Rental Repairs - How Much Compensation Is Reasonable?

brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 08:39
Last edited 21/09/2023 - 10:58 by 1 other user

Hi everyone, I rent a 2 bed 2 bath apartment with a balcony to myself.

Recently, the balcony had to be totally retiled and re-waterproofed due to leaking issues. This required 16 days of interference to complete those works. The apartment is a typical modern open-plan design - a balcony connected to a lounge room with a kitchen (and then the 2 bedrooms and bathrooms).

My lounge room became unusable and had to shift all my furniture to one end to make room for the tradesman to store the tools and equipment. Not all of those 16 days was work actively happening, but when there was, there was obviously a lot of noise and no privacy during those days (I typically work from home part-time). There was a lot of dust everywhere in the lounge and kitchen during the entire period, presumably from the tiles and the use of their machinery.

Just wondering what a fair amount of compensation from the landlord is for the loss of right to quiet enjoyment and space contracted for?

I pay $500 a week in rent.

Thanks.

UPDATE: for those curious: I ended up putting forward an offer of 50% rent value * 16 days and LL came back with an offer of $500 being 1 week worths of rent (so 50% * 14days) and agreed to that.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • pjetson on 19/09/2023 - 08:46
    +1

    Have you talked to your local tenant's union? Your profile doesn't say where you are, so you'll have to look it up yourself.

    Just wondering what a fair amount of compensation from the landlord is

    What do you think a fair amount of compensation is?

    • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 08:49

      I was thinking 50% feels fair to me.

      • redfox1200 on 19/09/2023 - 11:30
        +9

        the landlord would be happy with your 50% contribution to the works

      • redfox1200 on 19/09/2023 - 11:37
        +11

        but in reality, should have been negotiated before hand, probably requesting alternate accomodation, like a hotel or airbnb during the completion of the works.

      • Seraphin7 on 19/09/2023 - 14:29
        -2

        Yeah, that's not going to happen. I would suggest around $200 all up would be a fair amount (being roughly 20% of your rent for the relevant period), maybe $250 (half a week's rent) if you're feeling bolshie.

        Anything else and you're starting to take the proverbial.

        • trapper on 19/09/2023 - 18:28
          +17

          I would suggest around $200 all up would be a fair amount

          $12.50 a day, wow.

          Would you accept that to have your own lounge turned into a building site?

          • wordplay on 19/09/2023 - 19:56
            +7

            @trapper: I had to pay to have my lounge turned into a building site $80/hr per tradesman.

          • Seraphin7 on 20/09/2023 - 10:23
            -1

            @trapper: The reality of it is that repairs need to be done from time to time. Yes, it's a PITA, but that doesn't change the fact that (1) it needs to happen and (2) that "compensation" is measured against the actual loss.

            I would guesstimate that the lounge room would be about 20% of the floor area of the property and that the lounge room was not entirely unusable during the relevant period.

            FWIW, I had a lounge room in a state of disrepair due to flooding last year for the better part of a year. I'll give you one guess as to how much "compensation" I got from my insurer while they faffed around getting trades organised.

            • trapper on 20/09/2023 - 11:17

              @Seraphin7: Your contract with your insurer is your own business, they're obviously not going to pay for things that aren't covered.

              OP is not renting floor area on a pro-rata basis, they are renting a fully functional apartment.

              If you rented a car, would you be happy to still pay 80% if it didn't have any wheels? It's mostly all there. lol

              • Seraphin7 on 20/09/2023 - 11:46
                -2

                @trapper:

                If you rented a car, would you be happy to still pay 80% if it didn't have any wheels? It's mostly all there. lol

                Ridiculous analogy … and you know it.

                • CommuterPolluter on 20/09/2023 - 12:21
                  +1

                  @Seraphin7: That’s because your calculation was stupid. Floor space is only one factor in the value of an apartment.

                  • Seraphin7 on 21/09/2023 - 13:58
                    -1

                    @CommuterPolluter: We already know what the value of the apartment is … $500/wk. That is not in dispute.

                    Now that we know the totality of it's value, perhaps we can work towards what share of that value has been disturbed by the works?

      • arkie0 on 19/09/2023 - 15:31
        +3

        Based on all your responses so far, clearly you are not open to another view and you're only here to affirm your view

        • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 18:44
          +7

          The landlord had initiated a suggestion of compensation themselves. We have not yet negotiated a fair amount. I came to Ozbargain to seek people's views on what they would deem fair compensation relative to how the use and enjoyment of the property was diminished over the affected period.

