becuz we hand money to everyone whilst we got people living in their cars and sleeping in the streets…
        
        cow: Australia is the greatest country on earth far richer than the gulf states. They are rich on human misery and are no different from the nazis who got rich for a while killing, looting and taking everything from anyone they could.
        
        I feel sorry for your lack of humanity, because what comes around goes around.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 15:14
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        I feel sorry for your lack of humanity, because what comes around goes around.
        
        if your cloths are made in Bangladesh, China, India or Pakistani they probably are a subject to slave or child labor…..
        
        unless your 1st nations your living in a country in which its orginal inhabitants were slaughtered like animals
        
        if you watch American content - also a nation that slaughtered the natives 'like animals'
        
        ……if you drive a VW you are supporting Nazi's…..
        
        if you're built a house via James Hardie or any of their supplies your intentionally are supported a company that allowed workers to get cancer for profit ….. killing 1000s of people
        
        i could go on but i find it amazing how people 'pick and choose' there morality esp in a nation built on genocide….
        
        i couldn't live with myself if i thought i had some 'holy-er then thou' mentality
        
        CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 17:51
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: trying: if you drive a VW you are supporting Nazi's…..
        
        cow: how can a person buying a VW be supporting a party that has been gone for over 80 years ?
        
        trying: i could go on but i find it amazing how people 'pick and choose' there morality esp in a nation built on genocide…
        
        cow: Which country is that ? All countries are built on genocide…
        
        The difference is im NOT praising and saying we should copy a country that is EVIL TODAY
        
        CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 17:52
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Trying: if you watch American content - also a nation that slaughtered the natives 'like animals'
        
        Cow: No theres a difference, the americans of today are not responsible for the acts of their ancestors.
        
        Im only responsible for my own actions, i cant be responsible for actions my ancestors of 1000 years ago did.. Thi sis not the middle east or the bible or koran…
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 20:02
        
        @CowFrogHorse: To me you sound like hypocrite if you pick and choose your morality then you have no morality - get off the high horse
        
        ever subscribe to disney plus or watch a Marvel movie - the Disney Princess dress where made via child labor in 3rd world nations - you can control not giving disney your money surely you wont give them another cent……
        
        wonder if you have ever brough cloths from 'GAP' they are straight up evil…like more yank cloths shops
        
        i reckon 90 percent of the items you own i could probably find some dark origins the difference is 'you' dont care or pretend not to care about that - becuz you're a hypocrite
        
        CowFrogHorse on 11/11/2023 - 08:14
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: Theres a big difference between passively supporting terrible industries like with your purchasing of socks, and actively proclaiming its acceptable.
        
        In your reply you are actively championing those actions as they are something you wish to copy. BIG difference. Not sure how you can sleep at night - saying this is acceptable. You wouldnt want some one to do the same to your family if you were poor and yet you want to bring and expand that evil to Australia.
        
        I dont watch American crap as you mentioned because lets be fair its fake and brainwashing. American programs are extremely offensive with their representation of people of different races via stereotyping and worshipping of leadership.
        
        If you were walking down the street with your kids, and saw one of those poor kids working for Nike, what do you say ? Would you honestly tell your kid its good that the kid works for nothing for many many hours and is tired and never had a childhood and you want more kids to be abused that way because they are the "wrong" citizenship ?
        
        Your words arent that different from Hitlers, or any other of the other monsters from history.
        
        Trying2SaveABuck on 11/11/2023 - 08:51
        
        -1
        
        @CowFrogHorse:
        
        If you were walking down the street with your kids, and saw one of those poor kids working for Nike, what do you say ? Would you honestly tell your kid its good that the kid works for nothing for many many hours and is tired and never had a childhood and you want more kids to be abused that way because they are the "wrong" citizenship ?
        
        gotcha typical hypocrite and fairly evil - dead set how do you sleep at night believing such bullshit
        
        it shouldnt MATTER what street the kid is working for slave labor you bell end if you support with your actions ie money then you're part of the problem
        
        you would of been the type of person in the 1800s who said i mind slavery becuz it keeps the cotton prices down - i personally dont own any slaves so im a 'good person'
        
        have a good life but perhaps look in the mirrior you dont sound to far off Hitler or maybe more Stalin to me
        
        CowFrogHorse on 13/11/2023 - 13:16
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: trying: gotcha typical hypocrite and fairly evil - dead set how do you sleep at night believing such bullshit
        
        cow: Hypocrit e?
        
        Dont use big words that you dont understand.
        
        Feel free to QUOTE me where i have been a hypocrite.
        
        The first part of improving or solving a problem is admitting there is a problem.
        
        trying: it shouldnt MATTER what street the kid is working for slave labor you bell end if you support with your actions ie money then you're part of the problem
        
        cow: I know it shouldnt - i never claimed otherwise.
        
        You have straight out said that it doesnt matter because the kids are not Australian, i have argued the counter.
        
        ~
        
        CowFrogHorse on 13/11/2023 - 13:22
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: trying: you would of been the type of person in the 1800s who said i mind slavery becuz it keeps the cotton prices down - i personally dont own any slaves so im a 'good person'
        
        cow:
        
        Like all scumbags you have to lie because i never said anything like what your saying.
        
        Its good too see you have copied yet another example of honesty and honour like your Emiriti friends.
        
        You are a fool.. everybody loses when standards are kept low…. There are countless examples in the history of the world…
        
        Shithole countries today are shitholes because they have no or little standard and outride greed by people like you who worship money above all else.
        