      • trapper on 19/09/2023 - 18:33
        +2

        A day or two I would let slide, but 16 days? 50% is barely enough.

  • ThithLord on 19/09/2023 - 08:47
    -3

    $50

    • Euphemistic on 19/09/2023 - 15:52
      +5

      Not cash, just a voucher for the supermarket OP doesn’t normally use.

      • CocaKoala on 20/09/2023 - 09:08
        +2

        Tallulah's soaps and shampoos just outside of Woop Woop. $50 off on purchasing $500 or more.

  • Tech5 on 19/09/2023 - 09:09
    +7

    I would say a rent reduction of unusable space/total space% and the landlord to contract a cleaner after to tidy things up

  • Protractor on 19/09/2023 - 09:20
    +2

    Ask the landlord what they consider would be fair if it was their mothers house, and then triple it.

    • Cheaplikethebird on 19/09/2023 - 09:26
      +6

      I would be pushing for them to fully waive rental fees for the period or provide alternative accommodation.

      • Jimothy Wongingtons on 19/09/2023 - 09:29
        +3

        Yeah either or, as tenant will also most likely need to do cleaning too as dust from work just seems to get everywhere

        • Protractor on 19/09/2023 - 09:43
          +2

          Professional cleaners. Play the silica inhalation risk factor. (It's valid)

  • Stewardo on 19/09/2023 - 09:40
    -1

    $51.99 a week

    • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 09:45
      +19

      Dont quite understand what you are saying? I pay $500 a week for the peaceful enjoyment of the entire home.

        • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 09:55
          +20

          Evidently, you don't understand what a rental contract is - or probably the concept of a trade at all. I contracted to pay $500 in return for the peaceful enjoyment of an entire premises.

          FWIW, not that it makes a difference, I didn't request the repairs. The neighbour below did as the leak affected them.

          • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:05
            -6

            @brooksnk:

            Evidently, you don't understand what a rental contract

            So what does the rental contract say about compensation for when necessary repairs are done?

            • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:16
              +6

              @jv: It doesn't deal with that directly. But I am contracted to receive the peaceful enjoyment of the entire home which I have paid for but not received. As with any other contract in this world - the defaulting party has to pay a form of damages as compensation.

                • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:30
                  +27

                  @jv: You're a goose.

            • trapper on 19/09/2023 - 18:41
              -4

              @jv:

              So what does the rental contract say about compensation for when necessary repairs are done?

              There are provisions for this under law that exist regardless of any rental contract.

              A drawn out 16 day 'repair' to fix a leak is not reasonable by any measure, this is a breach of duty and compensation will be due.

        • AustriaBargain on 19/09/2023 - 15:55
          +13

          Just how old are you JV? Tenants haven't been responsible for the maintenance of houses since the Victorian age.

          • jv on 19/09/2023 - 16:26
            -1

            @AustriaBargain:

            Tenants haven't been responsible for the maintenance of houses since the Victorian age.

            I think you need to re-read what this thread is about.

            The Landlord are meeting their obligations by making the repairs.

          • coffeeinmyveins on 19/09/2023 - 17:04
            +21

            @AustriaBargain: I wouldn't bother engaging with JV. he/they/it are a massive troll and comment the most useless things in an attempt to get their post count up. I can't think of a single comment where they contributed anything to the conversation beyond riling people up.

    • ThithLord on 19/09/2023 - 10:05
      +13

      OP is paying $500 a week, of effing course the LL is morally and legally obligated to fix the dwelling to make it habitable. They don't get any brownie points for ensuring the place is habitable.

      • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:07
        +9

        It is quite unbelievable the logic of some of these people. If someone goes on holiday, and pays for a month for an Airbnb, but 2 weeks of that month they have to do disruptive works and make half the home uninhabitable, would these people be saying the same thing? Obviously not.

        • ThithLord on 19/09/2023 - 10:09
          +2

          JV is a notorious conservative, what did you expect lmao

          • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:10
            +2

            @ThithLord: Conservation is not really one of my priorities…

            • Protractor on 19/09/2023 - 10:26
              +1

              @jv: That's what makes you a black & gold conservative.

            • smartazz104 on 20/09/2023 - 07:58
              +2

              @jv:

              Conservation is not really one of my priorities…

              Same as most "conservatives".

          • AustriaBargain on 19/09/2023 - 15:56
            +6

            @ThithLord: I always imagined JV as a frumpy middle aged woman who wears crocs and wrings out, dries, and reuses paper towels.

        • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:09

          This isn't an Airbnb. So just do what is in your rental contract, as you stated above… Problem solved.

          • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:12
            +2

            @jv: That's what I'm doing. I am contracted to pay $500 and the landlord is contracted to provide quiet enjoyment of the entire premises in habitable condition. How many times do you need this explained to you? Do you have an issue with private people contracting between themselves?

            Would you prefer the government to involve themselves in the negotiations of private parties?

            • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:21
              -1

              @brooksnk:

              contracted to provide quiet enjoyment of the entire premises

              Is that in the contract ?

              • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:26
                +4

                @jv: Yes it is - as is the case for all rentals.

                • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:41
                  -2

                  @brooksnk: 🤣🤣🤣

                • Trance N Dance on 19/09/2023 - 10:54
                  +9

                  @brooksnk: Quiet enjoyment actually means the landlord will not interfere with your possession and use of the premises. As in they won't constantly intrude onto the premises and restrict how and when you will use the premises and its included provisions.

                  What you're thinking of is the right to have reasonable peace, comfort and privacy. When repairs are required on a property some disruption is expected and would fall under reasonable if proper notice is given and isn't for an extended duration of time and/or leading to the premises becoming inhabitable.

                  • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:59
                    -5

                    @Trance N Dance: Right to quiet enjoyment does in fact (in law) mean peace, comfort and privacy.

                    • SlickMick on 20/09/2023 - 07:45
                      +2

                      @brooksnk: no mate. Your landlord isn't responsible to ensure your life is cosy. You've been well counselled. Just take it.

                    • Assburg on 20/09/2023 - 08:52
                      +1

                      @brooksnk: Yeah, in law it doesn't mean that at all. It specifically refers to the landlord not disturbing you.

                      There's also a right of non-derogation…if you rented this place to live in, and the landlord owned an adjacent property and decided to rent it to… I dunno, a garbage incineration company, the landlord would be in breach of that (not the company).

                      Otherwise any sense of peace or comfort you think you have comes from local council bylaws/noise restrictions.

                      The only real sense of privacy you have comes from criminal law, it's illegal to stalk or deliberately film people in an "indecent manner," or if you're surveilled to the point of it being harassment there might be a lawsuit available.

                      Just tally up exactly what you missed out on:

                      A living room for 16 days, a balcony for 16 days, and you probably spent a bit of time facilitating the workers coming in and out, as well as tidying up afterwards. Also include the space you couldn't use because furniture was relocated there. I imagine they used your bathroom as required too.

                      Calculate the area used as a % of total area, say 35 and go 0.35 x 16 x 500/7, guestimate the time you lost facilitating access/tidying up and charge it at $40 an hour.

                      Have a look at portaloo rental costs if they used your bathroom and throw on a random fee which is a very small portion of that too so it looks like you're extending an olive branch.

                      I come in at about $700 of credit towards your rent.

                    • Hangryuman on 20/09/2023 - 15:34

                      @brooksnk: 'Right to quiet enjoyment does in fact (in law) mean peace, comfort and privacy'

                      LOL - nice dream - somehow I don't think peace and comfort are essential [legal word] elements of the contract.

                      as others said - necessary repairs are not presumed to be silent, so you would fail at your claim for peace during such times - guess you agreed to let them in.

                      So - instead of being a right fighter and starting to look like an R.Soul, just pick a figure you'd like and posit it to the friendly landlord with something on top, e.g. typical negotiation - if you'd like $700, ask for $1400 (with reasons - e.g. the noise interrupted and prevented important Zoom meetings while you were WFH), then slowly come back down to meet in the middle (if they're Australian-born, the last negotiation is usually to split the difference, so if you start twice as far away, and end up splitting, you might get exactly what you really wanted.

                      • Trance N Dance on 20/09/2023 - 17:04

                        @Hangryuman: Reasonable peace, comfort and privacy are in one way or another all included in every rental contract by nature of statute. Every state/territory all have peace, comfort and privacy in their tenancy acts in some shape or form, usually under the Quiet Enjoyment section.

                        • Hangryuman on 21/09/2023 - 09:55

                          @Trance N Dance: 'Reasonable peace, comfort and privacy are in one way or another all included in every rental contract by nature of statute'

                          sure - I know that after being a landlord for over 40 years.

                          My point was I don't believe it's an essential term allowing you to sue the landlord or rescind the contract(quit the lease) if you are disturbed on occasion.