        The UAE is a significantly poorer place than Australia, the problem is you dont know how to measure and count. You fail to appreciate the true value of having a peaceful life with freedom because you are too busy trying too being a smartarse and screw everyone you can. Look at America, its a shithole with violence and drugs because they "saved" money by not helping the poor or unlucky and in the end they actually lost because they pay significantly more multiples for medical care and have gun violence. Secondly im going to guess you live in a big city in AU, and every day you pay for your greed and the similar greed of others, by wasting hours in traffic/commuting and overcrowding.
        
        So thats just the start of how karma has hit you back…
        
        Eeples on 11/11/2023 - 20:25
        
        @Trying2SaveABuck: This is a terrible example.
        
        You have no idea about the way in which Emirati are subsidised by their government.
        
        CowFrogHorse on 13/11/2023 - 13:24
        
        @Eeples: The Gulf states will be nothing in a 100 years just like the African states made tremendous amounts of gold selling their fellow africans to the European traders.
        
        When the oil runs out there will be nothing there…because there is nothing there now.
- ssfps on 10/11/2023 - 17:00
  
  All tax is corrupt, but the fairest IMO would be a simple periodic wealth tax. A proportion of each individual's wealth, could be as simple as (government expenditure / wealth owned by residents) * individual's wealth. It could be made progressive, so wealthier people pay more as a %, but this would already be far, far more equitable than our current taxes. 99% of people would pay far less tax, and the government revenue would be higher than it is currently.
  
  The hardest part is tracking and defining wealth, and of course no government would ever introduce such a scheme as it works against the politicians' self-interest. Defining wealth would likely be a bit of a whack-a-mole game, but even accepting it wouldn't be perfect, i'm fairly sure it would still be far fairer than the current system.
  - CowFrogHorse on 10/11/2023 - 17:54
    
    +1
    
    Taxes are not corrupt - please use the word honestly.
    
    Taxes are the responsibility of people because like it or not when you grow up and get a job its your turn to give back to the country that gave you an education and more.
suchan on 10/11/2023 - 09:59

having just told I need to pack my bags at my workplace, stress is an understatement.
- Trying2SaveABuck on 10/11/2023 - 10:01
  
  +4
  
  Im sorry to hear that mate
  
  Honestly hope you find a new gig soon
Silent-BoB on 10/11/2023 - 10:22

+2

I'm not stressed… yet…

When we got our mortgage six or seven years ago the banks kept asking if wanted to borrow more. They would tell us, "you can get a bigger house, live in a better area."

I told them we were budgeting our repayments based on a 7% interest rate and they all told us we were crazy and interest rates wouldn't get that high. Instead, we bought the smaller house that was further away from the city and borrowed less.

Glad we stuck to our guns as the current rate rises have meant we have remained within our acceptable repayment budget. If we had listened to the banks we would be under mortgage stress now, especially with the cost of everything else going up. Thankfully we didn't, but I know a lot of people would have been tempted to take the larger sum of cash and I don't blame them. I'm just a bit of a scrooge and overly cautious when it comes to debt.
Cluster on 10/11/2023 - 12:44

Unstressed on my mortgage. Still sitting on 1.75%, but that will expire soon. My only regret is not locking in 2.49% for five years.
WeeDeePotato on 10/11/2023 - 14:00

House paid off, but want to sell and get anorher. Not stressed
kevmev12 on 10/11/2023 - 14:20

Not stressed. I bought my unit in the middle of Parramatta NSW for $300k in 2007. Got a little worried as the interest rate went up a few times and we had to put more towards the minimum repayment. But from late 2008 onwards, the rates started to go down; and we decided not to adjust our repayments and just keep it at the same level we were paying when the rates were at its highest.

We stayed with variable mortgage rate over the past 16 years, and I probably should've done a yearly mortgage review and contacted my provider for a rate discount more often, but now we have less than $50k to go and absolutely zero stress from the numerous interest rate rises. The only stress we have now is knowing it will be extremely difficult to get a house at a suburb we like even with the equity that we have - house prices nowadays are getting more and more ridiculous.
lookingforTV on 10/11/2023 - 15:07

-1

For PPOR, I don't think many will be stressed. The alternative is dealing with stress with constant rent hikes for the property you don't even own.
itsme56 on 10/11/2023 - 20:58

The only people who would say publicly that they are not stressed are people who like seeing rates go up. Becuase they think it will get them a free home. Reality check. Prices wont come down and your borrowing power to enter the market is falling, then then rates fall the prices will boom and you'll never be able to get in. Only the mega rich win with long terms with high rates as they are buying in cash when the stressed people are forced to sell.
Commander Shepard on 11/11/2023 - 00:31

About to sell my 1st house/rental property to pay off the current home I live in. It should pay off all my debt. Giving me a paid off house at 30. I will then focus on holidays and maybe look at putting some extra money into shares. Rental properties are a pain in the arse. Even when they are positively geared.

But I am still partly stressed. As I hope its the right decision to sell.
PlanetGreed on 13/11/2023 - 17:31

+1

Property Prices are still rising And borrowing power of average Oz is dropping.

On 13/11 Financial Rv reported: Peter Costello the outgoing Future Fund Chairman, warned of Australia's extremely high immigration levels.
Other reports of Chinese private jets bringing buyers to Victoria. Other reports of people coming to Oz with suitcases of cash to buy real estate.

How long untill Australian's can't afford Australian housing either paying rent or purchase to live in.
2.5 years ago my rent was $365pw now $495pw.
Been trying to buy a home during this time, but can't adjust to, no advertised price and putting your best offer forward.
Last offer of $692k for 30 yr old unrenovated 3 br home was short by $23k, 92 people had inspected the property. It is a gut wrenching feeling.
I fear becoming a statistic.

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