    • freefall101 on 19/09/2023 - 10:31
      +9

      https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing/renting/repairs-alte…

      That would be zero, because the landlord is required to fix it.

      Do you actually know anything about renting or are you just shit stirring for fun here?

      • singlemalt72 on 19/09/2023 - 11:16
        +1

        Also, in Victoria (Tenants Victoria)

        Claiming compensation
        You can claim compensation from the rental provider (landlord) if you can show:

        You have suffered loss, damage or significant inconvenience
        It was caused by the rental provider or their agent breaching their duties under the law or in the rental agreement (lease)
        If you think you are entitled to compensation, but the rental provider does not agree, you can apply to the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal (VCAT) for compensation orders.

        It would have been better to negotiate with the landlord/manager prior to works beginning however you would often be told "minimal disruption" while major works are done.

      • coffeeinmyveins on 19/09/2023 - 17:06

        Do you actually know anything about renting or are you just shit stirring for fun here?

        Does no-one know JV? they are a notorious shit poster. I reckon they get off on the negative comments. Best thing this group could do is to just totally ignore every post they make.

  • MS Paint on 19/09/2023 - 09:55
    +15

    500pw/16 days*13.4621

    =$420.69 total compensation

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 19/09/2023 - 10:11

      Nice.
      The math is undeniable

    • BartholemewH on 20/09/2023 - 20:18

      Why do I feel like you worked this out backwards from the total?

  • Mokr on 19/09/2023 - 09:57
    +2

    Could you put up a plastic wall to seal the dust.

    As anoying as it is. A lord repairing your place isn't the worst thing.

    Perhaps ask for more repairs.

  • pharkurnell on 19/09/2023 - 10:02
    +5

    Be happy you have a rental and a landlord that actually fixes shit when it breaks.

    • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:05
      +9

      Some salty people in here. Again, I didn't even request these works - and it is their duty to fix them anyway. Clearly, a lot of people don't understand the basic concept of a contract - which is sad.

      I've been a landlord myself for nearly a decade. So I have sat on both sides.

      • pharkurnell on 19/09/2023 - 10:05
        +1

        Clearly you cant read.

      • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:06
        +2

        Some salty people in here.

        For example, the OP…

        • Bargainitis on 19/09/2023 - 16:43
          +1

          I lolled thanks

        • smartazz104 on 20/09/2023 - 08:00
          +2

          Your sodium levels are up there.

        • Dreamcast on 21/09/2023 - 08:03

          Username checks out.

      • Hangryuman on 20/09/2023 - 15:38

        and if you really understood contracts, you'd know that as often as not people walk away from contacts when they reckon it would cost them more to honor the contract than to avoid it - common examples being builders called to account for faulty buildings, who declare bankruptcy and see ya later.

        (I've been a landlord for over 40 years, and was a tenant for maybe 20 years. So yeah.)

    • ThithLord on 19/09/2023 - 10:06
      +6

      It's a triumph of democracy that this renter is able to post about their woes without being met with bullets - they have that to be thankful for!

      You're a SLoMo fan, aren't you, Pharkurnell?

    • Cheaplikethebird on 19/09/2023 - 10:17
      +1

      Yeah unfortunately having worked in an REA I can safely say that most landlords can't actually afford to be landlords. So yeah you should actually count yourself lucky if you have a landlord who actually does basic maintenance without dragging their feet like a toddler.

      • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:23
        -2

        safely say that most landlords can't actually afford to be landlords.

        That's because Dan keeps increasing the land taxes and is now about to also introduce an Airbnb tax, and provides nothing back in return for this money theft.

        • Cheaplikethebird on 19/09/2023 - 10:27
          +1

          Well my experience was 15 years ago in QLD. Some things are just universal truths.

          • OZKap on 20/09/2023 - 08:53
            +2

            @Cheaplikethebird: 15 years ago in Queensland? Believe it or not, also Dan Andrews fault.

        • Assburg on 20/09/2023 - 09:02

          Hotels and the like are regulated, and those regulations aren't free to come up with or enforce. Finally, there is a national housing crisis affecting people regardless of their political leanings, thanks to scomo corporate welfare bonanza and construction/reno grants which only benefited property owners, which has consequently tanked numerous construction companies who weren't prepared for material prices to go up, among other things

          Do you really think residential properties in a time of scarcity should be commercialised, and used as hotels or is it fine as long as it's not in your neighborhood/building?

          • jv on 20/09/2023 - 09:16
            +1

            @Assburg:

            Do you really think residential properties in a time of scarcity should be commercialised

            That's up to the owners.

      • pharkurnell on 19/09/2023 - 14:51
        +1

        Exactly… how many dozen threads here about 'i cant get landlord to fix this and that' in the last year.

      • Hangryuman on 20/09/2023 - 15:42
        +1

        'having worked in an REA I can safely say that most landlords can't actually afford to be landlords'

        lol - another random WTF - so from your experience, you reckon they can't afford to be landlords, because .. why ?

        if you mean the ethnic owners who only want to collect rent and balk at spending any money on maintenance, then that would suggest you worked with ethnic landlords who have an unrealistic view of being a landlord in Australia.

        from my experience working in inner Melbourne REA, most landlords were fine.

        • Cheaplikethebird on 22/09/2023 - 09:56

          I couldn't count how many times we had to delay maintenance because the owner had no money set aside for it.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 19/09/2023 - 17:07

      Next up, be thankful you have drinking water. Then be thankful you have clothes.

      The landlord is fixing what they are obliged to do, just because there are some that are horrible doesn't mean they are a saint..

  • The Wololo Wombat on 19/09/2023 - 10:07
    -2

    You also now the get benefits of the repairs…. though, I'd raise the question in a politely worded email, if the situation genuinely was an inconvenience to you and see if they'd be willing to offer compensation (and see what the amount they'd like to offer is) - a tone of uncertainty would be best here.

    If I were in your shoes, I'd not be asking for compensation… though 16 days is excessive so maybe a few $100… if a few $100 is worth the risk of offending your landlord. It also runs the risk of dis-incentivising them making further repairs. Once the precedence is set that repairs=a reduction in rent, then they are less likely to make repairs.

    • ThithLord on 19/09/2023 - 10:10
      +6

      You also now the get benefits of the repairs

      The "benefit" of now living in a legally habitable dwelling, which OP is entitled to?

      JFC

      • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:25
        +1

        The "benefit" of now living in a legally habitable dwelling

        It was most likely legally habitable before.

      • Protractor on 19/09/2023 - 10:30
        +1

        And the person living below OP, whom could possible share the same LL.
        The leak impacting below is the driver of this repair. The LL lovers are blind as bats, and ideologically shackled to a rock

        • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:34
          +3

          They are owner-occupiers below. Yes, the leak didn't affect me at all, hence why I had no part to play in this repair coming about.

          jv is just a maniac lol.

      • The Wololo Wombat on 19/09/2023 - 10:47
        +3

        Fair point. It's not like they are improvements.

    • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:10

      The landlord initially suggested they would offer compensation when they notified me they would like to repair the balcony. No estimate was talked about as we decided to wait until the works are complete and then negotiate. So I have come to ozbargain to see what the lovely people in here consider to be a fair amount.

      • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:26
        -3

        they would like to repair the balcony.

        Now you are changing the story.

        Before, you said a neighbor requested it…

        • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:28

          Im not changning the story. The neighbor was complaining to the landlord and the landlord decided to repair the balcony and they notified me of that. I had nothing to do with it.

          • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:44
            -4

            @brooksnk:

            Im not changning the story.

            You did.

            • brooksnk on 19/09/2023 - 10:46

              @jv: No, I literally didn't.

              The balcony was leaking through to the apartment below. The below neighbors had complained to my land lord. The land lord eventually agreed to fix the leak. The fix required retiling/waterproofing of the entire balcony. The landlord notified me that they would like to do this (to appease the owners below).

              • jv on 19/09/2023 - 10:53
                -5

                @brooksnk:

                No, I literally didn't.

                You literally did…

              • singlemalt72 on 19/09/2023 - 11:21
                +6

                @brooksnk: Don't argue with JV - the only loser is you and everyone else that comes here.

      • The Wololo Wombat on 19/09/2023 - 10:49

        I'd say $200-$300 is reasonable. But as I said, I'd word the email very carefully.

  • djsweet on 19/09/2023 - 10:16
    +1

    Its 16 days not 16 weeks. I had a rumpus room which I used as an office and spare bedroom. Got flood damaged 9 months before the end of our lease. The landlord promised to fix it, and blamed all delays on insurance. Didn't decrease rent or offer compensation. Then they didn't renew our lease and we had to move out which cost us a good 3k in moving fees. I'm guessing they were just waiting for us to move out and then going to do a full reno on the place. Anyway - I would have just been happy if they fixed the place. Imho not worth chasing up compo over 16 days of inconvenience at the risk of damaging the relationship with your landlord.

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